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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 11:41:58 GMT
Not sure you're a neutral if you've already dropped Arsenal out of the big 4...you can only really do that once they fail to finish in the top 4.
Wilshere? Arshavin? Arteta? Mertesacker? Sagna? Gervinho?
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Post by sihath on Oct 18, 2011 11:46:14 GMT
Let's move the debate on to the absolute defining factor - international football. The top tier of the game. Hernandez 22 in 32 RVP 25 in 60 Also Holland are arguably a team with better players than Mexico so RVP's conversion rate should be significantly better but it's far worse. Hernandez is near enough level with him in 30 less games. It's an astonishing mis-match. Hernandez has scored against Brazil, Germany, France, Argentina, Spain and Italy, a really mpressive array of opponents. RVP has barely scored an international goal of note. Can you please provide a link showing that he's scored against Brazil, Germany and Italy because I think you may be wrong about him scoring against any of them. As of 2nd September 2011. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Hern%C3%A1ndez_Balc%C3%A1zar#International_goalsSo unless he's scored goals against Brazil, Germany and Italy in the last 6 weeks, you're talking rubbish to back up your argument in the hope that no-one will challenge you on it. I stand to be corrected. EDIT. He has scored a goal IN Germany, but that's not the same as scoring AGAINST Germany.
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Post by Aussie Yellow on Oct 18, 2011 11:48:04 GMT
Van Persie is the only player Arsenal have that would be capable of playing for one of the big four (Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool). That is my honest opinion as a neutral (I'm an Oxford fan by the way). Not sure you can include Liverpool in the 'Big 4' anymore.
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Post by Aussie Yellow on Oct 18, 2011 11:49:24 GMT
Looking at that list, he has scored half of his international goals against nations outside the Top 75...
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Post by sihath on Oct 18, 2011 11:53:45 GMT
Looking at that list, he has scored half of his international goals against nations outside the Top 75... Unless Baldy has a different list? Perhaps that one is inaccurate?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 12:01:10 GMT
who cares? statistics don't tell the whole story
No list of teams Hernandez has scored against is going to convince anyone that he is already on van Persie's level (and thats not to say he isn't an awesome talent, one of the best young players around)
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Post by Boogaloo on Oct 18, 2011 12:11:14 GMT
I can't believe we are having this discussion as to who is better - Van Persie or Hernandez. Van Persie is MILES ahead - no question about it. Sure, Hernandez is young and will one day eclipse him (when RVP is in his late 30's), but it's a bit like saying that Wilshere is better than Xavi. It's absolutely ludicrous!
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Post by SteMerritt on Oct 18, 2011 12:40:38 GMT
Looking at that list, he has scored half of his international goals against nations outside the Top 75... Unless Baldy has a different list? Perhaps that one is inaccurate? What you also have to take into account is, according to Baldy, if you score in a 3 or 4 goal win, that doesn't count either (see arguments about Sturridge), so you can take off 2 against Bolivia (5-0), 2 against Gambia (5-1), 3 against El Salvador (5-0) and 2 against Cuba (5-0). That's 9 off his total right there.
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Post by moobs on Oct 18, 2011 13:08:20 GMT
Van Persie is the only player Arsenal have that would be capable of playing for one of the big four (Man U, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool). That is my honest opinion as a neutral (I'm an Oxford fan by the way). I think Wilshere would easily get in those teams, he's the new Scholes so would fit in Man U's team nicely. What about Vermaelen? Easily as good as Vidic Sagna is the best right back in the prem and would walk into any other side
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 13:20:03 GMT
Ignoring the silliness in that post, I'd totally forgotten about Vermaelen. With all the talk of Arsenals demise you forget that they have some very big players out injured. With them back and add a signing or two in January and I reckon they could still sneak into 4th place.
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Post by Beav on Oct 18, 2011 13:43:07 GMT
Ignoring the silliness in that post, I'd totally forgotten about Vermaelen. With all the talk of Arsenals demise you forget that they have some very big players out injured. With them back and add a signing or two in January and I reckon they could still sneak into 4th place. Sagna is never the best RB. I'd prefer Martin Kelly or even Walker! I'd say Rafael is probably the best in the PL which isn't rich with choice of RBs.
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Post by junior1 on Oct 18, 2011 13:54:23 GMT
No one has mentioned rvp 4 v San Marino or 3 v Hungary.... Shall we take 7 off?
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Post by junior1 on Oct 18, 2011 13:55:01 GMT
Best rb in the perm is from Manchester..... Manchester city's Micah Richards
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 14:03:02 GMT
no Rafael definately has the best perm
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Post by sihath on Oct 18, 2011 14:18:22 GMT
No one has mentioned rvp 4 v San Marino or 3 v Hungary.... Shall we take 7 off? Junior Can you find any evidence of Hernandez scoring against Brazil, Germany or Italy?
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Post by Lone Gunman on Oct 18, 2011 14:18:39 GMT
Ignoring the silliness in that post, I'd totally forgotten about Vermaelen. With all the talk of Arsenals demise you forget that they have some very big players out injured. With them back and add a signing or two in January and I reckon they could still sneak into 4th place. Sagna is never the best RB. I'd prefer Martin Kelly or even Walker! I'd say Rafael is probably the best in the PL which isn't rich with choice of RBs. Rafael! You're starting to sound like baldy beav. The lad has potential but at the moment he is a liability because he can't keep his temper under control.
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Post by Aussie Yellow on Oct 18, 2011 14:30:57 GMT
No one has mentioned rvp 4 v San Marino or 3 v Hungary.... Shall we take 7 off? Only 6 of Hernandez's goals have been against opponents ranked higher than Hungary...
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Post by sihath on Oct 18, 2011 15:14:42 GMT
No one has mentioned rvp 4 v San Marino or 3 v Hungary.... Shall we take 7 off? Only 6 of Hernandez's goals have been against opponents ranked higher than Hungary... That can't be right. He only scores against top sides.
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Post by junior1 on Oct 18, 2011 15:28:37 GMT
And rvp??
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 15:29:33 GMT
I heard this quote the other day:
Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital
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Post by moobs on Oct 18, 2011 15:36:32 GMT
Best rb in the perm is from Manchester..... Manchester city's Micah Richards Who can't even get in a poor England team.... Sagna is France's No.1 RB. No debate to be had here I feel
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Post by sihath on Oct 18, 2011 15:46:34 GMT
Seeing as how people (Baldy) are making up statements to back up their arguments, here goes. RVP scored 15 goals in the last world cup including a double hat-trick against a World 11 to win the World Cup final. How's that? And they got Bentner to act as tea boy.
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Post by junior1 on Oct 18, 2011 16:26:44 GMT
Best rb in the perm is from Manchester..... Manchester city's Micah Richards Who can't even get in a poor England team.... Sagna is France's No.1 RB. No debate to be had here I feel And France are what at the moment....
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Post by hairy on Oct 18, 2011 16:27:28 GMT
Best rb in the perm is from Manchester..... Manchester city's Micah Richards Who can't even get in a poor England team.... Sagna is France's No.1 RB. No debate to be had here I feel Isnt boasting about having the best RB a sign of how desperately poor Arsenal have become in the space of 9 months? As for still including Arsenal in a "top four" that requires you to believe they are better than the team who are currently top and are the FA cup holders.
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Post by junior1 on Oct 18, 2011 16:30:05 GMT
England are a better team than France.. Even the rankings say so.. 8th v 12th
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Post by Lone Gunman on Oct 18, 2011 16:39:28 GMT
England are a better team than France.. Even the rankings say so.. 8th v 12th I still reckon France would beat us were we to play them though.
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Post by junior1 on Oct 18, 2011 16:50:04 GMT
Based on?
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Post by Lone Gunman on Oct 18, 2011 16:54:39 GMT
You think we'd beat them then?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2011 16:57:29 GMT
England are a better team than France.. Even the rankings say so.. 8th v 12th Even the rankings, wow.
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Post by Young Money on Oct 18, 2011 16:59:22 GMT
Ignoring the silliness in that post, I'd totally forgotten about Vermaelen. With all the talk of Arsenals demise you forget that they have some very big players out injured. With them back and add a signing or two in January and I reckon they could still sneak into 4th place. Sagna is never the best RB. I'd prefer Martin Kelly or even Walker! I'd say Rafael is probably the best in the PL which isn't rich with choice of RBs. Martin Kelly?! Best right backs in the prem are Sagna, Richards, Ivanovich, Boswinga and, emergingly, Walker. Not in that order.
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