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Post by charliesghost on Aug 8, 2017 6:45:12 GMT
I'm sorry but proof is in the pudding. Yea ruffs has improved but I think when you are looking to make the next step and get promoted then you need to make the next step. Ruffs is handy to have around and has improved massively! I don't think he will drop him straight away and I don't agree he should but think you will see ruffs being faded out the side. But why? Because he is English. Or, worse, from Oxfordshire? On the form of end of last season and this, he is one of our top 3 players. A box to box midfielder who, unlike ledson, has started to add goals to his game. Let's wait and see. Sweden have been a desperately poor side in recent times. Not a heap better than Scotland. And their league is similarly p*ss poor. Wouldn't make this lad a poor signing. Not at all. But it's totally wrong to say that the 23 year-old midfielder who dominated promotion-winning Millwall's midfield in late April needs to be 'faded out' for us to win promotion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 6:49:10 GMT
Still nothing on the BBC site yet
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Post by finlandia on Aug 8, 2017 6:51:14 GMT
I'm sorry but proof is in the pudding. Yea ruffs has improved but I think when you are looking to make the next step and get promoted then you need to make the next step. Ruffs is handy to have around and has improved massively! I don't think he will drop him straight away and I don't agree he should but think you will see ruffs being faded out the side. But why? Because he is English. Or, worse, from Oxfordshire? On the form of end of last season and this, he is one of our top 3 players. A box to box midfielder who, unlike ledson, has started to add goals to his game. Let's wait and see. Sweden have been a desperately poor side in recent times. Not a heap better than Scotland. And their league is similarly p*ss poor. Wouldn't make this lad a poor signing. Not at all. But it's totally wrong to say that the 23 year-old midfielder who dominated promotion-winning Millwall's midfield in late April needs to be 'faded out' for us to win promotion. With any player, it you get better you do. Same with Beano, etc. Ruffles has been very good, but he is not a full international. It's good to have competition for places. It's used to be only for the top division, but the depth of squad in this league is important. Our squad is stronger than it was last year. It's looking decent already.
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Post by charliesghost on Aug 8, 2017 6:55:56 GMT
When you say that it makes me realise just how far we've come. There was nothing more depressing than hearing a large contingent of fans hero worship a man so bereft of pace and talent It was a sign of how far we had fallen that players like whingy, Creighton and Beano became instant heroes just for trying hard. In those days, the idea of players of the class of even magilton, joey, Melville had become a distant and sad memory. To be able to look forward to seeing Payne, Johnson, hall, Nelson, ledson etc tonight is just great. Ok, so it's not quite back to Melville, joey and magilton, let alone Houghton, hebberd, langan, Hamilton and Aldridge, but given the dark place we've come from, it feels pretty good.
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Post by charliesghost on Aug 8, 2017 6:57:49 GMT
But why? Because he is English. Or, worse, from Oxfordshire? On the form of end of last season and this, he is one of our top 3 players. A box to box midfielder who, unlike ledson, has started to add goals to his game. Let's wait and see. Sweden have been a desperately poor side in recent times. Not a heap better than Scotland. And their league is similarly p*ss poor. Wouldn't make this lad a poor signing. Not at all. But it's totally wrong to say that the 23 year-old midfielder who dominated promotion-winning Millwall's midfield in late April needs to be 'faded out' for us to win promotion. With any player, it you get better you do. Same with Beano, etc. Ruffles has been very good, but he is not a full international. It's good to have competition for places. It's used to be only for the top division, but the depth of squad in this league is important. Our squad is stronger than it was last year. It's looking decent already. Let's test your logic, shall we? Full international is better than non international. So Maguire is better than Payne. Now, let's try again. And this time apply the brain.
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Post by charliesghost on Aug 8, 2017 7:03:23 GMT
With any player, it you get better you do. Same with Beano, etc. Ruffles has been very good, but he is not a full international. It's good to have competition for places. It's used to be only for the top division, but the depth of squad in this league is important. Our squad is stronger than it was last year. It's looking decent already. Let's test your logic, shall we? Full international is better than non international. So Maguire is better than Payne. Now, let's try again. And this time apply the brain. Erm. How about: we traded down by swapping Eastwood for buchel, because buchel is a full international. Or: I wish we had had Grebis instead of Tommy Mooney. Full international!
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Post by duffy13 on Aug 8, 2017 7:07:55 GMT
With any player, it you get better you do. Same with Beano, etc. Ruffles has been very good, but he is not a full international. It's good to have competition for places. It's used to be only for the top division, but the depth of squad in this league is important. Our squad is stronger than it was last year. It's looking decent already. Let's test your logic, shall we? Full international is better than non international. So Maguire is better than Payne. Now, let's try again. And this time apply the brain. Or... you could be slightly realistic with your example and not use quite such ridiculous ones. How about comparing a non-international with an international where they're of a rough similar age and likeliness to play for their country. Funnily enough, the international will be the better player. Who'd have thought?
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Post by finlandia on Aug 8, 2017 7:09:17 GMT
I know it's hard, but don't be a dick all your life. If you can't get into a proper debate without insults, maybe you should do your normal disappearing trick for a few weeks.
By default, yes a full international is better than a non international. By your logic, Tom Cleverley, Leon Osman Gerrard are all worse than Ruffles? They all played the last time we played Sweden and lost 4-2.
I know you are obsessed by Ruffles, but if we get a player who the boss thinks is better, then Ruffles will be dropped. If he doesn't he will play.
The same rule applies in most walks of like. In business, to be successful, you get better staff in as you grow.
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 8, 2017 7:15:16 GMT
Let's test your logic, shall we? Full international is better than non international. So Maguire is better than Payne. Now, let's try again. And this time apply the brain. Or... you could be slightly realistic with your example and not use quite such ridiculous ones. How about comparing a non-international with an international where they're of a rough similar age and likeliness to play for their country. Funnily enough, the international will be the better player. Who'd have thought? Not sure on that. It would all depend on the level of the international side. Is cod better than Johno as he has 1 Irish cap ?? I'm a big fan of ruffels, but if we can get better, or even competition for his place then great, should always be looking to improve. But I'd still play ruffels until his form warrants dropping, not just shove him out. We did the same last season, ruffs had been playing well and as soon as lunny or lego can't remember which came back they were straight in the squad and we looked poor for a few games while they got uk to speed
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Post by duffy13 on Aug 8, 2017 7:30:02 GMT
Or... you could be slightly realistic with your example and not use quite such ridiculous ones. How about comparing a non-international with an international where they're of a rough similar age and likeliness to play for their country. Funnily enough, the international will be the better player. Who'd have thought? Not sure on that. It would all depend on the level of the international side. Is cod better than Johno as he has 1 Irish cap ?? I'm a big fan of ruffels, but if we can get better, or even competition for his place then great, should always be looking to improve. But I'd still play ruffels until his form warrants dropping, not just shove him out. We did the same last season, ruffs had been playing well and as soon as lunny or lego can't remember which came back they were straight in the squad and we looked poor for a few games while they got uk to speed That was my point pal, it's an unfair comparison comparing players that are less likely to play for their country like Maguire and Payne (easier to play for Scotland than england) and as you've shown above with Johno and O'Dowda, I think if you're making those sort of comparisons it has to be a fair one with the likeliness of playing for your country.
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Post by headingtonutd on Aug 8, 2017 7:31:09 GMT
I'm not sure how or why we ended up in this squabble or why for that matter people are as ambivalent about Ruffles as they seem to be. To me he does exactly what needs to be done with very little fuss in whatever situation he is put in. His ball retention is good, he works hard, has a good engine and can score goals and track back and tackle. More impressively he is still improving and looks at home even after we stepped up a league, something Lundstrum struggled with early on last season. I have nothing against our interest in Ivo, we have a fantastic recruitment department and I trust their work but it just seems a little off to me that some are already edging aside a fantastic emerging local talent for a player that we know almost nothing about and who we haven't even completed a deal for yet!
Let him come, let him prove himself and let him win his place, i'd be happy with that. Until then, i'm more than happy with one of our own and the work he is doing.
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Post by holdsteady on Aug 8, 2017 7:37:42 GMT
I think Ruffels still gets judged on what he did 4 years ago when he was a kid in a poor team being played out of position, people need to forget that and look at how well he has played over the 18 months when he has been given the chance, and over the last 15 odd games he has played when it has all come together for him and he has shined.
The 4,2,3,1 with him as one of the 2 is easily his best position, he has the athleticism and intelligence to play there. He has had offers to go and play at other clubs in this division who are around are position from last year, and was rated by Wilder and Appleton and was picked for Clotets first game, so it's not like he isn't rated by people with actual decent football knowledge.
He deserves a fair chance, not because he is local but because he has earned it and has talent, if the new lad comes in and takes his place because he is shit hot fair enough, but not just because he has two caps for Sweden.
One more thing about Ruffels, we would never get a similar standard player on what we pay him, financially he is the best value player in the squad.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Aug 8, 2017 7:38:50 GMT
If we had just signed Ruffels in the summer (rather than having had him for some years) people would be saying what a good signing he is. A good age, versatile, hard working, decent passer, good tackler, starting to score goals, reliable and still improving.
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Post by pottersrightboot on Aug 8, 2017 7:45:31 GMT
Why are we so sure Ruffels will be the player dropped anyway?
The amount of negativity being displayed because we might be signing a foreign international, is as usual, jaw dropping.
Enjoy the ride.
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Post by headingtonutd on Aug 8, 2017 7:46:30 GMT
I know it's hard, but don't be a dick all your life. If you can't get into a proper debate without insults, maybe you should do your normal disappearing trick for a few weeks. By default, yes a full international is better than a non international. By your logic, Tom Cleverley, Leon Osman Gerrard are all worse than Ruffles? They all played the last time we played Sweden and lost 4-2. I know you are obsessed by Ruffles, but if we get a player who the boss thinks is better, then Ruffles will be dropped. If he doesn't he will play. The same rule applies in most walks of like. In business, to be successful, you get better staff in as you grow. I make it a rule not to step into fights that have nothing to do with me, especially if the combatants are armed with handbags, but this opening line is a little contradictory isn't it?
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Post by duffy13 on Aug 8, 2017 8:01:17 GMT
If we had just signed Ruffels in the summer (rather than having had him for some years) people would be saying what a good signing he is. A good age, versatile, hard working, decent passer, good tackler, starting to score goals, reliable and still improving. If he'd signed in the summer he'd have had only been able to start to score goals as it would've been his debut!
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Post by Junior on Aug 8, 2017 8:03:25 GMT
Maybe it could mean a player is leaving from the midfield...
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Aug 8, 2017 8:07:50 GMT
If we had just signed Ruffels in the summer (rather than having had him for some years) people would be saying what a good signing he is. A good age, versatile, hard working, decent passer, good tackler, starting to score goals, reliable and still improving. If he'd signed in the summer he'd have had only been able to start to score goals as it would've been his debut! Ermm, I was presuming that he would have been playing for someone else. Other teams score goals too, you know!
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Post by Belgian Yellow on Aug 8, 2017 8:11:02 GMT
We had exactly the same discussion about Danny Rose. Nobody now says he should have had more of a run in the team.
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Post by juanpabloraponi on Aug 8, 2017 8:12:07 GMT
Maybe we're just strengthening the squad. Players dip in and out of form, we play in a lot of competitions and injuries happen - particularly to combative midfield players.
God forbid we actually build a squad of quality players and we end up in a position where there is competition for places and we have like for like replacements!
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Post by scotters on Aug 8, 2017 8:16:52 GMT
We had exactly the same discussion about Danny Rose. Nobody now says he should have had more of a run in the team. Seems to be playing regularly at Portsmouth these days - wonder if he'll be there on Saturday? Can't say I expected to see him at the Kassam again.
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Post by headingtonutd on Aug 8, 2017 8:22:10 GMT
We had exactly the same discussion about Danny Rose. Nobody now says he should have had more of a run in the team. Yes and no I would say. He was a good player in the team he arrived in but the squad improved so quickly that his leaving was not questioned for long. Our squad now is much more impressive and is being readied for a promotion tilt from L1. Ruffles (to my mind) has proved he can more than cut it at this level and in this squad and we are not going to improve the way we did when Danny Rose was being let go. If we did, we'd be in the Prem pretty soon !
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Post by foley on Aug 8, 2017 8:31:20 GMT
Maybe it could mean a player is leaving from the midfield... Maybe or maybe Sercombe and Lundstrom have been replaced by Xemi and any new signing? My assumption is that Rothwell is not to be considered as a central midfield player as part of 2. With regard to Ruffels and Ledson I thought that they did pretty well on Saturday and seem to be taking on more responsibility without Lundstrom. It would be a shame if one lost their place for a new signing, but from a managers perspective I guess he will always look to strengthen.
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Post by bigfella72 on Aug 8, 2017 8:35:10 GMT
Has anybody looked at these huge international caps he's got? No, thought not! Played twice in 2013 (a while ago) in a friendly type Cup against North Korea (subbed off) and Finland! Obviously had potential but hasn't reached it yet or has andcthis is why he's never played for his country again! As bazzer says, needs to earn his place along with any other player we sign.
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Post by Junior on Aug 8, 2017 8:36:42 GMT
With respect Bigfella. If he was regular for Sweden, he wouldn't have signed for oxford in l1!
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 8, 2017 9:00:50 GMT
We had exactly the same discussion about Danny Rose. Nobody now says he should have had more of a run in the team. That's because Danny rose had reached his level, ruffels is still improving, and also doing it a quite a rate. I'll probably get shot down for this, but I'd have him in front of lunny at the moment if he was still here, with Danny rose cleaning their boots.
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 8, 2017 9:01:38 GMT
With respect Bigfella. If he was regular for Sweden, he wouldn't have signed for oxford in l1! I think some people are looking at it like that though.
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Post by salaghaf on Aug 8, 2017 9:07:42 GMT
Maybe it could mean a player is leaving from the midfield... Hopefully not Hall. Felt sorry for him Saturday. Quality player, need to retain and play. All this debate about Ruffles, when the player who appears to have been actually sidelined by new faces is Hall. On his day, one of the best players in the squad.
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Post by oufcyellows on Aug 8, 2017 9:10:41 GMT
Maybe it could mean a player is leaving from the midfield... Hopefully not Hall. Felt sorry for him Saturday. Quality player, need to retain and play. All this debate about Ruffles, when the player who appears to have been actually sidelined by new faces is Hall. On his day, one of the best players in the squad. Maybe not fully fit. Henry and Payne I'd start in those positions over hall, and also Johno at left wing. But to start rothwell ahead of him is a strange one
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Post by finlandia on Aug 8, 2017 9:25:58 GMT
I know it's hard, but don't be a dick all your life. If you can't get into a proper debate without insults, maybe you should do your normal disappearing trick for a few weeks. By default, yes a full international is better than a non international. By your logic, Tom Cleverley, Leon Osman Gerrard are all worse than Ruffles? They all played the last time we played Sweden and lost 4-2. I know you are obsessed by Ruffles, but if we get a player who the boss thinks is better, then Ruffles will be dropped. If he doesn't he will play. The same rule applies in most walks of like. In business, to be successful, you get better staff in as you grow. I make it a rule not to step into fights that have nothing to do with me, especially if the combatants are armed with handbags, but this opening line is a little contradictory isn't it? Maybe, but CM has spent the last 12 months dishing out insults. First time I've replied in kind - childish, but never mind!!
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