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Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 12:15:15 GMT
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Post by bazzer9461 on May 26, 2017 12:15:15 GMT
Thought there were people ready for this And having read his post, and the release that oxvox that a renegotiation of lease is more likely, u don't think u could possible put 1&1 together and think that maybe sd has decided the figures just don't work for him. Yes I thought that so we are in Kuntsam's grasp for the next few years. If something positive doesn't come from these meetings can you honestly see De being here in the future
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Post by MJB on May 26, 2017 12:19:22 GMT
One positive of Kassam no longer being involved in the club in any capacity will be that we no longer have to read the various dreadful puns involving his name.
Schoolboy-style graffiti at its worst!
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Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 12:31:36 GMT
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Post by bazzer9461 on May 26, 2017 12:31:36 GMT
I think definitely missed something so Oxvox are trying negotiate that revenue from the conferences and your meat pies and beer will go to the club? There we go, the new lease will see oufc take full control of all revenue streams Well you have good optimism if you think Kassam will let the club take over a very good source of revenue, but if that is the case I will wholeheartedly apologise to Oxvox and others
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Post by Gary Baldi on May 26, 2017 12:50:22 GMT
One positive of Kassam no longer being involved in the club in any capacity will be that we no longer have to read the various dreadful puns involving his name. Schoolboy-style graffiti at its worst! I'm sure Fizza won't mind. He's the custardodian of the club. In all seriousness, under the lease they signed, Firoka were obligated to repair and maintain the Priory and until the last home game, they have erected a fence around it but still left it to rot - a listed building as well! If OCC are unwilling to enforce that lease, I can't see how the tax payers in Oxford will get a fair deal if Community ownership goes ahead. The good thing is that at least this is now out in the open - it's no surprise FK has been coy about negotiations. I respect OxVox for doing their damnedest to get the stadium out of Kassam's hands, but as of today, I don't see it's worth the effort. Over priced, under maintained and a long list of conditions. No thanks.
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Post by foley on May 26, 2017 12:51:31 GMT
And having read his post, and the release that oxvox that a renegotiation of lease is more likely, u don't think u could possible put 1&1 together and think that maybe sd has decided the figures just don't work for him. Yes I thought that so we are in Kuntsam's grasp for the next few years. If something positive doesn't come from these meetings can you honestly see De being here in the future How childish ... With regard to DE being here, far more of an issue in my view is that unless he ground issues are resolved (ie) a far better deal than the club has at the moment, how could it make sense for any potential owner to be here? At the moment the model is that we sell at least one player a season for significant money. We have also been 'lucky' enough to have had some excellent cup runs. If we had a couple of poor seasons with no player marketable what happens then?
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Post by foley on May 26, 2017 12:54:26 GMT
One positive of Kassam no longer being involved in the club in any capacity will be that we no longer have to read the various dreadful puns involving his name. Schoolboy-style graffiti at its worst! I'm sure Fizza won't mind. He's the custardodian of the club. In all seriousness, under the lease they signed, Firoka were obligated to repair and maintain the Priory and until the last home game, they have erected a fence around it but still left it to rot - a listed building as well! If OCC are unwilling to enforce that lease, I can't see how the tax payers in Oxford will get a fair deal if Community ownership goes ahead. The good thing is that at least this is now out in the open - it's no surprise FK has been coy about negotiations. I respect OxVox for doing their damnedest to get the stadium out of Kassam's hands, but as of today, I don't see it's worth the effort. Over priced, under maintained and a long list of conditions. No thanks. Really? I think that it is definitely worth the effort to try and resolve the ground issue. If it isn't resolved I wonder where the club will be in 10 years time (and I would start looking far lower down the pyramid)
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Post by Colin B on May 26, 2017 12:56:04 GMT
We (OxVox) will attempt to get our minutes out ASAP, so that people can discuss the FACTS rather than the Oxford Mail's inaccurate and incomplete report. I shall refrain from commenting on the ill-informed b*llshit from certain people who were either not there last night or are not even members, on this thread. Please bare in mind it is a Bank Holiday weekend though and we do have jobs and lives outside of OxVox. Thanks for those of you that did make the time to attend, I hope you can now see how much work has gone into this and how much progress HAS been made. Typical post - first of all, any fan has the right to an opinion, OxVox members or not. If they are commenting on the OM article, all they can do is comment on a story they have seen, If it's inaccurate, that's the mails fault, not the posters. But I don't have the right to reply to them, as my reply is a "typical post" whatever that means? By your rules people have the right to an opinion based on no facts and to criticise people based on these lack of facts, after it has been pointed out to them by people who do have the facts/did attend the meeting that they are wrong? I wasn't going to reply at all but this sort of thing really makes us wonder why we bother at all. I'll leave it there as OxVox have been very professional throughout and I do not want to undermine that by arguing with people on the internet who have already made their minds up without having the facts.
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Post by finlandia on May 26, 2017 13:01:48 GMT
The problem is the people on here were using facts. They didn't know the Mail report was inaccurate - yes, by all means respond. All it would have taken would have been a very quick. 'OxVox will get a report out asap. However we would like to acknowledge that today's report in the Oxford Mail contains a number of inaccuracies from last nights AGM. We will have a full report out in the next 48 hours.'
A very reasoned calm response rather than a knee-jerk emotional one.
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Post by Gary Baldi on May 26, 2017 13:03:53 GMT
I'm sure Fizza won't mind. He's the custardodian of the club. In all seriousness, under the lease they signed, Firoka were obligated to repair and maintain the Priory and until the last home game, they have erected a fence around it but still left it to rot - a listed building as well! If OCC are unwilling to enforce that lease, I can't see how the tax payers in Oxford will get a fair deal if Community ownership goes ahead. The good thing is that at least this is now out in the open - it's no surprise FK has been coy about negotiations. I respect OxVox for doing their damnedest to get the stadium out of Kassam's hands, but as of today, I don't see it's worth the effort. Over priced, under maintained and a long list of conditions. No thanks. Really? I think that it is definitely worth the effort to try and resolve the ground issue. If it isn't resolved I wonder where the club will be in 10 years time (and I would start looking far lower down the pyramid) FK will win out again and I don't think it's in the interests of the tax payer for that to happen.
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Post by Junior on May 26, 2017 13:03:59 GMT
It's been touched on during this thread about the the stadium and the Priory and condition they are in.
Why hasn't more pressure been out on FK about this? Why should he be allowed to get away with not fulfilling his obligations as a landlord?
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Post by socrates on May 26, 2017 13:21:45 GMT
I'm sure Fizza won't mind. He's the custardodian of the club. In all seriousness, under the lease they signed, Firoka were obligated to repair and maintain the Priory and until the last home game, they have erected a fence around it but still left it to rot - a listed building as well! If OCC are unwilling to enforce that lease, I can't see how the tax payers in Oxford will get a fair deal if Community ownership goes ahead. The good thing is that at least this is now out in the open - it's no surprise FK has been coy about negotiations. I respect OxVox for doing their damnedest to get the stadium out of Kassam's hands, but as of today, I don't see it's worth the effort. Over priced, under maintained and a long list of conditions. No thanks. Really? I think that it is definitely worth the effort to try and resolve the ground issue. If it isn't resolved I wonder where the club will be in 10 years time (and I would start looking far lower down the pyramid) He's not far wrong. The stadium is barely fit for the purpose of a modern-day football stadium. And if this deal goes ahead it will be even less so. Where will people park???!!! It is, ironically, the Manor Ground for the 21st century. It will be the millstone around our neck which stops us progressing.
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Post by upthecowboys on May 26, 2017 13:28:04 GMT
It's been touched on during this thread about the the stadium and the Priory and condition they are in. Why hasn't more pressure been out on FK about this? Why should he be allowed to get away with not fulfilling his obligations as a landlord? Good questions Junior. I assume re the lack of maintenance on the ground etc your comment is directed at the club. They are the ones who FK has the agreement with. As for the Priory, that is one for the council - it appears there has been a lack of challenging from the council on that which I think is disgraceful. Again not really an Oxvox issue. As for Colin B's 'feisty' replies, who can blame him. A load of volunteers expending their own time to resolve what is a very complex issue that previous and current owners have not been able to sort! Although I am disappointed with what seems to have been suggested re FK getting overflow building permission but only for a lease on better terms? However we do need to see some fuller details on that before passing any meaningful comment.
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Post by sihath on May 26, 2017 13:42:43 GMT
I see the numbers of membership are at 900.. Is that pleasing or slightly disappointing given the positivity around Oxvox the last few months? Anybody also know how many people attended last night? In the top 15 supporters trust in terms of membership numbers. And many of those above us are free membership, so I'd say that was pretty good. Have you joined yet?
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Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 13:43:06 GMT
It's been touched on during this thread about the the stadium and the Priory and condition they are in. Why hasn't more pressure been out on FK about this? Why should he be allowed to get away with not fulfilling his obligations as a landlord? Good questions Junior. I assume re the lack of maintenance on the ground etc your comment is directed at the club. They are the ones who FK has the agreement with. As for the Priory, that is one for the council - it appears there has been a lack of challenging from the council on that which I think is disgraceful. Again not really an Oxvox issue. As for Colin B's 'feisty' replies, who can blame him. A load of volunteers expending their own time to resolve what is a very complex issue that previous and current owners have not been able to sort! Although I am disappointed with what seems to have been suggested re FK getting overflow building permission but only for a lease on better terms? However we do need to see some fuller details on that before passing any meaningful comment. I may have Miss read it , but I think people are mixing two options together. Option 1/ community ownership club pays smaller amount than asking price in exchange for fk getting permission to build on car park. Option 2/ renegotiate lease on more favourable terms for the club, fk gets a longer tenant which could mean paying the same or a bit more , but club get full revenue incomes, and freedom to operate as they like. I've not seen that the renewal of lease will still include a deal on the parking, I read it as two different options, with option 2 now lookin more likely
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Post by lambchop on May 26, 2017 13:57:57 GMT
Please someone tell me we are not going to sign away our future to FK again..... why would he want to renegotiate terms of a lease on the goose that's laying the golden eggs unless he stands to gain diamond encrusted eggs?
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Post by headingtonutd on May 26, 2017 14:00:00 GMT
Actually I have no idea where the OM got the idea that the license fee would increase. It was not mentioned at the AGM unless I was napping with my eyes open at that point. My understanding was that any renegotiation of license would be much more favourable to the club. I stand to be corrected. As for dashing off and sticking two fingers up at FK, as nice as it sounds, firstly we are tied in for another eight years so we'd have to negotiate with him whatever happened. If that were the case he wouldn't have an empty stadium, he'd have a nice development plot I suspect. Also new grounds take a little time and money. Balls and swagger are great, but unless you have the local and county council in your pocket, a shit load of money and the world's fastest stadium builders, we are years away from that. I'm not saying I wouldn't welcome it, it's just a bit glib to say we should 'man up and walk away' without an option in place. WE looks great but it's just not ready and waiting for the builders to move in i'm afraid. You do me a disservice. I'm quite aware that a new ground is not ready to move into. And quite aware it will take years. But had Water Eaton been actioned three years ago, the wait would not seem so interminable would it? The council, club and fans have a choice. Go down a difficult route now, stand together and work together rather than hoping that Kassam will be nothing less than a hard-nosed businessman or be consigned to mediocrity for ever more. Having a good season every seven or eight years, flitting between the bottom two divisions. All groups will choose the latter. Because, as your posts perfectly illustrates, we're just too apathetic. This county is far too well-off and comfortable for anything else. Actually you do me a disservice. It's not apathy to suggest working on the achievable. You say 'had WE been actioned' like all you needed to do was press a button and away we go. It takes tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds often just to get to planning and then the real fun starts. Who was going to front all that? My understanding is that Charlie went with his admirable work on Water Eaton to DE but he didn't think it the viable option. OxVox also did a viability study and concluded the Kassam was the more likely option. Do I like the Water Eaton option? Yes I do. I think it would be an amazing home for the club and I also happen to think that if we do get the Kassam back in community hands it would not be off the table, which is an even more inviting prospect. What I was saying was that your plan of flicking off Kassam and jumping to WE isn't viable the way you described it. That's not apathy, it's a valid opinion which you never really countered.
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Post by oufcyellows on May 26, 2017 14:00:06 GMT
Please someone tell me we are not going to sign away our future to FK again..... why would he want to renegotiate terms of a lease on the goose that's laying the golden eggs unless he stands to gain diamond encrusted eggs? Because a 25/30 year golden goose is more valuable than an 8 year one. Especially when he keeps the freehold for potential future value ?
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Post by lambchop on May 26, 2017 14:05:13 GMT
Please someone tell me we are not going to sign away our future to FK again..... why would he want to renegotiate terms of a lease on the goose that's laying the golden eggs unless he stands to gain diamond encrusted eggs? Because a 25/30 year golden goose is more valuable than an 8 year one. Especially when he keeps the freehold for potential future value ? The old ones have all the right moves in my experience ;-)
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Post by headingtonutd on May 26, 2017 14:07:25 GMT
Actually I have no idea where the OM got the idea that the license fee would increase. It was not mentioned at the AGM unless I was napping with my eyes open at that point. My understanding was that any renegotiation of license would be much more favourable to the club. I stand to be corrected. As for dashing off and sticking two fingers up at FK, as nice as it sounds, firstly we are tied in for another eight years so we'd have to negotiate with him whatever happened. If that were the case he wouldn't have an empty stadium, he'd have a nice development plot I suspect. Also new grounds take a little time and money. Balls and swagger are great, but unless you have the local and county council in your pocket, a shit load of money and the world's fastest stadium builders, we are years away from that. I'm not saying I wouldn't welcome it, it's just a bit glib to say we should 'man up and walk away' without an option in place. WE looks great but it's just not ready and waiting for the builders to move in i'm afraid. Th rent would go up if we were promoted. But that's not what they said unless I read it wrong. Their suggestion was that the rent (licence fee) would have to be increased to allow us use of income or rights to develop the stadium in any way. From my understanding of the AGM (and I am happy to be corrected), it was suggested that the deal would be considerably better for the club. The OM suggestion is that benefits would be offset by the raise in rent.
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Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 14:14:09 GMT
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Post by bazzer9461 on May 26, 2017 14:14:09 GMT
Yes I thought that so we are in Kuntsam's grasp for the next few years. If something positive doesn't come from these meetings can you honestly see De being here in the future How childish ... With regard to DE being here, far more of an issue in my view is that unless he ground issues are resolved (ie) a far better deal than the club has at the moment, how could it make sense for any potential owner to be here? At the moment the model is that we sell at least one player a season for significant money. We have also been 'lucky' enough to have had some excellent cup runs. If we had a couple of poor seasons with no player marketable what happens then? Childish oh do grow up young foley, yes a couple of seasons of good cup runs have helped but unless a very good renegotiated deal where the club has all the revenue attained at the club, I cabt see how we would be better of. If Kassam says on revenue all good and conference money plus a yearly rent of 100k with no hidden articles in the deal then I for one would be happy
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Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 14:15:46 GMT
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Post by bazzer9461 on May 26, 2017 14:15:46 GMT
Th rent would go up if we were promoted. But that's not what they said unless I read it wrong. Their suggestion was that the rent (licence fee) would have to be increased to allow us use of income or rights to develop the stadium in any way. From my understanding of the AGM (and I am happy to be corrected), it was suggested that the deal would be considerably better for the club. The OM suggestion is that benefits would be offset by the raise in rent. Thought that's what Nick Merry agreed unless IL or DE have renegotiated that part of the lease then I was reliably informed that was in The agreement
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Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 14:21:34 GMT
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Post by lambchop on May 26, 2017 14:21:34 GMT
Out of interest what would happen if we reached the end of our lease with no renegotiation? Would we be able to leave? Would FK be able to redevelop? Would there have to be sports played at the ground? Would there have to be a football team play at the ground?
In short who would gain the most (if maybe we had a new ground to go to) in 8 years time (I assume we only have 8 years left)
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Post by headingtonutd on May 26, 2017 14:24:14 GMT
Bazzer were you at the meeting last night? Did you contribute anything? ask any questions of the committee? Did you even reply to the message from OxVox about the AGM on here to offer some suggestions? I'm going to stick my neck out and say no although i'd be happy to be proved wrong. The way you rant at OxVox suggests you have some master plan that has been derailed by their involvement in negotiations? If that's the case we'd love to hear it. If not I have some questions for you; - What makes you think that if Sartori doesn't buy the ground that any deal is dead in the water? Nobody has actually said that. - If Kassam does keep the stadium and we have reduced rent or similar but full revenue use and are able to develop the ground would that still be enough to send you into a muttering rage? - What is your issue with OxVox? You would clearly rather they had done nothing. Why? - What would you like to happen? Just so you know I have no affiliation with OxVox beyond being a member and being at the meeting last night. I have nothing against Oxvox and the work Jem and co do for the club it's Kassam, I honestly do not believe he will deal positively with Oxvox, with Stewart on board does help but the announcement just under a year ago was Oxvox were talking to Kassam to help facilitate a buy out. This will only happen I believe and I'm not alone when Kassam has screwed us over. I hope Sartori can be successful in buying out Kassam but I believe that will be the club as well. DE says he doesn't want to sell and why should he, but then would Sartori want to buy the stadium. DE needs a financial backer if we were o progress with trying for promotion yes the championship and as SD has pointed out we would be at the lower end of the budget unless we can fill the ground, that is easier said than done, However with a new stadium owner a bit more positivity may come back and out home attendances can increase to a limit where we could be reasonably sustainable in the championship and then work from there. But I still think Kassam is stringing Oxvox along no matter how much you lay into me about it it's something I feel.PS no I'm not a member of Oxvox and yes I do know what they stand for and the good they do and try to do for OUFC, Not laying into you for feeling Kassam might be only worried about himself Bazzer, we pretty much all think that, and i'm pretty sure OxVox take that into consideration every time they talk with him. My point is you start firing into OxVox as if they are wasting time and letting people down. By DE's own and honest admission they are the only ones who have been able to negotiate properly with FK and are probably the last option (short of an ownership change and big bucks I guess). Just because we don't like what Kassam has done in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't at least TRY to get a deal done. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. Someone had to try something. I applaud them for that, you don't have to. The very least they deserve is not to vilified on here surely ??
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Post by bazzer9461 on May 26, 2017 14:33:12 GMT
I have nothing against Oxvox and the work Jem and co do for the club it's Kassam, I honestly do not believe he will deal positively with Oxvox, with Stewart on board does help but the announcement just under a year ago was Oxvox were talking to Kassam to help facilitate a buy out. This will only happen I believe and I'm not alone when Kassam has screwed us over. I hope Sartori can be successful in buying out Kassam but I believe that will be the club as well. DE says he doesn't want to sell and why should he, but then would Sartori want to buy the stadium. DE needs a financial backer if we were o progress with trying for promotion yes the championship and as SD has pointed out we would be at the lower end of the budget unless we can fill the ground, that is easier said than done, However with a new stadium owner a bit more positivity may come back and out home attendances can increase to a limit where we could be reasonably sustainable in the championship and then work from there. But I still think Kassam is stringing Oxvox along no matter how much you lay into me about it it's something I feel.PS no I'm not a member of Oxvox and yes I do know what they stand for and the good they do and try to do for OUFC, Not laying into for feeling Kassam might be only worried about himself Bazzer, we pretty much all think that, and i'm pretty sure OxVox take that into consideration every time they talk with him. My point is you start firing into OxVox as if they are wasting time and letting people down. By DE's own and honest admission they are the only ones who have been able to negotiate properly with FK and are probably the last option (short of an ownership change and big bucks I guess). Just because we don't like what Kassam has done in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't at least TRY to get a deal done. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. Someone had to try something. I applaud them for that, you don't have to. The very least they deserve is not to vilified on here surely ?? If it appears that I'm having a go at Oxvox then sorry I know Oxvox do well for the fans and club, but I get worried dealing with Kassam is making all the wrong headlines, I was concerned that heads of teams were due at the end of the season and if it weren't for Sartori's involvement would they have the heads of teams and if so have they got people ready to come in and purchase from Kassam. It appears SD has looked into it but there's no buisness plan. But to be perfectly honest I do hope Sartori does complete a takeover maybe that will be for the best.
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Post by arthurturner on May 26, 2017 14:49:11 GMT
The ground the stadium sits on is owned by the council. Not according to the land registry it isn't. The freehold to the land is owned by Firoka. Really? What is the Land Registry Title Number?
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Post by headingtonutd on May 26, 2017 14:52:26 GMT
Not laying into for feeling Kassam might be only worried about himself Bazzer, we pretty much all think that, and i'm pretty sure OxVox take that into consideration every time they talk with him. My point is you start firing into OxVox as if they are wasting time and letting people down. By DE's own and honest admission they are the only ones who have been able to negotiate properly with FK and are probably the last option (short of an ownership change and big bucks I guess). Just because we don't like what Kassam has done in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't at least TRY to get a deal done. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. Someone had to try something. I applaud them for that, you don't have to. The very least they deserve is not to vilified on here surely ?? If it appears that I'm having a go at Oxvox then sorry I know Oxvox do well for the fans and club, but I get worried dealing with Kassam is making all the wrong headlines, I was concerned that heads of teams were due at the end of the season and if it weren't for Sartori's involvement would they have the heads of teams and if so have they got people ready to come in and purchase from Kassam. It appears SD has looked into it but there's no buisness plan. But to be perfectly honest I do hope Sartori does complete a takeover maybe that will be for the best. SD didn't just look in to it out of personal interest, he has been co opted on to the committee of OxVox. He is trying to help resolve this situation with OxVox and for the benefit of the club. He is on the OxVox committee.
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Post by bazzer9461 on May 26, 2017 14:53:43 GMT
The problem is the people on here were using facts. They didn't know the Mail report was inaccurate - yes, by all means respond. All it would have taken would have been a very quick. 'OxVox will get a report out asap. However we would like to acknowledge that today's report in the Oxford Mail contains a number of inaccuracies from last nights AGM. We will have a full report out in the next 48 hours.' A very reasoned calm response rather than a knee-jerk emotional one. Then if it is full of inaccuracies can Jem at least get the OM to redo the piece with the truth as the Local news is putting Oxvox in a bad light
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Post by foley on May 26, 2017 14:54:50 GMT
Really? I think that it is definitely worth the effort to try and resolve the ground issue. If it isn't resolved I wonder where the club will be in 10 years time (and I would start looking far lower down the pyramid) He's not far wrong. The stadium is barely fit for the purpose of a modern-day football stadium. And if this deal goes ahead it will be even less so. Where will people park???!!! It is, ironically, the Manor Ground for the 21st century. It will be the millstone around our neck which stops us progressing. Having been to a couple of the meetings Colin and Jem seem pretty confident that it could be a very good stadium if it was completed (at not a huge cost). From what I have seen both Colin and Jem have put a huge amount of work into this speaking to top Stadium developers as well as spending a whole load of time talking to the Council, FK and DE From what I gather Jem is always happy todiscuss so maybe call him if you couldn't make last night? getting the stadium under the control of OUFC seems to be the big issue (with the right commercial deal which I suspect will always be a 'challenge' with FK)
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Post by foley on May 26, 2017 14:58:02 GMT
Out of interest what would happen if we reached the end of our lease with no renegotiation? Would we be able to leave? Would FK be able to redevelop? Would there have to be sports played at the ground? Would there have to be a football team play at the ground? In short who would gain the most (if maybe we had a new ground to go to) in 8 years time (I assume we only have 8 years left) My understanding is: - Yes we could leave when the licence expires - FK could only develop if he overturns a covenant and then gets planning permission -It has been said that the covenant is for 'leisure activities' so no that doesn't mean a football team or sports team. If the club were to leave then Mr K certainly has a big short term issue ...
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Oxvox agm
May 26, 2017 15:01:26 GMT
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Post by lambchop on May 26, 2017 15:01:26 GMT
Out of interest what would happen if we reached the end of our lease with no renegotiation? Would we be able to leave? Would FK be able to redevelop? Would there have to be sports played at the ground? Would there have to be a football team play at the ground? In short who would gain the most (if maybe we had a new ground to go to) in 8 years time (I assume we only have 8 years left) My understanding is: - Yes we could leave when the licence expires - FK could only develop if he overturns a covenant and then gets planning permission -It has been said that the covenant is for 'leisure activities' so no that doesn't mean a football team or sports team. If the club were to leave then Mr K certainly has a big short term issue ... Thanks for the reply - that's an interesting angle and maybe something that needs considering and no jumping into signing a lease extension
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