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Post by browny on Dec 29, 2015 20:27:28 GMT
Would be a side step anyway, those clubs not much bigger than the mighty U'S You don't see Brighton and Hull as much bigger clubs than Oxford ? Seriously ? Brighton are averaging 24,000 at home this season, Hull average over 17,000, we are at 6,100 but somehow that means that a move from Oxford to either of those two is a sideways move ? I am as passionate as any Oxford fan but lets be realistic we are a million miles from where these two are at the moment and will be for a number of years
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Post by yellows1 on Jan 1, 2016 1:28:54 GMT
Would be a side step anyway, those clubs not much bigger than the mighty U'S You don't see Brighton and Hull as much bigger clubs than Oxford ? Seriously ? Brighton are averaging 24,000 at home this season, Hull average over 17,000, we are at 6,100 but somehow that means that a move from Oxford to either of those two is a sideways move ? I am as passionate as any Oxford fan but lets be realistic we are a million miles from where these two are at the moment and will be for a number of years No I don't think we are a million miles away and yes I am being serious, we could be in the championship in 2-3 years time, we are moving forward quickly.
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Post by saddletramp on Jan 1, 2016 8:13:58 GMT
You don't see Brighton and Hull as much bigger clubs than Oxford ? Seriously ? Brighton are averaging 24,000 at home this season, Hull average over 17,000, we are at 6,100 but somehow that means that a move from Oxford to either of those two is a sideways move ? I am as passionate as any Oxford fan but lets be realistic we are a million miles from where these two are at the moment and will be for a number of years No I don't think we are a million miles away and yes I am being serious, we could be in the championship in 2-3 years time, we are moving forward quickly. Could,might be,possibly,be a championship club in 2/3 years time. Could,might be,possibly,be a league 2 team in 2/3 years time. Not only are Brighton and Hull FAR bigger clubs than we will ever be,not only are they Championship clubs,they are top FOUR Championship clubs. Footballers have to take every opportunity that comes their way,you never know whats around the corner. You say he should stay because we might be in League 1 next season,well guess what,Hull and Brighton might be in the Premier league. If these rumours are true,he would be mad to turn it down. P.S. "We are moving forward quickly" Id say with 1 league win in December,not quickly enough.
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Post by bigcrompy on Jan 1, 2016 10:08:12 GMT
No I don't think we are a million miles away and yes I am being serious, we could be in the championship in 2-3 years time, we are moving forward quickly. Could,might be,possibly,be a championship club in 2/3 years time. Could,might be,possibly,be a league 2 team in 2/3 years time. Not only are Brighton and Hull FAR bigger clubs than we will ever be,not only are they Championship clubs,they are top FOUR Championship clubs. Footballers have to take every opportunity that comes their way,you never know whats around the corner. You say he should stay because we might be in League 1 next season,well guess what,Hull and Brighton might be in the Premier league. If these rumours are true,he would be mad to turn it down. P.S. "We are moving forward quickly" Id say with 1 league win in December,not quickly enough. ...and I'm pretty sure both have fallen on hard times and almost been defunct within living memory. They've had comparable spells in the top flight to us, but neither has won a major trophy. Hull were almost entirely irrelevant to any but their own diehards for 90-odd years until 2008. Appreciably they offer a higher standard of football than we presently can, have bigger stadia and larger attendances; and I accept the point that a player of the calibre of Roofe, wanting to prove himself after Premier League rejection, would seriously consider any offer they made. But why say they're bigger than we'll ever be? You think we shouldn't have aspirations? You think Eales and Appleton shouldn't do their darndest to create the biggest and best dynasty that they can? I know I'm getting off the point you're making (which I accept) but nonetheless I just don't see why so defeatist...we've plenty of knockers out there who'll beat us down, why do it to ourselves?
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Post by browny on Jan 1, 2016 20:23:14 GMT
I seem to remember David Lloyd ( yeah that David Lloyd)putting a padlock around the gate at hulls ground and holding them to ransome and the crowds were shite then, so I'd say yeah when times are hard it's the hardcore who support teams and if we could get to the championship our support would be on a par with Brighton and hull. Was that about the time we were £13m in debt with our future in doubt as well. We have to be realistic, we are light years away from ever having thje level of crowds that Brighton are getting (even if the ground could hold it). 26,000 there today for a game on live TV with 25,200 of those bring home fans Time for a reality check for those who think we could ever get that level of support
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Post by cass63 on Jan 1, 2016 21:58:12 GMT
I've just googled hulls average attendance when Lloyd was owner, they were in the same league we are in and their average was 3400. Their last home game they had 21000.
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Post by yellows1 on Jan 1, 2016 22:12:57 GMT
I seem to remember David Lloyd ( yeah that David Lloyd)putting a padlock around the gate at hulls ground and holding them to ransome and the crowds were shite then, so I'd say yeah when times are hard it's the hardcore who support teams and if we could get to the championship our support would be on a par with Brighton and hull. Was that about the time we were £13m in debt with our future in doubt as well. We have to be realistic, we are light years away from ever having thje level of crowds that Brighton are getting (even if the ground could hold it). 26,000 there today for a game on live TV with 25,200 of those bring home fans Time for a reality check for those who think we could ever get that level of support Think you forget that we were on par with the likes of Reading in the late eighties early nineties, guess we have a fair bit of catching up to do of course but we have to aspire to something, either that or may as well throw the towel in now!!!!!
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Post by horseman on Jan 1, 2016 22:16:51 GMT
I seem to remember David Lloyd ( yeah that David Lloyd)putting a padlock around the gate at hulls ground and holding them to ransome and the crowds were shite then, so I'd say yeah when times are hard it's the hardcore who support teams and if we could get to the championship our support would be on a par with Brighton and hull. Was that about the time we were £13m in debt with our future in doubt as well. We have to be realistic, we are light years away from ever having thje level of crowds that Brighton are getting (even if the ground could hold it). 26,000 there today for a game on live TV with 25,200 of those bring home fans Time for a reality check for those who think we could ever get that level of support I've never felt that the people of oxford/shire are interested in football/Oxford United but CM had some interesting facts and figures that show that indeed it could well be possible..i suspect people felt the same about Brighton.
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Post by harrycarry on Jan 1, 2016 22:26:38 GMT
Wigan average in 1994/95 was 1748 in Div 3. In 2006/7 it was 20609. IMO we will easily get over 20,000 providing there is a train station nearby and we have a proper ground.
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Post by browny on Jan 2, 2016 10:45:44 GMT
Oxford is also half the size of Hull or Brighton. Still I long for the day we get 20,000 and hope you are all right. Just can't see it given last time in the top flight we couldn't fill a 13,000 ground when crowds in the top flight were on a par with today and in some cases bigger because grounds had standing areas
As for Hull's 3,400 that was when they were at Boothferry Crescent, last time we were in the same division as them in 2004 they average 16,500 in League 2 compared to our 6,296. I guess you can use statistics however you want to
As it happens Wigan is a far smaller town than Oxford who we should not forget have 12,000 + crods at a Rugby League side as well
Still just cannot see where all the fans are coming from
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Post by cass63 on Jan 2, 2016 11:08:55 GMT
The hassle you have getting in and out of the kasstad has to be taken into consideration as well, I know it's not 10,000 people different but if the place was better looking and easier to acces we would have a better attendance I'm sure, can't see us getting a move though.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 2, 2016 11:11:16 GMT
Oxford is also half the size of Hull or Brighton. Still I long for the day we get 20,000 and hope you are all right. Just can't see it given last time in the top flight we couldn't fill a 13,000 ground when crowds in the top flight were on a par with today and in some cases bigger because grounds had standing areas As for Hull's 3,400 that was when they were at Boothferry Crescent, last time we were in the same division as them in 2004 they average 16,500 in League 2 compared to our 6,296. I guess you can use statistics however you want to As it happens Wigan is a far smaller town than Oxford who we should not forget have 12,000 + crods at a Rugby League side as well Still just cannot see where all the fans are coming from While Oxford maybe smaller than those two you have to take into account the lack of other teams around us, and that it's not a massive rugby area. Our catchment area is probably the same, and like eales said once u get up to those levels the name Oxford is already a global brand
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Post by Pete Burrett on Jan 2, 2016 11:11:22 GMT
Oxford is also half the size of Hull or Brighton. Still I long for the day we get 20,000 and hope you are all right. Just can't see it given last time in the top flight we couldn't fill a 13,000 ground when crowds in the top flight were on a par with today and in some cases bigger because grounds had standing areas As for Hull's 3,400 that was when they were at Boothferry Crescent, last time we were in the same division as them in 2004 they average 16,500 in League 2 compared to our 6,296. I guess you can use statistics however you want to As it happens Wigan is a far smaller town than Oxford who we should not forget have 12,000 + crods at a Rugby League side as well Still just cannot see where all the fans are coming from I think the more important statistic in comparing crowd potential is not city/town population, but wider catchment. Oxford, for example can lay claim to most of Oxfordshire for potential support. I think Norwich is a more realistic comparator than Hull or Brighton; similar sized core city with similar sized, largely rural/small town, county beyond. I haven't (couldn't be bothered to) look up the figures, but think you're wrong about mid-1980s crowds in the top flight. Surely they were much lower than today, largely because of the hooliganism prevalent at the time? If we had a 20,000 seat stadium, I think 15,000 in the Championship would be achievable, but that would include sizeable average away support. If we got to the top flight, 20,000 every home game should be easy.
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Post by Barts on Jan 2, 2016 11:21:45 GMT
Oxford is also half the size of Hull or Brighton. Still I long for the day we get 20,000 and hope you are all right. Just can't see it given last time in the top flight we couldn't fill a 13,000 ground when crowds in the top flight were on a par with today and in some cases bigger because grounds had standing areas As for Hull's 3,400 that was when they were at Boothferry Crescent, last time we were in the same division as them in 2004 they average 16,500 in League 2 compared to our 6,296. I guess you can use statistics however you want to As it happens Wigan is a far smaller town than Oxford who we should not forget have 12,000 + crods at a Rugby League side as well Still just cannot see where all the fans are coming from I think the more important statistic in comparing crowd potential is not city/town population, but wider catchment. Oxford, for example can lay claim to most of Oxfordshire for potential support. I think Norwich is a more realistic comparator than Hull or Brighton; similar sized core city with similar sized, largely rural/small town, county beyond. I haven't (couldn't be bothered to) look up the figures, but think you're wrong about mid-1980s crowds in the top flight. Surely they were much lower than today, largely because of the hooliganism prevalent at the time? If we had a 20,000 seat stadium, I think 15,000 in the Championship would be achievable, but that would include sizeable average away support. If we got to the top flight, 20,000 every home game should be easy. They were definatly smaller, only man Utd Liverpool and Everton got 25000 + crowds. Most clubs were between 15+20 thousand. With us, Ipswich and west brom the lowest.
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Post by bicesterox on Jan 2, 2016 12:04:26 GMT
Funnily enough I dragged some stuff out of the loft last night and found a scrapbook I did in 85-86 season. Being a bit of a statto back then I had done a page of average attendances for the previous season with attendance v OUFC for 85-85 Arsenal 31305 (19632) Aston Villa 18320 (12992) Birmingham 12733* (10568) Chelsea 23065 (16182) Coventry 12848 (10226) Everton 31983 (24553) Ipswich 17052 (17827) Leicester 14491 (7711) Liverpool 34465 (37861) Luton 10817 (10633) Man City 24220* (20099) Man Utd 42880 (51802) Newcastle 26228 (23596) Nottm F 170389 (15137) QPR 15318 (16348) Sheffield W 27786 (18556) Southampton 18046 (15350) Spurs 28930 (17698) Watford 18364 (16126) WBA 13598 (14461 our first match) West Ham 18433 (23596)
*= division 2 in previous season
So crowds were a lot lower back then, but we obviously weren't a big draw as some dips were horrendous. Spurs and Arsenall both had over 11000 drops v us
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Post by londonroader1 on Jan 2, 2016 12:06:44 GMT
League Division 3 Home attendances average as of February 4th 1984
Burnley 7,342 Bolton 6,262 Bradford 3,544 Wigan 4,100 Preston 4,658
OUFCX
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Post by bicesterox on Jan 2, 2016 12:32:29 GMT
I think the more important statistic in comparing crowd potential is not city/town population, but wider catchment. Oxford, for example can lay claim to most of Oxfordshire for potential support. I think Norwich is a more realistic comparator than Hull or Brighton; similar sized core city with similar sized, largely rural/small town, county beyond. I haven't (couldn't be bothered to) look up the figures, but think you're wrong about mid-1980s crowds in the top flight. Surely they were much lower than today, largely because of the hooliganism prevalent at the time? If we had a 20,000 seat stadium, I think 15,000 in the Championship would be achievable, but that would include sizeable average away support. If we got to the top flight, 20,000 every home game should be easy. They were definatly smaller, only man Utd Liverpool and Everton got 25000 + crowds. Most clubs were between 15+20 thousand. With us, Ipswich and west brom the lowest. The 5 lowest averages in 85/86 were WBA 12137 Coventry 11648 Luton 11051 Oxford 11029 Birmingham 10918 Ipswich were on over 14000 avarage
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 2, 2016 12:48:23 GMT
They were definatly smaller, only man Utd Liverpool and Everton got 25000 + crowds. Most clubs were between 15+20 thousand. With us, Ipswich and west brom the lowest. The 5 lowest averages in 85/86 were WBA 12137 Coventry 11648 Luton 11051 Oxford 11029 Birmingham 10918 Ipswich were on over 14000 avarage What was the capacity of the manor though? 11029 must have been pretty close to that
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Post by bazzer9461 on Jan 2, 2016 12:52:26 GMT
The 5 lowest averages in 85/86 were WBA 12137 Coventry 11648 Luton 11051 Oxford 11029 Birmingham 10918 Ipswich were on over 14000 avarage What was the capacity of the manor though? 11029 must have been pretty close to that I remember the gates being locked on a few occasions because we were full.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 2, 2016 12:53:41 GMT
What was the capacity of the manor though? 11029 must have been pretty close to that I remember the gates being locked on a few occasions because we were full. That's what i was thinking, hard to judge average attendances when u have a small capacity ground that can't take what the others do
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Post by bazzer9461 on Jan 2, 2016 13:11:40 GMT
I remember the gates being locked on a few occasions because we were full. That's what i was thinking, hard to judge average attendances when u have a small capacity ground that can't take what the others do I think nowadys with the support that is there now, we could if we were in the championship al beit with away support probably be between 12,000 and 15,000 again a lot would depend on daytrippers, But certainly the hard core support would double to about 8,000 so we will have to see
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Post by Pete Burrett on Jan 2, 2016 13:12:08 GMT
I remember the gates being locked on a few occasions because we were full. That's what i was thinking, hard to judge average attendances when u have a small capacity ground that can't take what the others do I seem to remember that the capacity of The Manor at the time was 14,000. Away support would have had circa 2,500 maximum (Cuckoo Lane + a few seats).
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Post by bicesterox on Jan 2, 2016 13:42:07 GMT
That's what i was thinking, hard to judge average attendances when u have a small capacity ground that can't take what the others do I seem to remember that the capacity of The Manor at the time was 14,000. Away support would have had circa 2,500 maximum (Cuckoo Lane + a few seats). We had 13939 v Everton 13657 v Arsenal 13140 v West Ham 13280 v Man U Only 11474 v Liverpool Think we've hijacked Roofes thread here, sorry☺️
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Post by charliesghost on Jan 2, 2016 13:55:11 GMT
Oxford is also half the size of Hull or Brighton. Still I long for the day we get 20,000 and hope you are all right. Just can't see it given last time in the top flight we couldn't fill a 13,000 ground when crowds in the top flight were on a par with today and in some cases bigger because grounds had standing areas As for Hull's 3,400 that was when they were at Boothferry Crescent, last time we were in the same division as them in 2004 they average 16,500 in League 2 compared to our 6,296. I guess you can use statistics however you want to As it happens Wigan is a far smaller town than Oxford who we should not forget have 12,000 + crods at a Rugby League side as well Still just cannot see where all the fans are coming from Hilariously ignorant post. 1) Oxford United is in fact nothing of the sort. It is Oxfordshire United. 80 per cent of our support comes from outside Oxford itself. 2) the same is true of Brighton, who are effectively - and always have been - the Sussex team. From memory, 21 per cent of their support comes from metropolitan Brighton. 3) Brighton had almost identical attendances at the Goldstone AT ALL LEVELS as we did at the Manor. 4) moving to the Withdean (their equivalent of the Kassam), their average attendance, from memory, was circa 8k in League 1. 5) like OUFC, they are one of a handful of clubs (18 in the country, I think) who are designated Category 1 by Wembley, on the basis that they would sell out their 33k allocation for any significant game at Wembley. You'd be amazed by the so-called 'big' clubs who can't do that. 6) Our current catchment area is slightly larger than Brighton's. But it is due to grow much larger over the next ten years. In that time, the total population of Bicester and Banbury will, together, form a similar level to that which supports many northern clubs. So - what happened to Brighton, if we are going to use that comparison point? How did they finally tap into their huge potential county-wide fanbase. Well, of course, the football helped. The Championship these days is a different beast to when we were last there. But if they had entered the Championship at Withdean or the Goldstone, what would they have expected to get? 12k is what they told me. So an extra 15k home fans every game? Well, they had the far-sightedness, as did Southampton, to understand that it is all very well having a massive middle-class catchment area, but if you want them to come, you have to cater for them. No use being in an old-fashioned stadium with no good food. No use being in a crappy breeze block stadium with no public transport. You need a bang-up 21st century stadium which will, and this is crucial, provide a good day out EVEN IF the football is crap. It makes me clutch my head with frustration when I am asked (as a marketing person) by fans, fans leaders, directors etc how we can get the people who came to Wembley to come watch us more often. And then, in the next breath, ask how we can buy the Kassam. If we buy the Kassam, we answer one present problem but we consign ourselves forever to lower league status.. because even if we were lucky enough to have a huge working-class support base who would put up with crap facilities, the traffic flows, and total lack of public transport options, mean that we will never be able to attract floating supporters to come to something where they spend half their day in a traffic jam. It is an existential question for all of us. Do we want to hunker down to a League 1/League 2 future with our 4-7k hardcore buoyed up twice a season to 10k for that odd occasion when the game is big enough to wear the traffic, shit location and God-awful facilities? Or do we embrace our good luck in being one of the 7 or 8 'County teams' who are already taking huge advantage of the shift in football demographics to gradually steamroller the old northern mill-town clubs, who just cannot compete financially with the Brightons of this world, for all their grand histories. For me, the answer is so obvious. But it often seems as though a lot of our 'true fan' base are actually more comfortable being good ole' Headington United, with a solid inferiority complex and a sort of Stockholm Syndrome attachment to our current rented accommodation. I bet that Brighton's massed ranks of supporters, sat watching their team at the top of the Championship, are glad enough that their club - and fans groups, for they were very important in that period of BHA's existence - had the foresight and ambition not to waste time and money trying to buy the Withdean!!
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 2, 2016 14:02:27 GMT
I was told yesterday Charlie that the two stations planned , one at BMW one at greater leys will go ahead 2017 and if we can get the science park on board the transport issues won't be half as bad. We know u favour the new stadium, but let's not pretend there won't be traffic issues getting out of a car park there either. Funny How everyone else thinks it's doable at the kassam, I can't see 10k people refusing to watch us in the championship just because of transport issues. The higher we go the better the football is the more we will attract . And if and when we get there it won't be a breeze block stadium, it would be 4 sided possibly with the corners filled in, look how much better the club have already made it this season with Oufc branding and colours, and that's within the limits of what we can do not owning it
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Post by finlandia on Jan 2, 2016 14:21:35 GMT
Oxford is also half the size of Hull or Brighton. Still I long for the day we get 20,000 and hope you are all right. Just can't see it given last time in the top flight we couldn't fill a 13,000 ground when crowds in the top flight were on a par with today and in some cases bigger because grounds had standing areas As for Hull's 3,400 that was when they were at Boothferry Crescent, last time we were in the same division as them in 2004 they average 16,500 in League 2 compared to our 6,296. I guess you can use statistics however you want to As it happens Wigan is a far smaller town than Oxford who we should not forget have 12,000 + crods at a Rugby League side as well Still just cannot see where all the fans are coming from Hilariously ignorant post. 1) Oxford United is in fact nothing of the sort. It is Oxfordshire United. 80 per cent of our support comes from outside Oxford itself. 2) the same is true of Brighton, who are effectively - and always have been - the Sussex team. From memory, 21 per cent of their support comes from metropolitan Brighton. 3) Brighton had almost identical attendances at the Goldstone AT ALL LEVELS as we did at the Manor. 4) moving to the Withdean (their equivalent of the Kassam), their average attendance, from memory, was circa 8k in League 1. 5) like OUFC, they are one of a handful of clubs (18 in the country, I think) who are designated Category 1 by Wembley, on the basis that they would sell out their 33k allocation for any significant game at Wembley. You'd be amazed by the so-called 'big' clubs who can't do that. 6) Our current catchment area is slightly larger than Brighton's. But it is due to grow much larger over the next ten years. In that time, the total population of Bicester and Banbury will, together, form a similar level to that which supports many northern clubs. So - what happened to Brighton, if we are going to use that comparison point? How did they finally tap into their huge potential county-wide fanbase. Well, of course, the football helped. The Championship these days is a different beast to when we were last there. But if they had entered the Championship at Withdean or the Goldstone, what would they have expected to get? 12k is what they told me. So an extra 15k home fans every game? Well, they had the far-sightedness, as did Southampton, to understand that it is all very well having a massive middle-class catchment area, but if you want them to come, you have to cater for them. No use being in an old-fashioned stadium with no good food. No use being in a crappy breeze block stadium with no public transport. You need a bang-up 21st century stadium which will, and this is crucial, provide a good day out EVEN IF the football is crap. It makes me clutch my head with frustration when I am asked (as a marketing person) by fans, fans leaders, directors etc how we can get the people who came to Wembley to come watch us more often. And then, in the next breath, ask how we can buy the Kassam. If we buy the Kassam, we answer one present problem but we consign ourselves forever to lower league status.. because even if we were lucky enough to have a huge working-class support base who would put up with crap facilities, the traffic flows, and total lack of public transport options, mean that we will never be able to attract floating supporters to come to something where they spend half their day in a traffic jam. It is an existential question for all of us. Do we want to hunker down to a League 1/League 2 future with our 4-7k hardcore buoyed up twice a season to 10k for that odd occasion when the game is big enough to wear the traffic, shit location and God-awful facilities? Or do we embrace our good luck in being one of the 7 or 8 'County teams' who are already taking huge advantage of the shift in football demographics to gradually steamroller the old northern mill-town clubs, who just cannot compete financially with the Brightons of this world, for all their grand histories. For me, the answer is so obvious. But it often seems as though a lot of our 'true fan' base are actually more comfortable being good ole' Headington United, with a solid inferiority complex and a sort of Stockholm Syndrome attachment to our current rented accommodation. I bet that Brighton's massed ranks of supporters, sat watching their team at the top of the Championship, are glad enough that their club - and fans groups, for they were very important in that period of BHA's existence - had the foresight and ambition not to waste time and money trying to buy the Withdean!! So as a marketing person, why did you not try to influence things wen you were close to the board two years ago?
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Post by bazzer9461 on Jan 2, 2016 14:28:09 GMT
I was told yesterday Charlie that the two stations planned , one at BMW one at greater leys will go ahead 2017 and if we can get the science park on board the transport issues won't be half as bad. We know u favour the new stadium, but let's not pretend there won't be traffic issues getting out of a car park there either. Funny How everyone else thinks it's doable at the kassam, I can't see 10k people refusing to watch us in the championship just because of transport issues. The higher we go the better the football is the more we will attract . And if and when we get there it won't be a breeze block stadium, it would be 4 sided possibly with the corners filled in, look how much better the club have already made it this season with Oufc branding and colours, and that's within the limits of what we can do not owning it Couldnt hava worded it better myself DE has already said they would like to purchase the stadium, When, Thats another question. If DE purchased the stadium would Charlie change his opinion on the stadium.
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Post by charliesghost on Jan 2, 2016 14:39:29 GMT
I was told yesterday Charlie that the two stations planned , one at BMW one at greater leys will go ahead 2017 and if we can get the science park on board the transport issues won't be half as bad. We know u favour the new stadium, but let's not pretend there won't be traffic issues getting out of a car park there either. Funny How everyone else thinks it's doable at the kassam, I can't see 10k people refusing to watch us in the championship just because of transport issues. The higher we go the better the football is the more we will attract . And if and when we get there it won't be a breeze block stadium, it would be 4 sided possibly with the corners filled in, look how much better the club have already made it this season with Oufc branding and colours, and that's within the limits of what we can do not owning it Don't buy it. The economics don't work. You're talking about buying current site for 13 million, spending 5 million on a new fourth stand and then, what? You have a 17k capacity stadium which is already falling to pieces. So you then spend another 4-5 million improving the current stands/ filling in corners and you get to, what, a 21k stadium which you have spent 22-25 million on. To bother spending such huge sums, you need to know that you are in the perfect location.... because buying an existing stadium attracts none of the grants (4 million) nor naming rights (2.5 million) that a new stadium does. Clearly a station at Greater Leys would help a fair bit. Tho that would still involve everyone going INTO Oxford before coming OUT of Oxford before walking 15 minutes. Better than the current shit-show, for sure. But the dream of the future, for a 20k stadoium at absolute best. Sorry, but I just don't see kwik-fix solutions as a replacement for serious strategy. Such as, if Bicester and Banbury are going to have a joint population of 150k in 10 years time, how are we going to target that market? Or: if we are going to maximise spend out of our stadium we need quality FandB outlets around the stadium that pay us rent. How can we do that at the current dump? Rather than just jump at the Withdean - sorry, I mean the Kassam - we need seriously to examine what we could be, and what that takes. Otherwise we are at risk of taking part in a high-class mile race with a pair of Green Flash.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 2, 2016 14:47:37 GMT
I understand all that, and it is dream scenario. But it's already been said water eaton is minimum 10years away and that's if planning is even granted there. Are u saying we can't move forward at our current ground as there are plenty of examples of how that is rubbish. Bournemouth ? If we own the stadium have all the revenue coming in from that and have a training/academy complex opposite ( which will bring more parking ) then we are way ahead of plenty of l1 and championship clubs. If it's what daryl and Stuart think is best to do, and they have both been pretty clear that it is, then that's fine by me. Very easy to spend someone else's money Charlie. Plus there is always the option then of once we own the kassam and are moving forward on a much better financial footing that we can start looking at water eaton, knowing we own a plot of land that could be possibly built on for housing to fund a move. Rather than waiting 10year before we start making money from a ground we own. You've said plenty of times in the past we will not move forward without a stadium. So why confine us to l2/l1 for the next decade
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Post by charliesghost on Jan 2, 2016 14:50:33 GMT
Hilariously ignorant post. 1) Oxford United is in fact nothing of the sort. It is Oxfordshire United. 80 per cent of our support comes from outside Oxford itself. 2) the same is true of Brighton, who are effectively - and always have been - the Sussex team. From memory, 21 per cent of their support comes from metropolitan Brighton. 3) Brighton had almost identical attendances at the Goldstone AT ALL LEVELS as we did at the Manor. 4) moving to the Withdean (their equivalent of the Kassam), their average attendance, from memory, was circa 8k in League 1. 5) like OUFC, they are one of a handful of clubs (18 in the country, I think) who are designated Category 1 by Wembley, on the basis that they would sell out their 33k allocation for any significant game at Wembley. You'd be amazed by the so-called 'big' clubs who can't do that. 6) Our current catchment area is slightly larger than Brighton's. But it is due to grow much larger over the next ten years. In that time, the total population of Bicester and Banbury will, together, form a similar level to that which supports many northern clubs. So - what happened to Brighton, if we are going to use that comparison point? How did they finally tap into their huge potential county-wide fanbase. Well, of course, the football helped. The Championship these days is a different beast to when we were last there. But if they had entered the Championship at Withdean or the Goldstone, what would they have expected to get? 12k is what they told me. So an extra 15k home fans every game? Well, they had the far-sightedness, as did Southampton, to understand that it is all very well having a massive middle-class catchment area, but if you want them to come, you have to cater for them. No use being in an old-fashioned stadium with no good food. No use being in a crappy breeze block stadium with no public transport. You need a bang-up 21st century stadium which will, and this is crucial, provide a good day out EVEN IF the football is crap. It makes me clutch my head with frustration when I am asked (as a marketing person) by fans, fans leaders, directors etc how we can get the people who came to Wembley to come watch us more often. And then, in the next breath, ask how we can buy the Kassam. If we buy the Kassam, we answer one present problem but we consign ourselves forever to lower league status.. because even if we were lucky enough to have a huge working-class support base who would put up with crap facilities, the traffic flows, and total lack of public transport options, mean that we will never be able to attract floating supporters to come to something where they spend half their day in a traffic jam. It is an existential question for all of us. Do we want to hunker down to a League 1/League 2 future with our 4-7k hardcore buoyed up twice a season to 10k for that odd occasion when the game is big enough to wear the traffic, shit location and God-awful facilities? Or do we embrace our good luck in being one of the 7 or 8 'County teams' who are already taking huge advantage of the shift in football demographics to gradually steamroller the old northern mill-town clubs, who just cannot compete financially with the Brightons of this world, for all their grand histories. For me, the answer is so obvious. But it often seems as though a lot of our 'true fan' base are actually more comfortable being good ole' Headington United, with a solid inferiority complex and a sort of Stockholm Syndrome attachment to our current rented accommodation. I bet that Brighton's massed ranks of supporters, sat watching their team at the top of the Championship, are glad enough that their club - and fans groups, for they were very important in that period of BHA's existence - had the foresight and ambition not to waste time and money trying to buy the Withdean!! So as a marketing person, why did you not try to influence things wen you were close to the board two years ago? I did. All the above information comes from an exersize commissioned by Ian Lenagan to be carried out by me, supported by OxVox. We started with a blank sheet of paper, and I for one had barely even heard of the words Water Eaton. We researched other clubs, spoke to a few, engaged a property consultant and produced a report for IL very shortly before he had to sell. I am only reiterating the findings of that report. OxVox leadership from the time would be happy to confirm, I'm sure. Brahma Bull, Sennett and co... I know that people on here have a downer on IL - and he certainly frustrated me endlessly with his reluctance to communicate - but my experience of him was that he was a fairly formidable long-term strategist. If people wonder why we get so few injuries these days, and why we produce so many League-ready youngsters, the answer is because IL put in place the right research and the right structures to produce these outcomes. The stadium situation was his next such project, but events overtook us all. Hope that that's a full answer to your question, which I took to be sincere, even if it was phrased in your characteristically embittered way.
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