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Post by saddletramp on Oct 9, 2014 10:06:26 GMT
It would be interesting to find out what Coventry RFC think about Wasps moving to the Ricoh? Coventry were the top team in England in the early 70s,and unlike the top teams in Oxfordshire,actually share the same city.
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Post by Si Bradbury on Oct 9, 2014 10:27:42 GMT
It would be interesting to find out what Coventry RFC think about Wasps moving to the Ricoh? Coventry were the top team in England in the early 70s,and unlike the top teams in Oxfordshire,actually share the same city. I spoke to a CCFC fan yesterday who works for our suppliers. He was telling me about Wasps and how they have paid upto £20m for half of the Ricoh - I haven't checked what the news reports have said. I think some clear and strong issues remain over dealing with SISU and the Head of the Negotiations at the Council was a little more interested in Rugby coming into the area than looking to do a deal with CCFC. That may have been part to other economic pressure - Land Rover. They are based in Coventry and they are partners of WASPS moving forward. I suspect that was a factor in this too. £20m is a fair chunk for a rugby club to find..... Yet I feel sorry for CCFC and their fans. They have been in a similar position to us, now far worse than ourselves (tenants, rent and little matchday income). If only they had a CRTB on their stadium, I don't think they do. The only remaining light for them is that SISU are actually actively seeking moving anyway, they have 4 years to do so I believe as part of their agreement(s). If that doesn't happen, they won't ever own their stadium in the short/mid term and therefore, progression of their club is likely to stall.
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Post by Si Bradbury on Oct 9, 2014 10:29:47 GMT
'By moving to Coventry, Wasps have told their fans they don't matter' Wasps fan Paul Dornan explains why he will not be following his rugby club on their 80-mile move to the Ricoh Arena in Coventry I have been supporting Wasps for 25 years but will not be following them to Coventry. Absolutely not. Rugby is about comradeship and respect but Wasps have shown absolutely no respect to their supporters. Why would you follow a club that does that on a 80-mile trip up the M1? The club are basically telling the fans who have stood by them all these years that they don’t count anymore. Rugby teams do not just belong to an owner who buys them; they belong to the community that has created and sustained them over generations. Wasps have now decided to dump the girl they came with and dance with someone else from the Midlands. No one would consider moving Chelsea Football Club up to Birmingham. I don’t know how they think they can do it with a rugby club. Do they think people won’t care? I began following Wasps in the late 1980s and it was a wonderful experience. I remember going to Sudbury on the Tube and walking to the ground. It was small and the players were just a few feet away. There was a wonderful little clubhouse, where they served pasties and meat pies, and you could have a chat with the players at the bar after the match. You don’t get local things in London but Wasps were a proper London team. That was the point. The supporters were a very grounded group of normal people who felt very connected in Sudbury, a very unpretentious place. When the club moved to Loftus Road in the 1990s, you could meet your friends in London, have lunch in your local pub, go watch the game and then head into the city. It’s all part of having a community – a club that is part of your life. Grounds in Bath, Gloucester and Northampton are in the middle of the towns and everything feels so connected. Rugby is one of those games. It’s not about distant millionaires who live in leafy suburban mansions. The club moved to Adams Park 12 years ago and, even though it is no picnic to visit, a lot of London-based fans accepted that move was about survival and stood by them. Personally I felt pretty disappointed and do not get to go along as often now, though I’ve supported them fervently from North London. Moving the club to Coventry is a totally different order of insult to the people who have stood by the club in difficult times in the last few years. The club are now telling them they don’t matter. People who have been travelling up to High Wycombe for years and are now meant to follow the club to Coventry. It’s mad. I can’t see how you can transplant a rugby club 80 miles away and expect it to flourish. It’s like taking a banana tree out of Kew Gardens and expecting it to grow in the middle of nowhere on the Scottish moors. The club might hope they will have a better demographic in Coventry; well, good luck to them. Where are they going to magic up a group of supporters who care about them in the Midlands? To go and become just another club that has to compete with Gloucester and Northampton Saints for attention is absurd. I don’t see the business logic in the move either. Why did they not try to move to the Olympic Stadium and reposition themselves as a London team again? Rugby is being shoved right out of the city. Saracens are out in the suburbs; Harlequins are in Richmond; and Wasps are going to Coventry. Where are young kids going to see rugby in London now? Am I supposed to turn into a Sarries fan now? I don’t think so. Wasps were always underdogs. They weren’t as flashy as Harlequins and didn’t have a massive fanbase, like Leicester and Northampton. They lived on the edge but produced some amazing rugby and some incredible players from relatively slim resources. They played with flair and tried to be an exciting team. But all of that identity has been thrown in the dumpster now. For what gain I don’t know. Moving to Coventry and expecting Londoners and newer fans from High Wycombe to follow them there is a brutal severing of the essential contract between the fans and the team. The club have stretched that relationship to the point where it has to break for many people. Myself included. Which is very sad. Still, I’ll always have memories of happier times watching Lawrence Dallaglio, Simon Shaw, Josh Lewsey and Trevor Leota taking the rest of the Premiership to the cleaners week in week out. In those far-off days when the Wasps knew who their real friends were. Paul Dornan was speaking to Paul Campbell www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/09/wasps-coventry-move-london-fans-rugby-union
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 12:26:43 GMT
Great article by the Wasps fan. The whole franchise culture serves only the money focussed speculator.
This move, with the relatively significant distance (by UK standards), will be very interesting. LW (a current failure), Saracens and LI have all moved relatively close to their home patch, as had Wasps until this. I just don't see their current fan base travelling in numbers, in the way the Wimbledon fans didn't go to MK.
In the US, where this culture has existed for a long time, the receiving cities are all large, pay for new stadiums and have populations desperate for a professional club to call their own. The moves have been mostly successful. Look at the Dodgers. They moved from NY to LA and play in front of huge crowds, but they did so because LA was growing so fast at the time and the spectator numbers were guaranteed due to population growth. The Giants did the same thing but to San Francisco, again, population boom guaranteed the success of it.
Coventry is not experiencing a population boom. It is not thousands of miles from top-class rugby (Leicester and Northampton are arguably the two biggest clubs). Add to that my assumption that Wasps' own fans won't travel, then I think this has disaster written all over it. I'd say good to that if it weren't for the fact that their are about 5,000 Wasps fans that are about to lose something that they love.
Shame on the speculators.
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Post by thehorse on Oct 9, 2014 18:38:31 GMT
It's interesting how people are using phrases like predatory rugby club etc for wasps moving into the Ricoh due to Coventry city's financial position.
Why isn't the same thing said of AFC Wimbledon who effectively did the same to Kingstonian FC when they took charge of the ground there.....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 18:53:49 GMT
It's interesting how people are using phrases like predatory rugby club etc for wasps moving into the Ricoh due to Coventry city's financial position. Why isn't the same thing said of AFC Wimbledon who effectively did the same to Kingstonian FC when they took charge of the ground there..... Agree entirely. Bristol Rovers did a similar thing too. I would say that, similarly to us, this isn't really to do with CC's financial position. More the move to the Ricoh from Highfield Road saw the club split from the stadium in corporate structure. They're paying for that manipulation now.
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Post by bicesterox on Oct 10, 2014 13:11:24 GMT
From the Wasps websiteWill Coventry City Football Club still play at the Ricoh Arena? We are delighted to see Coventry City back at the Ricoh Arena and this is where we want them to remain. We look forward to building a long and fruitful partnership with the Sky Blues. We play our home games on Sundays. The Sky Blues play their home games on Saturdays. It does not make sense to own a world-class sporting arena that is only in use for 16 days of the year. This is a multi-event Arena, which we would love to be used as often as it can be. For any football fans concerned about the effect of rugby and football being played each week, the pitch is reinforced. The Xtra Grass product is the same as is used at the Kassam Stadium for Oxford United and London Welsh RFC where there are no issues.No issues, who are they kidding
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Post by Junior on Oct 10, 2014 13:15:59 GMT
I'd imagine they have full time groundsman. Oxford don't.
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Post by mdh on Oct 11, 2014 17:07:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 17:38:30 GMT
Lovely stuff. What was the crowd?
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Post by mdh on Oct 11, 2014 17:55:25 GMT
2154
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Post by auntsally on Oct 11, 2014 18:06:12 GMT
I would forget about LW and look at oxford United's Problems. The way things are going next seasons gates will be around 3k and without Lenagan's £400k a year to keep the club afloat there's only one way the club is going. Dont expect too much from the new structure.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 20:17:21 GMT
I would forget about LW and look at oxford United's Problems. The way things are going next seasons gates will be around 3k and without Lenagan's £400k a year to keep the club afloat there's only one way the club is going. Dont expect too much from the new structure. I can keep an eye on both. London Welsh failing is at least some solace for our future
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Post by Lone Gunman on Oct 11, 2014 22:33:31 GMT
Nice to see my old schoolmate Mark Wilson sticking it to LW.
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Post by thehorse on Oct 12, 2014 13:50:52 GMT
Why is London Welsh failing good for Oxford utd?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 14:00:52 GMT
Because their presence increases Kassams yield and drives up the price of the stadium.
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Post by thehorse on Oct 12, 2014 14:24:51 GMT
But lOUFC aren't in a position to buy the stadium with or without LW being there and will not be as long as the crowds are low and the results are crap.
Also, if the club did buy the stadium, are they going to be in a position to turn down revenue by kicking LW out? Unlikely....but also stupid if they did.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 15:04:42 GMT
But lOUFC aren't in a position to buy the stadium with or without LW being there and will not be as long as the crowds are low and the results are crap. Also, if the club did buy the stadium, are they going to be in a position to turn down revenue by kicking LW out? Unlikely....but also stupid if they did. That's the position of the new ownership. They want to be football only. And they've also stated an expressed interest in buying the stadium. Crowds and results are a bit if a red herring in my opinion with regards the stadium
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Post by auntsally on Oct 12, 2014 15:42:34 GMT
Because their presence increases Kassams yield and drives up the price of the stadium. The price of the stadium hasn't moved in all the years united has been trying to buy it. If united can't afford to buy players how the hell can they,by themselves buy the stadium? Sports stadium cant pay their way by one game of football every two weeks for 9 months of the year.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 18:53:46 GMT
Because their presence increases Kassams yield and drives up the price of the stadium. The price of the stadium hasn't moved in all the years united has been trying to buy it. If united can't afford to buy players how the hell can they,by themselves buy the stadium? Sports stadium cant pay their way by one game of football every two weeks for 9 months of the year. We pay a rent not significantly different to what the interest on a fair price would be. That is then supplemented by non matchday activity like conferencing. That price is unachievable whilst welsh are here. And let's not forget they already tried to buy the stadium behind our backs. Them owning it would kill a lot of our potential and aspirations
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 18:54:47 GMT
Ps welcome to the forum
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Post by chappers on Oct 12, 2014 19:45:39 GMT
Coventry is not experiencing a population boom. It is not thousands of miles from top-class rugby (Leicester and Northampton are arguably the two biggest clubs). Add to that my assumption that Wasps' own fans won't travel, then I think this has disaster written all over it. I'd say good to that if it weren't for the fact that their are about 5,000 Wasps fans that are about to lose something that they love. Shame on the speculators. Will be interesting to see, apparently their share of the revenue from the Ricoh alone will give them the biggest revenue of any of the premiership rugby clubs, they have a willing benefactor but I think even he is tiring of funding the club to the tune of £3m every year. Not that it's any way to run a sports club, but it appears that they may be in the fortunate position of being able to play in an empty stadium if they so chose and still be in abetter financial position than they are currently. At the very least Derek Richards can focus his money towards the playing side of the club and whilst it may be a disaster for a lot of the existing fans it will probably be far from a disaster on the pitch. Interestingly none of the announced protests materialised at Adams Park today and they achieved their highest home crowd since March 2013
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Post by auntsally on Oct 12, 2014 19:53:20 GMT
Thank you Ricky. For the last year or so both chairman of ou and lw regularly met to work together for the benifit of both clubs.The new ou owners have turned their backs and think they can do better by themselves.yet another error.
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Post by one trick Raponi on Oct 12, 2014 19:54:09 GMT
Because their presence increases Kassams yield and drives up the price of the stadium. This was questionned at the time LW arrived. iirc OxVox's view was LW also renting would not significantly up the price Firoka would charge for the stadium were oufc to put a bid together to buy it.
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Post by one trick Raponi on Oct 12, 2014 20:06:55 GMT
Thank you Ricky. For the last year or so both chairman of ou and lw regularly met to work together for the benifit of both clubs.The new ou owners have turned their backs and think they can do better by themselves.yet another error. That is the new board's prerogative whether they want to work with LW right now and longer term there are other ways to raise revenue 24/7 from the facilities at and around the stadium than us having to rely on groundsharing with another sports club. I am not anti-groundsharing and with correct and proper pitch maintenance it can and is done elsewhere to no major detriment to other football clubs e.g. Reading and London Irish. But most importantly oufc have to be the landlords and calling the shots. Anything less would be a nail in the coffin for oufc's future and future ambitions. This is all hypothetical and I'm more concerned our new board seem to have had no real plans in place after all to buy the ground when they came in.
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Post by chappers on Oct 13, 2014 15:17:49 GMT
That's a fair point, neither club have got anywhere near to even exploiting the potential revenue available to them under the current constraints.
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Post by gronk (LWRFC) on Oct 15, 2014 23:11:43 GMT
I would forget about LW and look at oxford United's Problems. The way things are going next seasons gates will be around 3k and without Lenagan's £400k a year to keep the club afloat there's only one way the club is going. Dont expect too much from the new structure. I can keep an eye on both. London Welsh failing is at least some solace for our future I had a look at the table today... I guess it could be some solace for LW supporters that it's not the only sports team in Oxford that's struggling to keep afloat Judging by the relative positions in their respective clubs I'd say both sets of fans are bobbing around on a sinking ship
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 6:05:12 GMT
I can keep an eye on both. London Welsh failing is at least some solace for our future I had a look at the table today... I guess it could be some solace for LW supporters that it's not the only sports team in Oxford that's struggling to keep afloat Judging by the relative positions in their respective clubs I'd say both sets of fans are bobbing around on a sinking ship Of course it being rather relevant that only one of those respective clubs has any credible connection to Oxford. The other sold itself out, it's fanbase out, and it's history out in the hope of greater riches.
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Post by Colin B on Oct 16, 2014 7:04:45 GMT
I can keep an eye on both. London Welsh failing is at least some solace for our future I had a look at the table today... I guess it could be some solace for LW supporters that it's not the only sports team in Oxford that's struggling to keep afloat Judging by the relative positions in their respective clubs I'd say both sets of fans are bobbing around on a sinking ship And up pops another LW fan to remind us all of why we should be very wary of their true intentions. These people have one agenda, and that is to be the sole tenants or owners of the kassam stadium. Partnership my arse!
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Post by mariokempes on Nov 16, 2014 17:05:53 GMT
Getting one hell of a dicking today
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