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Post by pottersrightboot on Oct 18, 2017 18:38:55 GMT
The football we are playing deserves much better crowds.
We play in the right way, we don’t clog and we don’t waste time. We score goals and work hard.
Some of the stay always should come have a look. Whatever their back story.
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Post by HeyMcAleny on Oct 18, 2017 19:01:27 GMT
I believe that the major reason for the drop in attendance is due to the squeeze in disposable income. I understand why DE felt the need to raise prices, but for a great many people it's come at precisely the wrong time.
Household income has dropped hugely in the last year or so and consumer debt is increasing. Every day the news items on this increase and the warnings get more dire. It doesn't matter how much you love the club, if you don't have the cash you don't go.
I think that people are wildly wrong to blame this on apathy, and I suspect many are embarrassed to come on here and post that they can no longer afford to go to the games they would like to.
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Post by stokeu on Oct 18, 2017 19:27:44 GMT
if they could sort out paying universal credit credit quicker we would have an attendance of 20k+ every week. Sort it out Teresa
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Post by nptonexile (Northampton fan) on Oct 18, 2017 19:37:58 GMT
About what I was expecting, it is a Tuesday night I think attendances will be down this year but not as bad as they currently look, Northampton should be a good crowd, with Rotherham and Blackburn both being above the current average too. December only has 2 home games, Doncaster likely won't be a big crowd but Wigan will be, then January and February both have some big games and by then I see our averages being significantly higher than they are now We might bring a 'good crowd'...but only allocated 1,198 so limited in that sense! I helped get tickets, scarves advice blah blah for five or six of our Swiss students last night. They were in the East Stand. Another two went to the rugby on Iffley Rd! 😆
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Post by brokeandobscure on Oct 18, 2017 20:31:39 GMT
On a seperate note, I thought it was a little flat last night (support wise). First 15 mins especially - of course, didn't help we we're being played off the park at that point. Was a decent rendition of Peps yellow army but if you actually listen, huge amount clap along and do not sing.... Very little interaction with away fans - even when they sing we are inbred with an Adams family song and we equalise straight after...no, "who are you", "you're not singing anymore" or anything really. Just continued on our merry way as if there were no away fans. As always - decent effort by some to get it going but last night just happened to notice - majority of stand claps and doesn't sing anywhere near enough and huge amount of our songs have exactly the same clapping rhythm.... I kind of agree, but the lads at the back of the east stand were trying to get things started from pretty much start to finish. Not much else they can do if no one joins in. Yellow Submarine and "Give Us an Ooooo" sounded loud from where I was standing, but perhaps it's all down to acoustics?
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 18, 2017 20:46:02 GMT
Was this the game the ultras we’re going to try a new area, or is that Saturday ?
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Post by Best Mate on Oct 18, 2017 20:49:05 GMT
They did - and fair play to them (as they do try every week). It was actually more of a slight at others as opposed to the guys at the back - (I am in H in the East Stand so further down but not a million miles away) for not joining in.
Agreed they were the loudest - perhaps we need to chuck in a few more anthem / 'singalong' tunes....but then again, "you are my Oxford" was chucked in a couple of times and didn't really catch on as it should.
I don't know - it probably just is 'what it is'. I used to always love night games, felt that you could hear songs piercing the air so much more clearer/ louder....then again, when you look back to when you were younger, you always remember fondly....
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Post by ouande on Oct 18, 2017 21:11:19 GMT
Crowds are 12% down. That’s not much. I reckon if you looked at last season with cup and interest growing the second half of the season would have higher attendances than the first half.
Higher prices will always affect demand even if it is to a small degree.
More teams up North would affect the away support.
Big fuss over nothing I think.
Haven’t been myself because whenever I look to go the train seems to cost £100 to away games (I live Bournemouth) or hugely unpredictable performances so decide against going to home games (its difficult to travel 180 mile round trip every week when you could be served crap)
I’ve thought about having a complete sport black out untill Monday and then watching the full replay on ifollow. Not managed to do it yet though.
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Post by saddletramp on Oct 18, 2017 21:26:16 GMT
For those interested in numbers, here's where we stand. Numbers are averages. 2016/17: 8,297 (7,474 home, 823 away) 17/10/17: 7,317 (6,650 home, 667 away) - Difference: -979 (-824 home, -155 away) The season after promotion always see's a spike in crowds,the season after always see's a drop. Last season at this time the average also included an 11,000+ crowd against the scum. The worrying thing about Tuesday's crowd,despite all the excuses made and reasons given,is that the much maligned MK Dons played the same night and got 500 more fans in attendance than us ! I'm sure all the reasons why people couldn't attend the breeze block on Tuesday apply to MK as well ?
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Post by gofish2 on Oct 18, 2017 21:40:13 GMT
Ive only been to two home games this season and last night I spent 56.00 for tickets (very good seats) 28.00 on, I think it was food, and 14.00 on drinks. 98.00 in total for 2 people. I would happily spend that on a meal in a good restaurant, but not every week. The thing is, expense is related to available income and although I don't think the overall cost is unreasonable for an evening out it depends on your personal budget and perhaps attendance figures reflect this.
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Post by makv on Oct 18, 2017 23:52:14 GMT
I got a text from a mate at the game somewhere else in the East Stand that I will paraphrase: "Some knobhead keeps loudly mispronouncing Ribiero's name as RIB-E-AERO every time he makes a mistake. What a cock". Oh, the irony.
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Post by eraser on Oct 19, 2017 1:27:25 GMT
For those interested in numbers, here's where we stand. Numbers are averages. 2016/17: 8,297 (7,474 home, 823 away) 17/10/17: 7,317 (6,650 home, 667 away) - Difference: -979 (-824 home, -155 away) The season after promotion always see's a spike in crowds,the season after always see's a drop. Last season at this time the average also included an 11,000+ crowd against the scum. The worrying thing about Tuesday's crowd,despite all the excuses made and reasons given,is that the much maligned MK Dons played the same night and got 500 more fans in attendance than us ! I'm sure all the reasons why people couldn't attend the breeze block on Tuesday apply to MK as well ? MK haven't hiked their ticket prices by 20% in certain areas - that's the difference! It's supply and demand, False economy to try and get more money from loyal fans whilst you have 5000 empty seats. Fill those seats = more merchandising sales and more support!
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 19, 2017 7:42:26 GMT
The season after promotion always see's a spike in crowds,the season after always see's a drop. Last season at this time the average also included an 11,000+ crowd against the scum. The worrying thing about Tuesday's crowd,despite all the excuses made and reasons given,is that the much maligned MK Dons played the same night and got 500 more fans in attendance than us ! I'm sure all the reasons why people couldn't attend the breeze block on Tuesday apply to MK as well ? MK haven't hiked their ticket prices by 20% in certain areas - that's the difference! It's supply and demand, False economy to try and get more money from loyal fans whilst you have 5000 empty seats. Fill those seats = more merchandising sales and more support! When we went to Mk adults were charged £22. An adult seat in the East Stand at Oxford is £22. The figures published do show that MK had more home fans than us on Tuesday but there has long been some debate about how many actually turn up and distribution of free tickets / cheap season tickets.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Oct 19, 2017 7:46:54 GMT
The season after promotion always see's a spike in crowds,the season after always see's a drop. Last season at this time the average also included an 11,000+ crowd against the scum. The worrying thing about Tuesday's crowd,despite all the excuses made and reasons given,is that the much maligned MK Dons played the same night and got 500 more fans in attendance than us ! I'm sure all the reasons why people couldn't attend the breeze block on Tuesday apply to MK as well ? MK haven't hiked their ticket prices by 20% in certain areas - that's the difference! It's supply and demand, False economy to try and get more money from loyal fans whilst you have 5000 empty seats. Fill those seats = more merchandising sales and more support! But they hike there attendance figures as well, even Winkleman has said that and with the proof at last years game between us and them at there’s the announcer announced an attendance of 14,000 when in fact there appeared to be approx 8,000
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 19, 2017 7:49:48 GMT
Ive only been to two home games this season and last night I spent 56.00 for tickets (very good seats) 28.00 on, I think it was food, and 14.00 on drinks. 98.00 in total for 2 people. I would happily spend that on a meal in a good restaurant, but not every week. The thing is, expense is related to available income and although I don't think the overall cost is unreasonable for an evening out it depends on your personal budget and perhaps attendance figures reflect this. It would have been possible though to have got in for £22 each and no-one is forced to buy food and drink at the ground. So that £98 could have been more than halved. There is also the cost of travel to the game of course and for some that is substantial.
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 19, 2017 7:55:13 GMT
Crowds are 12% down. That’s not much. I reckon if you looked at last season with cup and interest growing the second half of the season would have higher attendances than the first half. Higher prices will always affect demand even if it is to a small degree. More teams up North would affect the away support. Big fuss over nothing I think. Haven’t been myself because whenever I look to go the train seems to cost £100 to away games (I live Bournemouth) or hugely unpredictable performances so decide against going to home games (its difficult to travel 180 mile round trip every week when you could be served crap) I’ve thought about having a complete sport black out untill Monday and then watching the full replay on ifollow. Not managed to do it yet though. There's no 100% guarantee of anything in football and if it wasn't for an element of unpredictability wouldn't it be much more boring than it is? Currently though we're on very good form playing some excellent football with some very technically gifted players. That good form / entertainment may or may not continue on Saturday. We could be served crap or an absolute treat or something in between the two. Some fans will go whatever knowing the likelihood of crap being served up is high. Remember the Conference days.
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Post by ox4eva on Oct 19, 2017 8:01:08 GMT
Supposed to be windy on Saturday so I guess that will affect those who may attend and the wig wearers will definitely give it a miss!
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Post by ouande on Oct 19, 2017 8:14:11 GMT
Crowds are 12% down. That’s not much. I reckon if you looked at last season with cup and interest growing the second half of the season would have higher attendances than the first half. Higher prices will always affect demand even if it is to a small degree. More teams up North would affect the away support. Big fuss over nothing I think. Haven’t been myself because whenever I look to go the train seems to cost £100 to away games (I live Bournemouth) or hugely unpredictable performances so decide against going to home games (its difficult to travel 180 mile round trip every week when you could be served crap) I’ve thought about having a complete sport black out untill Monday and then watching the full replay on ifollow. Not managed to do it yet though. There's no 100% guarantee of anything in football and if it wasn't for an element of unpredictability wouldn't it be much more boring than it is? Currently though we're on very good form playing some excellent football with some very technically gifted players. That good form / entertainment may or may not continue on Saturday. We could be served crap or an absolute treat or something in between the two. Some fans will go whatever knowing the likelihood of crap being served up is high. Remember the Conference days. Ironically I went most frequently during the conference days, including Tonbridge Angels. I think age has something to do with it, less tolerance for a wasted day / money. Just wish we had more local away games, would love to do Reading, QPR, Bristol City and the like.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Oct 19, 2017 9:01:51 GMT
MK haven't hiked their ticket prices by 20% in certain areas - that's the difference! It's supply and demand, False economy to try and get more money from loyal fans whilst you have 5000 empty seats. Fill those seats = more merchandising sales and more support! But they hike there attendance figures as well, even Winkleman has said that and with the proof at last years game between us and them at there’s the announcer announced an attendance of 14,000 when in fact there appeared to be approx 8,000 Hi Baz. This comes up every season! Once again, quoted attendances are tickets issued, not bums on seats. As others have noted, MK sell a shed load of cheap season tickets and give loads away for free. Every one of those tickets counts in the attendance. If an attendance of 14,000 is announced, that's the number of tickets issued. There may well be 6,000 people in the ground, but that's because 8,000 ticket holders chose not to come. Seems MK do deliberately give the impression they have more fans than they do through their ticketing practice, but the quoted attendance is accurate by 'normal standards'.
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 19, 2017 9:24:10 GMT
There's no 100% guarantee of anything in football and if it wasn't for an element of unpredictability wouldn't it be much more boring than it is? Currently though we're on very good form playing some excellent football with some very technically gifted players. That good form / entertainment may or may not continue on Saturday. We could be served crap or an absolute treat or something in between the two. Some fans will go whatever knowing the likelihood of crap being served up is high. Remember the Conference days. Ironically I went most frequently during the conference days, including Tonbridge Angels. I think age has something to do with it, less tolerance for a wasted day / money. Just wish we had more local away games, would love to do Reading, QPR, Bristol City and the like. Years ago I worked with a Colchester United fan. He went to loads of games when they slipped into the Conference in the early '90s. A few years later when they were back in the football league I asked him if he was going to a particular game he replied that he "didn't go much now." I asked why not given he did go when they were not in the Football League. His answer was "they needed me more then than now". That stuck with me. We did have a rallying round of a kind, possibly inspired by Jim Smith's return when we dropped out of the League.
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Post by horseman on Oct 19, 2017 9:24:43 GMT
A Direct bus from the train station might be a good place to start..45 minutes tour of Oxford to get to the ground after a train journey..Then after the game stand and wait upwards of 20 minutes in the cold and possible rain waiting for buses then be packed in like sardines whilst you endure another tour of Oxford and hope that you make it for the last train home all this with a young child. Train + Bus + Food + Tickets around £75 An 8 hours + day for a 1.1/2 hours event it is also worth remembering that those with family do have other things to occupy their time and expenditure no matter how much fire in your belly.
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Post by sihath on Oct 19, 2017 9:32:05 GMT
But they hike there attendance figures as well, even Winkleman has said that and with the proof at last years game between us and them at there’s the announcer announced an attendance of 14,000 when in fact there appeared to be approx 8,000 Hi Baz. This comes up every season! Once again, quoted attendances are tickets issued, not bums on seats. As others have noted, MK sell a shed load of cheap season tickets and give loads away for free. Every one of those tickets counts in the attendance. If an attendance of 14,000 is announced, that's the number of tickets issued. There may well be 6,000 people in the ground, but that's because 8,000 ticket holders chose not to come. Seems MK do deliberately give the impression they have more fans than they do through their ticketing practice, but the quoted attendance is accurate by 'normal standards'.It even goes on in the PL. There was a story not that long ago where someone did a Freedom of Information request to find out how many people were actually at games. Man Utd, Arsenal and many others were announcing full houses and there were 15,000 empty seats at the game. Some of that was clubs forcing season ticket holders (or they'd lose their season tickets) to buy cup game tickets even if they didn't want to go.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Oct 19, 2017 9:36:13 GMT
Ironically I went most frequently during the conference days, including Tonbridge Angels. I think age has something to do with it, less tolerance for a wasted day / money. Just wish we had more local away games, would love to do Reading, QPR, Bristol City and the like. Years ago I worked with a Colchester United fan. He went to loads of games when they slipped into the Conference in the early '90s. A few years later when they were back in the football league I asked him if he was going to a particular game he replied that he "didn't go much now." I asked why not given he did go when they were not in the Football League. His answer was "they needed me more then than now". That stuck with me. We did have a rallying round of a kind, possibly inspired by Jim Smith's return when we dropped out of the League. I think I know how your colleague felt. There was a great feeling of 'the club needs us' when we dropped into the Conference. At the time there weren't as many ex-league clubs in tier five as there are now, so there was also the feeling that we were a big club at that level, which led to a certain amount of arrogance amongst our fans. This all added to the fun of going to sometimes tiny away grounds in relatively large numbers, sometimes outnumbering home fans. I remember going to places like Stafford and Salisbury and feeling proud to hear locals marvel at the size of our support. It was fun, even though the football wasn't great. After the first 18 games of the season undefeated who didn't think we were going straight back up. We were definitely too big to stay down longer than one season, weren't we?
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Post by Pete Burrett on Oct 19, 2017 9:38:24 GMT
Hi Baz. This comes up every season! Once again, quoted attendances are tickets issued, not bums on seats. As others have noted, MK sell a shed load of cheap season tickets and give loads away for free. Every one of those tickets counts in the attendance. If an attendance of 14,000 is announced, that's the number of tickets issued. There may well be 6,000 people in the ground, but that's because 8,000 ticket holders chose not to come. Seems MK do deliberately give the impression they have more fans than they do through their ticketing practice, but the quoted attendance is accurate by 'normal standards'.It even goes on in the PL. There was a story not that long ago where someone did a Freedom of Information request to find out how many people were actually at games. Man Utd, Arsenal and many others were announcing full houses and there were 15,000 empty seats at the game. Some of that was clubs forcing season ticket holders (or they'd lose their season tickets) to buy cup game tickets even if they didn't want to go. Indeed. I went to a midweek Arsenal v Wigan league cup match when Wigan were in the top flight. The official attendance was, as always, just over 60,000. I have no idea how many were actually there, but seemed to me the Emirates was less than half full.
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Post by unification on Oct 19, 2017 10:03:23 GMT
A Direct bus from the train station might be a good place to start..45 minutes tour of Oxford to get to the ground after a train journey..Then after the game stand and wait upwards of 20 minutes in the cold and possible rain waiting for buses then be packed in like sardines whilst you endure another tour of Oxford and hope that you make it for the last train home all this with a young child. Train + Bus + Food + Tickets around £75 An 8 hours + day for a 1.1/2 hours event it is also worth remembering that those with family do have other things to occupy their time and expenditure no matter how much fire in your belly. The public transport issue has always been a problem, even when we were at the Manor. Generally most football buses have been for the locals and even then the relationship between club and bus service provider has been far from perfect. Put simply, bus service providers don’t want drivers sat around for two hours waiting for the game to end whilst not providing any service. We always get talk of improvements in Oxford’s infrastructure but if I had a million for every pie-in-the-sky idea touted about trams, trains and new services, I’d be able to buy the Kassam! I don’t think it puts off too many overall, but I’m sure we’re not a great allure for an away fan who has visited the Kassam before. We have a neat ground with good views, although the away day experience is pretty drab from that end, I imagine. I think ST has it right above. We’re experiencing the lull two seasons after promotion. You can throw in a few other variables – northern centric league, short of feisty local encounters, price increases. However, the main one I think it that Oxford United very much have a ceiling of appeal at this level. We’re just not big enough to generate 10k every week at this level. Football interest has grown massively since 1990 in Oxfordshire with more middle class support frequenting games but I do think we have a limit. We’re never going to be Manchester United or Arsenal in support terms but there’s no reason why we can’t develop into a Wigan or Doncaster.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Oct 19, 2017 10:46:16 GMT
But they hike there attendance figures as well, even Winkleman has said that and with the proof at last years game between us and them at there’s the announcer announced an attendance of 14,000 when in fact there appeared to be approx 8,000 Hi Baz. This comes up every season! Once again, quoted attendances are tickets issued, not bums on seats. As others have noted, MK sell a shed load of cheap season tickets and give loads away for free. Every one of those tickets counts in the attendance. If an attendance of 14,000 is announced, that's the number of tickets issued. There may well be 6,000 people in the ground, but that's because 8,000 ticket holders chose not to come. Seems MK do deliberately give the impression they have more fans than they do through their ticketing practice, but the quoted attendance is accurate by 'normal standards'. Possibly could also to do with fiddling tax
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Post by paulbeasley on Oct 19, 2017 10:50:53 GMT
If the football was poor week in week out I could understand it. But it's not. To quote Karl Robinson - "“that’s the best Oxford team they have had for many, many years". Let's say the fixture was instead of Charlton an FA cup replay against a bigger club. How many would have been that bit more arsed - cost and transport issues would have been about the same wouldn't they. Anyway, Charlton are a big club for L1 and play decent football under Robinson so worth watching in their own right.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Oct 19, 2017 11:07:59 GMT
But attending matches isn't all about watching football, in fact it's not mainly about watching football for most of us un-committed supporters.
It's about a bundle of other things: to hear the gentrifiers it's about good access, nice warm seats, a safe, fun environment and atmosphere and top quality food and bevs, for proper supporters it's about a charged atmosphere, bit of menace in the air, recreational substances and shouting. Which ever way you look at that, we're fucked this season.
Furthermore, our management has done a noteworthy job of mismanaging PR - from Flaggate to the PR porkies, Eels unquestionable commitment and the utter, total black hole that is sales and marketing. And I haven't mentioned a hefty price hike while everyones income is dropping.
To echo one of somebody's interlocutors - 'when we went into the conference it felt like we were all in it together. It doesn't now'.
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Post by horseman on Oct 19, 2017 12:25:13 GMT
If the football was poor week in week out I could understand it. But it's not. To quote Karl Robinson - "“that’s the best Oxford team they have had for many, many years". Let's say the fixture was instead of Charlton an FA cup replay against a bigger club. How many would have been that bit more arsed - cost and transport issues would have been about the same wouldn't they. Anyway, Charlton are a big club for L1 and play decent football under Robinson so worth watching in their own right. An evening cup replay would make the situation worse for me due to possible extra 30 minutes.
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Post by Colin B on Oct 19, 2017 13:03:59 GMT
A bit of quick statistical comparison.
We have played six home games this season against teams that we also played last season. The aggregate attendance for those six games last season was 49,309 (average 8,218). Those same six fixtures this season have produced an aggregate attendance of 41,614 (average 6,936). This is down by 15.6% on last season. Now there are some mitigating circumstances, such as two midweek games this season verses one last season and the fact that last season Shrewsbury was last game of the season (usually a good crowd).
But, it is an alarming drop. I think second season syndrome is a factor, but this makes it all the more ridiculous that the club decided to increase ticket prices and not actively market ticket sales at a time when they should have been doing exactly the opposite. I find it both frustrating and depressing that we have messed this up when it was easier not to. Once people get out of the habit it's twice as hard to get them back into it.
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