|
Post by mcf86 on May 26, 2017 11:10:31 GMT
Just a couple of things that I picked up yesterday evening. The stadium as others have said is valued at £12M. The belief is that this is overvalued. Therefore the overflow car park conversation. I believe that Oxvox said that the Council had turned down requests from FK to build on the overflow car park. So this can be used as a bargaining chip to keep FK onside. The reason that FK won't sell the ground is in the main to protect his other businesses. So the key thing is the car park which is used by both the customers of his other businesses as well as the Football club. DE is apparently comfortable with the lease option. At the moment (I think that I heard), the club are even restricted on the hours they can use the office. The current licence is a bit of a joke. So having a lease instead of a licence could allow the club to control the Stadium and not have such large upfront costs. I guess that this would incorporate the Conference Centre. If this were to happen (the terms of the lease is a different matter), then this could work from the club's perspective. The other thing mentioned was that the licence runs out in 8 years and FK s aware of this. The club have an option to renew. The land that the ground is built on is owned by the council. There is a covenant that states that he land must be used for leisure purposes. What I that from that is that it would be very difficult for Fk to ever build on the land. This I would imagine could be changed if the club went elsewhere. The other thing mentioned was that the Council are doing their best to protect OUFC and want a deal which benefits them (overflow car park) FK wants a legacy. So as others have speculated on here, if the ground was to be sold, then he would likely to insist on his name on the ground (!) Oh and Oxvox's view is that is not about the money from FK's perspective. It is more about the legacy. His name, as in one of the many he has earned ? The OGB Arena perhaps?
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 11:10:40 GMT
Actually I have no idea where the OM got the idea that the license fee would increase. It was not mentioned at the AGM unless I was napping with my eyes open at that point. My understanding was that any renegotiation of license would be much more favourable to the club. I stand to be corrected. As for dashing off and sticking two fingers up at FK, as nice as it sounds, firstly we are tied in for another eight years so we'd have to negotiate with him whatever happened. If that were the case he wouldn't have an empty stadium, he'd have a nice development plot I suspect. Also new grounds take a little time and money. Balls and swagger are great, but unless you have the local and county council in your pocket, a shit load of money and the world's fastest stadium builders, we are years away from that. I'm not saying I wouldn't welcome it, it's just a bit glib to say we should 'man up and walk away' without an option in place. WE looks great but it's just not ready and waiting for the builders to move in i'm afraid. Th rent would go up if we were promoted. Not if in this renegotiable deal someone. Sensible who wears socks, does what's best for the club rather than themselves
|
|
|
Post by arthurturner on May 26, 2017 11:18:16 GMT
If you could be bothered to join OxVox and had attended the meeting last night you might not have made such an ill considered attack. In fact, a renegotiated lease on terms that would allow OUFC to fully operate the stadium would in many ways be a better option than owning it. Ownership isn't everything. Sometimes having the full use of something is better than owning it. In addition, if FK doesn't wish to sell this may be a way forward that satisfies everyone. What I learned last night was that Jem Faulkner and his Committee have and continue to put in an enormous amount of time and effort in trying to seek solutions for the benefit of our club and if you can't find anything constructive to say about the many complex issues that the Club is faced with then I suggest you say nothing at all. I will keep saying what I feel for as long s I feel things need addressing. PS its a forum. Your choice, of course. You just make yourself look a tit every time you do.
|
|
|
Post by Kairdiff Exile on May 26, 2017 11:18:59 GMT
Yes That'll work. Thinking clearly not your strong point. Not sure there was any need for the ad hominem. I accept it's a significant step, but he's clearly not responding to diplomacy - so we need to make it in his business interests to divest himself of the ground.
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 11:21:57 GMT
Yes That'll work. Thinking clearly not your strong point. Not sure there was any need for the ad hominem. I accept it's a significant step, but he's clearly not responding to diplomacy - so we need to make it in his business interests to divest himself of the ground. There are £12m ways of divesting himself from the ground, just have to find someone happy to do so
|
|
|
Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 11:28:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by rickyotto on May 26, 2017 11:28:49 GMT
I'll be interested to hear Charlie's view on this.
|
|
|
Post by Kairdiff Exile on May 26, 2017 11:28:51 GMT
Not sure there was any need for the ad hominem. I accept it's a significant step, but he's clearly not responding to diplomacy - so we need to make it in his business interests to divest himself of the ground. There are £12m ways of divesting himself from the ground, just have to find someone happy to do so My point though is that literally everyone except Ka$$am agrees that £12m is an inflated and unrealistic asking price. We need him to be in the position where the sensible business option is to cut and run at a price which matches the true market value.
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 11:43:49 GMT
There are £12m ways of divesting himself from the ground, just have to find someone happy to do so My point though is that literally everyone except Ka$$am agrees that £12m is an inflated and unrealistic asking price. We need him to be in the position where the sensible business option is to cut and run at a price which matches the true market value. That is the point though isn't it, it's an inflated asking price for a stadium, but not for the land it sits on. Which is why he won't deal at a level we see as market value as he has no need to. We have 4 choices Stay as we are. (Kassam gets rent) Agree new rental agreement. (Kassam gets rent, but we can earn more and don't have to find £12m) Buy ground (Kassam gets £12m) Move to new ground. (Kassam get development site worth way more than £12, and we end up having to fund a new stadium cost way more than £12m servicing a loan that will be well above what we currently pay in rent. As Darryl has just said himself, he hopes oxvox can do a deal with Kassam as he sees it as the best option. Then of course there is option 5. Mr sartori buys club, and funds the £12m needed to put the stadium into community ownership
|
|
|
Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 11:45:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by bazzer9461 on May 26, 2017 11:45:10 GMT
Th rent would go up if we were promoted. Not if in this renegotiable deal someone. Sensible who wears socks, does what's best for the club rather than themselves But would Kassam renegotiate the rent to a lower and more sustainable to OUFC and if he did what's to say he won't add a clause which would kick in when he feels the time is right.
|
|
|
Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 11:46:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by bazzer9461 on May 26, 2017 11:46:00 GMT
I will keep saying what I feel for as long s I feel things need addressing. PS its a forum. Your choice, of course. You just make yourself look a tit every time you do. You obviously don't like what possibly is happening maybe you're blind to this
|
|
|
Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 11:46:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by bazzer9461 on May 26, 2017 11:46:41 GMT
Not sure there was any need for the ad hominem. I accept it's a significant step, but he's clearly not responding to diplomacy - so we need to make it in his business interests to divest himself of the ground. There are £12m ways of divesting himself from the ground, just have to find someone happy to do so Thought there were people ready for this
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 11:51:06 GMT
Not if in this renegotiable deal someone. Sensible who wears socks, does what's best for the club rather than themselves But would Kassam renegotiate the rent to a lower and more sustainable to OUFC and if he did what's to say he won't add a clause which would kick in when he feels the time is right. Who knows, even if it stayed the same or went up slightly, it would be more sustainable to oufc as just the income from the conference centre £300k pa would reduce what were actually paying in real terms. Then there is all the other events, advertising and f&b sales. The ability to increase capacity when needed . What does fk get out of that, he keeps the legacy he seems to like, he has a tenant on a 25/30 year contract instead of 8. He has customers using his other business attracted by a successful oufc/ conference centre, with out the out staffing or operating costs
|
|
|
Post by finlandia on May 26, 2017 11:52:54 GMT
My point though is that literally everyone except Ka$$am agrees that £12m is an inflated and unrealistic asking price. We need him to be in the position where the sensible business option is to cut and run at a price which matches the true market value. That is the point though isn't it, it's an inflated asking price for a stadium, but not for the land it sits on. Which is why he won't deal at a level we see as market value as he has no need to. We have 4 choices Stay as we are. (Kassam gets rent) Agree new rental agreement. (Kassam gets rent, but we can earn more and don't have to find £12m) Buy ground (Kassam gets £12m) Move to new ground. (Kassam get development site worth way more than £12, and we end up having to fund a new stadium cost way more than £12m servicing a loan that will be well above what we currently pay in rent. As Darryl has just said himself, he hopes oxvox can do a deal with Kassam as he sees it as the best option. Then of course there is option 5. Mr sartori buys club, and funds the £12m needed to put the stadium into community ownership If it's option five, I would be amazed if JS puts the ground into community ownership. Why would he?
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 11:54:32 GMT
There are £12m ways of divesting himself from the ground, just have to find someone happy to do so Thought there were people ready for this And having read his post, and the release that oxvox that a renegotiation of lease is more likely, u don't think u could possible put 1&1 together and think that maybe sd has decided the figures just don't work for him.
|
|
|
Post by londonroader on May 26, 2017 11:55:38 GMT
My point though is that literally everyone except Ka$$am agrees that £12m is an inflated and unrealistic asking price. We need him to be in the position where the sensible business option is to cut and run at a price which matches the true market value. That is the point though isn't it, it's an inflated asking price for a stadium, but not for the land it sits on. Which is why he won't deal at a level we see as market value as he has no need to. We have 4 choices Stay as we are. (Kassam gets rent) Agree new rental agreement. (Kassam gets rent, but we can earn more and don't have to find £12m) Buy ground (Kassam gets £12m) Move to new ground. (Kassam get development site worth way more than £12, and we end up having to fund a new stadium cost way more than £12m servicing a loan that will be well above what we currently pay in rent. As Darryl has just said himself, he hopes oxvox can do a deal with Kassam as he sees it as the best option. Then of course there is option 5. Mr sartori buys club, and funds the £12m needed to put the stadium into community ownership The ground the stadium sits on is owned by the council. It was suggested at the meeting a reduced figure has been agree with FK if a community trust purchased the lease for the ground(stadium)
|
|
|
Post by Kairdiff Exile on May 26, 2017 11:56:43 GMT
We have 4 choices Stay as we are. (Kassam gets rent) Agree new rental agreement. (Kassam gets rent, but we can earn more and don't have to find £12m) Buy ground (Kassam gets £12m) Move to new ground. (Kassam get development site worth way more than £12, and we end up having to fund a new stadium cost way more than £12m servicing a loan that will be well above what we currently pay in rent. You're right that those are the choices AS THINGS STAND. My point was that direct action might help to create an additional scenario in which we buy the ground but not for the unrealistic £12m price tag. I'd say there's merit in examining/exploring that option.
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 11:57:48 GMT
That is the point though isn't it, it's an inflated asking price for a stadium, but not for the land it sits on. Which is why he won't deal at a level we see as market value as he has no need to. We have 4 choices Stay as we are. (Kassam gets rent) Agree new rental agreement. (Kassam gets rent, but we can earn more and don't have to find £12m) Buy ground (Kassam gets £12m) Move to new ground. (Kassam get development site worth way more than £12, and we end up having to fund a new stadium cost way more than £12m servicing a loan that will be well above what we currently pay in rent. As Darryl has just said himself, he hopes oxvox can do a deal with Kassam as he sees it as the best option. Then of course there is option 5. Mr sartori buys club, and funds the £12m needed to put the stadium into community ownership If it's option five, I would be amazed if JS puts the ground into community ownership. Why would he? Why did Darryl say when he first came that he would like to get the stadium into a trust so it couldn't be split from the club ? If his aim is to stay there then why not, club has full control then. Unless he's going to be an asset stripping devil as well of course
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 11:59:35 GMT
We have 4 choices Stay as we are. (Kassam gets rent) Agree new rental agreement. (Kassam gets rent, but we can earn more and don't have to find £12m) Buy ground (Kassam gets £12m) Move to new ground. (Kassam get development site worth way more than £12, and we end up having to fund a new stadium cost way more than £12m servicing a loan that will be well above what we currently pay in rent. You're right that those are the choices AS THINGS STAND. My point was that direct action might help to create an additional scenario in which we buy the ground but not for the unrealistic £12m price tag. I'd say there's merit in examining/exploring that option. But isn't the oxvox deal to buy the ground at a much reduced rate than the £12m ? Without applying any direct pressure, but instead agreeing with the council a deal on the car park
|
|
|
Post by Colin B on May 26, 2017 12:00:49 GMT
We (OxVox) will attempt to get our minutes out ASAP, so that people can discuss the FACTS rather than the Oxford Mail's inaccurate and incomplete report. I shall refrain from commenting on the ill-informed b*llshit from certain people who were either not there last night or are not even members, on this thread. Please bare in mind it is a Bank Holiday weekend though and we do have jobs and lives outside of OxVox.
Thanks for those of you that did make the time to attend, I hope you can now see how much work has gone into this and how much progress HAS been made.
|
|
|
Post by myles on May 26, 2017 12:01:50 GMT
My point though is that literally everyone except Ka$$am agrees that £12m is an inflated and unrealistic asking price. We need him to be in the position where the sensible business option is to cut and run at a price which matches the true market value. That is the point though isn't it, it's an inflated asking price for a stadium, but not for the land it sits on. Which is why he won't deal at a level we see as market value as he has no need to. Not just that, but also that it's more than just a bricks & mortar/land asset. It's a business which turns a 1/2 million pound profit every year, even without the potential revenues being maximised.
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 12:03:50 GMT
That is the point though isn't it, it's an inflated asking price for a stadium, but not for the land it sits on. Which is why he won't deal at a level we see as market value as he has no need to. We have 4 choices Stay as we are. (Kassam gets rent) Agree new rental agreement. (Kassam gets rent, but we can earn more and don't have to find £12m) Buy ground (Kassam gets £12m) Move to new ground. (Kassam get development site worth way more than £12, and we end up having to fund a new stadium cost way more than £12m servicing a loan that will be well above what we currently pay in rent. As Darryl has just said himself, he hopes oxvox can do a deal with Kassam as he sees it as the best option. Then of course there is option 5. Mr sartori buys club, and funds the £12m needed to put the stadium into community ownership The ground the stadium sits on is owned by the council. It was suggested at the meeting a reduced figure has been agree with FK if a community trust purchased the lease for the ground(stadium) Interesting, do we know what terms are in Kassams current lease or the length ?
|
|
|
Post by Kairdiff Exile on May 26, 2017 12:04:04 GMT
But isn't the oxvox deal to buy the ground at a much reduced rate than the £12m ? Without applying any direct pressure, but instead agreeing with the council a deal on the car park Yes - and my original post was saying that it doesn't appear as though this approach is paying any dividends, hence the need for other options to be explored. I'm conscious of Colin's post above though, so might not add anything further until OxVox have released their own statement - I'm going on what I read in the Fail, which sounds like it may be inaccurate.
|
|
|
Post by myles on May 26, 2017 12:04:42 GMT
The ground the stadium sits on is owned by the council. Not according to the land registry it isn't. The freehold to the land is owned by Firoka.
|
|
|
Post by finlandia on May 26, 2017 12:05:30 GMT
If it's option five, I would be amazed if JS puts the ground into community ownership. Why would he? Why did Darryl say when he first came that he would like to get the stadium into a trust so it couldn't be split from the club ? If his aim is to stay there then why not, club has full control then. Unless he's going to be an asset stripping devil as well of course You can't compare the two - JS has access to pretty much endless funds. If he did come in, it would be his show, we take it or leave it as fans. He doesn't need to asset strip - we are small fry for him and his father-in-law. If you believe that a multi-millionaire would be putting his major asset in the hands of a community group, you are living on another planet.
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 12:06:46 GMT
But isn't the oxvox deal to buy the ground at a much reduced rate than the £12m ? Without applying any direct pressure, but instead agreeing with the council a deal on the car park Yes - and my original post was saying that it doesn't appear as though this approach is paying any dividends, hence the need for other options to be explored. I'm conscious of Colin's post above though, so might not add anything further until OxVox have released their own statement - I'm going on what I read in the Fail, which sounds like it may be inaccurate. Quite. Was disappointed I couldn't make it at late notice. But have seen 3 people who were there now say that an increase in lease wasn't mentioned as it's reported in the mail.
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 12:08:19 GMT
Why did Darryl say when he first came that he would like to get the stadium into a trust so it couldn't be split from the club ? If his aim is to stay there then why not, club has full control then. Unless he's going to be an asset stripping devil as well of course You can't compare the two - JS has access to pretty much endless funds. If he did come in, it would be his show, we take it or leave it as fans. He doesn't need to asset strip - we are small fry for him and his father-in-law. If you believe that a multi-millionaire would be putting his major asset in the hands of a community group, you are living on another planet. So u can't compare the 2 ? Darryl who doesn't have many millions says he would be happy to put the stadium into trust, but someone potentially worth billions wouldn't . Also is it not exactly what Stewart was contemplating with his £12m. Or is he living on another planet as well ?
|
|
|
Post by finlandia on May 26, 2017 12:08:31 GMT
We (OxVox) will attempt to get our minutes out ASAP, so that people can discuss the FACTS rather than the Oxford Mail's inaccurate and incomplete report. I shall refrain from commenting on the ill-informed b*llshit from certain people who were either not there last night or are not even members, on this thread. Please bare in mind it is a Bank Holiday weekend though and we do have jobs and lives outside of OxVox. Thanks for those of you that did make the time to attend, I hope you can now see how much work has gone into this and how much progress HAS been made. Typical post - first of all, any fan has the right to an opinion, OxVox members or not. If they are commenting on the OM article, all they can do is comment on a story they have seen, If it's inaccurate, that's the mails fault, not the posters.
|
|
|
Post by finlandia on May 26, 2017 12:10:15 GMT
You can't compare the two - JS has access to pretty much endless funds. If he did come in, it would be his show, we take it or leave it as fans. He doesn't need to asset strip - we are small fry for him and his father-in-law. If you believe that a multi-millionaire would be putting his major asset in the hands of a community group, you are living on another planet. So u can't compare the 2 ? Darryl who doesn't have many millions says he would be happy to put the stadium into trust, but someone potentially worth billions wouldn't . Also is it not exactly what Stewart was contemplating with his £12m. Or is he living on another planet as well ? Not in my mind no you can't.
|
|
|
Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 12:12:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by bazzer9461 on May 26, 2017 12:12:15 GMT
But would Kassam renegotiate the rent to a lower and more sustainable to OUFC and if he did what's to say he won't add a clause which would kick in when he feels the time is right. Who knows, even if it stayed the same or went up slightly, it would be more sustainable to oufc as just the income from the conference centre £300k pa would reduce what were actually paying in real terms. Then there is all the other events, advertising and f&b sales. The ability to increase capacity when needed . What does fk get out of that, he keeps the legacy he seems to like, he has a tenant on a 25/30 year contract instead of 8. He has customers using his other business attracted by a successful oufc/ conference centre, with out the out staffing or operating costs I think definitely missed something so Oxvox are trying negotiate that revenue from the conferences and your meat pies and beer will go to the club?
|
|
|
Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 12:15:06 GMT
Who knows, even if it stayed the same or went up slightly, it would be more sustainable to oufc as just the income from the conference centre £300k pa would reduce what were actually paying in real terms. Then there is all the other events, advertising and f&b sales. The ability to increase capacity when needed . What does fk get out of that, he keeps the legacy he seems to like, he has a tenant on a 25/30 year contract instead of 8. He has customers using his other business attracted by a successful oufc/ conference centre, with out the out staffing or operating costs I think definitely missed something so Oxvox are trying negotiate that revenue from the conferences and your meat pies and beer will go to the club? There we go, the new lease will see oufc take full control of all revenue streams
|
|