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Post by moobs on Oct 16, 2011 17:31:57 GMT
A mesmerising performance and 2 sublime goals....showed exactly why he's best striker in the premiership
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Post by hablopicasso on Oct 16, 2011 17:41:15 GMT
He's a very, very good player. Arsenal will be praying that he stays fit, he's carrying them a bit.
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Post by Chris1986 on Oct 16, 2011 17:47:38 GMT
Just seen the goals on sky. The chip that hit the post would have been a sublime goal if it had rolled the other side of the line. I can't believe players are still whipping their shirts off when they score though, that automatic yellow card for it has been around for years now I'd be furious as a manager with players giving away such cheap yellow cards.
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Post by moobs on Oct 16, 2011 18:33:40 GMT
and, unlike some, you don't need a psychotic side to be a top striker
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Post by verbal kint on Oct 16, 2011 20:46:32 GMT
And the latest gooner to be stalling on a contract
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Post by moobs on Oct 16, 2011 21:38:11 GMT
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Post by Beav on Oct 16, 2011 21:44:04 GMT
A mesmerising performance and 2 sublime goals....showed exactly why he's best striker in the premiership You forgot to add 'in my opinion'. You know the bitchfit that'll break out if you don't.
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Post by baldy on Oct 16, 2011 22:06:53 GMT
A mesmerising performance and 2 sublime goals....showed exactly why he's best striker in the premiership Really ? For starters it was Sunderland. RVP is the epitome of 'Goes missing agains the big boys'. If your remit of the best in the PL is RVP today then perhaps you should look at the countless free kicks Rooney has curled into the top corners. Was his first goal really that 'sublime' ? Looked like a slash at the ball and a shot that went pretty cental and one the keeper should have chucked his cap on. RVP is not in the top three let alone the best. Two at Man U are superior for starters. He may score the more occasional eye catching goals than Hernandez but he isn't in the same class when it comes to a strikers primary job - outright finishing.
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Post by longliveclarkey on Oct 16, 2011 22:27:26 GMT
A mesmerising performance and 2 sublime goals....showed exactly why he's best striker in the premiership Really ? For starters it was Sunderland. RVP is the epitome of 'Goes missing agains the big boys'. If your remit of the best in the PL is RVP today then perhaps you should look at the countless free kicks Rooney has curled into the top corners. Was his first goal really that 'sublime' ? Looked like a slash at the ball and a shot that went pretty cental and one the keeper should have chucked his cap on. RVP is not in the top three let alone the best. Two at Man U are superior for starters. He may score the more occasional eye catching goals than Hernandez but he isn't in the same class when it comes to a strikers primary job - outright finishing. I dislike getting involved in these arguments but I just can't agree with that. In the league last season, Van Persie scored 18 in 25 and Hernandez scored 13 in 27. Van Persie comes out far better. In all competitions, Hernandez had 20 in 45 and Van Persie had 22 in 33. Still much better. So far this season, Van Persie has 5 from 8 in the league (7 in 11 in all competitions) and Hernandez has 3 from 7 in the league (3 from 8 in all competitions). Van Persie was the better goalscorer last season and still is now, and Van Persie certainly adds more from a non-goalscoring perspective too. Not as good as Rooney, but he's up there with the best in the league.
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Post by baldy on Oct 16, 2011 22:41:47 GMT
Really ? For starters it was Sunderland. RVP is the epitome of 'Goes missing agains the big boys'. If your remit of the best in the PL is RVP today then perhaps you should look at the countless free kicks Rooney has curled into the top corners. Was his first goal really that 'sublime' ? Looked like a slash at the ball and a shot that went pretty cental and one the keeper should have chucked his cap on. RVP is not in the top three let alone the best. Two at Man U are superior for starters. He may score the more occasional eye catching goals than Hernandez but he isn't in the same class when it comes to a strikers primary job - outright finishing. I dislike getting involved in these arguments but I just can't agree with that. In the league last season, Van Persie scored 18 in 25 and Hernandez scored 13 in 27. Van Persie comes out far better. In all competitions, Hernandez had 20 in 45 and Van Persie had 22 in 33. Still much better. So far this season, Van Persie has 5 from 8 in the league (7 in 11 in all competitions) and Hernandez has 3 from 7 in the league (3 from 8 in all competitions). Van Persie was the better goalscorer last season and still is now, and Van Persie certainly adds more from a non-goalscoring perspective too. Not as good as Rooney, but he's up there with the best in the league. I don't think those figures are right and anyway what quota are penalties ? Hernandez scores massive goals in the context of the importance of the fixture. While I accept you will not see Hernandez scoring as spectacular goals as RVP you will not in a million years see RVP getting on the end of half chances in the way Hernandez does and if we are talking raw striking quality then that, snapping up half chances, is the bread and butter and Hernandez is the better at it. RVP is better technically I accept that but that wasnt the claim by Moobs, he was talking best striker. Definition of striker is right time, right place finishing and that is Hernandez all day long.
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Post by longliveclarkey on Oct 16, 2011 22:52:31 GMT
I dislike getting involved in these arguments but I just can't agree with that. In the league last season, Van Persie scored 18 in 25 and Hernandez scored 13 in 27. Van Persie comes out far better. In all competitions, Hernandez had 20 in 45 and Van Persie had 22 in 33. Still much better. So far this season, Van Persie has 5 from 8 in the league (7 in 11 in all competitions) and Hernandez has 3 from 7 in the league (3 from 8 in all competitions). Van Persie was the better goalscorer last season and still is now, and Van Persie certainly adds more from a non-goalscoring perspective too. Not as good as Rooney, but he's up there with the best in the league. I don't think those figures are right and anyway what quota are penalties ? Hernandez scores massive goals in the context of the importance of the fixture. While I accept you will not see Hernandez scoring as spectacular goals as RVP you will not in a million years see RVP getting on the end of half chances in the way Hernandez does and if we are talking raw striking quality then that, snapping up half chances, is the bread and butter and Hernandez is the better at it. RVP is better technically I accept that but that wasnt the claim by Moobs, he was talking best striker. Definition of striker is right time, right place finishing and that is Hernandez all day long. I can assure you they are right. Double checked from good ol' wiki against sources from the Arsenal page, Man United page and Premier League statistics just to be extra safe. To me, if Van Persie is playing better in the same position as Hernandez, it can't make any sense to say he's a worse player in that position. Finishing is just one aspect of a striker's play, it's been that way for years now. Maybe you could find a few sources to suggest that Van Persie scores less 'bread and butter' finishes, because I can't help but feel that's based a bit on feeling rather than fact. But it doesn't matter, a goal is a goal is a goal and if Van Persie scores more goals in less games in the way he has, he's a better goalscorer. It's pretty simple. Definitely the better striker of the two, though again still behind Rooney and probably a couple of others.
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Post by moobs on Oct 16, 2011 23:06:39 GMT
Baldy - you've made my night - that was laughable in the extreme.
van Persie is better than Hernandez and Rooney put together. His vision, positional sense, eye for goal and natural ability is leagues better.
What you're saying is almost like saying Andy Cole is / was better than Denis Bergkamp because put the ball on a plate and he'll stick it in the goal when, anyone with a brain knows the latter had more ability in his index finger.
How many world cup finals have Rooney / Hernandez played in?
I think our views on what constitutes a great player are poles apart
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Post by junior1 on Oct 17, 2011 0:02:26 GMT
LLC they may be backed up stats but you didn't mention how many were pens?
Moobs, lose the played in a world cup final line, it's tedious. What chance have Mexico got of reaching the final, none!
On that note, where in his peak would rate eto? Remember he didn't play in a WC final..
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Post by Lone Gunman on Oct 17, 2011 0:15:00 GMT
Moobs is excelling himself here! You have to take your hat off to the lad getting junior and baldy foaming at the mouth in just an afternoon. What does he do for an encore!?
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Post by junior1 on Oct 17, 2011 0:20:28 GMT
If you believe that LG you are more backwards than I first thought!
As for biting you are the easiest round here to nibble away at bait set for you... Sweet dreams... X
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Post by baldy on Oct 17, 2011 7:22:39 GMT
Baldy - you've made my night - that was laughable in the extreme. van Persie is better than Hernandez and Rooney put together. His vision, positional sense, eye for goal and natural ability is leagues better. What you're saying is almost like saying Andy Cole is / was better than Denis Bergkamp because put the ball on a plate and he'll stick it in the goal when, anyone with a brain knows the latter had more ability in his index finger. How many world cup finals have Rooney / Hernandez played in? I think our views on what constitutes a great player are poles apart More natural ability than Rooney !!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D I'm struggling to think of a striker, Messi aside, in the entire world with more natural talent than Rooney let alone one from a mid table PL side. World Cup finals ? - Stephane Guivarc'h. Why do you never respond when I point that out every single time you mention a world cup ? Your ridiculous obsession with world cup finals totally undermines any remote possibility that you actually have a clue what you are talking about.
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Post by longliveclarkey on Oct 17, 2011 7:35:26 GMT
LLC they may be backed up stats but you didn't mention how many were pens? Moobs, lose the played in a world cup final line, it's tedious. What chance have Mexico got of reaching the final, none! On that note, where in his peak would rate eto? Remember he didn't play in a WC final.. I'll preface this by saying, yet again, a goal is a goal is a goal. From a penalty spot or not. Craddock's goalscoring record for Oxford looks worse if you take out the penalties, but you don't take it out because taking penalties requires a great deal of composure and skill. It's just another type of finishing. Would Hernandez score all those penalties? I'm not sure. I'm really struggling to find any stats, in fact. If someone could find them I'd appreciate it, but as I say I don't think it matters where a goal comes from. I'm sure in Rooney's case you wouldn't discount some of his goals purely because they came from the penalty spot.
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Post by SteMerritt on Oct 17, 2011 7:52:40 GMT
Clarkey, you know what your problem is? You are bringing facts to a 'willy-waving' contest. Don't you realise that if a player plays for Man Utd, then they are by default the best player in their position in Europe, if not the world. Just because RVP scores more in less games, because he doesn't play for Man Utd it means he, by definition, can't be the best in the PL, in Europe, or possibly in the world.
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Post by junior1 on Oct 17, 2011 8:06:00 GMT
Yes taking pens is a skill bur let's not pretend that they can make a players goal return better than it actually is.
For the record, how many has rvp stuck away?
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Post by longliveclarkey on Oct 17, 2011 8:19:30 GMT
Can't find any stats on that, as I said.
I don't quite understand the point you're making though. Goals from penalties count less? Entirely disagree. It's just as much of a skill as being in the right place at the right time in Hernandez fashion, or carving out tricky chances from the edge of the box as many other strikers do. It's all part of being a goalscorer, and that is the main job of a striker. I'm not going to discount any goals Craddock has scored from the penalty spot, as I think it's an equally potent goalscoring skill, and I'll apply it equally to Rooney, Van Persie, or even Hernandez if he starts taking penalties. They all count the same.
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Post by baldy on Oct 17, 2011 8:24:43 GMT
Can't find any stats on that, as I said. I don't quite understand the point you're making though. Goals from penalties count less? Entirely disagree. It's just as much of a skill as being in the right place at the right time in Hernandez fashion, or carving out tricky chances from the edge of the box as many other strikers do. It's all part of being a goalscorer, and that is the main job of a striker. I'm not going to discount any goals Craddock has scored from the penalty spot, as I think it's an equally potent goalscoring skill, and I'll apply it equally to Rooney, Van Persie, or even Hernandez if he starts taking penalties. They all count the same. Is that comment deliberately stupid or are we meant to take it seriously ? Let me know then I can respond.
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Post by moobs on Oct 17, 2011 9:00:14 GMT
Wasn't Junior arguing on the Messi debate that's its all about goals scored?
So his opinion is now the opposite just to suit this debate
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2011 9:05:07 GMT
van persies goal scoring record is sensational over the last couple of years, especially considering his injuries and the fact that this season he's been playing in a relatively poor team. RVP v Rooney is a close one, but its quite ridiculous to say Hernandez is better (although he may well go on to be)
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Post by Boogaloo on Oct 17, 2011 9:07:31 GMT
Can't find any stats on that, as I said. I don't quite understand the point you're making though. Goals from penalties count less? Entirely disagree. It's just as much of a skill as being in the right place at the right time in Hernandez fashion, or carving out tricky chances from the edge of the box as many other strikers do. It's all part of being a goalscorer, and that is the main job of a striker. I'm not going to discount any goals Craddock has scored from the penalty spot, as I think it's an equally potent goalscoring skill, and I'll apply it equally to Rooney, Van Persie, or even Hernandez if he starts taking penalties. They all count the same. Is that comment deliberately stupid or are we meant to take it seriously ? Let me know then I can respond. Let's roll this back five or ten years where the two best strikers in the Premier League were Thierry Henry and Ruud Van Nistelrooy. I'm guessing by your logic that must mean RVN isn't fit to lace Henry's boots. For what it's worth, I don't think there's a lot to choose between the two. Sure RVN is never going to win the Match of The Day goal of the month competition, but having said that whether it's a 30 yard screamer or a tap in from 1 yard out the outcome is the same - 1 Goal. Being a poacher like Lineker, RVN, Robbie Fowler IS actually a skill within itself. It's about reading the game, being in the right place at the right time having the quickness of mind to get there before the defenders and keeper and trying to guess where the ball is going to fall. Anyway I can't believe I'm on here defending a Man Utd player, but the point I'm making is it doesn't matter how the goals are produced - it's getting the goals that matters.
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Post by unification on Oct 17, 2011 9:08:50 GMT
I just thought about replying to this thread, but then considered I have much better things to do than argue with some of the most blinkered individuals on this forum.
'Van Persie better than Rooney and Hernandez put together'? 'Van Persie's record is only backed up by penalties'? Various subjective claptrap from Baldy about Hernandez, half chances etc.
To get to the crux of the matter, you have to unhook all of the nonsense chatted so far. I'll leave LLC to fight the losing battle - he's outlined the most sensible posts so far!
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Post by longliveclarkey on Oct 17, 2011 9:10:32 GMT
I just thought about replying to this thread, but then considered I have much better things to do than argue with some of the most blinkered individuals on this forum. 'Van Persie better than Rooney and Hernandez put together'? 'Van Persie's record is only backed up by penalties'? Various subjective claptrap from Baldy about Hernandez, half chances etc. To get to the crux of the matter, you have to unhook all of the nonsense chatted so far. I'll leave LLC to fight the losing battle - he's outlined the most sensible posts so far! Alas, baldy's now decided to avoid responding to my points and instead insult me. I think I'm gonna have to leave this well alone before the inevitable slanging match starts up again.
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Post by moobs on Oct 17, 2011 9:13:27 GMT
Boogaloo, I think you've lost the plot comparing Henry and van Nistelrooy. Henry was worth 10 of van Nistelrooy. I know Man U fans that didn't even like RVN because they didn't win much when he was there
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Post by sihath on Oct 17, 2011 9:14:40 GMT
I would have thought that the best GOALSCORER is the one who score MOST GOALS.
Number of goals divided by the number of games (or minutes played) = goal ratio.
Baldy. Can you explain what method you are using to define the best goal scorer?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2011 9:21:43 GMT
Baldy. Can you explain what method you are using to define the best goal scorer? Baldy's method of defining the best player seems pretty obvious to me!
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Post by Boogaloo on Oct 17, 2011 9:56:32 GMT
I would have thought that the best GOALSCORER is the one who score MOST GOALS. Number of goals divided by the number of games (or minutes played) = goal ratio. Baldy. Can you explain what method you are using to define the best goal scorer? He uses a pretty complex mathematical formula. Something like this:- skill = (12v + 5o + g + a) x T Where:- v= Violent incidents comitted by the player that warrant or should have warranted a red-card o = Number of obscenities uttered throughout the course of the match g = goals scored a = assists T = Team adjustment index where Man Utd = 5, any other Prem team (excl Arsenal) = 1, any other team down to and including Blue Square Premier league = 0.5 and Arsenal = -10 I hope this has been informative for you.
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