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Post by ox44xp on Sept 29, 2014 9:20:45 GMT
So that's 30,000 people happy to stump up £35 to support "their team" who can't be arsed to find £20 when "their club" needs them
If they did that, the London Welsh situation would be academic
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Post by Lone Gunman on Sept 29, 2014 16:02:34 GMT
I suggest you look further back than that, to the time the stadium was originally planned. This was pre kassam. He merely saw an opportunity and exploited it for his own gain, which is something he has in common with LW. When it was originally planned, and went through planning and design, it was a stadium for OXFORD UNITED ONLY, not for Oxford United and AN Other! Go back as far as you like to the days when OUFC were flying high in the First Division, the bottom line is that Oxford United find themselves in the position they are through, a long succession of owners mis-managing the club, not through anything to do with London Welsh or any other potential co-tenants. I would suggest your efforts would be better directed towards pressuring the owners of your own club, to break that cycle, rather than trying to fight a perceived threat from London Welsh. I'm sure every sporting club in this country would like to have their own stadium where everything bobs along all rosy, but the bottom line is some clubs just don't have the wherewithal for that to be a reality. As for just blindly refusing to entertain any form of alliance that may be beneficial to both clubs, because you just don't want to share, is surely, if idealistic, very short sighted. I take it you're using the phrase 'perceived threat' to describe what your club represents in an attempt to suggest that there really is no threat. The truth though, is that LW are a threat, isn't it. Your management have made it crystal clear that they want to become a major concern in Oxford/Oxon and that is going to mean treading on the football club's toes. As badly as that has gone for you so far, it seems you've got a lot of will and crucially, a lot of cash to throw at it, so that effort is going to continue for the time being. I love the condescending tone of your reply though. Tell me, why should we entertain any form of alliance with Welsh when you have made little to no effort to make OUFC fans receptive to such an idea? Wouldn't it be a better idea to stop lecturing us and induce *your* club to make an effort at building bridges with OUFC? The onus is on you not us, you are the ones coming in from outside and muscling in on our territory and our markets. Sadly, I think you've probably done just about enough damage already to ensure that reconciliation is unlikely.
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Post by chappers on Sept 29, 2014 22:13:52 GMT
The term perceived threat, may or may not, have any validity, but London Welsh are concentrating on their own market and opportunities within Oxford, opportunities that OUFC have had at their own disposal, unrivalled for god knows how long. LW are not intending nor trying to muscle in on anyone's territory. You may be right that there is limited market or sponsorship, but as I said , plenty of previous opportunity to have sewn that up. There is definitely a perceived threat from some OUFC supporters, point of view, one which your previous owner didn't acknowledge. I have no idea of the opinion of your current owners, but I would be willing to bet that they wouldn't dismiss out of hand any alliance with LW if they thought it were beneficial to the club or themselves, a decision that would be made by the owners of OUFC and LW and not one that you or I would have much influence on
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 22:16:08 GMT
So that's 30,000 people happy to stump up £35 to support "their team" who can't be arsed to find £20 when "their club" needs them If they did that, the London Welsh situation would be academic Perhaps they could improve a little on the pitch? It's not exactly been the best 15 years has it. There are of course different degrees of fan but I'm sure you understand that 33,000 wouldn't head to a tier 5 London welsh play off tomorrow
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Post by Lone Gunman on Sept 30, 2014 0:11:09 GMT
The term perceived threat, may or may not, have any validity, but London Welsh are concentrating on their own market and opportunities within Oxford, opportunities that OUFC have had at their own disposal, unrivalled for god knows how long. LW are not intending nor trying to muscle in on anyone's territory. You may be right that there is limited market or sponsorship, but as I said , plenty of previous opportunity to have sewn that up. There is definitely a perceived threat from some OUFC supporters, point of view, one which your previous owner didn't acknowledge. I have no idea of the opinion of your current owners, but I would be willing to bet that they wouldn't dismiss out of hand any alliance with LW if they thought it were beneficial to the club or themselves, a decision that would be made by the owners of OUFC and LW and not one that you or I would have much influence on That's a joke. Of course you are. Your owners have sought to bring the rugby club to Oxford because they see a market here. If it was just about the stadium you wouldn't have moved because such fans as you had all fitted into your old ground. And if you couldn't play there because of league rules, but weren't interested in expanding your fanbase and interests, then you surely wouldn't have come all the way out to Oxford to play in a prem-standard stadium. Don't patronise us. For all the reasons you've listed surrounding missed opportunities and mis-management, OUFC haven't taken advantage of the market that exists in Oxon properly. But your lot are very keen to do so, and we will be the losers if you get that strategy right. I think your 'you missed your chance so you can't moan when someone else comes in and takes it' attitude, (which is the undertone of your last couple of posts,) is far closer to the attitude of your owners than you might like openly to suggest. I struggle to see how any kind of alliance would be mutually beneficial anyway. We might buy the stadium together but frankly its a dump, and the one thing that might make it less of a dump would be if we owned it and could do what we liked with it. We can kiss goodbye to that if we went into joint ownership with you. Perhaps we could work together to improve the overall experience but as I said above, its been sh!t for us for years, so when we don't really want you around, why should we help you get something we have had a right to for over a decade and never got? Finally, if the Water Eaton plan has any legs, our owners aren't going to want to do a deal with LW because part of the plan, as I understand it, is to flog the ground for development and you aren't going to want that. Nor are your owners going to want to own the ground outright (buying out OUFC's half stake after a joint bid) because its a massive liability should you again fail to retain your prem status, or the financial plug is pulled by whoever your backers are.
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Post by Junior on Sept 30, 2014 0:20:24 GMT
The term perceived threat, may or may not, have any validity, but London Welsh are concentrating on their own market and opportunities within Oxford, opportunities that OUFC have had at their own disposal, unrivalled for god knows how long. LW are not intending nor trying to muscle in on anyone's territory. You may be right that there is limited market or sponsorship, but as I said , plenty of previous opportunity to have sewn that up. There is definitely a perceived threat from some OUFC supporters, point of view, one which your previous owner didn't acknowledge. I have no idea of the opinion of your current owners, but I would be willing to bet that they wouldn't dismiss out of hand any alliance with LW if they thought it were beneficial to the club or themselves, a decision that would be made by the owners of OUFC and LW and not one that you or I would have much influence on Finally, if the Water Eaton plan has any legs, our owners aren't going to want to do a deal with LW because part of the plan, as I understand it, is to flog the ground for development. Better hope Lenagan isn't part of Oufc then as he said at the AGM that the plan was ( if we move to WE ) was to take LW with us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 5:22:29 GMT
Finally, if the Water Eaton plan has any legs, our owners aren't going to want to do a deal with LW because part of the plan, as I understand it, is to flog the ground for development. Better hope Lenagan isn't part of Oufc then as he said at the AGM that the plan was ( if we move to WE ) was to take LW with us. Lenagans credibility on the ground is shot
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Post by Colin B on Sept 30, 2014 6:36:29 GMT
Better hope Lenagan isn't part of Oufc then as he said at the AGM that the plan was ( if we move to WE ) was to take LW with us. Lenagans credibility on the ground is shot Lenagan's credibility on all things OUFC is shot.
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Post by Colin B on Sept 30, 2014 6:40:59 GMT
The term perceived threat, may or may not, have any validity, but London Welsh are concentrating on their own market and opportunities within Oxford, opportunities that OUFC have had at their own disposal, unrivalled for god knows how long. LW are not intending nor trying to muscle in on anyone's territory. You may be right that there is limited market or sponsorship, but as I said , plenty of previous opportunity to have sewn that up. There is definitely a perceived threat from some OUFC supporters, point of view, one which your previous owner didn't acknowledge. I have no idea of the opinion of your current owners, but I would be willing to bet that they wouldn't dismiss out of hand any alliance with LW if they thought it were beneficial to the club or themselves, a decision that would be made by the owners of OUFC and LW and not one that you or I would have much influence on That's a joke. Of course you are. Your owners have sought to bring the rugby club to Oxford because they see a market here. If it was just about the stadium you wouldn't have moved because such fans as you had all fitted into your old ground. And if you couldn't play there because of league rules, but weren't interested in expanding your fanbase and interests, then you surely wouldn't have come all the way out to Oxford to play in a prem-standard stadium. Don't patronise us. For all the reasons you've listed surrounding missed opportunities and miss-management, OUFC haven't taken advantage of the market that exists in Oxon properly. But your lot are very keen to do so, and we will be the losers if you get that strategy right. I think your 'you missed your chance so you can't moan when someone else comes in and takes it' attitude, (which is the undertone of your last couple of posts,) is far closer to the attitude of your owners than you might like openly to suggest. I struggle to see, how any kind of alliance would be mutually beneficial anyway. We might buy the stadium together but frankly its a dump, and the one thing that might make it less of a dump would be if we owned it and could do what we liked with it. We can kiss goodbye to that if we went into joint ownership with you. Perhaps we could work together to improve the overall experience but as I said above, its been sh!t for us for years, so when we don't really want you around, why should we help you get something we have had a right to for over a decade and never got? Finally, if the Water Eaton plan has any legs, our owners aren't going to want to do a deal with LW because part of the plan, as I understand it, is to flog the ground for development and you aren't going to want that. Nor are your owners going to want to own the ground outright (buying out OUFC's half stake after a joint bid) because its a massive liability should you again fail to retain your prem status, or the financial plug is pulled by whoever your backers are. That's a very good post LG and I agree with pretty much every word. This chappers character seems to reflect London Welsh's attitude with his arrogant, dismissive, and patronising attitude towards Oxford United and it's fans. I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them!
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Post by saddletramp on Sept 30, 2014 6:58:40 GMT
They will get relegated (again), crowds will be down to a couple of hundred (again), and if they don't win promotion next season egg chasing in Oxford will wither and die. With all these new signings,their next balance sheet should be interesting.
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Post by Junior on Sept 30, 2014 7:19:04 GMT
Wouldn't be so sure Saddletramp. I'm sure ( correct me if I'm wrong ) only one team goes down. So on present from its a shoutout between LW and Newcastle who are equally, if not worse than LW. They both the one point. Big game when they play each other in a few weeks.
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Post by ox1yellow on Sept 30, 2014 7:51:39 GMT
I just don't get the need to build up a 'them and us' culture. There are plenty of towns and cities around the UK that sustain football and rugby clubs, hell there are even towns and cities that sustain two football clubs!
I am a football fan and I do not follow rugby. I've been to one LW game, it was ok, but I'm just not into the sport enough to go regularly. Reading the endless posts on this topic just makes me embarrassed by some of the attitudes that people have. To me the argument just seems petty.
Why the hell can't Oxfordshire sustain two professional sports clubs? Why can't LW go into the local community and build a fan base (an area we could definitely have stepped up at any point in the past)? In the day and age of sporting franchises etc. why should LW make apologies for moving to Oxford?
We need to focus on building a footballing fan base at junior level and allow LW to get on and build a rugby fan base. I imagine there are enough kids in Oxfordshire to sustain both and from my own experience, kids tend to be one or the other from an early age based on the sport they prefer to play. To coin a phrase, surely we could be 'better together'. I do not mean merging, I simply mean combining our efforts to promote sport in Oxfordshire, attract more people back to watching live sport and developing facilities together.
The one and only issue that I have is the quality of the playing surface and surely any anger about that should be directed towards stadco for their poor maintenance rather than LW who, at the end of the day, have simply been offered a place to play and have accepted that offer.
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Post by Colin B on Sept 30, 2014 13:06:38 GMT
I just don't get the need to build up a 'them and us' culture. There are plenty of towns and cities around the UK that sustain football and rugby clubs, hell there are even towns and cities that sustain two football clubs! I am a football fan and I do not follow rugby. I've been to one LW game, it was ok, but I'm just not into the sport enough to go regularly. Reading the endless posts on this topic just makes me embarrassed by some of the attitudes that people have. To me the argument just seems petty. Why the hell can't Oxfordshire sustain two professional sports clubs? Why can't LW go into the local community and build a fan base (an area we could definitely have stepped up at any point in the past)? In the day and age of sporting franchises etc. why should LW make apologies for moving to Oxford? We need to focus on building a footballing fan base at junior level and allow LW to get on and build a rugby fan base. I imagine there are enough kids in Oxfordshire to sustain both and from my own experience, kids tend to be one or the other from an early age based on the sport they prefer to play. To coin a phrase, surely we could be 'better together'. I do not mean merging, I simply mean combining our efforts to promote sport in Oxfordshire, attract more people back to watching live sport and developing facilities together. The one and only issue that I have is the quality of the playing surface and surely any anger about that should be directed towards stadco for their poor maintenance rather than LW who, at the end of the day, have simply been offered a place to play and have accepted that offer. I take as I find. And I find LW's attitude (and some of the LW posters on here) to be invasive, patronising and not in any way inclined to make me feel like "partnering" with them, or giving them the benefit of the doubt as to their intentions.
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Post by chappers on Sept 30, 2014 21:19:46 GMT
I just don't get the need to build up a 'them and us' culture. There are plenty of towns and cities around the UK that sustain football and rugby clubs, hell there are even towns and cities that sustain two football clubs! I am a football fan and I do not follow rugby. I've been to one LW game, it was ok, but I'm just not into the sport enough to go regularly. Reading the endless posts on this topic just makes me embarrassed by some of the attitudes that people have. To me the argument just seems petty. Why the hell can't Oxfordshire sustain two professional sports clubs? Why can't LW go into the local community and build a fan base (an area we could definitely have stepped up at any point in the past)? In the day and age of sporting franchises etc. why should LW make apologies for moving to Oxford? We need to focus on building a footballing fan base at junior level and allow LW to get on and build a rugby fan base. I imagine there are enough kids in Oxfordshire to sustain both and from my own experience, kids tend to be one or the other from an early age based on the sport they prefer to play. To coin a phrase, surely we could be 'better together'. I do not mean merging, I simply mean combining our efforts to promote sport in Oxfordshire, attract more people back to watching live sport and developing facilities together. The one and only issue that I have is the quality of the playing surface and surely any anger about that should be directed towards stadco for their poor maintenance rather than LW who, at the end of the day, have simply been offered a place to play and have accepted that offer. Well said... Some people on here will only ever be happy with one outcome and that is only OUFC in town even if that is to the detriment of their own club, it's just a black and white thing as far as they are concerned. They forget that from day one they weren't happy about the ground share and maybe that is a fair attitude, but as I have mentioned before making statements like f*ck off egg chasers and the likes is far more antagonistic than anything that anyone in support of LW has ever posted on here. petty and childish springs to mind. As for taking opportunities in the City, if OUFC really want to put their minds to it they have the biggest advantage going for them possible.. they play the more popular sport by far. If you fear that another sport can tread on your toes, it's time to start looking inwards and as I said previously it's your opinion, not necessarily that of either club. One point on which I agree is that it's unlikely LW would have either the inclination or wherewithal to purchase the Kassam on their own anytime soon. Professional rugby is still in it's infancy and only a couple of the clubs even in the prem survive, without financial benefactors, so yes LW are in a fragile situation, but that doesn't detract from the fact that both clubs are free to reach out to their potential fanbases as they wish. From a personal point of view, those of you that think I have some sort of desire to see the success of LW to the detriment of OUFC, you couldn't be further from the truth, I have lived in Oxford all my life, have followed OUFC on and off home and away over many years, probably went to my first Oxford game around the same time as my first LW game and that was probably before some people posting on here were born. My point has always been based around the question as to why some people can't see how having two professional sports teams in the City can't be seen as plus and a positive thing for Oxford
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Post by Lone Gunman on Oct 1, 2014 0:27:36 GMT
I just don't get the need to build up a 'them and us' culture. There are plenty of towns and cities around the UK that sustain football and rugby clubs, hell there are even towns and cities that sustain two football clubs! I am a football fan and I do not follow rugby. I've been to one LW game, it was ok, but I'm just not into the sport enough to go regularly. Reading the endless posts on this topic just makes me embarrassed by some of the attitudes that people have. To me the argument just seems petty. Why the hell can't Oxfordshire sustain two professional sports clubs? Why can't LW go into the local community and build a fan base (an area we could definitely have stepped up at any point in the past)? In the day and age of sporting franchises etc. why should LW make apologies for moving to Oxford? We need to focus on building a footballing fan base at junior level and allow LW to get on and build a rugby fan base. I imagine there are enough kids in Oxfordshire to sustain both and from my own experience, kids tend to be one or the other from an early age based on the sport they prefer to play. To coin a phrase, surely we could be 'better together'. I do not mean merging, I simply mean combining our efforts to promote sport in Oxfordshire, attract more people back to watching live sport and developing facilities together. The one and only issue that I have is the quality of the playing surface and surely any anger about that should be directed towards stadco for their poor maintenance rather than LW who, at the end of the day, have simply been offered a place to play and have accepted that offer. Well said... Some people on here will only ever be happy with one outcome and that is only OUFC in town even if that is to the detriment of their own club, it's just a black and white thing as far as they are concerned. They forget that from day one they weren't happy about the ground share and maybe that is a fair attitude, but as I have mentioned before making statements like f*ck off egg chasers and the likes is far more antagonistic than anything that anyone in support of LW has ever posted on here. petty and childish springs to mind. As for taking opportunities in the City, if OUFC really want to put their minds to it they have the biggest advantage going for them possible.. they play the more popular sport by far. If you fear that another sport can tread on your toes, it's time to start looking inwards and as I said previously it's your opinion, not necessarily that of either club. One point on which I agree is that it's unlikely LW would have either the inclination or wherewithal to purchase the Kassam on their own anytime soon. Professional rugby is still in it's infancy and only a couple of the clubs even in the prem survive, without financial benefactors, so yes LW are in a fragile situation, but that doesn't detract from the fact that both clubs are free to reach out to their potential fanbases as they wish. From a personal point of view, those of you that think I have some sort of desire to see the success of LW to the detriment of OUFC, you couldn't be further from the truth, I have lived in Oxford all my life, have followed OUFC on and off home and away over many years, probably went to my first Oxford game around the same time as my first LW game and that was probably before some people posting on here were born. My point has always been based around the question as to why some people can't see how having two professional sports teams in the City can't be seen as plus and a positive thing for Oxford I think people would be more accepting of two professional sports teams in Oxford if one of them wasn't from London.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 4:34:32 GMT
WI think people would be more accepting of two professional sports teams in Oxford if one of them wasn't from London. Nail on the head.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 5:44:49 GMT
MK Dons of rugby by relocating with a hint of Man City by virtue if the funding.
Crass and lacking in class
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Post by Colin B on Oct 1, 2014 6:47:40 GMT
MK Dons of rugby by relocating with a hint of Man City by virtue if the funding. Crass and lacking in class That could apply to the club or some of their fans that post on here........ And they wonder why they're not welcome?
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Post by Junior on Oct 1, 2014 7:18:53 GMT
MK Dons of rugby by relocating with a hint of Man City by virtue if the funding. Crass and lacking in class In rugby it's quite common for teams to relocate to towns or city's in order for them to grow as a club. Something LW are doing. Crowds may appear low in comparison to football ( although not much difference of late ) Wasps at Wycombe, London Irish at Reading. Look at this for an example of the off field and community work LW are doing. www.premiershiprugby.com/mobile/news/33295.php
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 9:56:21 GMT
They are different Junior. They are in their top-flight. If we were in the equivalent, do you not think we might do a little better?
Still, I bet Chinnor and Henley are over the moon that a cuckoo has landed in their county. Must be lovely for them to hear their county's radio station provide constant coverage and publicity to a London side. They probably get a real warm sense of community from that, despite doing a great deal themselves to bring their sport to as many young people as their resources have allowed.
Wrap it up how you like, but they don't belong here.
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Post by chappers on Oct 1, 2014 18:51:34 GMT
MK Dons of rugby by relocating with a hint of Man City by virtue if the funding. Crass and lacking in class That could apply to the club or some of their fans that post on here........ And they wonder why they're not welcome? None of the LW fans on here have resorted to slagging off individuals or your club and as for lack of class I quote from your second post on the subject of LW before they even moved to Oxford "f*cking hate egg chasing and the middle class pompous t*ats who watch it"
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Post by chappers on Oct 1, 2014 19:03:28 GMT
They are different Junior. They are in their top-flight. If we were in the equivalent, do you not think we might do a little better? Still, I bet Chinnor and Henley are over the moon that a cuckoo has landed in their county. Must be lovely for them to hear their county's radio station provide constant coverage and publicity to a London side. They probably get a real warm sense of community from that, despite doing a great deal themselves to bring their sport to as many young people as their resources have allowed. Wrap it up how you like, but they don't belong here. Interesting points there and one which I touched on previously, football of comparative levels will always score over rugby, that's always been the case. Interesting about the local clubs, Henley have been on board from day one, but Chinnor were a bit more guarded, until they heard what was on offer and how they might benefit. LW have assigned two players as liaison to each of the Oxfordshire clubs and they can use those players for a number of events as they please whether it be publicity or for a training event, those clubs also have cash incentives to support LW. For example Abingdon rugby club last week earned themselves over £800 in cashback from ticket sales for last weeks game against Gloucester. Some clubs have been as you mentioned, been concerned that LW would take some fans from their attendances and a decision which has benefits to all has been taken that LW will predominantly play their games on a Sunday to avoid the clash. As for attracting young people to their clubs, LW hold many events with those clubs to promote the game and those young people who play are still involved through their local club, only one side play in Oxford and that's the 1st XV
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Post by Colin B on Oct 1, 2014 20:35:40 GMT
That could apply to the club or some of their fans that post on here........ And they wonder why they're not welcome? None of the LW fans on here have resorted to slagging off individuals or your club and as for lack of class I quote from your second post on the subject of LW before they even moved to Oxford "f*cking hate egg chasing and the middle class pompous t*ats who watch it" You really spent all that time looking back through old posts to find that? How very sad.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Oct 1, 2014 21:05:38 GMT
Isn't there only 2 LW fans on here, plus a floating Junior?
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Post by rollsy on Oct 3, 2014 20:05:26 GMT
Finally, if the Water Eaton plan has any legs, our owners aren't going to want to do a deal with LW because part of the plan, as I understand it, is to flog the ground for development. Better hope Lenagan isn't part of Oufc then as he said at the AGM that the plan was ( if we move to WE ) was to take LW with us. Mark Ashton said in an interview, if we own a stadium. He doesn't want to share it with rugby, as at his previous clubs he's found it's impossible to get a good pitch when you do and with the football we want to play we need a good pitch. I think IL has f*ck all to do with anything to do with OUFC, let alone trying to find a new stadium.
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Post by Junior on Oct 3, 2014 20:17:06 GMT
I hope that's true rollsy. I only said that about WE and Lenagan because of the way Lenagan was at the AGM.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 22:01:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 18:33:30 GMT
Interesting to see that Wasps are in negotiations with the owners of the Ricoh to buy 90% of that stadium and move to play in Coventry.
Poor Coventry. Just back and now another predatory rugby club spots an opportunity to feast upon their misfortune.
Sport of Gentleman? I think not.
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Post by mariokempes on Oct 9, 2014 7:04:30 GMT
With Wasps moving to Coventry at the end of the year maybe LW will consider a move to Wycombe next season.
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Post by bicesterox on Oct 9, 2014 7:16:49 GMT
With Wasps moving to Coventry at the end of the year maybe LW will consider a move to Wycombe next season. That's put it a bit politer than I did of the Coventry at the Ricoh thread
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