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Post by sihath on Jan 3, 2016 10:30:56 GMT
. It's very hard to generate an atmosphere without say a 9K+ crowd, so therefore I can see why it's hard to let the issue go. I'm not sure you're right, take that 1350 and put them in the North Stand.... Put 150/200 of the singers from the East Stand in the top left hand corner of the SSU for a game and see what difference that makes to the atmosphere. The roof in the East Stand is so high up that it's difficult to generate much noise unless it's full. The lower roof and side of the stand in that corner of the SSU would help to amplify any noise generated. What do others think?
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Post by zakstratton on Jan 3, 2016 10:31:54 GMT
. It's very hard to generate an atmosphere without say a 9K+ crowd, so therefore I can see why it's hard to let the issue go. I'm not sure you're right, take that 1350 and put them in the North Stand.... I agree with you there, however my point being very rarely does the north stand look full..
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Post by MJB on Jan 3, 2016 10:32:43 GMT
That stray apostrophe in the thread title is making me uneasy.
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Post by holdsteady on Jan 3, 2016 10:47:55 GMT
At the moment I am favouring the Kassam for Sunday, 3 stands and a pitch being better than no stands and no pitch.
Although let's see those poncey prem players score against without any goals, guaranteed replay.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 3, 2016 10:50:24 GMT
That stray apostrophe in the thread title is making me uneasy. Where would u like me to stick it ? it gone u know language is not my strong point, was just trying to do everyone a favour with roofe's thread getting taken over
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 10:50:26 GMT
My first seat in the North Stand on Sunday...hopefully it's a good day out
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Post by rosieburns on Jan 3, 2016 10:54:23 GMT
At the moment I am favouring the Kassam for Sunday, 3 stands and a pitch being better than no stands and no pitch. Although let's see those poncey prem players score against without any goals, guaranteed replay. But an amazing amount of green fields to bring there sheep
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Post by holdsteady on Jan 3, 2016 11:03:59 GMT
At the moment I am favouring the Kassam for Sunday, 3 stands and a pitch being better than no stands and no pitch. Although let's see those poncey prem players score against without any goals, guaranteed replay. But an amazing amount of green fields to bring there sheep The non silence of the lambs.
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Post by MJB on Jan 3, 2016 11:11:32 GMT
That stray apostrophe in the thread title is making me uneasy. Where would u like me to stick it ? it gone u know language is not my strong point, was just trying to do everyone a favour with roofe's thread getting taken over It's a tough life here in Pedants(') Corner.
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Post by charliesghost on Jan 4, 2016 0:17:55 GMT
And nowhere in my post have I criticised anyone's view! That's clear and also U haven't turned to personal insults. From an ex supporters trust and fan point of view, and leaving aside WE for a min. What is ur view on the kassam, is it still a totally workable long term plan, if not a dream ticket. ? You're one-eyed and biased. My 'personal' post was in reaction to the first 'personal' post on the thread. By someone who almost never posts anything other than personal insults. But do you take him to task for them? Er no. Because you share his world view. Whereas you come over all sanctimonious the moment that someone you disagree with gives a little back to the school yard bully. Either slate londonroader and then me for biting back, or don't bother criticising anyone for personal posts. Can you grasp this basic sentiment? In answer to your question, Mark and I started out with the presumption that the Kassam was the best option. As we started to research the traffic flow and parking situations, not to mention FK's development plans, we came to the view that it is actually potentially a very expensive poison pill. Note the words 'we came to the view' and 'potentially'. That is me stating quite clearly that it is a subjective opinion. It is not fact. Darryl can take an opposing view without being 'wrong'. For what it's worth, I think that it is always far harder to do a reasonable deal with Firoz to buy the stadium than to do a deal to walk away from our tenancy. Kelvin tried it; Ian Lenagan tried it; now Darryl says that he is trying it. All with the best intentions. But, thus far, all with the same result. Because, in my view, the economics do not match for both sides. I can see that if it all comes right (keep all the current parking, , than where 4th stand would lie; do deal with Science Park for parking; no FK development; non-ruinous price, enabling spend on big fourth stand; new access road at non-ruinous price; new railway station 15 mins away; academy over the road despite SODC opposition) - if all that comes right in the next two years, then I would concede that it had been the right thing to do. And would be deliriously happy to conede as much. But that is a lot of 'ifs' - many of them totally out of our control and many of them more subject to delay than a simple yes/no at Water Eaton. Which we would get within 12 months.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 4, 2016 6:43:08 GMT
See , a sensible post that actually makes sense. I've said to u before I'm not going to get drawn into sides of name calling and such between u and others, if they share my view of things that's up to them I've never attacked u in anything more than a joking friendly way, with a bit of teasing here and there. Why did I pick u up and not London roader, because u were the one belittling and having a go at me personally for not knowing as much about something that you admit u have spent a lot of time working on. U say every area im wide of the mark and it's scary where I'm getting it from, well that will be from the club, and from the press. Where they have said they can make the ground work, where they have said they can get a training ground opposite . If that's not correct fine. That's not "delusion" you can correct me, but instead u do the exact thing u moan that others are doing to u. The second half of ur last post is the best thing u have posted for ages. Could u maybe squeeze in one more answer to a question Ive asked a couple of times. Does it not benefit Oufc to buy the kassam, even if it's only in the short term. To then use as an asset to fund the new ground. It wouldn't be wasting money as u would get that value back, and save on rent, we would then be in our own home and able to look into watereaton .
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Post by londonroader on Jan 4, 2016 8:22:52 GMT
That's clear and also U haven't turned to personal insults. From an ex supporters trust and fan point of view, and leaving aside WE for a min. What is ur view on the kassam, is it still a totally workable long term plan, if not a dream ticket. ? You're one-eyed and biased. My 'personal' post was in reaction to the first 'personal' post on the thread. By someone who almost never posts anything other than personal insults. But do you take him to task for them? Er no. Because you share his world view. Whereas you come over all sanctimonious the moment that someone you disagree with gives a little back to the school yard bully. Either slate londonroader and then me for biting back, or don't bother criticising anyone for personal posts. Can you grasp this basic sentiment? In answer to your question, Mark and I started out with the presumption that the Kassam was the best option. As we started to research the traffic flow and parking situations, not to mention FK's development plans, we came to the view that it is actually potentially a very expensive poison pill. Note the words 'we came to the view' and 'potentially'. That is me stating quite clearly that it is a subjective opinion. It is not fact. Darryl can take an opposing view without being 'wrong'. For what it's worth, I think that it is always far harder to do a reasonable deal with Firoz to buy the stadium than to do a deal to walk away from our tenancy. Kelvin tried it; Ian Lenagan tried it; now Darryl says that he is trying it. All with the best intentions. But, thus far, all with the same result. Because, in my view, the economics do not match for both sides. I can see that if it all comes right (keep all the current parking, , than where 4th stand would lie; do deal with Science Park for parking; no FK development; non-ruinous price, enabling spend on big fourth stand; new access road at non-ruinous price; new railway station 15 mins away; academy over the road despite SODC opposition) - if all that comes right in the next two years, then I would concede that it had been the right thing to do. And would be deliriously happy to conede as much. But that is a lot of 'ifs' - many of them totally out of our control and many of them more subject to delay than a simple yes/no at Water Eaton. Which we would get within 12 months. So I have over 4700 posts of personal insults, you really are not with reality chap are you enjoying the wine too much. Why have you not taken this plan to the club? is it possible that it doesn't fit in with their current plans for the future and now you are stamping your feet demanding attention, I struggle to see why you have to try and canvas opinion on here to justify this plan when in reality everything starts and stops at the club, are you hoping the groundswell of approval on this forum will tip the balance and make the club sit up and listen to you, there are approx 200 peeps at best reading this forum but only a handfuls of posters that will stick their head above the parapet. This plan looks great as you have set it out but there are so many if's and buts to link up to make it feasible I wish you good luck with that. I try to manage my personnel and business life in private off this forum, unlike yourself who wants to be center of attention.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 9:37:36 GMT
If Kassam was able to get planning permission for Housing on the stadium site surely it would be worth a lot of money for him to buy us out of our lease. £5 million towards a new stadium in Watereaton maybe?
The Council are desperate for more housing in Oxfordshire so this could be a bargaining tool when trying to get planning permission for a New Stadium at Watereaton?
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Post by sihath on Jan 4, 2016 9:45:33 GMT
Is it possible to get outline planning permission for the Water Eaton site based on the exploratory work that has been done so far?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 10:02:31 GMT
I'm team water eaton. I'm already dreading the 3 hours of doing nothing before the game on Sunday because it's a big crowd. Hate everything about the current ground. A 4th stand, supporters bar or beer tent won't change my mind.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Jan 4, 2016 10:06:28 GMT
From the other thread:
Charlie:
"But that is a lot of 'ifs' - many of them totally out of our control and many of them more subject to delay than a simple yes/no at Water Eaton. Which we would get within 12 months."
That seems like a remarkably short timescale. Since you helped look into this, I presume this is factually correct. What about the inevitable appeals, protests etc? Getting permission to put a straightforward house extension up seems to take months! How much money would it cost to put these particular wheels in motion, so see whether the whole thing is remotely possible? Quite a bit, as you'd have to have plans drawn up, a proposal for the infrastructure?
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 4, 2016 10:33:57 GMT
I'm team water eaton. I'm already dreading the 3 hours of doing nothing before the game on Sunday because it's a big crowd. Hate everything about the current ground. A 4th stand, supporters bar or beer tent won't change my mind. Me too. The Kassam is a pig. A train station, brilliant - how many people will be able to get on a 2-carriage train that runs once an hour? Better access, excellent - move the bottleneck to the Cowley roundabout, 4th stand - so what. IMO, all the lipstick in the world won't make it work. The Kassam is a major disincentive for people wanting to attend matches, it's a 4th division prefab shitehole and it will never be anything else. I think, to some extent, the toxicity on the 'Roofe thread' derives from a generational split; people my age (57) tend to be working class (or pseudo-wc), grew up when supporting football was more, um, active, and enjoy the 'edge' as it's been called. It's not unnatural that we want to preserve what's left of those days. That's an option, stay in the Kassam and play teams like Accrington every season. If the club wants to be sustainable and grow it has to progress and I believe it simply will not at the Kassam. There's a very good post somewhere from chuckbert that talks about the decline (if such it is) in fans being due to not recruiting new supporters more than losing old ones; I think that's right, and in any case we won't get to 15,000 without attracting new supporters, from the shitty new mobie capital demographic with their prawn sandwiches and mustard cords (f*ck them). It seems self-evident that a proportion of potential fans will not become regular because we play in a 3-standed tin portaloo with no facilities in the middle of nowhere. I'm not sure how big that proportion is (and I hope Methven / Sennett's analysis is wrong because I like the tribal edge) but I think we will find out as we march on to promotion. Onward to Water Eaton!
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 4, 2016 10:37:09 GMT
From the other thread: Charlie: "But that is a lot of 'ifs' - many of them totally out of our control and many of them more subject to delay than a simple yes/no at Water Eaton. Which we would get within 12 months." That seems like a remarkably short timescale. Since you helped look into this, I presume this is factually correct. What about the inevitable appeals, protests etc? Getting permission to put a straightforward house extension up seems to take months! How much money would it cost to put these particular wheels in motion, so see whether the whole thing is remotely possible? Quite a bit, as you'd have to have plans drawn up, a proposal for the infrastructure? Good questions. I think one of the points Mr Methane raised that were shouted down on the other thread was the cost benefit analysis for the Kassam itself (which Mark Sennett seemed to affirm) that seemed (to me) to demonstrate that spending money on the Kassam was a self-defeating waste of time.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 4, 2016 10:41:56 GMT
From the other thread: Charlie: "But that is a lot of 'ifs' - many of them totally out of our control and many of them more subject to delay than a simple yes/no at Water Eaton. Which we would get within 12 months." That seems like a remarkably short timescale. Since you helped look into this, I presume this is factually correct. What about the inevitable appeals, protests etc? Getting permission to put a straightforward house extension up seems to take months! How much money would it cost to put these particular wheels in motion, so see whether the whole thing is remotely possible? Quite a bit, as you'd have to have plans drawn up, a proposal for the infrastructure? Good questions. I think one of the points Mr Methane raised that were shouted down on the other thread was the cost benefit analysis for the Kassam itself (which Mark Sennett seemed to affirm) that seemed (to me) to demonstrate that spending money on the Kassam was a self-defeating waste of time. It is but only if we stayed there. I still can't get an answer as to why we can't buy the stadium not have to pay rent for 2/3 years and make extra from revenue. While getting the planning and build sorted for the new ground, then we can move straight into a finished stadium selling the kassam hopefully for a profit to fund it. That's got to be the best solution in the short term and long term. If not we keep paying rent which I believe goes up if we do, and keep losing money every year without even knowing for certain WE can go ahead
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 4, 2016 10:53:27 GMT
In his shoes I wouldn't be answering any questions on this forum, mate.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Jan 4, 2016 10:54:19 GMT
From the other thread: Charlie: "But that is a lot of 'ifs' - many of them totally out of our control and many of them more subject to delay than a simple yes/no at Water Eaton. Which we would get within 12 months." That seems like a remarkably short timescale. Since you helped look into this, I presume this is factually correct. What about the inevitable appeals, protests etc? Getting permission to put a straightforward house extension up seems to take months! How much money would it cost to put these particular wheels in motion, so see whether the whole thing is remotely possible? Quite a bit, as you'd have to have plans drawn up, a proposal for the infrastructure? Good questions. I think one of the points Mr Methane raised that were shouted down on the other thread was the cost benefit analysis for the Kassam itself (which Mark Sennett seemed to affirm) that seemed (to me) to demonstrate that spending money on the Kassam was a self-defeating waste of time. I am no fan of the Kassam, and would love us to move somewhere better suited (and 'ours'!). But if I interpret DE's recent remarks correctly then he sees it as the only current solid option. Spending money on it may be like putting lipstick on a pig (and not even our pig), but without a definite yes/no in regard to the planning permission at WE then it is all we have. Which is why I am interested in how much time, effort and money it might take to at least get to that stage. Because if the answer is 'no' then we can put that option to one side, and if the answer is 'yes' I am sure Uncle Firoz is interested in the money he could make by building housing on the current site, which would surely help in negotiating mutually beneficial severance of the current arrangement.
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Post by harrycarry on Jan 4, 2016 11:07:14 GMT
Is there any chance of a train station ever being built near the Kassam? If not then WE needs to be given every chance. So many stay away due to not wanting to waste away time getting out of a Kassam car park, and many are not prepared to park in BL back streets.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 4, 2016 11:15:24 GMT
I am no fan of the Kassam, and would love us to move somewhere better suited (and 'ours'!). But if I interpret DE's recent remarks correctly then he sees it as the only current solid option. Spending money on it may be like putting lipstick on a pig (and not even our pig), but without a definite yes/no in regard to the planning permission at WE then it is all we have. Which is why I am interested in how much time, effort and money it might take to at least get to that stage. Because if the answer is 'no' then we can put that option to one side, and if the answer is 'yes' I am sure Uncle Firoz is interested in the money he could make by building housing on the current site, which would surely help in negotiating mutually beneficial severance of the current arrangement. Yep, that all seems perfectly valid to me. Except that quite possibly (I'll defy the forum and take the word of the people who actually made an analysis) spending money on the Kassam (other than as a Firoz-warmer in order to exchange sites) is futile. From which it follows that Mr Eels is surely making a fairly serious mistake if he's looking at the Kassam as our future?
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 4, 2016 11:17:45 GMT
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Post by scotters on Jan 4, 2016 11:21:19 GMT
mustard cords (f*ck them) Hey... HEY. I know this is an emotive issue but let's not say anything we can't take back. That said, I think you're completely right about this. There was a good quote, I forget where I saw it, that said that top-level football is more child-friendly than ever, but less achievable for young people than ever. And that comment on the missing generation of new fans is dead on, but perhaps doesn't go far enough. We'd all love the idea of a swelling yellow army roaring the team up the league, but I just don't think it's going to happen. The Kassam is a dump but it's not the dark side of the moon - perhaps we have to accept that all the people who would potentially go to see OUFC out of a love of the team and an affinity for the club are already there. Moving up to league 1 or the championship, or playing great-quality football isn't going to improve that position much IMO. Realistically, if this club's ever going to have 15,000 people watching it regularly, then a lot of those are going to be students, tourists who've tacked on a day at the football to a flying trip to Bath, Stonehenge and the colleges, and most importantly families taking the kids on a day out. And to attract those types of people you need easy access, good parking, a modern setup, plenty of non-football things to do around the match, the whole modern package. Which will never happen at the Kassam. Call them plastics or whatever you want, but they all pay the same for a ticket. We take the p*ss out of Reading fans for being plastics - well I bet the few 'real' fans in there were weeping all the way to the premier league. There's no doubt in my mind that Water Eaton is the only way for this club to grow. The only question is whether it's a feasible project, in terms of financing, planning and completing. And I'm not so sure about that. But without that level of improvement, I don;t really see the club getting any bigger, regardless of how the team are performing or where in the league they are.
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Post by harrycarry on Jan 4, 2016 11:30:39 GMT
IMO train station is very important. Think we could draw in loads from Bicester as population is rising which would be far easier by train. Would like to see the stats done for feasibility & forecasted numbers and locations of our potential fans.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 4, 2016 11:32:24 GMT
mustard cords (f*ck them) Hey... HEY. I know this is an emotive issue but let's not say anything we can't take back. Oh, I was channeling a true supporter Of course I do feel like that to some extent and have a lot of empathy with the old school despite being slightly bakelite myself. I fully agree with your comments.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 4, 2016 11:34:33 GMT
IMO train station is very important. Think we could draw in loads from Bicester as population is rising which would be far easier by train. Would like to see the stats done for feasibility & forecasted numbers and locations of our potential fans. Agree with that - but it will be a small train carrying relatively few people and run every 30 minutes or so. How much difference will it make? Uh, won't you have to change at Oxford from Bicester?
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Post by harrycarry on Jan 4, 2016 11:43:08 GMT
IMO train station is very important. Think we could draw in loads from Bicester as population is rising which would be far easier by train. Would like to see the stats done for feasibility & forecasted numbers and locations of our potential fans. Agree with that - but it will be a small train carrying relatively few people and run every 30 minutes or so. How much difference will it make? Uh, won't you have to change at Oxford from Bicester? I don't know a lot about the train network or stations and idea what the future plans are for rail. But surely there needs to be collaberation and planning for the future, and I mean with a vision that it is right for at least next 50 years not just 20 years like the Kassam which already fails on a number of issues. I am not sure the club owners would want to spend what it would cost to get everything done properly, unless all the other stakeholders collaborate including the Council, Network Rail.
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Post by ox4eva on Jan 4, 2016 12:49:31 GMT
In reality what would Ka$$am take for the ground?
Last price I heard was £13 million, what do we get for that price, ground and car park ?
My own choice is for the U's to purchase the ground and develop it with a 4th stand, but it's where the investment comes from!
I can't see a train station being added, using Reading as an example, they are quite far out of town and fans use car parks and the local bus service just like us.
Could something not be set up at the park and ride with shuttle buses coming directly to the ground?
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