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Post by oxvox on May 26, 2017 15:01:56 GMT
Hi all
Just a quick note of thanks to everyone who managed to battle through the grid locked Headington traffic last night to attend the 15th OxVox AGM! We thought it was a great turnout for what proved to be a really good evening, with plenty of lively debate!
Have to say, we are a tad disappointed with the way in which The Oxford Mail have misreported some of the information provided, but hey, ho, that's the way it goes sometimes!
We'll be sending minutes to members by Tuesday night at the latest.
Thanks again for your support. It's very much appreciated by all on your Committee.
Cheers
Jem
COYY's
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Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 15:17:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by myles on May 26, 2017 15:17:59 GMT
If the club were to leave then Mr K certainly has a big short term issue ... The covenant was put in place when the land was transferred by the Council and its prime aim was to secure the site for the football club. If the club voluntarily ups and leaves, FK would have no problem getting it overturned. In fact, I would wager that he would develop the site even before the covenant was formally nullified.
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Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 15:19:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by myles on May 26, 2017 15:19:59 GMT
Not according to the land registry it isn't. The freehold to the land is owned by Firoka. Really? What is the Land Registry Title Number? Sorry, don't have it immediately at hand. If you search on the Land Registry website you can find it easily enough, and only costs about £4 to download.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 15:20:29 GMT
Good, so the Oxford Mail have misreported the information taken from the OxVox AGM. As most of us know we can take what the press say with a pinch of salt.
In that case, can we please afford the same leeway with regards to comments attributed to Daryl Eales also?
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Post by pottersrightboot on May 26, 2017 16:56:41 GMT
Good to meet London Roader at long last.
Well organised meeting, Oxvox members are lucky to have such a thoughtful hardworking committee representing our interests.
The thing I came away with yesterday is the only way that Kassam will loosen his grip on OUFC is if he gets to build on the car park.
If the council can loosen parking restrictions elsewhere and release more land for same - apparently this is possible - then we may be in business.
Oxvox need to keep going with the community ownership plan.
As for new owners I can't see any sane fresh investor laying out £10 million to DE in may 17 when what they are getting is a club playing in an unfinished rapidly depreciating stadium with no control over match day - and other revenues.
I sense a long game here, but we could win AET and penalties .
Keep going Jezza!
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Post by itsoneofthem on May 26, 2017 18:31:14 GMT
The gist I'm getting from the information relayed since the Oxvox AGM, is that rather than relinquishing ownership of the ground, Kassam is now willing to loosen some of his grip on the club from a commercial perspective, as a trade off to remove the overflow car park from use, so he can make even more millions from developing that land into housing. There appears to be some disagreement as to the reported changes to a revised tenancy contract which would come about from such an agreement. Please do tell me if this isn't a fair summary.
I've commented before on here about the absolute need for OUFC to maintain what little powers they have against this man, and not relinquish aspects of the facilities which are of potential worth to him, unless it is in exchange for total ownership of the ground. Doing so in chunks makes the club less and less likely to get to the goal we all want to achieve, of ground ownership, or at least not having him as our landlord, as it makes our bargaining position weaker still.
From the outset of the announcement of talks on community ownership, I have been suspicious about the intentions of Kassam. I do not trust the man as far as I could throw him. He has "taken us on a journey" before, and despite the best intentions of Oxvox, I'm afraid he's now taken them on another journey. We were told that heads of terms would be agreed by the end of the season. Darryl Eales publicly questioned why a simple process should take so long, and it led to fractions between Oxvox and himself. The date was put back to the end of May. Now the whole basis of the deal has changed, which provides Kassam with what he wants, and OUFC with a few crumbs.
I truly hope the Sartori deal actually has some substance, and if so is still alive. If it doesn't happen this summer, or there isn't a complete about turn with the community ownership plan, or Eales doesn't get ownership, then I'm afraid there is only one sensible course of action: Accept that Kassam will never relinquish ownership of the stadium, and put every effort into finding an alternative site, with the aim to find, build and move into a new facility come the end of the current contract.
If we are fortunate enough to secure planning permission for such a site, Kassam will probably enter panic mode at the realisation that his revenue stream will conclude at the end of the contract, and he'll be left with an ugly, half finished, under maintained stadium, which has a covenant on being used as a sport facility. Valuation goes down, and OUFC are left with a choice of building a brand new stadium that they have planning permission for, or doing a Kassam on Kassam by purchasing his ground for a cut price valuation. I for one would be a lot more willing to invest/donate money to the club for community ownership if it wasn't going straight to Kassam in the form of an overbloated valuation on what has got to the worst new ground built in decades.
Maintaining the status quo will result in an even unfairer contract being presented to OUFC as we get closer to the current deal ending. Where else would we be able to go at such short notice? We'd either have to sign it or debunk to Wycombe or the like. The delaying tactics that Kassam has demonstrated this season bring us ever closer to this point.
In the event that a new site could be moved into sooner, I have no doubt that Kassam will demand payment for the remainder of the contract, which is why I say the aim should be to move into a new ground at the point that the contract ends. Unless of course it can be proved that the ridiculous contract signed by Nick Merry was done so in illegal circumstances (I have very strong suspicions he took a bung - or was he really just that stupid?)
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Post by myles on May 26, 2017 18:45:06 GMT
Maintaining the status quo will result in an even unfairer contract being presented to OUFC as we get closer to the current deal ending. Let's debunk this one right here, right now. The worst case scenario if the club gets to the end of the current deal is that it can be renewed on the current terms for another 20 years. Kassam won't have us over a barrel at that point to make the situation worse.
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Post by itsoneofthem on May 26, 2017 19:04:48 GMT
Maintaining the status quo will result in an even unfairer contract being presented to OUFC as we get closer to the current deal ending. Let's debunk this one right here, right now. The worst case scenario if the club gets to the end of the current deal is that it can be renewed on the current terms for another 20 years. Kassam won't have us over a barrel at that point to make the situation worse. Is that in the current contract myles? I've never had the opportunity to read it in full so apologies for my ignorance. Does Kassam have an obligation to upkeep the Priory since it's a listed building? He doesn't seem to worry too much about rules that don't suit him. So even if it is the current contract and he decides to ignore it, what will we do, take him to court? Not a path I'd like to take against someone of his wealth.
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Post by myles on May 26, 2017 19:09:28 GMT
Let's debunk this one right here, right now. The worst case scenario if the club gets to the end of the current deal is that it can be renewed on the current terms for another 20 years. Kassam won't have us over a barrel at that point to make the situation worse. Is that in the current contract myles? I've never had the opportunity to read it in full so apologies for my ignorance. Does Kassam have an obligation to upkeep the Priory since it's a listed building? He doesn't seem to worry too much about rules that don't suit him. So even if it is the current contract and he decides to ignore it, what will we do, take him to court? Not a path I'd like to take against someone of his wealth. Yes it is in the current licence agreement. To be honest, I would be amazed if 8 years from now we end up simply having to renew the licence. One way or another, things will change - it's just a question of how and when.
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Post by socrates on May 26, 2017 19:33:32 GMT
Hi all Just a quick note of thanks to everyone who managed to battle through the grid locked Headington traffic last night to attend the 15th OxVox AGM! We thought it was a great turnout for what proved to be a really good evening, with plenty of lively debate! Have to say, we are a tad disappointed with the way in which The Oxford Mail have misreported some of the information provided, but hey, ho, that's the way it goes sometimes! We'll be sending minutes to members by Tuesday night at the latest. Thanks again for your support. It's very much appreciated by all on your Committee. Cheers Jem COYY's Is it not worth clarifying? What, precisely, have they misreported and what are the correct facts? Thanks
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Post by uptheus on May 27, 2017 6:10:43 GMT
Just a couple of things that I picked up yesterday evening. The stadium as others have said is valued at £12M. The belief is that this is overvalued. Therefore the overflow car park conversation. I believe that Oxvox said that the Council had turned down requests from FK to build on the overflow car park. So this can be used as a bargaining chip to keep FK onside. The reason that FK won't sell the ground is in the main to protect his other businesses. So the key thing is the car park which is used by both the customers of his other businesses as well as the Football club. DE is apparently comfortable with the lease option. At the moment (I think that I heard), the club are even restricted on the hours they can use the office. The current licence is a bit of a joke. So having a lease instead of a licence could allow the club to control the Stadium and not have such large upfront costs. I guess that this would incorporate the Conference Centre. If this were to happen (the terms of the lease is a different matter), then this could work from the club's perspective. The other thing mentioned was that the licence runs out in 8 years and FK s aware of this. The club have an option to renew. The land that the ground is built on is owned by the council. There is a covenant that states that he land must be used for leisure purposes. What I that from that is that it would be very difficult for Fk to ever build on the land. This I would imagine could be changed if the club went elsewhere. The other thing mentioned was that the Council are doing their best to protect OUFC and want a deal which benefits them (overflow car park) FK wants a legacy. So as others have speculated on here, if the ground was to be sold, then he would likely to insist on his name on the ground (!) Oh and Oxvox's view is that is not about the money from FK's perspective. It is more about the legacy. What a legacy that is! He has a legacy alright, but not one most of us would want to be known for.
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Post by uptheus on May 27, 2017 6:22:01 GMT
What are you asking me to look for I have read the previious 5 posts or so and to me Stewart is saying about the business model the costing the potential income the fact that hotels make the money. Stewart is a decent guy whom is offering to broker a deal between Oxvox and FK but as others say I think FK is taking the p*ss. Learnings Zach - we don't disagree about it being bizarre. The point i was addressing is that you find it unacceptable. It is not my fault, or oxox for that mattter, that the current landlord won't do a deal with the current owner and the valuation is more than makes financial sense to lots. To be completely clear Firoz WILL do a deal but not with the owner and has no interest in doing a deal with anyone other than a trust - he doesn't need the money so the deal has to be structured broadly how he wants, as is the right of any seller. So if OUFC cannot do that then what are the other options - NONE. If you find another option to avoid it being bizarre then no one more than me would be grateful! I understand it is an emotional subject but emotion won't get a deal done unfortunately. To be clear - The issue preventing the conclusion of the sale to a trust is working out how the football club will benefit to enough of an extent to make the capital expenditure worthwhile and give the current owner enough upside to feel he has the possibility of pushing the club forward rather than looking at the expense base. Putting it bluntly the conference centre makes a profit apparently of 300k - that will not be enough to reduce losses to a level that is acceptable. The current owner is on record as being able to sustain League One but concerned that the Championship will need an additional investor. I have to look at spending quite a large sum of money and work out if it will benefit the club enough to make it worthwhile around these parameters. The way I see it Darryl has said we would to be near the bottom of the Championship clubs budgets at £11 million - roughly £8 million more than now, which without cup runs creates an unsustainable loss at this stage already. I am not sure but promotion is probably worth £5 million more in League funding so you need gate receipts etc to reach an additional £4 million to be about where Darryl wants to do - that is currently double the current turnover. If you can achieve this you then you get a budget near the bottom of the Championship which is no good and will see us back in League One at some point so the ground needs to bring real value. Buying a ground that makes 300k is so irrelevant unless you can make a case that profits will increase substantially to a few million profit it is just a waste of funds. Now it will cost me 6/8/10/12 million which even if I gift won't do that as that just creates a different landlord enabling 500k profit probably. You then have to cover maintenance and capital expenditure to get the ground fit for purpose - millions more required!! If the club doesn't make the Championship and stays in League One just losing the rent will just reduce Darryl's losses - I may as well just give him the money directly!! So the delay now is me working out whether to help with finance!! Has anyone done a full business plan post sale and has an idea of the numbers and how it will benefit/affect the club? Well if they have I have not seen it. So before I commit to a deal I need to do this work and see whether or not I think spending millions will actually produce the correct result and be of benefit. I have a team of 3 or 4 people working on this so I can get a view by next weekend. Simply committing funds blindly with a view it will make the difference needed and then it not would be heartbreaking for me and very stupid. At the moment I can't see it makes sense but there is more than one way to skin a cat and have a few ideas!! I wish I didn't feel the need to do this or that there was a business plan done that I could just review but as far as I know there isn't so there is work to be done. I will not commit millions to something without understanding exactly what the likely financial picture is going to look like - that is what is currently stopping the deal not Firoz or anything else. If it doesn't make sense then you either don't do the deal or negotiate. As Oxford fans we all know what the club wants and needs but by doing the deal, as offered it needs to be judged if that can be delivered. I agree I should not really need to be involved in this and if you feel the club should be doing this in place of me then the question really is to them isn't it as to why they are not rather than at me. I haven't excluded them. Darryl has said they have offered to buy it before but either that offer didn't match the valuation or Firoz wouldn't sell it to them - that though is one you can simply ask the club if you want the answer. Regarding Eastleigh - yes bad season. in 5 years we have finished 4th,1st,4th, 7th and now a poor one. However if we manage to replicate that in the next 5 years we will be anywhere between League 2 and the Premier League which will do!!! I have gifted them 10 million and they were struggling to survive before I went there. They now have a ground fit for purpose and the largest fanbase of any club in the National Premier League never to have played League football - which isn't bad from 400 fans and a club struggling to pay wages with a fair amount of debt. If it takes another £10 million gift for the next 5 years to get where we want or more I am sure I have the capabilities to do that if I want to. So thanks for your best wishes and I am sure we will come through our sticky patch!! So thats about as comprehensive as I can be without breaking confidentiality. I will leave it to Oxvox to issue a statement about progress at the time they feel appropriate when something is more material etc. r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyellowsforum%2Eco%2Euk%2Fsreply%2F671824&share_tid=25424&share_fid=98885&share_type=t&share_pid=671824Not true, otherwise why would he be talking to Satori? The truth of the matter is, Kassam threw his toys out of the oram because Darryl rightly so didn't pay for services that were not satisfactorily being received in line with the current agreement, and took Kassam to court. What we don't know is, if OxVox hadn't gone down this venture would Kassam have come back to the table with the club or if Darryl was ever interested in buying the stadium at all. Regarding the latter bit, we know Darryl had said it wasn't a priority, so I guess this may not have happened which is why OxVox rightly persued the option to purchase themselves.
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Post by oufcyellows on May 27, 2017 8:31:06 GMT
Learnings Zach - we don't disagree about it being bizarre. The point i was addressing is that you find it unacceptable. It is not my fault, or oxox for that mattter, that the current landlord won't do a deal with the current owner and the valuation is more than makes financial sense to lots. To be completely clear Firoz WILL do a deal but not with the owner and has no interest in doing a deal with anyone other than a trust - he doesn't need the money so the deal has to be structured broadly how he wants, as is the right of any seller. So if OUFC cannot do that then what are the other options - NONE. If you find another option to avoid it being bizarre then no one more than me would be grateful! I understand it is an emotional subject but emotion won't get a deal done unfortunately. To be clear - The issue preventing the conclusion of the sale to a trust is working out how the football club will benefit to enough of an extent to make the capital expenditure worthwhile and give the current owner enough upside to feel he has the possibility of pushing the club forward rather than looking at the expense base. Putting it bluntly the conference centre makes a profit apparently of 300k - that will not be enough to reduce losses to a level that is acceptable. The current owner is on record as being able to sustain League One but concerned that the Championship will need an additional investor. I have to look at spending quite a large sum of money and work out if it will benefit the club enough to make it worthwhile around these parameters. The way I see it Darryl has said we would to be near the bottom of the Championship clubs budgets at £11 million - roughly £8 million more than now, which without cup runs creates an unsustainable loss at this stage already. I am not sure but promotion is probably worth £5 million more in League funding so you need gate receipts etc to reach an additional £4 million to be about where Darryl wants to do - that is currently double the current turnover. If you can achieve this you then you get a budget near the bottom of the Championship which is no good and will see us back in League One at some point so the ground needs to bring real value. Buying a ground that makes 300k is so irrelevant unless you can make a case that profits will increase substantially to a few million profit it is just a waste of funds. Now it will cost me 6/8/10/12 million which even if I gift won't do that as that just creates a different landlord enabling 500k profit probably. You then have to cover maintenance and capital expenditure to get the ground fit for purpose - millions more required!! If the club doesn't make the Championship and stays in League One just losing the rent will just reduce Darryl's losses - I may as well just give him the money directly!! So the delay now is me working out whether to help with finance!! Has anyone done a full business plan post sale and has an idea of the numbers and how it will benefit/affect the club? Well if they have I have not seen it. So before I commit to a deal I need to do this work and see whether or not I think spending millions will actually produce the correct result and be of benefit. I have a team of 3 or 4 people working on this so I can get a view by next weekend. Simply committing funds blindly with a view it will make the difference needed and then it not would be heartbreaking for me and very stupid. At the moment I can't see it makes sense but there is more than one way to skin a cat and have a few ideas!! I wish I didn't feel the need to do this or that there was a business plan done that I could just review but as far as I know there isn't so there is work to be done. I will not commit millions to something without understanding exactly what the likely financial picture is going to look like - that is what is currently stopping the deal not Firoz or anything else. If it doesn't make sense then you either don't do the deal or negotiate. As Oxford fans we all know what the club wants and needs but by doing the deal, as offered it needs to be judged if that can be delivered. I agree I should not really need to be involved in this and if you feel the club should be doing this in place of me then the question really is to them isn't it as to why they are not rather than at me. I haven't excluded them. Darryl has said they have offered to buy it before but either that offer didn't match the valuation or Firoz wouldn't sell it to them - that though is one you can simply ask the club if you want the answer. Regarding Eastleigh - yes bad season. in 5 years we have finished 4th,1st,4th, 7th and now a poor one. However if we manage to replicate that in the next 5 years we will be anywhere between League 2 and the Premier League which will do!!! I have gifted them 10 million and they were struggling to survive before I went there. They now have a ground fit for purpose and the largest fanbase of any club in the National Premier League never to have played League football - which isn't bad from 400 fans and a club struggling to pay wages with a fair amount of debt. If it takes another £10 million gift for the next 5 years to get where we want or more I am sure I have the capabilities to do that if I want to. So thanks for your best wishes and I am sure we will come through our sticky patch!! So thats about as comprehensive as I can be without breaking confidentiality. I will leave it to Oxvox to issue a statement about progress at the time they feel appropriate when something is more material etc. r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyellowsforum%2Eco%2Euk%2Fsreply%2F671824&share_tid=25424&share_fid=98885&share_type=t&share_pid=671824Not true, otherwise why would he be talking to Satori? The truth of the matter is, Kassam threw his toys out of the oram because Darryl rightly so didn't pay for services that were not satisfactorily being received in line with the current agreement, and took Kassam to court. What we don't know is, if OxVox hadn't gone down this venture would Kassam have come back to the table with the club or if Darryl was ever interested in buying the stadium at all. Regarding the latter bit, we know Darryl had said it wasn't a priority, so I guess this may not have happened which is why OxVox rightly persued the option to purchase themselves. How does that prove it's not true? For all we know sartori may be talking to him about changing the lease, or him letting us out of the contract if we move ?
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Oxvox agm
May 27, 2017 8:32:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by Barts on May 27, 2017 8:32:47 GMT
Learnings Zach - we don't disagree about it being bizarre. The point i was addressing is that you find it unacceptable. It is not my fault, or oxox for that mattter, that the current landlord won't do a deal with the current owner and the valuation is more than makes financial sense to lots. To be completely clear Firoz WILL do a deal but not with the owner and has no interest in doing a deal with anyone other than a trust - he doesn't need the money so the deal has to be structured broadly how he wants, as is the right of any seller. So if OUFC cannot do that then what are the other options - NONE. If you find another option to avoid it being bizarre then no one more than me would be grateful! I understand it is an emotional subject but emotion won't get a deal done unfortunately. To be clear - The issue preventing the conclusion of the sale to a trust is working out how the football club will benefit to enough of an extent to make the capital expenditure worthwhile and give the current owner enough upside to feel he has the possibility of pushing the club forward rather than looking at the expense base. Putting it bluntly the conference centre makes a profit apparently of 300k - that will not be enough to reduce losses to a level that is acceptable. The current owner is on record as being able to sustain League One but concerned that the Championship will need an additional investor. I have to look at spending quite a large sum of money and work out if it will benefit the club enough to make it worthwhile around these parameters. The way I see it Darryl has said we would to be near the bottom of the Championship clubs budgets at £11 million - roughly £8 million more than now, which without cup runs creates an unsustainable loss at this stage already. I am not sure but promotion is probably worth £5 million more in League funding so you need gate receipts etc to reach an additional £4 million to be about where Darryl wants to do - that is currently double the current turnover. If you can achieve this you then you get a budget near the bottom of the Championship which is no good and will see us back in League One at some point so the ground needs to bring real value. Buying a ground that makes 300k is so irrelevant unless you can make a case that profits will increase substantially to a few million profit it is just a waste of funds. Now it will cost me 6/8/10/12 million which even if I gift won't do that as that just creates a different landlord enabling 500k profit probably. You then have to cover maintenance and capital expenditure to get the ground fit for purpose - millions more required!! If the club doesn't make the Championship and stays in League One just losing the rent will just reduce Darryl's losses - I may as well just give him the money directly!! So the delay now is me working out whether to help with finance!! Has anyone done a full business plan post sale and has an idea of the numbers and how it will benefit/affect the club? Well if they have I have not seen it. So before I commit to a deal I need to do this work and see whether or not I think spending millions will actually produce the correct result and be of benefit. I have a team of 3 or 4 people working on this so I can get a view by next weekend. Simply committing funds blindly with a view it will make the difference needed and then it not would be heartbreaking for me and very stupid. At the moment I can't see it makes sense but there is more than one way to skin a cat and have a few ideas!! I wish I didn't feel the need to do this or that there was a business plan done that I could just review but as far as I know there isn't so there is work to be done. I will not commit millions to something without understanding exactly what the likely financial picture is going to look like - that is what is currently stopping the deal not Firoz or anything else. If it doesn't make sense then you either don't do the deal or negotiate. As Oxford fans we all know what the club wants and needs but by doing the deal, as offered it needs to be judged if that can be delivered. I agree I should not really need to be involved in this and if you feel the club should be doing this in place of me then the question really is to them isn't it as to why they are not rather than at me. I haven't excluded them. Darryl has said they have offered to buy it before but either that offer didn't match the valuation or Firoz wouldn't sell it to them - that though is one you can simply ask the club if you want the answer. Regarding Eastleigh - yes bad season. in 5 years we have finished 4th,1st,4th, 7th and now a poor one. However if we manage to replicate that in the next 5 years we will be anywhere between League 2 and the Premier League which will do!!! I have gifted them 10 million and they were struggling to survive before I went there. They now have a ground fit for purpose and the largest fanbase of any club in the National Premier League never to have played League football - which isn't bad from 400 fans and a club struggling to pay wages with a fair amount of debt. If it takes another £10 million gift for the next 5 years to get where we want or more I am sure I have the capabilities to do that if I want to. So thanks for your best wishes and I am sure we will come through our sticky patch!! So thats about as comprehensive as I can be without breaking confidentiality. I will leave it to Oxvox to issue a statement about progress at the time they feel appropriate when something is more material etc. r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyellowsforum%2Eco%2Euk%2Fsreply%2F671824&share_tid=25424&share_fid=98885&share_type=t&share_pid=671824Not true, otherwise why would he be talking to Satori? The truth of the matter is, Kassam threw his toys out of the oram because Darryl rightly so didn't pay for services that were not satisfactorily being received in line with the current agreement, and took Kassam to court. What we don't know is, if OxVox hadn't gone down this venture would Kassam have come back to the table with the club or if Darryl was ever interested in buying the stadium at all. Regarding the latter bit, we know Darryl had said it wasn't a priority, so I guess this may not have happened which is why OxVox rightly persued the option to purchase themselves.
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Oxvox agm
May 27, 2017 8:45:52 GMT
via mobile
Post by Barts on May 27, 2017 8:45:52 GMT
Not true, otherwise why would he be talking to Satori? The truth of the matter is, Kassam threw his toys out of the oram because Darryl rightly so didn't pay for services that were not satisfactorily being received in line with the current agreement, and took Kassam to court. What we don't know is, if OxVox hadn't gone down this venture would Kassam have come back to the table with the club or if Darryl was ever interested in buying the stadium at all. Regarding the latter bit, we know Darryl had said it wasn't a priority, so I guess this may not have happened which is why OxVox rightly persued the option to purchase themselves. I don't think Kassam threw his toys out of the pram, he probably smirked and thought "yeah right" when de made an offer on the ground. I think it's simple. DE took FK to court about service charges. DE wants to buy Kassam stadium from FK FK knows DE will be more successful if he get the KS. FK thinks, f##k that.
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Post by londonroader on May 27, 2017 9:11:41 GMT
I don't think Kassam threw his toys out of the pram, he probably smirked and thought "yeah right" when de made an offer on the ground. I think it's simple. DE took FK to court about service charges. DE wants to buy Kassam stadium from FK FK knows DE will be more successful if he get the KS. FK thinks, f##k that. I can't dispute anything you have said but; It been well documented now that buying the stadium is not the golden goose, it will take a lot of money to buy then you have to service it, so buying the stadium in the documented financial position of DE doesn't seem plausible. Even if DE did buy the ground with all it's costs, would the money he could borrow against that asset outweigh his financial outlay?
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Oxvox agm
May 27, 2017 11:58:29 GMT
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Post by Barts on May 27, 2017 11:58:29 GMT
I don't think Kassam threw his toys out of the pram, he probably smirked and thought "yeah right" when de made an offer on the ground. I think it's simple. DE took FK to court about service charges. DE wants to buy Kassam stadium from FK FK knows DE will be more successful if he get the KS. FK thinks, f##k that. I can't dispute anything you have said but; It been well documented now that buying the stadium is not the golden goose, it will take a lot of money to buy then you have to service it, so buying the stadium in the documented financial position of DE doesn't seem plausible. Even if DE did buy the ground with all it's costs, would the money he could borrow against that asset outweigh his financial outlay? Back at you, I can't disagree with anything you said and financially for de in the short term it wouldn't make sense and can he afford to wait and benefit in the long term without it affecting the club infrastructure financially? Probably not. I believe looking at the state of the ground de was 100% right taking fk to court, but if I was in fk's position there's no way in a million years I would then sell de the ground. I believe (without having any facts) de has a plan b. And I think the director who came on board who is VERY high up in the university may have something to do with it. I think they will try and get some university land somewhere and build a new ground. I've no idea where or when, but that for me is the only way de will own a football ground. Obviously unless JS flys in and completes a deal too buy the lot!!
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Post by neville60 on May 27, 2017 12:33:08 GMT
Kassam owns the stadium and the land. Nobody buys the stadium, Kassam doesn't do any repairs, or build a 4th stand,the stadium deteriorates further in the next 8 years, which leaves a stadium not worth purchasing. The stadium is found not fit for purpose or unsafe for use, Kassam sells the stadium area to ? ( a subsidiary? ). They build a, lets just say, a lawn bowls area, that covers the leisure part ( sale of alcohol !).
Now, let's build some flats, houses, or anything I like.
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Oxvox agm
May 27, 2017 12:38:55 GMT
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Post by londonroader on May 27, 2017 12:38:55 GMT
I can't dispute anything you have said but; It been well documented now that buying the stadium is not the golden goose, it will take a lot of money to buy then you have to service it, so buying the stadium in the documented financial position of DE doesn't seem plausible. Even if DE did buy the ground with all it's costs, would the money he could borrow against that asset outweigh his financial outlay? Back at you, I can't disagree with anything you said and financially for de in the short term it wouldn't make sense and can he afford to wait and benefit in the long term without it affecting the club infrastructure financially? Probably not. I believe looking at the state of the ground de was 100% right taking fk to court, but if I was in fk's position there's no way in a million years I would then sell de the ground. I believe (without having any facts) de has a plan b. And I think the director who came on board who is VERY high up in the university may have something to do with it. I think they will try and get some university land somewhere and build a new ground. I've no idea where or when, but that for me is the only way de will own a football ground. Obviously unless JS flys in and completes a deal too buy the lot!! Ok so if DE seemingly cant afford to buy the stadium, how can he afford to fund a new ground build, I can't see him getting land cheaply either.
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Post by oufcyellows on May 27, 2017 12:50:24 GMT
Back at you, I can't disagree with anything you said and financially for de in the short term it wouldn't make sense and can he afford to wait and benefit in the long term without it affecting the club infrastructure financially? Probably not. I believe looking at the state of the ground de was 100% right taking fk to court, but if I was in fk's position there's no way in a million years I would then sell de the ground. I believe (without having any facts) de has a plan b. And I think the director who came on board who is VERY high up in the university may have something to do with it. I think they will try and get some university land somewhere and build a new ground. I've no idea where or when, but that for me is the only way de will own a football ground. Obviously unless JS flys in and completes a deal too buy the lot!! Ok so if DE seemingly cant afford to buy the stadium, how can he afford to fund a new ground build, I can't see him getting land cheaply either. Exactly . The Amex cost has run to over £100m. U will get some grants, sponsorship and such but the cost will be way higher than buying the Kassam. Like u say millions just to buy the land, then I was told around £10-12m maybe more just for the surrounding roads and infrastructure, that's before u even start on the cost of the build. And more than likely why il and de have not really ever considered taking the option of WE seriously
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Oxvox agm
May 27, 2017 12:58:52 GMT
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Post by Barts on May 27, 2017 12:58:52 GMT
Ok so if DE seemingly cant afford to buy the stadium, how can he afford to fund a new ground build, I can't see him getting land cheaply either. Exactly . The Amex cost has run to over £100m. U will get some grants, sponsorship and such but the cost will be way higher than buying the Kassam. Like u say millions just to buy the land, then I was told around £10-12m maybe more just for the surrounding roads and infrastructure, that's before u even start on the cost of the build. And more than likely why il and de have not really ever considered taking the option of WE seriously And you think the kassam is only 13m? Double that to bring it up to standard, they spoke about putting in a second exit road to link up with knights rd, that'll be another 5m, so your talking £30m for a stadium that's been standing for 20 years with an owner very reluctant to sell.
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Post by oufcyellows on May 27, 2017 13:13:53 GMT
Exactly . The Amex cost has run to over £100m. U will get some grants, sponsorship and such but the cost will be way higher than buying the Kassam. Like u say millions just to buy the land, then I was told around £10-12m maybe more just for the surrounding roads and infrastructure, that's before u even start on the cost of the build. And more than likely why il and de have not really ever considered taking the option of WE seriously And you think the kassam is only 13m? Double that to bring it up to standard, they spoke about putting in a second exit road to link up with knights rd, that'll be another 5m, so your talking £30m for a stadium that's been standing for 20 years with an owner very reluctant to sell. Possibly so mate, but still at least half the cost of WE. Unless the council decided to build the super sports arena that he spoke about (never going to happen) just saying what he thinks people want to hear, then it's only going to be possible if we get our own version of roman abramovich who is funding the £500m cost of Chelsea's new ground. Then it becomes more of a reality. Say our very own mr rich came along, and money isn't an object, would he want a 20 year old stadium or would he "meet" with the current owner to discuss alternatives and deals that could see us stay in the mean time before moving to benefit both parties. We all know who the biggest supporter of a WE move is on here, coincidence he is also the person closet to the potential new owner ?
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Post by manorlounger on May 27, 2017 13:23:00 GMT
If we are fortunate enough to secure planning permission for such a site, Kassam will probably enter panic mode at the realisation that his revenue stream will conclude at the end of the contract, and he'll be left with an ugly, half finished, under maintained stadium, which has a covenant on being used as a sport facility. Valuation goes down, and OUFC are left with a choice of building a brand new stadium that they have planning permission for, or doing a Kassam on Kassam by purchasing his ground for a cut price valuation. I for one would be a lot more willing to invest/donate money to the club for community ownership if it wasn't going straight to Kassam in the form of an overbloated valuation on what has got to the worst new ground built in decades. It seems I will have to repeat this ad infinitum, there is no covenant on the Kassam Stadium. Thames Water relinquished the covenants they had which never once referred to anything being used as a sports faciity. Their covenant was to prevent development. If OUFC walk away from the stadium then FK can do whatever he likes with the site. He will still be bound by normal planning etc but if he wants to bulldoze the lot and start again, that is his prerogative. But, be very clear on this, that plot of land is worth a lot of money. A valuation of £12 million to purchase is not extreme. What has got to happen is for FK to get the deal that he wants, that OCC are happy to pass planning for and still allows all the other business on site to continue making enough to pay their respective lease agreements. FK may not be to everyone's taste but he is a very astute businessman who has used his undoubted acumen in manipulating deals to accrue a sizeable fortune.
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Post by bazzer9461 on May 27, 2017 14:05:35 GMT
If we are fortunate enough to secure planning permission for such a site, Kassam will probably enter panic mode at the realisation that his revenue stream will conclude at the end of the contract, and he'll be left with an ugly, half finished, under maintained stadium, which has a covenant on being used as a sport facility. Valuation goes down, and OUFC are left with a choice of building a brand new stadium that they have planning permission for, or doing a Kassam on Kassam by purchasing his ground for a cut price valuation. I for one would be a lot more willing to invest/donate money to the club for community ownership if it wasn't going straight to Kassam in the form of an overbloated valuation on what has got to the worst new ground built in decades. It seems I will have to repeat this ad infinitum, there is no covenant on the Kassam Stadium. Thames Water relinquished the covenants they had which never once referred to anything being used as a sports faciity. Their covenant was to prevent development. If OUFC walk away from the stadium then FK can do whatever he likes with the site. He will still be bound by normal planning etc but if he wants to bulldoze the lot and start again, that is his prerogative. But, be very clear on this, that plot of land is worth a lot of money. A valuation of £12 million to purchase is not extreme. What has got to happen is for FK to get the deal that he wants, that OCC are happy to pass planning for and still allows all the other business on site to continue making enough to pay their respective lease agreements. FK may not be to everyone's taste but he is a very astute businessman who has used his undoubted acumen in manipulating deals to accrue a sizeable fortune. With all due respect manor I seem to remember something along those lines when it was completed, it may have changed since but I'm sure I heard something along those lines as itsoneofthem is claiming.
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Post by behindthegoal on May 27, 2017 14:08:15 GMT
Kassam owns the stadium and the land. Nobody buys the stadium, Kassam doesn't do any repairs, or build a 4th stand,the stadium deteriorates further in the next 8 years, which leaves a stadium not worth purchasing. The stadium is found not fit for purpose or unsafe for use, Kassam sells the stadium area to ? ( a subsidiary? ). They build a, lets just say, a lawn bowls area, that covers the leisure part ( sale of alcohol !). Now, let's build some flats, houses, or anything I like. Owns the land??? I was told the stad is on council owned land.
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Post by londonroader on May 27, 2017 14:36:06 GMT
Exactly . The Amex cost has run to over £100m. U will get some grants, sponsorship and such but the cost will be way higher than buying the Kassam. Like u say millions just to buy the land, then I was told around £10-12m maybe more just for the surrounding roads and infrastructure, that's before u even start on the cost of the build. And more than likely why il and de have not really ever considered taking the option of WE seriously And you think the kassam is only 13m? Double that to bring it up to standard, they spoke about putting in a second exit road to link up with knights rd, that'll be another 5m, so your talking £30m for a stadium that's been standing for 20 years with an owner very reluctant to sell. At the Oxvox AGM it was said that FK is willing to let the stadium go to a trust at a reduced rate from £12m. I'm not sure where you get the double money from to get the stadium up to scratch, I know it will cost but £13m by your reckoning, then you chuck in a £5m figure for a new road not factored in before all highly extravagant figures. Now I'm no financial genius but the figure you quoted that was needed was £30m I would hazard a guess of approx half of that, but all this might be irrelevant anyway as there are more factors involved now with possible new owners on the horizon.
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Post by Colin B on May 27, 2017 14:41:06 GMT
Exactly . The Amex cost has run to over £100m. U will get some grants, sponsorship and such but the cost will be way higher than buying the Kassam. Like u say millions just to buy the land, then I was told around £10-12m maybe more just for the surrounding roads and infrastructure, that's before u even start on the cost of the build. And more than likely why il and de have not really ever considered taking the option of WE seriously And you think the kassam is only 13m? Double that to bring it up to standard, they spoke about putting in a second exit road to link up with knights rd, that'll be another 5m, so your talking £30m for a stadium that's been standing for 20 years with an owner very reluctant to sell. It wouldn't cost anywhere near that.
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Oxvox agm
May 27, 2017 16:03:27 GMT
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Post by rickyotto on May 27, 2017 16:03:27 GMT
It's a complete tangent but imagine being the guy that thousands of people hate just for a few extra million in a fortune running into hundreds of millions.
I think I'd cut my losses.
His daughter used to work for Deloitte in the same building as me and I remember wondering if she ever transferred to my department how it might impact her career prospects working for me 😜
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Post by lambchop on May 27, 2017 16:23:01 GMT
It's a complete tangent but imagine being the guy that thousands of people hate just for a few extra million in a fortune running into hundreds of millions. I think I'd cut my losses. His daughter used to work for Deloitte in the same building as me and I remember wondering if she ever transferred to my department how it might impact her career prospects working for me 😜 Agent Otto, your mission if you choose to except it, is to woo this daughter of Satan (allegedly), Marry her and bring down the evil empire from within. Your aim is to be in control of the stadium and all revenue streams by the start of next season.... this message will self district in 5 seconds
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Post by Headington Yellow on May 27, 2017 16:59:59 GMT
J
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