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Post by SteMerritt on Jan 11, 2017 21:27:34 GMT
Lowest ever attendance at the Kassam last night, lowest ever crowd in a game vs Swindon last year. Shows what a lot of the crowd thinks of the competition and good for them. No doubt we'd take a few to Wembley but I'd expect far fewer than last year, which would be a disappointment. But unfortunately the club and the league have made their bed and they'll have to lie in it. The fans staying away won't be the main influence on the final decision but I'm proud of those who've said what they think of it by staying away. Im baffled. The game against Scunny was in a competition that some people are boycotting. The scum game wasn't. The attendance against Swindon (9,013) was larger than the attendance in 2012 (7,745) And in fact was larger than the last 5 LEAGUE games against them at The Manor. We played them at home in the Anglo Italian cup in 92 in front of 4,069. So where do you get the "lowest ever crowd against Swindon" from ? The game against them at their place earlier in the competition, not in the run to Wembley last season. Lowest attendance in the fixture at their place wasn't it?
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Post by Common Villager on Jan 11, 2017 21:29:23 GMT
For me the preservation of the status and success of the lower leagues is more important than the success of Oxford - in any competition. It's so shortsighted to say we have 'no control'. Yes, the PL will always try to impose their will regardless of public opinion. They do it to fans of their own clubs let alone fans of lower league teams. However, the Football League does not have to accept it. If they are shown that the implications of their decision to roll over for the PL can be huge, they will think twice about doing so. By attending these games, you're telling the EFL that you're okay with their decision. In a few years time, when we end up missing out on promotion because a B team filled with young foreign internationals gets there ahead of us, I'll look back to this competition and shake my head at anyone that attended a match. For me the preservation of the status and success of the lower leagues is more important than the success of Oxford - in any competition. "For me the preservation of the status and success of the lower leagues is more important than the success of Oxford - in any competition" WTF. I dont give a shit about the lower leagues if Oxford aren't in them,as i dont give a shit about the Conference now we are out of it. Are you saying that if Swansea B got to the final against the scum you would cheer on the scum ? So Oxford get relegated,"ah well no B teams so this season is a success" Lose a play off final to the Scum,"ah well no B teams,so thats more important than Oxford losing to the scum" Oxford in the conference,the FL stop promotion and relegation to preserve the success of the lower leagues,"ah well no B teams so who cares if Oxford are in non league football forever,the success of the lower leagues is more important than the team i've followed all my life" " By attending these games, you're telling the EFL that you're okay with their decision" And what decision would that be ? That the experiment failed and wont be repeated ? That teams will never be allowed in the football league ? If Newcastle play a "B team" in the FA cup as will likely happen,will you boycott the game ? "In a few years time, when we end up missing out on promotion because a B team filled with young foreign internationals gets there ahead of us, I'll look back to this competition and shake my head at anyone that attended a match". Does that mean if we miss out on promotion to a "B team" filled with promising young English players,you will be OK with that ? What part of the PL statement "B teams will NEVER play in the FL" dont you understand ? Okay Mr Wikipedia, here it goes. I'm a football fan above being an Oxford fan. It's a close competition though, obviously. If I had to choose between Oxford getting relegated this season and no B teams in the lower leagues and us staying up but B teams being introduced from next season, I'd choose the former. The 'decision' being its willingness to bow down to the PL against the will of the fans of the clubs that play in its league. The 'decision' being to compromise the integrity of traditional football clubs in order to allow PL teams to get away with not blooding their youngsters in their first team. The 'decision' being to impose fines on its own clubs for giving debuts to numerous young English playing whilst allowing the PL clubs to play established internationals that haven't lived up to their £10m price tag. With regards to your comments on Newcastle or whoever else fielding a weekend end team - surely you understand the difference between rotation and a permanent B team? There's not much more I can say on that point. And no, I wouldn't accept a B team of any sort beating us to promotion. It's just it's highly likely that most of the B teams fielded by PL teams will feature a large foreign contingent, and therefore not aiding the success of the English national team. And finally, if you're happy to take a promise made by the PL at face value then you're a more trusting man than I. Anyway, glad this game is out the way. Better start planning my journey to Wimbledon.
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Post by Toeby on Jan 11, 2017 21:39:04 GMT
It'd be interesting to see people's views on the trophy if we'd been knocked out in the group stages....
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Post by duffy13 on Jan 11, 2017 21:39:10 GMT
Sorry if this has been mentioned and I missed it, but are the highlights available anywhere there than yellow player?
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Post by makv on Jan 11, 2017 21:42:03 GMT
Seriously guys, forget how this thing happened, don't own the problem, and get behind the boys. Two ties before Wembley! It's a big deal, who do you love? COYY! Oh right so it's ok to undermine the future of lower league football, let B teams in the league structure and see OUFC suffer as long as we get a day out at Wembley? B teams are not getting into the League structure. This was shelved months ago, jeez. It never made sense anyway - Man U B get promoted to the Championship … now what?
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Post by berliner on Jan 11, 2017 21:46:22 GMT
Sorry if this has been mentioned and I missed it, but are the highlights available anywhere there than yellow player? Page 9 of this thread...
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Post by SteMerritt on Jan 11, 2017 21:46:41 GMT
Sorry if this has been mentioned and I missed it, but are the highlights available anywhere there than yellow player? OUFC official YouTube channel has them.
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Post by makv on Jan 11, 2017 21:47:45 GMT
I won't ever knock people for turning up in this competition to back the team, but to criticise people for taking a stand for the longer term good of OUFC - and lower league football in general - isn't on really. The whole debate should just stop there. Well put.
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Post by SteMerritt on Jan 11, 2017 21:48:02 GMT
Oh right so it's ok to undermine the future of lower league football, let B teams in the league structure and see OUFC suffer as long as we get a day out at Wembley? B teams are not getting into the League structure. This was shelved months ago, jeez. It never made sense anyway - Man U B get promoted to the Championship … now what? Yeah, but it was "shelved" (not "abandoned") because of low attendances...
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Post by tonyw on Jan 11, 2017 21:51:06 GMT
I think it is being conveniently ignored that the reason this experiment is being seen as a one-off and no chance of being expanded is PRECISELY because of the low crowds, and for anyone to suggest that if crowds had been big that it wouldn't be expanded is naive in the least. If the crowds had been big - it would've been an absolute miracle! This competition has never attracted big crowds - and I hardly think that the introduction of Norwich and Wolverhampton U23s was going to change that! Terrible crowds was an inevitability as soon as the likes of Man U, Liverpool & Arsenal decided not to enter. The real reason this experiment is going to be a on-off is because, in practice, the Premiership teams didn't give a toss about it. If they'd valued the chance to get their yoof experience against lower league teams, and they had felt that this competition gave them that opportunity, then they would just have opened up their checkbooks to write a big enough cheque to make sure it happens again next season. In that case, it would have mattered if every single crowd throughout the whole competition was sub-1000.
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Post by makv on Jan 11, 2017 21:52:59 GMT
I think it is being conveniently ignored that the reason this experiment is being seen as a one-off and no chance of being expanded is PRECISELY because of the low crowds, and for anyone to suggest that if crowds had been big that it wouldn't be expanded is naive in the least. But each to their own. No it's not. It's because the PL batted the "Whole Game Solution" bolllocks back to the EFL.
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Post by makv on Jan 11, 2017 21:55:58 GMT
B teams are not getting into the League structure. This was shelved months ago, jeez. It never made sense anyway - Man U B get promoted to the Championship … now what? Yeah, but it was "shelved" (not "abandoned") because of low attendances... Hmmm.
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Post by SteMerritt on Jan 11, 2017 22:03:33 GMT
I think it is being conveniently ignored that the reason this experiment is being seen as a one-off and no chance of being expanded is PRECISELY because of the low crowds, and for anyone to suggest that if crowds had been big that it wouldn't be expanded is naive in the least. If the crowds had been big - it would've been an absolute miracle! This competition has never attracted big crowds - and I hardly think that the introduction of Norwich and Wolverhampton U23s was going to change that! Terrible crowds was an inevitability as soon as the likes of Man U, Liverpool & Arsenal decided not to enter. The real reason this experiment is going to be a on-off is because, in practice, the Premiership teams didn't give a toss about it. If they'd valued the chance to get their yoof experience against lower league teams, and they had felt that this competition gave them that opportunity, then they would just have opened up their checkbooks to write a big enough cheque to make sure it happens again next season. In that case, it would have mattered if every single crowd throughout the whole competition was sub-1000. So if we accept all of what you have put, why did it happen in the first place? Someone must have seen the chance for £££. IF attendances had been large (and I totally agree with you that it was never going happen as fans wouldn't accept it) and it came to another vote to extend the trial, it would have been left to the chairmen of the clubs to decide on going forward with it. Now, would they say "attendances have been good, but I'm against it even if it costs me money".... Erm... I wouldn't bank on that. If Mr Kassam, for example, was in charge still, and had to vote on something that may make him a few short-term £££ but long-term? The average chairman won't care.
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Post by SteMerritt on Jan 11, 2017 22:05:42 GMT
Yeah, but it was "shelved" (not "abandoned") because of low attendances... Hmmm. Are you suggesting that is a quote from me? I have no idea who Shaun Harvey is, let alone start quoting him
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Post by concretebob on Jan 11, 2017 22:21:44 GMT
Oh right so it's ok to undermine the future of lower league football, let B teams in the league structure and see OUFC suffer as long as we get a day out at Wembley? B teams are not getting into the League structure. This was shelved months ago, jeez. It never made sense anyway - Man U B get promoted to the Championship … now what? If you're happy to believe that, then fair enough. Believe me the PL will try and push B teams once again in the future
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Post by gobbledgook on Jan 11, 2017 22:23:21 GMT
Come on boycotters, get angry and take action and take the rest of the fans with you!
IF we get to the final turn up and grab the UKs attention.
What brought Coventry's plight to the general publics attention? Was it the dwindling attendances? Maybe slightly but mainly it was the toy balls thrown on the pitch and the pitch invasion.
I'm not suggesting breaking the law but rather than staying away, turn up and let everyone know what we think. A Minutes silence and wearing black in mourning for football...... Or Turning your back on the game...... Or Singing anti Prem U23 songs.....
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Post by saddletramp on Jan 12, 2017 5:15:56 GMT
Im baffled. The game against Scunny was in a competition that some people are boycotting. The scum game wasn't. The attendance against Swindon (9,013) was larger than the attendance in 2012 (7,745) And in fact was larger than the last 5 LEAGUE games against them at The Manor. We played them at home in the Anglo Italian cup in 92 in front of 4,069. So where do you get the "lowest ever crowd against Swindon" from ? www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/14781701.Swindon_Town_0__Oxford_United_0__Swindon_win_extra_point_on_pens_/Attendance: 2,698. Not surprised you forgot that one, I think most people had forgotten it while it was happening Im sorry i thought we were talking about home games. If we aren't then there were more people against Scunny on Tuesday than against Dagenham in the equivalent round last season,so obviously the boycott isnt working.
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Post by saddletramp on Jan 12, 2017 5:42:57 GMT
"I'm a football fan above being an Oxford fan" So why are you going to Wimbledon ? Surely the football avaiable on Saturday on sky (Spurs early,Chelsea late) will be far better football matches than the hoofball that AFC play ?
"If you're happy to take a promise made by the PL at face value then you're a more trusting man than I" Yes i am.
Rather than a poster on a forum who comes out with, "I've been told that there are already murmurings of softening stances and increasing acceptance of B Teams"
Really and just who told you this,Concretebob ? Where are these so called "murmurings" coming from ? And, "In a few years time, when we end up missing out on promotion because a B team filled with young foreign internationals gets there ahead of us, I'll look back to this competition and shake my head at anyone that attended a match"
Now i love a good conspiracy theory,but i always think of "a few" as 3 or 4,(more than a couple,less than a handful) so do you really think that in 3 or 4 years time Oxford will be missing out on promotion to the championship because a B team won the league ? For one thing,if the only thing to take out of this years competition,its that top teams under 21s are shite,and if they EVER entered the football league they would be relegation material rather than promotion.
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Post by saddletramp on Jan 12, 2017 5:45:43 GMT
If our top attendance this season has been, for instance, against Chelsea U21s and it had been repeated across the lower league clubs, do people REALLY think that it wouldn't then have been pushed by the PL teams to have them in the League Cup next? Or even on the FA Cup? Then the league? Concretebob and Common Villager for 2.
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Post by holdsteady on Jan 12, 2017 5:56:57 GMT
Im sorry i thought we were talking about home games. If we aren't then there were more people against Scunny on Tuesday than against Dagenham in the equivalent round last season,so obviously the boycott isnt working. Dagenham was an away game, against a club with very low crowds anyway. The Swindon comparisons make no sense as they are both pre checkatrade. Our two home games have been played in front of very low crowds, even less than normal, ditto the two away games against proper teams. That is mirrored across the country.
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Post by saddletramp on Jan 12, 2017 6:00:40 GMT
Im sorry i thought we were talking about home games. If we aren't then there were more people against Scunny on Tuesday than against Dagenham in the equivalent round last season,so obviously the boycott isnt working. Dagenham was an away game, against a club with very low crowds anyway. The Swindon comparisons make no sense as they are both pre checkatrade. Our two home games have been played in front of very low crowds, even less than normal, ditto the two away games against proper teams. That is mirrored across the country. Nope,the post is regarding an AWAY game at Swindon,this season,in the Checkatrade cup. Thats why i brought up Dagenham .
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Post by holdsteady on Jan 12, 2017 6:07:34 GMT
Dagenham was an away game, against a club with very low crowds anyway. The Swindon comparisons make no sense as they are both pre checkatrade. Our two home games have been played in front of very low crowds, even less than normal, ditto the two away games against proper teams. That is mirrored across the country. Nope,the post is regarding an AWAY game at Swindon,this season,in the Checkatrade cup. Thats why i brought up Dagenham . But Dagenham away and Swindon away are not fair comparisons are they? Swindon average 6,500 whilst Dagenham averaged 2,500. One is a local Derby, the other is not. Do you really think their would of only been two and a half thousand if the JPT had stayed as it was? You were the one boasting that their would be over 5 thousand at the county ground. Across the board attendances have fallen from the very low level they were at, the numbers back that up.
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Post by saddletramp on Jan 12, 2017 6:18:50 GMT
Nope,the post is regarding an AWAY game at Swindon,this season,in the Checkatrade cup. Thats why i brought up Dagenham . But Dagenham away and Swindon away are not fair comparisons are they? Swindon average 6,500 whilst Dagenham averaged 2,500. One is a local Derby, the other is not. Do you really think their would of only been two and a half thousand if the JPT had stayed as it was? You were the one boasting that their would be over 5 thousand at the county ground. Across the board attendances have fallen from the very low level they were at, the numbers back that up. If you read through the thread,i was making comparisons on home games,someone posted the Swindon attendance,i said that if we are talking away games i will bring up Dagenham. I wasn't comparing the Swindon crowd to Dagenhams. You say across the board attendances have fallen, Well in the area semi final last season we got 2k against Yeovil,im betting we will match or better that attendance in the quarter final if we get a home draw. P.S. If Oxford had delayed the release of tickets for Swindon,then offered first dibs to people with a stub from the Scunny game,what would the attendance have been ? More importantly,how many "boycotteers" would have attended ?
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Post by holdsteady on Jan 12, 2017 6:23:44 GMT
But Dagenham away and Swindon away are not fair comparisons are they? Swindon average 6,500 whilst Dagenham averaged 2,500. One is a local Derby, the other is not. Do you really think their would of only been two and a half thousand if the JPT had stayed as it was? You were the one boasting that their would be over 5 thousand at the county ground. Across the board attendances have fallen from the very low level they were at, the numbers back that up. If you read through the thread,i was making comparisons on home games,someone posted the Swindon attendance,i said that if we are talking away games i will bring up Dagenham. I wasn't comparing the Swindon crowd to Dagenhams. You say across the board attendances have fallen, Well in the area semi final last season we got 2k against Yeovil,im betting we will match or better that attendance in the quarter final if we get a home draw. P.S. If Oxford had delayed the release of tickets for Swindon,then offered first dibs to people with a stub from the Scunny game,what would the attendance have been ? More importantly,how many "boycotteers" would have attended ? They would never do that though would they, part of the selling point of season tickets is first dibs on away tickets. But if blackmail is the only way to get people through the gates then that sums the competition up. If we get a comparable draw to Yeovil at home in the next round I highly doubt their will be 2,800 there.
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Post by scotters on Jan 12, 2017 6:26:48 GMT
Im sorry i thought we were talking about home games. If we aren't then there were more people against Scunny on Tuesday than against Dagenham in the equivalent round last season,so obviously the boycott isnt working. Keep digging... you're right crowds at Oxford this season are similar to those at a dying dagenham team last year. Obviously this means business as usual
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Post by Common Villager on Jan 12, 2017 7:24:58 GMT
"I'm a football fan above being an Oxford fan" So why are you going to Wimbledon ? Surely the football avaiable on Saturday on sky (Spurs early,Chelsea late) will be far better football matches than the hoofball that AFC play ? "If you're happy to take a promise made by the PL at face value then you're a more trusting man than I" Yes i am. Rather than a poster on a forum who comes out with, "I've been told that there are already murmurings of softening stances and increasing acceptance of B Teams" Really and just who told you this,Concretebob ? Where are these so called "murmurings" coming from ? And, "In a few years time, when we end up missing out on promotion because a B team filled with young foreign internationals gets there ahead of us, I'll look back to this competition and shake my head at anyone that attended a match" Now i love a good conspiracy theory,but i always think of "a few" as 3 or 4,(more than a couple,less than a handful) so do you really think that in 3 or 4 years time Oxford will be missing out on promotion to the championship because a B team won the league ? For one thing,if the only thing to take out of this years competition,its that top teams under 21s are shite,and if they EVER entered the football league they would be relegation material rather than promotion. I really don't understand your first point. I'm a football fan above an Oxford fan (and I did say only just) because I would still watch football if Oxford ceased to exist. There's no Oxford without football. And has your argument really got down to different interpretations of 'few'? If so, I'll make the rest of my point as simple as possible for you. I am against B Teams playing in any first team competition - ever. I believe a stand needs to be made to show the EFL / FA / PL that it would not be accepted. For me, not supporting my club in this competition is supporting the future of my club, as I truly believe the introduction of B Teams would result in the end of football in this country as we know it. Look at Spain.
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Post by saddletramp on Jan 12, 2017 8:20:44 GMT
"as I truly believe the introduction of B Teams would result in the end of football in this country as we know it. Look at Spain" Spain ? We in this country have more full time professional football teams than any country in the world, We also have the most lax laws on debt within football of any top footballing nations in the world. Dont you think this might be connected ? Teams in this country are allowed by the use of administration and other methods to dodge paying there bills. I believe and have done for years that 100+ full time football clubs is unsustainable,i also believe that when one club folds there will be a domino effect and a lot more will go,how the Accrington/Morecambes of this world survive is beyond me. Not for one minute do i agree with B teams entering the football league,but i do believe that change has to come and QUICKLY. "B teams were trialed in the EFL trophy,it obviously didnt work,but sticking with the current system because "thats what we've always had" isnt the way forward. The FA cup is dead on its feet,the league cup ditto,yes the lower league likes of Plymouth and Reading can still get massive support for a big game at Anfield or O/T,but im betting if Reading were at Plymouth the crowd would have been minimal. We know that there is a massive imbalance in football finance,we have to somehow find a way to get more of the money down to grass roots football. How about this for a scenario,10 FL league teams are about to go to the wall,the PL come up with a new league structure,5 leagues of 22 teams championship to league 4. 110 teams incorporating 72 FL teams,24 national league teams and 14 PL reserve teams,with the PL clubs starting in League 4. For this deal the PL would guarantee £1 million to each club per season. This deal saves the 10 clubs from going to the wall. Would this deal anger you so much that you would campaign for OUFC (not 1 of the 10 clubs) to vote against it and sod the 10 clubs. Or would you bite the bullet and except PL clubs,because you love watching football and would hate the idea of 10 towns losing football forever ?
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Post by concretebob on Jan 12, 2017 9:17:16 GMT
"as I truly believe the introduction of B Teams would result in the end of football in this country as we know it. Look at Spain" Spain ? We in this country have more full time professional football teams than any country in the world, We also have the most lax laws on debt within football of any top footballing nations in the world. Dont you think this might be connected ? Teams in this country are allowed by the use of administration and other methods to dodge paying there bills. I believe and have done for years that 100+ full time football clubs is unsustainable,i also believe that when one club folds there will be a domino effect and a lot more will go,how the Accrington/Morecambes of this world survive is beyond me. Not for one minute do i agree with B teams entering the football league,but i do believe that change has to come and QUICKLY. "B teams were trialed in the EFL trophy,it obviously didnt work,but sticking with the current system because "thats what we've always had" isnt the way forward. The FA cup is dead on its feet,the league cup ditto,yes the lower league likes of Plymouth and Reading can still get massive support for a big game at Anfield or O/T,but im betting if Reading were at Plymouth the crowd would have been minimal. We know that there is a massive imbalance in football finance,we have to somehow find a way to get more of the money down to grass roots football. How about this for a scenario,10 FL league teams are about to go to the wall,the PL come up with a new league structure,5 leagues of 22 teams championship to league 4. 110 teams incorporating 72 FL teams,24 national league teams and 14 PL reserve teams,with the PL clubs starting in League 4. For this deal the PL would guarantee £1 million to each club per season. This deal saves the 10 clubs from going to the wall. Would this deal anger you so much that you would campaign for OUFC (not 1 of the 10 clubs) to vote against it and sod the 10 clubs. Or would you bite the bullet and except PL clubs,because you love watching football and would hate the idea of 10 towns losing football forever ? Your last paragraph. How often do clubs go to the wall and the fans don't bother again? We are in the age of the Phoenix club. Weirdly enough we are playing one on Saturday! I accept people will attend the EFL Trophy. It's their choice, they are free to do that. Just as I'm free to not attend any tournament that includes B teams in it.
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Post by saddletramp on Jan 12, 2017 10:00:29 GMT
"Your last paragraph. How often do clubs go to the wall and the fans don't bother again? We are in the age of the Phoenix club. Weirdly enough we are playing one on Saturday" "Bother again" yes, achieve what AFC and to a certain extent Newport have done is the exception rather than the rule. How long ago did we beat Rushden and Diamonds in a play of semi final ? Its only 10 years ago that they were 2 divisions above Oxford,where are they now ? Boston,Darlington,Maidstone etc,where are they now ? If 10 clubs go to the wall,there are plenty of clubs in the National league who will jump at the chance of league football. If another 10 go,im sure that wont be a problem. But the fact is if we can get a more even distribution of wealth through B teams,then those 10/15/20 MIGHT not go to the wall. If Oxford United were going to the wall,the PL offered big bucks to get B teams in at a lower level,the choice is OUFC and B teams or no OUFC at all,would you still feel the same ?
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Post by concretebob on Jan 12, 2017 10:02:27 GMT
"Your last paragraph. How often do clubs go to the wall and the fans don't bother again? We are in the age of the Phoenix club. Weirdly enough we are playing one on Saturday" "Bother again" yes, achieve what AFC and to a certain extent Newport have done is the exception rather than the rule. How long ago did we beat Rushden and Diamonds in a play of semi final ? Its only 10 years ago that they were 2 divisions above Oxford,where are they now ? Boston,Darlington,Maidstone etc,where are they now ? If 10 clubs go to the wall,there are plenty of clubs in the National league who will jump at the chance of league football. If another 10 go,im sure that wont be a problem. But the fact is if we can get a more even distribution of wealth through B teams,then those 10/15/20 MIGHT not go to the wall. If Oxford United were going to the wall,the PL offered big bucks to get B teams in at a lower level,the choice is OUFC and B teams or no OUFC at all,would you still feel the same ? Do you seriously think that the PL will pump money into lower league football if we accept B teams? Your argument is completely theoretical. Money aside - it would destroy the history and heritage of the game in this country. But money is king right? As a side note can you please try and use the quote tool? Your posts look a right mess!
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