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Post by unification on Dec 7, 2016 12:01:44 GMT
Just imagine going to Wembley and watching Oxford United take on Wolves or Sunderland U23s in the final. Does that really have any appeal to anyone on here? Do we really want to be regarded on an equal standing as a development side from a club that just so happens to be higher up the leagues than us? Our previous visits to Wembley have seen us play QPR, York City and Barnsley – do we really want to have a Wembley final with us sharing the pitch with Reading U23s as our opponent? It just goes to show how much the Football League has bent over to allow the big clubs in – and even then they’ve monstrously failed since Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham haven’t bothered to enter. With every other cup competition, you have parity with your opponent. You can play more-or-less whatever XI you like, throw the youth into things, ensure every player is under 23, stick your 47 year old goalkeeping coach up front, but you’re still simply one club entity playing against another. With this, clubs in Leagues 1 and 2 are made to feel smaller than they are, doing a favour for developing future English talent (another failure of this disastrous experiment). I live under 4 miles from Wembley Stadium and I wouldn’t go if Oxford made it, regardless whether we played an academy side or a proper opponent. The JPT wasn’t perfect and had limited appeal, but to make this Frankenstein competition from it has destroyed the small lure there was to it.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Dec 7, 2016 12:15:45 GMT
Whilst entirely understanding everyone's irritations about the quirks introduced this year, I just don't feel the same way. Sorry Charlie - I do not agree that introducing Prem/Championship 'B' teams into a competition is a 'quirk'. Whether DE saw it as a Trojan Horse in order to get them into the league structure or not, that was surely the intention. The fact that it has fallen completely flat (not only with supporters of lower league clubs but also with the Prem/Championship clubs themselves) is gratifying and has pretty much guaranteed that this competition will either revert to a L1/L2 only affair next year or will be put out of its agony. (Incidentally, I'd like it to continue but perhaps with the top conference teams included). I don't think the original decision of some people to boycott was 'irritation'. In my case it was 'worry'! Worry that the league pyramid structure was about to be ruined to kowtow to the Prem clubs - nothing to do with improving the English national team or any of that guff. Now that threat - and the 'whole game structure' or whatever it is called - seems to have been kicked into the long grass I have less of a problem with the competition, although going to watch us play a Prem B team that includes a mixture of youngsters, foreign internationals and blokes over 30 still does not appeal. Would I go to a Wembley final? I would certainly be tempted, but that would purely because I support the team not because I think the competition itself had much value at all.
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Post by wallop on Dec 7, 2016 12:41:43 GMT
It's interesting that the club tell us this is a valid and important competition and that we should go to support the team but they can't be bothered to send the official website photographer to the match - double standards?
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Post by grenobleroad on Dec 7, 2016 13:01:29 GMT
At first no one cared to recognize this competition, now there's talk of Wembley and stuff... Could that be because the two main reasons for the boycott were, the whole game solution and bteams entering the league. Both have now been ruled out I get what you're saying but I don't take what the FA say at face value and think they are full of shit. I won't attend any games in the competition this season at all. I fear that any hike in the attendances will give them the opportunity to be able to change their mind publicly. Whoever wins the trophy this year will have won tainted silverware in my opinion, I hope it's not us.
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Post by oufcyellows on Dec 7, 2016 13:18:54 GMT
Could that be because the two main reasons for the boycott were, the whole game solution and bteams entering the league. Both have now been ruled out I get what you're saying but I don't take what the FA say at face value and think they are full of shit. I won't attend any games in the competition this season at all. I fear that any hike in the attendances will give them the opportunity to be able to change their mind publicly. Whoever wins the trophy this year will have won tainted silverware in my opinion, I hope it's not us. I'm impressed with your will power, like I said before I won't buckle if it wolves under 23's in the final, but a nice day out at Wembley against say Wycombe or Luton, I'm not sure I could resist, I'd probably even attend it if it was oxford city making the final. Couldn't care less if we lost, but a cracking day out
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Post by Gary Baldi on Dec 7, 2016 13:20:35 GMT
I got cajoled to go last year by friends and families (you'll miss out on a day at Wembley, etc), but I can't see it happening if we get there this year. That excuse has gone
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Post by harryhalitosis on Dec 7, 2016 14:13:18 GMT
I don't post on here much and usually get ridiculed when I do. But hey, that's what having an opinion is all about. I know I'm in a minority here, not just within the OUFC fanbase but wider, but I actually agree with the trial (and that's all it is...a trial) allowing Under 23 sides to enter this competition this season. I would also potentially support any future idea to allow these U23 or even U21 teams to play in the league pyramid.
Yes, the Premier League teams have got too big and wealthy and too eager to sign a foreign superstar rather than blood their own youngsters - I get all that. I'd happily support and PL rule changes forcing teams to play at least 3 home-born players or British youth team players in each game.
But current rules won't allow this and the bigger picture and one which the FA are charged with focusing on has to be the future of the English national game and the national side. The way things are going, the England manager won't have many English players regularly playing first-team PL games by the turn of the decade and young players will continue to drift down the leagues and out of the game. There needs to be a proper format for young sides to play regular matches and test themselves against so-called bigger & better players, whether that's a well-organised reserve league or in a competition like the Checkatrade.
I know the argument that the Chelsea U23 side we played wasn't 100% full of young British talent and that clubs like them will still spend money on overseas youngsters and send too many of their youth teams out on loan. I don't particularly like the format of the Checkatrade this season but the league are clearly trialing a few things. It has been almost universally disliked so I doubt if they will continue with this next season. But somewhere along the line something has to be done to improve the future of the English game and the constantly failing national team.
I suspect that regionalising the pyramid below League One will happen within 5 years and that the league may take this opportunity to allow the so-called bigger clubs to enter a reserve/U23 side into the lower regional divisions.
I don't get to many OUFC games because of my own footballing commitments but would certainly be at Wembley (again) this season if they progress that far. And if that's against Wolves U23s or similar then that's fine and I feel very confident that many on here (and fans at other clubs moaning about the competition) would also be at Wembley given the chance.
HH
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Post by sihath on Dec 7, 2016 14:41:55 GMT
I don't post on here much and usually get ridiculed when I do. But hey, that's what having an opinion is all about. I know I'm in a minority here, not just within the OUFC fanbase but wider, but I actually agree with the trial (and that's all it is...a trial) allowing Under 23 sides to enter this competition this season. I would also potentially support any future idea to allow these U23 or even U21 teams to play in the league pyramid. Yes, the Premier League teams have got too big and wealthy and too eager to sign a foreign superstar rather than blood their own youngsters - I get all that. I'd happily support and PL rule changes forcing teams to play at least 3 home-born players or British youth team players in each game. But current rules won't allow this and the bigger picture and one which the FA are charged with focusing on has to be the future of the English national game and the national side. The way things are going, the England manager won't have many English players regularly playing first-team PL games by the turn of the decade and young players will continue to drift down the leagues and out of the game. There needs to be a proper format for young sides to play regular matches and test themselves against so-called bigger & better players, whether that's a well-organised reserve league or in a competition like the Checkatrade. I know the argument that the Chelsea U23 side we played wasn't 100% full of young British talent and that clubs like them will still spend money on overseas youngsters and send too many of their youth teams out on loan. I don't particularly like the format of the Checkatrade this season but the league are clearly trialing a few things. It has been almost universally disliked so I doubt if they will continue with this next season. But somewhere along the line something has to be done to improve the future of the English game and the constantly failing national team. I suspect that regionalising the pyramid below League One will happen within 5 years and that the league may take this opportunity to allow the so-called bigger clubs to enter a reserve/U23 side into the lower regional divisions. I don't get to many OUFC games because of my own footballing commitments but would certainly be at Wembley (again) this season if they progress that far. And if that's against Wolves U23s or similar then that's fine and I feel very confident that many on here (and fans at other clubs moaning about the competition) would also be at Wembley given the chance. HH Not going to ridicule you for your opinion. But I might disagree with you, as I don't think that the trial this season has been thought through. The revamped competition doesn't seem to know what it wants to be or what it wants to do. Is it to help young English talent and therefore the national side? If it is then why fine clubs for playing young English players? Is it for the 'bigger' teams to give their young players competitive football? If it is then why allow old players from those teams to play? Why don't the PL/Champ teams relaunch a reserve league. Play your stockpiled young players in it, play your established players coming back from injury in it. But don't take over 'our' competition and have the rules changed to suit your own needs.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Dec 7, 2016 15:07:53 GMT
I would also potentially support any future idea to allow these U23 or even U21 teams to play in the league pyramid. Blimey. So how do you see this working? Are these B teams allowed promotion? In which case, with the vast resources (and player count) of their parent clubs they could soon be in the Championship. The top two leagues would then be sewn up by these mega-rich clubs - the TV money for the A teams used to hoover up the resources of the Championship. There would be even more incentive for the larger clubs to sign even more young players and to loan out fewer as they are using them themselves. If they are not allowed to be promoted (lets say beyond L1) it means that either they sit at the top of L1 and effectively promotion to the Championship finishes, or the top three non-B teams get promoted. So the team that comes 5th, 6th or 7th might go up to the Championship. Absolutely barmy either way. And what of teams lower down the pyramid? Eventually every Prem and larger Championship club would want their B teams involved. That is at least another divisions worth. Well funded, with resources that would dwarf any small club. How would a Fleetwood, a Burton, an AFC Wimbledon, Accrington Stanley, Macclesfield etc just trying to start or restart their league adventure get on? And why would any of these teams just be allowed to parachute themselves into the league over a long established 'smaller' club? Would they then be allowed to enter the FA Cup and the League cup? I suspect that the TV companies would love that - and even less TV money would go to smaller clubs. None of it is right, none of it is fair. And if you actually think that any of this is about, or would help, the national team then you have I'm afraid swallowed the bait; hook, line and sinker. So while I won't ridicule you, I will say that I think your view is complacent, short sighted and dangerous for the future of the football pyramid and the smaller clubs within it. And one of those clubs is the one you support.
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Post by holdsteady on Dec 7, 2016 15:15:53 GMT
I don't post on here much and usually get ridiculed when I do. But hey, that's what having an opinion is all about. I know I'm in a minority here, not just within the OUFC fanbase but wider, but I actually agree with the trial (and that's all it is...a trial) allowing Under 23 sides to enter this competition this season. I would also potentially support any future idea to allow these U23 or even U21 teams to play in the league pyramid. Yes, the Premier League teams have got too big and wealthy and too eager to sign a foreign superstar rather than blood their own youngsters - I get all that. I'd happily support and PL rule changes forcing teams to play at least 3 home-born players or British youth team players in each game. But current rules won't allow this and the bigger picture and one which the FA are charged with focusing on has to be the future of the English national game and the national side. The way things are going, the England manager won't have many English players regularly playing first-team PL games by the turn of the decade and young players will continue to drift down the leagues and out of the game. There needs to be a proper format for young sides to play regular matches and test themselves against so-called bigger & better players, whether that's a well-organised reserve league or in a competition like the Checkatrade. I know the argument that the Chelsea U23 side we played wasn't 100% full of young British talent and that clubs like them will still spend money on overseas youngsters and send too many of their youth teams out on loan. I don't particularly like the format of the Checkatrade this season but the league are clearly trialing a few things. It has been almost universally disliked so I doubt if they will continue with this next season. But somewhere along the line something has to be done to improve the future of the English game and the constantly failing national team. I suspect that regionalising the pyramid below League One will happen within 5 years and that the league may take this opportunity to allow the so-called bigger clubs to enter a reserve/U23 side into the lower regional divisions. I don't get to many OUFC games because of my own footballing commitments but would certainly be at Wembley (again) this season if they progress that far. And if that's against Wolves U23s or similar then that's fine and I feel very confident that many on here (and fans at other clubs moaning about the competition) would also be at Wembley given the chance. HH Why should the something done about the failing national team come at the cost of the lower end of the football league? With one notable exception we haven't exactly excelled at international football since after the second world war, on the other hand we have the best club football pyramid in the world. As their is no guarantee (it's actually very unlikely) that the FA changes will have any effect on improving the fortunes of England, why risk the best things about English football for a very outside chance of a bit of success one summer? I won't be going to Wembley if we make it, what's the point if you couldn't care less about the competition?
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Post by grenobleroad on Dec 7, 2016 15:26:05 GMT
I get what you're saying but I don't take what the FA say at face value and think they are full of shit. I won't attend any games in the competition this season at all. I fear that any hike in the attendances will give them the opportunity to be able to change their mind publicly. Whoever wins the trophy this year will have won tainted silverware in my opinion, I hope it's not us. I'm impressed with your will power, like I said before I won't buckle if it wolves under 23's in the final, but a nice day out at Wembley against say Wycombe or Luton, I'm not sure I could resist, I'd probably even attend it if it was oxford city making the final. Couldn't care less if we lost, but a cracking day out It's was fun last year but I would take some away days we've had over the last few years over that day. Fa or league cup? That would be different. I've been to Wembley a few times now and have always been slightly disappointed with the day out.
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Post by huntezoufc on Dec 7, 2016 17:03:33 GMT
There are some really important principles involved in this debate. I too, share the view, that this could be viewed in the context of 'thin end of the wedge' It is also patently wrong to be competing against Premiership academies, in an FA organised tournament, which has been designed for Division 1 & 2 Clubs to try & enjoy some cup success, culminating in a trip to Wembley. After all, realistically how far are we going to progress in the major 2 cup competitions ? Last year v Swansea was great, but how often has that happened in the last 20 years or so ? However, surely we should be considering the financial benefits of progression in this tournament (not really gate receipts) but sponsor money. I haven't got the figures to hand, but I know it was significant last season. Surely, this would be positive if it enabled us to sign some players, or would it be viewed as 'blood money'?
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Post by Paul Cannell on Dec 7, 2016 18:28:35 GMT
That it's failed............is gratifying and has pretty much guaranteed that this competition will either revert to a L1/L2 only affair next year or will be put out of its agony. (Incidentally, I'd like it to continue but perhaps with the top conference teams included). .............. Would I go to a Wembley final? I would certainly be tempted, but that would purely because I support the team not because I think the competition itself had much value at all. Filleted a good post. A competition with 64 clubs from leagues 3, 4 and 5 would seem to make sense to me, and be something worth playing up to 6 times for. As for going to Wembley this year; against an u-23 team - no way, against another real side, maybe.
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Post by Bue Guado on Dec 7, 2016 18:41:12 GMT
I will go if it is against another League 1/2 team.
I will not go if it against a Champ/Prem U21/U23/B/whatever you want to call it.
Simple.
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Post by leysboy on Dec 7, 2016 19:17:33 GMT
Whoever we draw in the next round I'm going!
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Post by cecantena on Dec 7, 2016 19:31:14 GMT
Whoever we draw in the next round I'm going! You will find out in the morning - draw on Sky Sports News at 11.30am.
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Post by foley on Dec 7, 2016 20:17:59 GMT
I don't get to many OUFC games because of my own footballing commitments but would certainly be at Wembley (again) this season if they progress that far. And if that's against Wolves U23s or similar then that's fine and I feel very confident that many on here (and fans at other clubs moaning about the competition) would also be at Wembley given the chance. HH Why should the something done about the failing national team come at the cost of the lower end of the football league? With one notable exception we haven't exactly excelled at international football since after the second world war, on the other hand we have the best club football pyramid in the world. As their is no guarantee (it's actually very unlikely) that the FA changes will have any effect on improving the fortunes of England, why risk the best things about English football for a very outside chance of a bit of success one summer? I won't be going to Wembley if we make it, what's the point if you couldn't care less about the competition?Coz you do care less about your team?
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Post by holdsteady on Dec 7, 2016 20:28:33 GMT
Why should the something done about the failing national team come at the cost of the lower end of the football league? With one notable exception we haven't exactly excelled at international football since after the second world war, on the other hand we have the best club football pyramid in the world. As their is no guarantee (it's actually very unlikely) that the FA changes will have any effect on improving the fortunes of England, why risk the best things about English football for a very outside chance of a bit of success one summer? I won't be going to Wembley if we make it, what's the point if you couldn't care less about the competition?Coz you do care less about your team? But Oxford United don't exist in a vacuum do they, we need proper, valid competitions against proper and valid teams to exist and prosper. The competition has been stripped of all value by the inclusion of b teams.
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Post by bullytheox86 on Dec 7, 2016 22:26:50 GMT
At first no one cared to recognize this competition, now there's talk of Wembley and stuff... Could that be because the two main reasons for the boycott were, the whole game solution and bteams entering the league. Both have now been ruled out Do you really believe that they have truly been ruled out. Call me a cynical old sod, but I don't believe it for a minute. MONEY rules
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Post by bicesterox on Dec 7, 2016 23:37:50 GMT
Could that be because the two main reasons for the boycott were, the whole game solution and bteams entering the league. Both have now been ruled out Do you really believe that they have truly been ruled out. Call me a cynical old sod, but I don't believe it for a minute. MONEY rules You are a cynical old sod But that makes 2 of us.... its all gone downhill since The Football League did its stupid rebrand to the EFL
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Post by barbadosyellow on Dec 8, 2016 2:25:44 GMT
Happy to see Bradford, Wycombe and Coventry go through. They would all be decent Wembley opponents if we can repeat last year.
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Post by saddletramp on Dec 8, 2016 5:16:36 GMT
Could that be because the two main reasons for the boycott were, the whole game solution and bteams entering the league. Both have now been ruled out I get what you're saying but I don't take what the FA say at face value and think they are full of shit. I won't attend any games in the competition this season at all. I fear that any hike in the attendances will give them the opportunity to be able to change their mind publicly. Whoever wins the trophy this year will have won tainted silverware in my opinion, I hope it's not us. "Whoever wins the trophy this year will have won a tainted silverware,i hope its not us" Do you actually support OUFC ? Oxford United v Luton Town at Wembley and you hope we lose !!!!!!!! I have never cheered on any team against Oxford and never will regardless of the competition.
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Post by saddletramp on Dec 8, 2016 5:19:36 GMT
Coz you do care less about your team? But Oxford United don't exist in a vacuum do they, we need proper, valid competitions against proper and valid teams to exist and prosper. The competition has been stripped of all value by the inclusion of b teams. For 30 years the competition never had any "value" the paint pot trophy,the windscreen trophy,the Simod cup ? Until we actually got to Wembley.
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Post by grenobleroad on Dec 8, 2016 6:26:58 GMT
I get what you're saying but I don't take what the FA say at face value and think they are full of shit. I won't attend any games in the competition this season at all. I fear that any hike in the attendances will give them the opportunity to be able to change their mind publicly. Whoever wins the trophy this year will have won tainted silverware in my opinion, I hope it's not us. "Whoever wins the trophy this year will have won a tainted silverware,i hope its not us" Do you actually support OUFC ? Oxford United v Luton Town at Wembley and you hope we lose !!!!!!!! I have never cheered on any team against Oxford and never will regardless of the competition. Erm yes I do support oxford. Why would I ever support a team against us? I simply don't recognise the competition and don't acknowledge it. I'll see the result on here or on twitter but don't follow the game like I would a normal game I wasn't attending. The Luton analogy doesn't work either, if I was going to break it would of been the Swindon game and I never.
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Post by londonroader on Dec 8, 2016 7:36:43 GMT
Not long to wait until the next round draw, then another episode of peeps views on the rights and wrongs of this competition.
Good thread this...
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Post by Common Villager on Dec 8, 2016 8:36:05 GMT
Just because the EFL say this wasn't a trial for introducing B teams into the football pyramid, it does certainly not mean it's true. And just because they say it was a one season thing, again, doesn't mean it's true.
I fear that an increase in supporter attendance at EFL trophy matches will result in them pointing to it as a success and suggesting people have come round to the idea of B teams playing against our clubs. That's why I won't attend any game in this competition.
As others have said, our previous trips to Wembley have been to play matches that we all want to win. Admittedly last year was perhaps more of a 'day out' than the others, but I still wanted to see us lift the trophy ar the end of it.
For me, this trophy is now tainted, and I couldn't care less if we win it or not. I couldn't care less if we got whacked 10-0 in the next round. It's the first time I've not been to a single game in the competition, and that will remain the case - Wembley or not.
It's not just about the B Teams (although it mainly is). The reformatting has been a joke. Our penalty shootout against Chelsea B Team was to decide on who won an extra point that would ultimately have no effect on the 'league' standings or which team qualified. Utter joke.
Going back to the B Team thing, though. As others have said, why should lower league teams be made to suffer and feel devalued because of the failures of Premier League clubs? Why don't they address rules that allow bigger clubs to poach and hoard talented young players first? And does anyone truly believe that the clubs with B Teams would actually use it as a way to hone young British talent?
The way that the FA and Football league bow down to the Premier League is an embarrassment, and this joke of a competition is now just an extension of that.
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Post by makv on Dec 8, 2016 8:44:04 GMT
I will go if it is against another League 1/2 team. I will not go if it against a Champ/Prem U21/U23/B/whatever you want to call it. Simple. Simple indeed. Ditto. Although the thought of our team having to play a Wembley final in front of a much-reduced following does annoy me. They would have done enough to deserve better than that. I wonder how DE would reconcile that, having said that his reason for supporting the format was the atmosphere at Wembley last year?
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Post by makv on Dec 8, 2016 11:00:14 GMT
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Post by dabigfella on Dec 8, 2016 11:02:22 GMT
I will go if it is against another League 1/2 team. I will not go if it against a Champ/Prem U21/U23/B/whatever you want to call it. Simple. Simple indeed. Ditto. Although the thought of our team having to play a Wembley final in front of a much-reduced following does annoy me. They would have done enough to deserve better than that. I wonder how DE would reconcile that, having said that his reason for supporting the format was the atmosphere at Wembley last year? Ditto that ditto!!!
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