|
Post by scoob on May 20, 2012 22:46:28 GMT
Swiss Yellow, did David Mellor ever disclose any other information? www.oxfordmail.co.uk/archive/1999/05/08/Oxfordshire+Archive/6636148.U_s_fans_ready_to_hit_back_at_Mellor/I was warned of Kassam's reputation on the day that he was announced as our saviour. I do not believe that this was anything to do with racism but I dismissed it because I felt that it was sour grapes from a former manager or one of his hotel's and, to make matters much worse, a Swindon Fan! I supported FOUL and it's objectives by attending the open meetings but I assumed that they had some knowledge of his history. Did FOUL carry out any research into him or was the end goal the only thing that mattered?
|
|
|
Post by swissyellow on May 21, 2012 9:43:48 GMT
Morning Scoob, From what I remember (and my brain is very foggy on the Mellor subject as although I was present in FOUL meetings at that time, I didn't have too much to do with it) David Mellor did not pass on the information he had received to FOUL and there was inferences that he was associated with one of the anti parties, Snake is best placed to answer as he spoke to the bloke in person. When you say you were warned about Kassam, we heard a fair bit that he was a hard nosed business man, but I'd say that wasn't grounds to not support him as he was the only option at that time. What were you warned about his reputation? Lots of people afterwards came to us and said “ooo I heard he was a bit of a bastard” but there was nothing concrete. At that point we'd gone through a number of financially crippling owners who were lovely people, You'd be hard pressed to find anyone with a bad word about Robin Herd, other than under his reign Oxford United amassed potentially club ending debt. The choice was either the possibly naive Gang of Four option or the potential of a successful multi-millionaire, who was passionate and knowledgeable about football. We had been told very good things from Highbury, where Kassam had become well known. We’d dug up as much info as we could on him, from all sorts of sources and yet nothing pointed to him being an evil asset stripper. I’d also question here what the issue is with him? I for one think he was a terrible football owner, who lost faith in those around him, lacking any ability to delegate and at the end cease all funding of the club, spiralling us out of the league. His decision making the season we went from League 1 to 2 was his fault. He failed to fund the playing squad and we lost our place in the 3rd tier. After that what did he do? Did he rip the playing squad apart? Some would argue that although he was not seen as a good chairman we still nearly had success under Atkins and also had the Diaz years, which from what I understand had a big financial cost. Kassam p*ssed off loads, staff hated working for him, he fell out with Managersand many loyal fans hated him because of the CVA. Kassam should make like as easy as possible for the club to buy the stadium, But as Kelvin has publicly stated, the way to do this is for the club to work with him, not to turn up with pitch forks and burning stakes. For all his problems Kassam was no Bill Archer. Now there was a club killer. Again to summarise - Kassam – crap Football chairman and one of the countries richest men (There’s a lot of those around!)
|
|
|
Post by southstandyellow on May 21, 2012 10:51:06 GMT
Who was in the GANG OF FOUR? Wasn't one of them Jim Rosenthal, and surely he would have had the requisite funds available?
|
|
|
Post by ounykee14 on May 21, 2012 11:08:29 GMT
Who was in the GANG OF FOUR? Wasn't one of them Jim Rosenthal, and surely he would have had the requisite funds available? Why would that be? Unless Jim's got some multi-millionaire russian friends I don' know. But yeah, it was him.
|
|
|
Post by southstandyellow on May 21, 2012 11:38:22 GMT
Swiss said the Gang of Four had £120k in total. Just thought Jim R would have had more funds than that available.....
|
|
|
Post by swissyellow on May 21, 2012 12:50:24 GMT
Jim was much more of a figure head than someone willing to pump millions in, he may well be weathly but would he have thrown all his wealth into OUFC?
The Gang of Four would be classed as well off local business men, Even today I doubt a solicitor, MD, Art restorer and a TV pundit would have access to capital needed to invest 5m in a football club.
Here's the Oxford Mail text from 26th May 1999.
"Gang of four in United rescue bid
Four successful businessmen have teamed up to try to save Oxford United by offering themselves as an alternative to millionaire Firoz Kassam, writes Jon Murray.
The quartet are willing to put in around £1.5m to aid the crisis club, to ensure that United are able to play in the Football League next season, and to provide manager Malcolm Shotton with a small amount, at least, to buy players.
They are led by Oxford solicitor David Bower, who was appointed to sort out many of the day-to-day legal matters when former managing director Keith Cox resigned at the start of this year. Alongside him are his friend Jim Rosenthal, the former Oxford Mail journalist and television sports presenter who is fronting tonight's European Cup final in Barcelona, George Bailey, the managing director of Sotheby's, and Hamish Dewar, one of the country's leading restorers of works of art.
Mr Bower said: "I have not been prepared to come on board with Mr Kassam because we have had a big bust-up.
"Up until last week, which was the last time I spoke to him, all he had put in was the £1 he paid for the shares.
"I don't like Mr Kassam and the way he has treated people. We think he has reacted in a disgraceful manner and has ridden roughshod over the other directors. "Ever since the Dean Windass sale, which was inevitable from the moment he said he wanted to leave, the problem was that Mr Kassam wouldn't guarantee putting any money in.
"It was a problem for Malcolm Shotton who was told he would have money to spend but then didn't have, and it's a problem now. Malcolm is tearing his hair out because he can't go after any players and has only got about 11 or 12 fit ones for next season.
"And as it stands now, Oxford United might not even get into the League's fixture list for next season," Mr Bower claimed. "The Football League need guarantees that you can complete the season but Mr Kassam is only prepared to work on a week-by-week basis. "He says everything depends on this multiplex cinema at the stadium and he has made it plain that if it doesn't get the go-ahead he will walk away. The four of us will put in well in excess of £1m. What we want is to secure the long-term future of the football club and if there's anyone else out there who wants to join us, we'd be pleased to hear from you.
"Obviously you will need relatively substantial sums, but we will be happy for others to join."
Mr Bower added: "I know the inner workings of the football club having been up there every day for the last few months. I wanted to come on to the board originally but I wasn't prepared to be perhaps as spineless as the other directors.
"My feeling is that the staff want us but they are worried about their positions in case they have to work for Mr Kassam. But if they're brave enough, they will support us." Bower has written an open letter to Mr Kassam outlining his proposals.
"All I am saying is that there is a choice. It is not Kassam or nothing. There are others who can help this club and the four of us can come in and replace Mr Kassam and hopefully give Malcolm a small amount to go out and sign some players. We are four fairly successful people who have got the resources and the option is there for you," he said.
Mr Bailey and Mr Dewar are Beech Road season ticket holders at the Manor and last season Mr Rosenthal sponsored David Smith while Mr Dewar sponsored Kevin Francis. "
FOUL spoke to them after they appeared, they claimed to have access to up to £1.5m, but had hold of only £120k at the time.
The Club, as previouslty stated needed at least £4-5million that season. As much as those involved in the Gang of Four have since said they had access to more money, I'd throw back that they didn't have any guarantees nor were they seemingly upset that they walked away once they saw the massive financial hole and requirements to fill it.
|
|
|
Post by Colin B on May 21, 2012 13:24:10 GMT
Jim was much more of a figure head than someone willing to pump millions in, he may well be weathly but would he have thrown all his wealth into OUFC? The Gang of Four would be classed as well off local business men, Even today I doubt a solicitor, MD, Art restorer and a TV pundit would have access to capital needed to invest 5m in a football club. Here's the Oxford Mail text from 26th May 1999. "Gang of four in United rescue bid Four successful businessmen have teamed up to try to save Oxford United by offering themselves as an alternative to millionaire Firoz Kassam, writes Jon Murray. The quartet are willing to put in around £1.5m to aid the crisis club, to ensure that United are able to play in the Football League next season, and to provide manager Malcolm Shotton with a small amount, at least, to buy players. They are led by Oxford solicitor David Bower, who was appointed to sort out many of the day-to-day legal matters when former managing director Keith Cox resigned at the start of this year. Alongside him are his friend Jim Rosenthal, the former Oxford Mail journalist and television sports presenter who is fronting tonight's European Cup final in Barcelona, George Bailey, the managing director of Sotheby's, and Hamish Dewar, one of the country's leading restorers of works of art. Mr Bower said: "I have not been prepared to come on board with Mr Kassam because we have had a big bust-up. "Up until last week, which was the last time I spoke to him, all he had put in was the £1 he paid for the shares. "I don't like Mr Kassam and the way he has treated people. We think he has reacted in a disgraceful manner and has ridden roughshod over the other directors. "Ever since the Dean Windass sale, which was inevitable from the moment he said he wanted to leave, the problem was that Mr Kassam wouldn't guarantee putting any money in. "It was a problem for Malcolm Shotton who was told he would have money to spend but then didn't have, and it's a problem now. Malcolm is tearing his hair out because he can't go after any players and has only got about 11 or 12 fit ones for next season. "And as it stands now, Oxford United might not even get into the League's fixture list for next season," Mr Bower claimed. "The Football League need guarantees that you can complete the season but Mr Kassam is only prepared to work on a week-by-week basis. "He says everything depends on this multiplex cinema at the stadium and he has made it plain that if it doesn't get the go-ahead he will walk away. The four of us will put in well in excess of £1m. What we want is to secure the long-term future of the football club and if there's anyone else out there who wants to join us, we'd be pleased to hear from you. "Obviously you will need relatively substantial sums, but we will be happy for others to join." Mr Bower added: "I know the inner workings of the football club having been up there every day for the last few months. I wanted to come on to the board originally but I wasn't prepared to be perhaps as spineless as the other directors. "My feeling is that the staff want us but they are worried about their positions in case they have to work for Mr Kassam. But if they're brave enough, they will support us." Bower has written an open letter to Mr Kassam outlining his proposals. "All I am saying is that there is a choice. It is not Kassam or nothing. There are others who can help this club and the four of us can come in and replace Mr Kassam and hopefully give Malcolm a small amount to go out and sign some players. We are four fairly successful people who have got the resources and the option is there for you," he said. Mr Bailey and Mr Dewar are Beech Road season ticket holders at the Manor and last season Mr Rosenthal sponsored David Smith while Mr Dewar sponsored Kevin Francis. " FOUL spoke to them after they appeared, they claimed to have access to up to £1.5m, but had hold of only £120k at the time. The Club, as previouslty stated needed at least £4-5million that season. As much as those involved in the Gang of Four have since said they had access to more money, I'd throw back that they didn't have any guarantees nor were they seemingly upset that they walked away once they saw the massive financial hole and requirements to fill it. Hmmmm............ I really think the club backed the wrong horse with kassam. Enough things pointed to it then, and much of what he has done since confirm it. I've had dealings with a number of people involved with the club, and also some of those who have attempted to get involved, including some of those named above, and the "it was kassam or bust" crowd are far from right. Nobody intended for us to get shafted the way we have, obviously, and certain people did things with the best of intentions,but I believe the day we let kassam into the club was the day our future changed forever.
|
|
|
Post by swissyellow on May 21, 2012 13:46:03 GMT
Your last sentance is totally correct and I don't disagree with it at all.
No one can argue that if you look at Kassam's tenure through to the sale to Woodstock partners that it was a failure, the club ultimately falling out of the league, internally crippled from lack of investement 7 years on from his takeover. Kassam could have changed that future, but he didn't. Was it because he wanted to asset strip or was it because the football club he bought proved to be a harder task than he imagined and he failed to manage and delegate cash flow correctly. In the end he was not well equiped enough.
However, you can't deny that the Football club does still exist, never entering administration and with it playing in an a half decent modern ground. That, is why Kassam was favoured to take the club over, the job in hand was to save and secure the future of Oxford United back in 99. That was done.
|
|
|
Post by southstandyellow on May 21, 2012 13:55:04 GMT
Whose decision was it to go with Kassam in the end? FOUL? If the Gang of Four spoke vehemently against Kassam, shouldn't they have been heard more? Sorry for the questions Swiss, just finding it very interesting, and you and Eric Read seem ITK on this one...
|
|
|
Post by Mark on May 21, 2012 15:06:57 GMT
Interesting history lesson for me as I wasn't around at the time. I feel the council could have done more to keep a financial interest in at least the stadium.
Kassam's sleight of hand in the club selling the stadium for £6MM to another Firoka company, (exactly the bank mortgage secured on it), then getting the planning permission and selling for £12MM was quite clever. Hence keeping the £6MM profit out of the moneys available for the CVA.
Anyway, the RFU are due to report on their audit as to whether London Welsh can play at the Kasstad sometime this week.
|
|
|
Post by scoob on May 21, 2012 16:06:23 GMT
What were you warned about his reputation? Lots of people afterwards came to us and said “ooo I heard he was a bit of a bastard” but there was nothing concrete. At that point we'd gone through a number of financially crippling owners who were lovely people, You'd be hard pressed to find anyone with a bad word about Robin Herd, other than under his reign Oxford United amassed potentially club ending debt. I was told that Kassam would promise the earth and appear to be a nice bloke until he had got what he wanted and did not need those who were helping him any more. As I say I dismissed this because I was talking to a Swindon fans who was a former Manager of one of his hotels and we were in our office overlooking Swindon's ground so I discounted what was said. I did not take this any further so I am not blaming anyone for being taken in by him just interested to know the history. Personally I feel that Herd is at least as culpable as Kassam because without the botched attempt to build the ground without funding being in place then we would not have needed anyone to "save us". I met Herd once or twice when we were competing on local car rallies and he always came across as a decent bloke who was interested in supporting local sport. I am afraid however that we need to move on and part of the process may be that we may have to build some bridges with Kassam because he holds all of the cards when it comes to the stadium.
|
|
|
Post by oxeter on May 21, 2012 16:09:28 GMT
Two of us that worked for the club were willing to walk out in support of the gang of four. We had worked through the three month period when the club wasn't in a position to pay us, which oddly was some of the best days I spent at The Manor. The spirit built in this period soon disappeared with Kassam's take over, as the opinion formed by all in the club offices was that the club was being used as a vehicle for a land deal. The catch phrase of 'Multiplex' was widely used to take the pee out of Kassam and those that worked for him. Ian Davies predicted at the time (bearing in mind we were a championship club) that Kassam would take us out of league football and he was virtually right. Two of us wanted to walk out in support of the gang of four, but were persuaded against it by a senior club official, who gave us the impression that they would succeed without the need for us to carry out 'a mutiny'. As for the gang of four only having £120,000, would they not have had to guarentee the £14 million we were widely publicised to be in debt at the time? Jim was much more of a figure head than someone willing to pump millions in, he may well be weathly but would he have thrown all his wealth into OUFC? The Gang of Four would be classed as well off local business men, Even today I doubt a solicitor, MD, Art restorer and a TV pundit would have access to capital needed to invest 5m in a football club. Here's the Oxford Mail text from 26th May 1999. "Gang of four in United rescue bid Four successful businessmen have teamed up to try to save Oxford United by offering themselves as an alternative to millionaire Firoz Kassam, writes Jon Murray. The quartet are willing to put in around £1.5m to aid the crisis club, to ensure that United are able to play in the Football League next season, and to provide manager Malcolm Shotton with a small amount, at least, to buy players. They are led by Oxford solicitor David Bower, who was appointed to sort out many of the day-to-day legal matters when former managing director Keith Cox resigned at the start of this year. Alongside him are his friend Jim Rosenthal, the former Oxford Mail journalist and television sports presenter who is fronting tonight's European Cup final in Barcelona, George Bailey, the managing director of Sotheby's, and Hamish Dewar, one of the country's leading restorers of works of art. Mr Bower said: "I have not been prepared to come on board with Mr Kassam because we have had a big bust-up. "Up until last week, which was the last time I spoke to him, all he had put in was the £1 he paid for the shares. "I don't like Mr Kassam and the way he has treated people. We think he has reacted in a disgraceful manner and has ridden roughshod over the other directors. "Ever since the Dean Windass sale, which was inevitable from the moment he said he wanted to leave, the problem was that Mr Kassam wouldn't guarantee putting any money in. "It was a problem for Malcolm Shotton who was told he would have money to spend but then didn't have, and it's a problem now. Malcolm is tearing his hair out because he can't go after any players and has only got about 11 or 12 fit ones for next season. "And as it stands now, Oxford United might not even get into the League's fixture list for next season," Mr Bower claimed. "The Football League need guarantees that you can complete the season but Mr Kassam is only prepared to work on a week-by-week basis. "He says everything depends on this multiplex cinema at the stadium and he has made it plain that if it doesn't get the go-ahead he will walk away. The four of us will put in well in excess of £1m. What we want is to secure the long-term future of the football club and if there's anyone else out there who wants to join us, we'd be pleased to hear from you. "Obviously you will need relatively substantial sums, but we will be happy for others to join." Mr Bower added: "I know the inner workings of the football club having been up there every day for the last few months. I wanted to come on to the board originally but I wasn't prepared to be perhaps as spineless as the other directors. " My feeling is that the staff want us but they are worried about their positions in case they have to work for Mr Kassam. But if they're brave enough, they will support us." Bower has written an open letter to Mr Kassam outlining his proposals. "All I am saying is that there is a choice. It is not Kassam or nothing. There are others who can help this club and the four of us can come in and replace Mr Kassam and hopefully give Malcolm a small amount to go out and sign some players. We are four fairly successful people who have got the resources and the option is there for you," he said. Mr Bailey and Mr Dewar are Beech Road season ticket holders at the Manor and last season Mr Rosenthal sponsored David Smith while Mr Dewar sponsored Kevin Francis. " FOUL spoke to them after they appeared, they claimed to have access to up to £1.5m, but had hold of only £120k at the time. The Club, as previouslty stated needed at least £4-5million that season. As much as those involved in the Gang of Four have since said they had access to more money, I'd throw back that they didn't have any guarantees nor were they seemingly upset that they walked away once they saw the massive financial hole and requirements to fill it.
|
|
|
Post by swissyellow on May 21, 2012 16:24:05 GMT
I've got no problem answering any questions SouthstandYellow, at the time stuff was sensitive and not for debate in the press as there was legal issues and contracts and what not, but now I don't see an issue laying everything open where I can remember.
As I said I was part of FOUL, there may be other members who don't agree with what I say or even correct any errors I may have written or laid out, the views are mine and mine alone.
Let's go back to the start, back in 98 I was on an Oxford web forum run by Mizuri? (sic) and the club was basically fooked. A few of us made a suggestion to meet in the old supporters club to see if anything could be done. Around 20-30 people turned up and a working group was formed. I seem to remember there was around 12 of us voted onto the FOUL committee, some more vocal than others over the years, myself I was more of a hod carrier, happy to hand out leaflets, sit in on meetings, take notes, support if you will. The committee had supporters of all ages, all backgrounds.
Also note that SOS was formed by another Oxford fan, who's name escapes me and his remit was to raise money and pay the wages of the staff and the players - who had gone unpaid for a while.
FOUL's first call was to raise awareness for the situation, The club needed saving and we needed someone to help. Oxford United was days away from going pop. We arranged things like the Vote for Malcom Shotton for Sports Personality of the Year in 98 and the absolutely critical town hall meeting. Having over 1,000 Oxford fans turn up to that meeting in Oxford Town hall swayed the local Council. We threatened to go up against them in local elections and they supported the club pretty unanimously in whatever needed doing.
Kassam appeared very soon after that meeting and then discussions were held with Kassam, Local politicians, national politicians, Oxford team management, Oxford fans at FOUL meetings and even the playing staff. Mark Watson and Pal Lundin were the most interested players at the time.
FOUL needed to do two things, one was to recruit members, the more people signed up to FOUL the more it became a powerful group, so recruitment drives at the Manor with the FOULmouth leaflets went on before lots of games that year. The second and most important was to ensure that Oxford United could continue and had a future.
Kassams plan started to be clearer, buy the club, re-start the stadium and do a deal on the land next to the ground.
The Gang of Four appeared, all nice chaps, met with FOUL, which at the time was a committee of 12 and a membership of over 1,000. As I said before I genuinely think they had the best intentions but no real capital to invest, they also seem to be unaware of some key pieces of information relating to problems with the Manor. These were pointed out to them and debated, they did not seem that upset at being told that Kassam was probably the more viable route.
On to the decision FOUL took, well that was debated at length, Do we go with the unknown who was asking for a lot or do we go with the GO4 who promised a lot but had very little to go on.
Think of it this way: your foot has gangrene, it's going to kill you. Do you either go with the surgeon who's going to take your leg off but ultimately ensure your survival or the friend who thinks he can get someone to stop the gangrene as he's heard there is a cure somewhere. You have to make that call now.
Kassam was chosen. Even then, 2 years of hell continued as the local land owners, and the Oxpens group all tried to halt the move, court cases, Judicial Reviews, endless meetings before work finally restarted. FOUL went through various tweaks and changes with new committee members coming and going during this time but the membership remained very high.
We finally moved into the ground, we were offered free season tickets from Kassam, we refused and all slowly spread back into our areas of the KasStad. Our job was done and it was time to move on and let someone else take the strain. Some have gone on to work for the club in the years since, all were very decent and superb people who were clever, skilled and passionate for Oxford.
And that's the key thing for me, I was merely a bit part, a face in the background, some of the guys gave 2-3 years of their life to saving the football club. I'll always be very grateful for them, we exist because they put in that shift.
|
|
|
Post by swissyellow on May 21, 2012 16:26:33 GMT
Correct Oxeter, that was one of the huge holes in the Gang of Four, the money they had would have lasted one season, they did not have a plan to beat the debt. They wanted to manage it but were not aware of a number of key issues with the Manor. Their plan was floored.
|
|
|
Post by Colin B on May 21, 2012 18:15:25 GMT
All very interesting stuff, particularly from Swiss Yellow. I do hope no one thinks I'm having a dig at him, or FOUL, as all acted in the best interests of the club, with the information to hand at the time. Neither am I playing devil's advocate, just for the sake of it.
But I have spoken with Gof4 members since, and their £120,000 or so would have been the seed capital, they clearly didn't intend to just stop at that. I have also had dealings with kassam, so do feel in some way qualified to pass the following comment. Which is, that kassam had an eye for the main chance from day one, he played Mr Nice Guy when he needed to, but reverted to type once this was either no longer working, or necessary. He, like many before him, and many since, found running a football club to be much more complex than a "normal" business. There are many things that he said that have been proven to be untrue, and many more which were designed to paint a certain picture.
I also think that he couldn't believe his luck when Nick Merry came along out of nowhere and bought the club without the stadium, thus leaving him still very much in control, but without the day to day aggro of running a football club. I actually think this decision has exacerbated the situation to the point that it is probably even less likely now to ever see the club and stadium in joint ownership than it was six and a half years ago.
Oh what a f*cking mess...........
|
|
|
Post by southstandyellow on May 21, 2012 18:23:28 GMT
One of the most interesting threads for some time, amongst most of the usual drivel on here. Very interesting to hear the viewpoints of people who were actively involved at the time. Does the FOUL literature/flyers etc still exist anywhere online or in print to read?
|
|
|
Post by swissyellow on May 21, 2012 18:32:17 GMT
Thumbs up Eric with your summary and I no I don't think you're having a go, I'm convinced that so much time as has since gone by that people have forgotten what happened. Going back to the original debate it's the Kassam= always bad point that I didn't agree with, he was bad but sometimes it's not always that defined.
Southstand, the FOUL website was taken down years ago, but I've got a pile of stuff in my loft somewhere. The club must have a documents area or at least a storeroom or cupboard of old documents and stuff too Always thought it would be nice for when we own our ground to have a little museum somewhere, open on match day... 10 or so display cabinets with bits and bobs in. There's an idea......
|
|
|
Post by southstandyellow on May 21, 2012 18:39:31 GMT
@swiss - get started on the museum ;-) oxymoron - sadly that link doesn't seem to be working :-(
|
|
|
Post by oxymoron on May 21, 2012 18:40:19 GMT
The old site has long since ceased to be supported by it's provider, but some of the pages have been saved in a sort of "internet archive".
You can view some of the "as it happened press releases and the like from the FOUL site by clicking here .
The news archive is a trawl - it would be called a "blog" nowadays, but it has a recurrent theme of incompetent manager, poor team selections and inflexible tactics - la plus ça change........
|
|
|
Post by Colin B on May 21, 2012 19:05:22 GMT
Yeah, I don't think we're actually disagreeing Swiss, merely coming at things from our differing experiences.
On the kassam = always bad issue, the thing I struggle with is the hiving off of the Ozone stuff, to himself. I firmly believe this was always his intention, and yet he said publicly otherwise. Interested to hear your views on this, ie what did he tell you guys?
|
|
|
Post by oxeter on May 21, 2012 21:37:46 GMT
What key issues with The Manor James? Bower was (assume still is) a solicitor who had spent lot of time with Kassam/in and around the club, I'd have thought he would have known all the legalities etc before shouting from the rooftops about the gang of four's desire to give Kassam his pound investment back? Correct Oxeter, that was one of the huge holes in the Gang of Four, the money they had would have lasted one season, they did not have a plan to beat the debt. They wanted to manage it but were not aware of a number of key issues with the Manor. Their plan was floored.
|
|
|
Post by scoob on May 21, 2012 22:21:21 GMT
Swissyellow and Southstand the possibility of a museum/display was something we discussed at the last Oxvox committee meeting and we will attempt to set up. See point 7: www.oxvox.org.uk/pageContent.aspx?id=136
|
|
|
Post by scoob on May 21, 2012 22:39:00 GMT
I also think that he couldn't believe his luck when Nick Merry came along out of nowhere and bought the club without the stadium, thus leaving him still very much in control, but without the day to day aggro of running a football club. I actually think this decision has exacerbated the situation to the point that it is probably even less likely now to ever see the club and stadium in joint ownership than it was six and a half years ago. Oh what a f*cking mess........... Spot on Eric. It is easy to comment with hindsight but if the club had been relegated to the Conference under Kassam's ownership he would have been facing disaster with average crowds below 4,000. He would have been begging for someone to take the club off his hands and may have used the Stadium as leverage for that. A couple of months of patience could have changed our history. The Stadium profits/cash generation have grown by over £100k since Kassam slapped the £13M price on it. Part of that valuation was based on a 5 times multiple of the annual cash generation and the service charge increase will add another £100k so we could be looking at £1M increase in his price even before any extra revenue from London Welsh. I believe that they will add at least 11 match days so Kassam will be able to sell addtional catering contracts and make more from the facilities. There is no motivation for him to sell at the moment.
|
|
|
Post by swissyellow on May 21, 2012 22:49:30 GMT
Eric, for the Ozone, what became pretty clear very quickly, was that Kassam wasn't going to complete or do anything without it, so it was a case of either pushing the Cinema project or starting all over again. What helped I suppose was that nearly everywhere you went people were supportive of the Cinema, be they Oxford fans or not. Especially in the Leys areas, loads of people wanted a multiplex in Oxford which helped massively.
Kassam from what I remember was using the Cinema project as a way of funding the ground, the later splitting of the ground from the club was a disaster.
I'd love to know how well Kassam perceives the deal, I still hear about all the empty units at the Ozone upstairs sitting unused and there were rumours that the West Stand (Car Park) had or has foundations in place for a casino under the stand, if that was to ever happen. From what I gather the Bowling alley is one of the busiest and Vue are happy with the footfall to the cinema.
Oxeter, issues with the Manor - they range from : Asbestos in the roof of the London Road which meant that the whole roof needed replacing, itself a job into the hundreds of thousands through to the Football League had given United special dispensation to stay at the Manor in the post Taylor report era - As you say, we were a Championship club at the time and the dispensation was given because building had started in the mid nineties. The Football League were at the time threatening to not give Oxford the correct certificates to play at the Manor without building work restarting. The plans mentioned included moving the club to Northampton or Wycombe.
Then you look at the Bank, with their 10M+ debt all secured on the Manor....
|
|
|
Post by swissyellow on May 21, 2012 22:54:19 GMT
Scoob, has anyone from Oxvox been in touch with the Museum of Oxford, they wanted ideas for new projects and exhibitions, I'm sure if enough Oxford fans asked, they'd get involved.
|
|
|
Post by Si Bradbury on May 22, 2012 11:09:20 GMT
Hi Swiss. OxVox are seriously considering the idea of a Museum and subject to approval could be the next part of the Heritage Project (following on from the Yellow Heritage Boards situated in the SS). It is something which we could do alongside Yellow Seats and other ideas to make the Kassam more like home. However, the LW move may see StadCo take a different view on it. Our membership will be surveyed on the options in the coming days. However, it is a great idea to potentially approach the Museum of Oxford and we could work together? Meanwhile in the Guardian yesterday further developments on the move. www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/may/21/london-welsh-rfu-bid-premiershipIt appears the RF PGB are split due to Welsh not potentially meeting the stipulations including primacy of tenure. The rugby club will not find out their fate until several hours before the first-leg against Cornish Pirates.
|
|
|
Post by Gary Baldi on May 22, 2012 12:30:27 GMT
You can still get on a version of the FOUL web site using Web Archive: web.archive.org/web/20031215061618/http://www.foul.org.uk/I'd think you'd never get an on the record view from Kassam on what he really thinks now and how it differed from then. He's far too cagey nowadays to open himself up and be honest. I'd be interested to know if he thinks the stadium and the hassle he has with it is worth it.
|
|
|
Post by scoob on May 22, 2012 15:44:42 GMT
I'd think you'd never get an on the record view from Kassam on what he really thinks now and how it differed from then. He's far too cagey nowadays to open himself up and be honest. I'd be interested to know if he thinks the stadium and the hassle he has with it is worth it. I imagine that he will be happy with the return on his investment which appears to be increasing all of the time. After interest of only £60k and tax of £40k the Stadco returned about £600k in cash to him last year. What the Stadium actually effectively cost him to build is debateable especially when you consider the sale of the Manor and the capital gains on the other areas of the development which he would not have had without the involvement with the club/stadium. According to my calculations from 1997 to 2005 the football club made a pre-interest profit of £161k after player sales but it paid £2.5M in interest with a significant amount of that going to Kassam companies. Also a net £700k of the stadium costs and £250k of legal costs show in the accounts and do not appear to have been transferred to the Stadco and were effectively taken over by WPL within the £2M of debt that they inherited. These articles gives a bit more background and some quotes from Kassam where he said he is proud of what he did: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2392615/Kassam-sitting-pretty-as-Oxfords-dream-turns-sour.htmlwww.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/mar/29/sport.comment
|
|
|
Post by jammydodger on May 22, 2012 17:09:36 GMT
If all rent is shared then that would be great more money to get the stadium I hope with a little to go on the player budget. But if we were to get the stafium wouldn't we be able to charge them for rent?
But would advertisement around the ground be shared?
The main problem I have is the pitch. I just don't want us to be playing on mud like Wigan do. I hope this rugby team are willing to pay for an improvent in the pitch.
Is the owner quite wealthy?
|
|
|
Post by ounykee14 on May 22, 2012 17:22:05 GMT
Is the owner quite wealthy? I posted an article about their ownership situation a few pages back, it wouldn't go amiss with our club really. To sum it up, someone came in, said they were backed by some big middle eastern oil owners, bought the club off the back of this, turned out the arabs didn't have a clue, he was potless, had the club taken off him, but somehow scraped together enough to get it back in court.
|
|