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Post by ZeroTheHero on Sept 17, 2017 13:56:16 GMT
Don't think GvK is all that. Doesn't close down or track back and isn't capable of playing up front alone. Amazing debut goal but besides that I've been largely unimpressed. We have multiple players who are technically gifted but can still put the work in, so you can't say that work rate and teamwork has to suffer in return for the odd moment of brilliance. To me he's just a bit too much like that kid in the playground who thinks he's amazing and doesn't want to do anything but stand up front and shoot. Well I sort of agree. He won't track back, that's for sure. Here's his record in terms of minutes played and goal threat. 11 minutes (scored), 23 minutes, whole game (scored), 18 minutes, 31 minutes, 28 minutes (goal scored after his shot was parried), 57 minutes. I'd say two goals and a direct 'assist' is OK for that amount of time on the pitch (about three games in total). From what we have seen, only Obika is anywhere near capable of playing as a lone striker. Thomas isn't and Van Kessel very certainly isn't, and as we feared both Thomas and Obika are already picking up injuries. Agon Mehmeti is fast becoming my favourite striker GvK does have some pace, gets in decent forward positions, is prepared to shoot and adds something different. Whether that's enough remains to be seen.
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Post by littlemore on Sept 17, 2017 14:36:17 GMT
Good out wide not up top in my opinion. Doesn't track back and leaves us exposed defensively. He was strolling and trotting about at Scunthorpe when they doubled up down his side, cut in and struck the winner. He could run, especially when he's only come on for the last 30 minutes, but chooses not to. That isn't good enough and there's no excuse for not tracking back. If he can't do that then he can't be classed as good in any position. He leaves us very exposed when literally just running would make him useful. True but that I think he can learn however up top I do not think he can in our formation. Think it's early to make a complete judgment yet as he really only has made sub appearances so far and yet to settle completely. Can always see him as someone who will frustrate fans.
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Post by brassmonkey on Sept 17, 2017 15:05:01 GMT
I don't blame gvk. He is a left winger. I blame pep for going in to the season without a player that can play up top. Obika can but he is injury prone
Sent from my SM-G930F using proboards
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Post by Toeby on Sept 17, 2017 16:28:45 GMT
I reckon Van Kessel would've flourished out wide for Blackpool yesterday where he would've been able to run into space. He's lightning quick and quite agile, so he can shift the ball well and put a defender on the wrong foot (like his goal against Pompey) but he's no lone striker/target man. He does his best work facing the opposition, not facing his own goal.
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Post by socrates on Sept 19, 2017 20:10:26 GMT
Hope I am wrong but I have a sneaking, horrible, feeling that come the end of the season the likelihood of us paying ANY money to sign GVK permanently will be about as remote as Marvin Johnson saying 'I've made a mistake...can I come back and play for yous'
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Post by plonker on Sept 19, 2017 20:44:46 GMT
I like to think I'm a bit of an optimist but I would be surprised if the club pays the agreed upon fee. Maybe the club will attempt to renegotiate at the end of the season? By that time his partner and child will be here - if they aren't already - so assuming they are happy in the country, they will want to stay here, which could be in our favour.
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Post by grenobleroad on Sept 19, 2017 20:59:04 GMT
I like to think I'm a bit of an optimist but I would be surprised if the club pays the agreed upon fee. Maybe the club will attempt to renegotiate at the end of the season? By that time his partner and child will be here - if they aren't already - so assuming they are happy in the country, they will want to stay here, which could be in our favour. Could turn out to be a steal. Long old season left.
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Post by williammuir (banned) on Sept 19, 2017 21:01:57 GMT
I like to think I'm a bit of an optimist but I would be surprised if the club pays the agreed upon fee. Maybe the club will attempt to renegotiate at the end of the season? By that time his partner and child will be here - if they aren't already - so assuming they are happy in the country, they will want to stay here, which could be in our favour. Could turn out to be a steal. Long old season left. i'd prefer promoting our own in Napa etc
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Post by grenobleroad on Sept 19, 2017 21:02:47 GMT
Could turn out to be a steal. Long old season left. i'd prefer promoting our own in Napa etc Why can't we do both?
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Post by williammuir (banned) on Sept 19, 2017 21:04:39 GMT
i'd prefer promoting our own in Napa etc Why can't we do both? MONEY.
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Post by oxfordboy on Sept 19, 2017 21:17:19 GMT
Yeah we can spend 800k on Gino but that extra £400 a week on Napa may push us over the edge in terms of our budget
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Post by williammuir (banned) on Sept 19, 2017 21:29:00 GMT
Yeah we can spend 800k on Gino but that extra £400 a week on Napa may push us over the edge in terms of our budget thats not what I'm trying to say what I'm saying is if you have two players doing the same job its is stupid paying 800 odd grand for a player when someone does the job for a quarter or less of the price
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Post by yellows321 on Sept 19, 2017 22:00:18 GMT
Quick question off topic- what happened to Narsingh? Thought he looked q tasty
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Post by oxfordboy on Sept 19, 2017 23:11:58 GMT
Yeah we can spend 800k on Gino but that extra £400 a week on Napa may push us over the edge in terms of our budget thats not what I'm trying to say what I'm saying is if you have two players doing the same job its is stupid paying 800 odd grand for a player when someone does the job for a quarter or less of the price Gino may look a bit uncouth at times, but he's scored 2 in 4 in the league And has looked dangerous when coming off the bench, getting rid of him and replacing him with an 18 year old with a few minutes of pro football under his belt is pure stupidity
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Post by sideoftheleft on Sept 19, 2017 23:23:23 GMT
Yeah we can spend 800k on Gino but that extra £400 a week on Napa may push us over the edge in terms of our budget From what I’ve seen of napa I think he has a very bright future.
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Post by oxfordboy on Sept 20, 2017 0:22:32 GMT
Yeah we can spend 800k on Gino but that extra £400 a week on Napa may push us over the edge in terms of our budget From what I’ve seen of napa I think he has a very bright future. We all said the same of Roberts and Ashby, neither ended up being anything more than bench fillers in league 2, that's not to say Napa can't break through, he does look talented, but he's nowhere near ready of coming in to a promotion chasing League 1 side
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Post by berliner on Sept 20, 2017 6:44:55 GMT
Quick question off topic- what happened to Narsingh? Thought he looked q tasty Went back to Holland and is now playing for the Cambuur reserve team.
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Post by littlemore on Sept 20, 2017 7:43:04 GMT
thats not what I'm trying to say what I'm saying is if you have two players doing the same job its is stupid paying 800 odd grand for a player when someone does the job for a quarter or less of the price Gino may look a bit uncouth at times, but he's scored 2 in 4 in the league And has looked dangerous when coming off the bench, getting rid of him and replacing him with an 18 year old with a few minutes of pro football under his belt is pure stupidity 2 in 7 appearances in the league. Yes some are short sub appearances but all count.
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Post by littlemore on Sept 20, 2017 7:49:41 GMT
From what I’ve seen of napa I think he has a very bright future. We all said the same of Roberts and Ashby, neither ended up being anything more than bench fillers in league 2, that's not to say Napa can't break through, he does look talented, but he's nowhere near ready of coming in to a promotion chasing League 1 side Season away in non league will do him good for development. Some players like Carroll are already ready physically at 18 but most need some experience before playing league football. Napa has got the key attributes to be a good winger and likely to be considered next season after learning mens football this year.
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Post by charliesghost on Sept 20, 2017 8:03:35 GMT
From what I’ve seen of napa I think he has a very bright future. We all said the same of Roberts and Ashby, neither ended up being anything more than bench fillers in league 2, that's not to say Napa can't break through, he does look talented, but he's nowhere near ready of coming in to a promotion chasing League 1 side It's really wonderful to see the same argument used against Callum, Long and Carroll being rolled out again. Fwiw I think that Pep' s views on using youth are closer to wilders than Appletons so you will look correct, even if you weren't!
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Post by oxfordboy on Sept 20, 2017 8:16:48 GMT
We all said the same of Roberts and Ashby, neither ended up being anything more than bench fillers in league 2, that's not to say Napa can't break through, he does look talented, but he's nowhere near ready of coming in to a promotion chasing League 1 side It's really wonderful to see the same argument used against Callum, Long and Carroll being rolled out again. Fwiw I think that Pep' s views on using youth are closer to wilders than Appletons so you will look correct, even if you weren't! What argument used against them? That they weren't ready? There's a big difference between giving a young player some minutes and shipping out a first teamer to give a complete novice minutes when we're looking to get promoted If we did do that anyway you'd be on here with your passive aggressive bollocks about Darryl not spending money and are we going to spend money to replace him
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Post by oxfordboy on Sept 20, 2017 8:18:12 GMT
Gino may look a bit uncouth at times, but he's scored 2 in 4 in the league And has looked dangerous when coming off the bench, getting rid of him and replacing him with an 18 year old with a few minutes of pro football under his belt is pure stupidity 2 in 7 appearances in the league. Yes some are short sub appearances but all count. The stats I looked at will have been out of date, should have known he'd played more than 4 anyway, my bad, doesn't really change my point though
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Post by socrates on Sept 20, 2017 12:30:19 GMT
Ah the yoof debate
They play if they are good enough
If they are not, then they don't play.
That has been the case with Appleton and Wilder btw. Ashby a good example for the former.
Whatever happened to Bevans, Shama, Marsh, Lynn etc? Probably a good call not to play them in the end
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Post by Gary Baldi on Sept 20, 2017 12:56:40 GMT
Long has spent much of the last 18 months injured or coming back from an injury, so would not have been able to contribute much to the team in that time. Not one to blame the last manager for, who it seemed rated him.
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Post by charliesghost on Sept 20, 2017 16:14:59 GMT
Ah the yoof debate They play if they are good enough If they are not, then they don't play. That has been the case with Appleton and Wilder btw. Ashby a good example for the former. Whatever happened to Bevans, Shama, Marsh, Lynn etc? Probably a good call not to play them in the end There are quite a few oufc youngsters washing around the football league now who chippy wouldn't play. I remember him furiously declaring that Callum wouldn't make it and that long had no chance. MApp was the first manager since Horton to really, actively enjoy giving young playets a chance (though I remember Denis Smith giving Bob Ford a debut at the age if about 17 or something). Compare and contrast with Ian Atkins selling Dean Whitehead almost straight from our bench to the Premier League. To say that managerial inclination has nothing to do with it is demonstrably untrue. Mourinho palpably doesn't like starting with anyone 'unproven.' Whereas Pochettino will chuck them in.
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Post by shaunrice on Sept 24, 2017 13:49:03 GMT
Was awful yesterday. Absolutely awful! I saw him in Sainsbury’s after the game with his Mrs (very nice) and I guess his or her dad. I couldn’t even bring myself to go and shake his hand and wish him well! I’ve seen him play as a lone striker twice now and can safely say he should never play there again.
Is there something wrong with his inner ear? He seems to have a balance problem because he’s always falling over. I’ve never seen a player spend so much time on the floor.
Every ball in the air he challenges for he fouls his man rather than try to win the ball. Pushing into them giving away fouls when could simply jump for the ball!
Finally and the most unforgivable is his total lack of effort. Had he worked his socks of in the dying seconds of the Bradford match I’m sure we’d have taken all three points. Terrible work rate. Sometimes looks like he can he can’t be bothered.
£900k you must be joking. I wouldn’t pay £9.
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Post by Beav on Sept 24, 2017 14:23:11 GMT
Was awful yesterday. Absolutely awful! I saw him in Sainsbury’s after the game with his Mrs (very nice) and I guess his or her dad. I couldn’t even bring myself to go and shake his hand and wish him well! I’ve seen him play as a lone striker twice now and can safely say he should never play there again. Is there something wrong with his inner ear? He seems to have a balance problem because he’s always falling over. I’ve never seen a player spend so much time on the floor. Every ball in the air he challenges for he fouls his man rather than try to win the ball. Pushing into them giving away fouls when could simply jump for the ball! Finally and the most unforgivable is his total lack of effort. Had he worked his socks of in the dying seconds of the Bradford match I’m sure we’d have taken all three points. Terrible work rate. Sometimes looks like he can he can’t be bothered. £900k you must be joking. I wouldn’t pay £9. You'll see van Kessel doesn't challenge for the ball, he'll back into and challenge the man. This causes A) he'll give away a free kick B) the defender steps backwards and he just falls over as he's nothing to back into He clearly has a different attitude to off-the-ball work which I'm trying not to judge him on. Doesn't help at all when it goes alongside a poor performance. Gave the ball away with his first touch and it just kept on going from there.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 24, 2017 14:26:10 GMT
Was awful yesterday. Absolutely awful! I saw him in Sainsbury’s after the game with his Mrs (very nice) and I guess his or her dad. I couldn’t even bring myself to go and shake his hand and wish him well! I’ve seen him play as a lone striker twice now and can safely say he should never play there again. Is there something wrong with his inner ear? He seems to have a balance problem because he’s always falling over. I’ve never seen a player spend so much time on the floor. Every ball in the air he challenges for he fouls his man rather than try to win the ball. Pushing into them giving away fouls when could simply jump for the ball! Finally and the most unforgivable is his total lack of effort. Had he worked his socks of in the dying seconds of the Bradford match I’m sure we’d have taken all three points. Terrible work rate. Sometimes looks like he can he can’t be bothered. £900k you must be joking. I wouldn’t pay £9. You'll see van Kessel doesn't challenge for the ball, he'll back into and challenge the man. This causes A) he'll give away a free kick B) the defender steps backwards and he just falls over as he's nothing to back into He clearly has a different attitude to off-the-ball work which I'm trying not to judge him on. Doesn't help at all when it goes alongside a poor performance. Gave the ball away with his first touch and it just kept on going from there. What’s strange is that pretty much also describes Thomas. Which is why we look so much less effective when obika is out
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Post by Beav on Sept 24, 2017 14:56:20 GMT
You'll see van Kessel doesn't challenge for the ball, he'll back into and challenge the man. This causes A) he'll give away a free kick B) the defender steps backwards and he just falls over as he's nothing to back into He clearly has a different attitude to off-the-ball work which I'm trying not to judge him on. Doesn't help at all when it goes alongside a poor performance. Gave the ball away with his first touch and it just kept on going from there. What’s strange is that pretty much also describes Thomas. Which is why we look so much less effective when obika is out True but I'd argue Thomas is a lot more effective than vK. Thomas has played his August though, so we'll probably have to wait till next August to see him again.
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Post by middlebartonyellow on Sept 24, 2017 15:21:38 GMT
He is a lazy bastard.
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