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Post by tonyw on Jun 19, 2014 22:31:29 GMT
Rooney had one shot well saved by the keeper and one against the bar when he was at his maximum jumping height. Add to assist and goal he's played his part. 40 goals now in 94 games for England. Not to be sniffed at. Let's not sugarcoat it - the one that was saved was a bad miss. Two thirds of the goal was open, he was ten yards out, and he hammered it straight at the keeper. He simply has to score that at this level. But undoubtedly he wasn't the worst England performer tonight. He just gets more stick because he's the highest paid, highest profile player we have.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Jun 19, 2014 22:43:40 GMT
Rooney had one shot well saved by the keeper and one against the bar when he was at his maximum jumping height. Add to assist and goal he's played his part. 40 goals now in 94 games for England. Not to be sniffed at. Let's not sugarcoat it - the one that was saved was a bad miss. Two thirds of the goal was open, he was ten yards out, and he hammered it straight at the keeper. He simply has to score that at this level. But undoubtedly he wasn't the worst England performer tonight. He just gets more stick because he's the highest paid, highest profile player we have. And he is probably in the side because of his high profile, Yes good assist for the game against Italy but a bad miss tonight easy tap in I expect more from such a high profile striker
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Post by Junior on Jun 19, 2014 22:48:06 GMT
He's offered a whole lot more than captain marvel, "Stevie G"
Get off your soapbox and appreciate what Rooney gave England tonight.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2014 22:52:50 GMT
If Rooney had finished his two easy chances we wouldn't have been talking about Gerrard's "mistake".
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Post by horseman on Jun 19, 2014 22:54:03 GMT
he gets the stick because he is idolised by so many and it's suggested he is world class yet time after time he doesn't show it when it matters...we played well against italy yet had to change things to suit him so he could play the number 10 role, he gets the chance to prove that decision right and misses yet another sitter. How many times does he either mis control the ball or give it away with sloppy passing or get caught in possession?
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Post by horseman on Jun 19, 2014 23:05:00 GMT
He's offered a whole lot more than captain marvel, "Stevie G" Get off your soapbox and appreciate what Rooney gave England tonight. Take away your obvious bias due to him playing for your club and tell me what he has ever done in an England shirt when it really matters to be ranked anything other than average.
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Post by mooro on Jun 19, 2014 23:46:28 GMT
As i put on the hodgson thread, these two games struck me as very reminisant of a new squad at the start of the season, just getting usd to each other. If they were aleague team i doubt it would be longbefore things really camevtogether and they started winning and playing really well and able to beat some of the big boys. Sadly, two games in and it is all but over but we are nota million miles away and shouldcnot be taking a massive hacksaw to the squad or manager.
Id be happy to see Woy lead pretty much the same squad to the euros in two years time and then Russia after that.
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Post by KLYellow on Jun 20, 2014 1:53:03 GMT
To me it looked like the England of old. We lacked quality and the energy of the first game. I don't know what happened, whether it was Uruguay nullified us or we didn't play well. I always thought we would lose, but rather than playing well, we disappointed.
Sturridge and Rooney were our best players, Lallana looked good when he came on.
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Post by Southampton Ox on Jun 20, 2014 6:48:02 GMT
I'm gutted after that, such a shame to be so in impressive after the Italy performance I actually thought Cahill had a good game, and even though the second was sloppy, the first was just class from cavani Sterling was poor tonight but apparently he's not trained all week Still enthusiastic moving forward.. I'd like to see the ox step up into the gerrard role now, he was a class act in that role for bayern and Wiltshire just doesn't look upto it atm even though he does have bags of potential The back 4 still worries me, our lack of any strength in depth was highlighted in the pre-tourno friendliest and although I think shaw's the real deal, and i rate Cahill, I think we're going to look shakey at the back even into 2016. 2 players I'm intrigued by next season are stones and trippier.. Will be interesting to see how they develop with a full year of prem football under their belts On the bright side I'd expect the Italians to win both their games and we should beat Costa Rica so we could still be in with a shout..... Sterling wasn't poor he was shocking.....And if he has not trained all week why play him.....And to say we should beat Costa Rica.....You obviously did not see them rip Uruguay to bits in the second half of there match.... England will come home with no points next week.....Simply not good enough and to many players hanging on to their reputations........
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Post by bicesteryellow on Jun 20, 2014 6:54:38 GMT
He's offered a whole lot more than captain marvel, "Stevie G" Get off your soapbox and appreciate what Rooney gave England tonight. People are having a go at Rooney purely because he's Rooney. He gives his all in an England shirt, and so far has one goal and one assist in two defeats, which is pretty good going. He missed one or two, but the one that Muslera saved was not an easy chance, giving that he was facing the corner flag and on his weaker foot. He maybe could have put it near post but he had a split second decision, went far, didn't get his foot around it enough and had it saved. It was by no means straight at the goalkeeper. And, people of the forum, stop comparing him to Suárez. Suárez is a #9, Rooney is a #10. Their roles are completely different. Short piece on Gerrard. He's been a great servant of England but his international career is over.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Jun 20, 2014 7:04:33 GMT
Rooney was up top and welbeck subbed for the second goal. The first came from the middle then the right. Gerrard missed a key tackle in midfield then Johnson decided he'd allow Cavani all the time and space he reauired to cross for Suarez. Gerrard done what he needed to do? Are city you about his Liverpool performances? As the assist tonight was better suited to Anfield than São Paulo. What's he done for England this World Cup? Rooney had one shot well saved by the keeper and one against the bar when he was at his maximum jumping height. Add to assist and goal he's played his part. 40 goals now in 94 games for England. Not to be sniffed at. That was a poor miss shot straight at the keeper with all that space. I would certainly start seriously looking for a new spearhead strike his days a England striker should be over.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Jun 20, 2014 7:05:46 GMT
He's offered a whole lot more than captain marvel, "Stevie G" Get off your soapbox and appreciate what Rooney gave England tonight. Rooney and Gerrard were both shite.
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Post by Toeby on Jun 20, 2014 7:06:25 GMT
Rooney should've had a hat trick last night. His header against the bar was an awful miss.
I'm surprised nobody has really mentioned the ref. A few debatable decisions but Godin should've been sent off. Without doubt they were 2 clear yellow cards.
Don't get me wrong though, even if that had happened we're still nowhere near good enough defensively.
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Post by gottagetbetta on Jun 20, 2014 7:16:06 GMT
Told you! England never win when its on ITV. The annoying thing is that all tho' we had low expectations, it doesn't hurt any the less when we get knocked out. Ah well I can console myself by reading about the exciting signings GW is going to be making for us over then next few...days?...weeks?...months...?
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Post by Millman on Jun 20, 2014 7:21:51 GMT
The biggest problem with Rooney is to accommodate him we play Sturridge out wide. I think played more centrally with wingers Sturridge could be much more of a threat. We need to build a team around feeding him and then see if Rooney would fit into the formation. Of course we wont because England is always about who you are not how you play.
The weakest player in the England team is Johnson. Defensively useless and always cuts inside when going forwards (ironically that's how we scored).
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Post by saddletramp on Jun 20, 2014 7:40:18 GMT
The biggest problem with Rooney is to accommodate him we play Sturridge out wide. I think played more centrally with wingers Sturridge could be much more of a threat. We need to build a team around feeding him and then see if Rooney would fit into the formation. Of course we wont because England is always about who you are not how you play. The weakest player in the England team is Johnson. Defensively useless and always cuts inside when going forwards (ironically that's how we scored). I don't see how Johnson gets all the critisism,didnt do a lot wrong against Italy,assist for the goal last night and not to blame for any of the 4 goals that England have conceded. Name me a fit right back that you would play instead of him ? Baines was hopeless against Italy,jumped in the air for the 2nd goal,by the time he had landed,the player had turned on to his other foot,crossed and Ballotelli had scored,got caught in possession half a dozen times last night and his crossing/corners were awful,(and we have a world class left back on his hols)yet Johnson is the weakest link? Jagielka/Cahill nowhere to be seen for the Ballotelli goal,nowhere to be seen for Suarez 1st goal,and let a punt from the keeper go right into Englands box for the 2nd,yet Johnson is the weakest link? Also why doesn't Wellbeck jump? loads of times last night when the ball was in the air,a five foot 8 inch opponent jumped and won the ball in the air,while 6 foot 3 inch Wellbecks feet were stuck on the ground.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 20, 2014 8:01:35 GMT
The issue with Rooney is where to play him? Paul Scholes was right about him having peaked too early in his career and his goal scoring record has an unfortunate consistency about it. I'm not anti Rooney, like Gerrard, he can't hide when he doesn't play well. He's almost sympomatic of England as a team. Talented, temperamentally suspect and plays better for club than he does for his country. It's a shame a talented player goes missing in the big games.
I do think Hodgson should stay.
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Post by Hicko on Jun 20, 2014 8:05:21 GMT
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Post by victor1986 on Jun 20, 2014 8:44:09 GMT
Of course Hodgson has to stay - he just needs to find a central defender(s) who can rise above League 2 level!
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Post by tatabanya on Jun 20, 2014 9:19:02 GMT
Gerrard was always going to be the weak link and he has let us down
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Post by KLYellow on Jun 20, 2014 9:49:20 GMT
What I miss and maybe it's true or not is notably seeing the desire to play for your country. I remember players like Lineker, Butcher, Pearce, etc where they would give blood, sweat and tears for their country. Is it just me or is that missing these days?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 9:54:30 GMT
Would, should, could. When are people going to wake up and smell the coffee. We do not produce enough players who are good enough. Right from under 7s on a Sunday morning right up to integrating players into first teams, our system is poor. Until this is sorted, which will take a long time, we will continue to lack the technical ability to do well in these tournaments.
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Post by Southampton Ox on Jun 20, 2014 10:27:53 GMT
Told you! England never win when its on ITV. The annoying thing is that all tho' we had low expectations, it doesn't hurt any the less when we get knocked out. Ah well I can console myself by reading about the exciting signings GW is going to be making for us over then next few...days?...weeks?...months...? Italy game was on BBC.....
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Post by gottagetbetta on Jun 20, 2014 10:40:18 GMT
that doesn't change my argument. We do win, sometimes on the BBC but never on ITV. Come to think of it, it doesn't really matter a bugger until the European Championships come round, and I'll worry about i then!
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Post by bazzer9461 on Jun 20, 2014 10:42:43 GMT
Would, should, could. When are people going to wake up and smell the coffee. We do not produce enough players who are good enough. Right from under 7s on a Sunday morning right up to integrating players into first teams, our system is poor. Until this is sorted, which will take a long time, we will continue to lack the technical ability to do well in these tournaments. Because of the greed of the premiership not many good young England talent are going to get a chance. We have a lot of oversea players but how many English are playing oversea?
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Post by dannyc on Jun 20, 2014 10:56:12 GMT
didn't England have more shots and possession losing was abit harsh tbh draw would been more fair result suarez won it for Uruguay
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 11:06:34 GMT
Would, should, could. When are people going to wake up and smell the coffee. We do not produce enough players who are good enough. Right from under 7s on a Sunday morning right up to integrating players into first teams, our system is poor. Until this is sorted, which will take a long time, we will continue to lack the technical ability to do well in these tournaments. Because of the greed of the premiership not many good young England talent are going to get a chance. We have a lot of oversea players but how many English are playing oversea? Its even deeper than that. Our Local academies select the strongest quickest and most athletic youngsters, however come the age of the 21 they are then not the quickest, strongest and most athletic. I've also heard that coaching in our academies is dire compared to our rivals abroad. For the top 50 clubs in the world who produce professional players there we only 3 English clubs. In 2008, Uefa data showed that England had just 2,769 Uefa (Pro, A or B) licenced coaches compared to 34,970 in Germany, 29,240 in Italy and 23,995 in Spain. ' news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8785895.stmSunday Morning football for kids is terrible for developing talent and creating gifted footballers. The coaches who manage these teams are not taught how to develop their players and this inevitably ends up with kick and run and route one style football being used as it is the most successful in kids football. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24660579It may seem like it all a bit far fetched but I really do believe this is the problem.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Jun 20, 2014 11:18:56 GMT
Because of the greed of the premiership not many good young England talent are going to get a chance. We have a lot of oversea players but how many English are playing oversea? Its even deeper than that. Our Local academies select the strongest quickest and most athletic youngsters, however come the age of the 21 they are then not the quickest, strongest and most athletic. I've also heard that coaching in our academies is dire compared to our rivals abroad. For the top 50 clubs in the world who produce professional players there we only 3 English clubs. In 2008, Uefa data showed that England had just 2,769 Uefa (Pro, A or B) licenced coaches compared to 34,970 in Germany, 29,240 in Italy and 23,995 in Spain. ' news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8785895.stmSunday Morning football for kids is terrible for developing talent and creating gifted footballers. The coaches who manage these teams are not taught how to develop their players and this inevitably ends up with kick and run and route one style football being used as it is the most successful in kids football. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24660579It may seem like it all a bit far fetched but I really do believe this is the problem. Well said, Good point.
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Post by sihath on Jun 20, 2014 11:50:24 GMT
His stats at club level suggest otherwise. His international record is decent. World Cup not so great. 1 goal and 1 assist in two games. If that's a problem player then England have very few worries moving forward. What's your thoughts on Gerrard? On Johnson? On Baines? Rooney's record in the PL for Man Utd is great. Good player at a great team, plenty of chances so he shines. International qualifying record is also very good. At World Cups and in Euro's (with the exception of 2004 as an 18 year old when he was at Everton) he's been poor, very poor. 1 goal and 1 assist in 2 games is true. But that's a bit like saying Arsenal win a trophy a year. You forget the 10 years that went before it. Gerrard? Thanks and goodbye. Johnson. Not good enough. Baines? Let's hope Luke Shaw lives up to the hype. Do they really care though. I mean REALLY? They'll go back to the clubs and their millionaire lifestyle. Next season they might get grief from rival's fans, but so what? Their own fans will praise them, and some will probably sing "Argentina" or some other country's name because they don't really care about England either. B Leagues, League 3, whatever you call it won't make a blind bit of difference. Club football means more to them than representing their country.
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Post by tonyw on Jun 20, 2014 11:57:18 GMT
People are having a go at Rooney purely because he's Rooney. He gives his all in an England shirt, and so far has one goal and one assist in two defeats, which is pretty good going. He missed one or two, but the one that Muslera saved was not an easy chance, giving that he was facing the corner flag and on his weaker foot. He maybe could have put it near post but he had a split second decision, went far, didn't get his foot around it enough and had it saved. It was by no means straight at the goalkeeper. And, people of the forum, stop comparing him to Suárez. Suárez is a #9, Rooney is a #10. Their roles are completely different. Seriously think you need to look at it again (although there was an even better angle last night that isn't shown in this video): www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25285176He's taken a (very good) first touch which leaves him bearing down on goal, and has the entire right half of the goal to aim for - but instead had blasted it near post where the goalie is stationed. Even with his weaker foot, at this level of the game you've simply got to take chances like that when they come along. But the problem isn't necessarily with Rooney - he's a good player, had a decent enough game last night and is undoubtedly one of England's Best XI. The problem is with the fan and media expectation that's built him up into one of the best players in the world. He's a very good player, but he's being talked about in the same bracket as Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Bale and the like. He doesn't belong in that company - he's a second or third tier talent. But the English media monster can't cope with that and has to build him up into something he's not. If it wasn't for the fact that he gets paid about 300 grand a week, and has been a bit of a w*nker off the pitch, I'd genuinely be feeling sorry for him right now.
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