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Post by old on Oct 11, 2016 9:42:47 GMT
FIROZ Kassam has revealed talks are under way to sell the Kassam Stadium and make it a community-owned facility. The above is the first sentence in Saturdays OM when the story broke. It certainly gives the impression that FK broke the story. He said oxvox determined "when" it was released not who by. Good point, however that has only just be clarified. The fact that FK said it could be years away, would suggest that it's not imminent and I have to support DE and the club in their efforts to ensure the ground is being maintained as per the contract. If this upsets Kassam, that's his problem as landlord he has legal obligations to fulfil the terms of the lease and if and I say if, DE has held back payment due to non fulfilment of agreements I would support him in doing so.
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Post by mcf86 on Oct 11, 2016 9:42:59 GMT
I don't see that this tit for tat or nit picking by ka**am as a very Sensible and business-like approach, more like same old ka**am taking the p1ss. Eh? You should stand for OxVox chair when Jem's had enough. You have all the necessary attributes. Your approach to advancing the club is to lambast the only person who holds any power over that advancement. Whatever you think of him, from his own perspective Kassam is behaving sensibly and in a business-like manner. My 'lambasting' of kassam is my personal opinion, and I won't put what I really think of him as there are obviously some on this forum of a delicate nature. ''from his own perspective Kassam is behaving sensibly and in a business-like manner'' From his own perspective (And World) I'd imagine he sees himself as a 'gift' to oufc, a custodian and charitable individual whose thoughtfulness and kindness knows no bounds. Others might disagree.
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 11, 2016 9:54:20 GMT
He said oxvox determined "when" it was released not who by. Good point, however that has only just be clarified. The fact that FK said it could be years away, would suggest that it's not imminent and I have to support DE and the club in their efforts to ensure the ground is being maintained as per the contract. If this upsets Kassam, that's his problem as landlord he has legal obligations to fulfil the terms of the lease and if and I say if, DE has held back payment due to non fulfilment of agreements I would support him in doing so. Totally, but at the min that's between club and fk. All I'm saying is with oxvox (a supporters trust) being a lot further down the line, I think we the supports shouldnt do anything that jeopardises that, be the protests or public criticising
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Post by shosho on Oct 11, 2016 10:07:38 GMT
Love the DE is putting time pressure on the stadium sale, however it happens. Over the weekend he stated it would be great to have everything tied up by the end of the season. This morning, DE states with both parties willing to make something happen 10-12 weeks.
This sets us up nicely for a few months time when there has been little *visible* movement for DE to hold Kassam to account...once more calling him out like the fourth stand.
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Post by saddletramp on Oct 11, 2016 10:53:47 GMT
Just to clarify the last point, We (oxvox) determined when the statements went out, it was not FK. The timing had nothing to do with Sunday's game. Cheers Jem That's interesting. Why choose that particular date? Oxvox would have been aware of possible impending demonstrations at that game and the article in the OM gave the impression as did DE that it was Kassam breaking the news and not any other person or persons. Maybe Oxvox have some compassion. I know Jem personally and know he is a big family man. With the sadness surrounding the death of Lewis,perhaps they decided that any protests were better left to another day ? No idea if that was the reason,just a thought.
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Post by upthecowboys on Oct 11, 2016 11:05:22 GMT
Now things are much more in the open do you think it would be possible for the club to specify 'what the few disputed items are' and the value of these in terms of payments they've held back from paying.
Agree with previous comments that we can't just accept that it is OK for the club to be handing over full payments (just because a ground purchase is a possibility) if they think Firoka are not maintaining ground as per terms of the contract etc.
I think DE has been quite shrewd in some of his recent comments. For example his use of 'sincere' in a quote about Kassam's intentions and his most recent comment re timescales.
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Post by Mark on Oct 11, 2016 11:15:25 GMT
I was also wondering what might be in dispute. Off the top of my head:- - relaying the pitch after London Welsh, and then didn't it get reseeded this Summer again. Who pays for this? - scoreboard replacement. I think it was said the previous scoreboard was so old there was no way of repairing it. So who paid for taking away the old one / buying (or leasing) the new one? - coffees. Wasn't the cost of coffees in the boxes / lounges £24K per year, so this got dropped. also the match day restaurant. - sharing stadium drink revenues. I thought once we were told a deal had been done to share them, but later did this get dropped? - pitchside advertising. Noticable how many are blank this season with just the manufacturer's name. Is it correct that these are between sponsors and stadco, rather than sponsors and the club? - the match day ST scanners / enhancements to online booking? Who paid for this?
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Post by essexyellows on Oct 11, 2016 11:20:51 GMT
Kassam is a shrewd cookie, be it in terms of business or playing politics. Its classic negotiation territory, both start at the extremes of leverage using whatever tools they think they have. Eventually conccesions are made to a point of agreement. FK played a blinder with the community/Oxvox, not an individual publicity. That rile`s DE who then trys to turn it around.....ad infinitum.
If they could all cut the carp and just get on with it it would be done & dusted in no time....
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Post by mickyd on Oct 11, 2016 11:46:36 GMT
Just a thought and there will be those out there smart enough to give me the reasons why not but here's a suggestion/thought:
As our attendances rise, (the need has already been proven a few times with the call for a 4th temporary stand) is there a time when the stadium becomes "not fit for purpose"? Yes we could restrict the attendance but you wouldn't want a few thousand milling around outside would you. So, if unfit for purpose would we, hypothetically take up an offer from, say MK Dons, to ground share with them until the stadium was fit or an alternative option was found? Could we then dispute having to pay rent on a stadium not fit for purpose, therefore leaving someone holding a white elephant whilst trudging slowly to the negotiation table?
Just a thought-short term pain, long term ...game
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Post by steveo263 on Oct 11, 2016 11:48:38 GMT
According to Oxvox it's about the service charge we pay Kassam.
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Post by eighteen93 on Oct 11, 2016 12:00:04 GMT
This is becoming interesting. So Eales admits OUFC owe Kassam money, but nothing significant, yet Kassam seems exercised enough by what's owed to hold our fourth stand ambitions back. Eales has invited Kassam to contact him, but has not offered to take the first step himself. Meanwhile, Kassam still seems willing to talk to OxVox about community ownership of the club. Must admit, the latter does seem less genuine this morning, but I still think it's imperative OxVox continue to negotiate with Kassam on the subject. To label Kassam a snake might help us let off steam but won't take OUFC forward at this stage. To compare Ka$$am to a snake is being unfair to snakes - on reflection.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Oct 11, 2016 12:19:03 GMT
I would suspect DE is 3 steps ahead as well. He's not naive Nick Merry with an unfunded dream and has worked in a hyper competitive and political environment. Evidently Kassam does not like a two way relationship in what I would think it should be and perhaps the club have got the reaction they desired. We pay a service charge, so it's not unreasonable to request things are done. It's a blind spot that StadCo appears to have and is unwilling to deal with - they only want their money.
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Post by foley on Oct 11, 2016 13:50:13 GMT
There sure seems to be a lot of games going on (negotiation stances being taken).
Fk saying years and DE saying 10-12 weeks is one of the largest differences that we can see to date.
I assume that the announcement came out at the weekend as the negative reaction to FK in respect of the 4th stand was starting to grow and if negotiations are at a critical point then Oxvox do not want any distractions (and people pis**** off FK who can always change his mind).
Let's hope that there will be a significant announcement or clarification soon with more detail as this beign dragged out for years really would not do anybody any favours ...
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Post by old on Oct 11, 2016 14:09:23 GMT
I see the Oxford Mail have removed and suspended the comments section for this article in today's paper. Heaven forbid they allow free speech on this occasion.
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 11, 2016 14:25:05 GMT
I see the Oxford Mail have removed and suspended the comments section for this article in today's paper. Heaven forbid they allow free speech on this occasion. If de questioning payments has led to us not getting a stand, then blocking fans abuse is probably not a bad idea if we seriously want oxvox to succeed
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Post by old on Oct 11, 2016 14:36:17 GMT
I see the Oxford Mail have removed and suspended the comments section for this article in today's paper. Heaven forbid they allow free speech on this occasion. If de questioning payments has led to us not getting a stand, then blocking fans abuse is probably not a bad idea if we seriously want oxvox to succeed They could have removed any abusive comments and allowed the genuine questions that supporters are raising as this forum has allowed. It does not look favourably on the Oxford Mail when they act in such a way and censor comments that are made at their invitation.
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 11, 2016 14:59:08 GMT
True, but have u ever read comments on there, some seriously weird people just like on the Facebook page
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Post by victor1986 on Oct 11, 2016 15:25:15 GMT
I was also wondering what might be in dispute. Off the top of my head:- - relaying the pitch after London Welsh, and then didn't it get reseeded this Summer again. Who pays for this? - scoreboard replacement. I think it was said the previous scoreboard was so old there was no way of repairing it. So who paid for taking away the old one / buying (or leasing) the new one? - coffees. Wasn't the cost of coffees in the boxes / lounges £24K per year, so this got dropped. also the match day restaurant. - sharing stadium drink revenues. I thought once we were told a deal had been done to share them, but later did this get dropped? - pitchside advertising. Noticable how many are blank this season with just the manufacturer's name. Is it correct that these are between sponsors and stadco, rather than sponsors and the club? - the match day ST scanners / enhancements to online booking? Who paid for this? That's a pretty good summary slappy. From my limited "inside" info there is a long list of things FK is not maintaining/repairing. On the other hand our shutting up the restaurant & holding MOM in the bar aftermatch is (apparently) another touchy matter. If you rent a 4 Bedroomed House & board up one of the bedrooms you can't just say .."we don't use it therefore we pay less rent" - you pay whatever was spelt out in the rental Agreement. As a lounger the Tea/Coffee situation is now a complete fiasco with up to 70 people tussling for a paper cup at half time & at every match supplies run out! If the cost per annum was as much as we are told then OUFC were fools to keep paying it from the very start of their tenancy. I also understand that there are issues over the new scoreboard regarding FK consent. As others have said Kassam & his advisers are a shrewd but ruthless bunch- I do seriously think he would love to drive a wedge between Oxvox & DE & the next couple of months will be very interesting.
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 11, 2016 15:30:20 GMT
I was also wondering what might be in dispute. Off the top of my head:- - relaying the pitch after London Welsh, and then didn't it get reseeded this Summer again. Who pays for this? - scoreboard replacement. I think it was said the previous scoreboard was so old there was no way of repairing it. So who paid for taking away the old one / buying (or leasing) the new one? - coffees. Wasn't the cost of coffees in the boxes / lounges £24K per year, so this got dropped. also the match day restaurant. - sharing stadium drink revenues. I thought once we were told a deal had been done to share them, but later did this get dropped? - pitchside advertising. Noticable how many are blank this season with just the manufacturer's name. Is it correct that these are between sponsors and stadco, rather than sponsors and the club? - the match day ST scanners / enhancements to online booking? Who paid for this? That's a pretty good summary slappy. From my limited "inside" info there is a long list of things FK is not maintaining/repairing. On the other hand our shutting up the restaurant & holding MOM in the bar aftermatch is (apparently) another touchy matter. If you rent a 4 Bedroomed House & board up one of the bedrooms you can't just say .."we don't use it therefore we pay less rent" - you pay whatever was spelt out in the rental Agreement. As a lounger the Tea/Coffee situation is now a complete fiasco with up to 70 people tussling for a paper cup at half time & at every match supplies run out! If the cost per annum was as much as we are told then OUFC were fools to keep paying it from the very start of their tenancy. I also understand that there are issues over the new scoreboard regarding FK consent. As others have said Kassam & his advisers are a shrewd but ruthless bunch- I do seriously think he would love to drive a wedge between Oxvox & DE & the next couple of months will be very interesting. 70? More like 100. 200 club split into two lounges. Which I'm told breaches the licence as each Longview is only allowed to hold 75. Its like a free for all now to get milk 😃
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Post by bazzer9461 on Oct 11, 2016 15:42:25 GMT
Just a thought and there will be those out there smart enough to give me the reasons why not but here's a suggestion/thought: As our attendances rise, (the need has already been proven a few times with the call for a 4th temporary stand) is there a time when the stadium becomes "not fit for purpose"? Yes we could restrict the attendance but you wouldn't want a few thousand milling around outside would you. So, if unfit for purpose would we, hypothetically take up an offer from, say MK Dons, to ground share with them until the stadium was fit or an alternative option was found? Could we then dispute having to pay rent on a stadium not fit for purpose, therefore leaving someone holding a white elephant whilst trudging slowly to the negotiation table? Just a thought-short term pain, long term ...game I tell you what Winkleman would love us to go there and I'm sure his rent would be more than FK charges at the moment, So in answer to your suggestion that has to be an emphatic no.
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Post by Junior on Oct 11, 2016 17:01:09 GMT
If de questioning payments has led to us not getting a stand, then blocking fans abuse is probably not a bad idea if we seriously want oxvox to succeed They could have removed any abusive comments and allowed the genuine questions that supporters are raising as this forum has allowed. It does not look favourably on the Oxford Mail when they act in such a way and censor comments that are made at their invitation. They themselves could also be asking questions. Questions about The Priory situation would be a good start. Anyone would think they were scared of him.
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Post by harrycarry on Oct 11, 2016 17:14:48 GMT
Just some random thoughts on a Tuesday. If we had won on Sunday, say with the same scoreline as Wimbledon beat us, we would have been 7th, just outside the playoffs. Positivity and possibly attendances might have started creeping up. Again, the calls, justification and pressure for the 4th stand could increase. We are already averaging 8,500 for home games, with over 7,600 of those being Yellows. We have home games to come vs Millwall, Coventry, Northampton, Bolton, Sheff Utd, MK Dons and Bristol Rover who will all probably sell out of their 1,500 allocation. I feel OxVox and DE are being smart, trying to get a deal done on the stadium ASAP, and a back up being the 4th stand because we are on the up....? I said before we are not geared up for the Championship just yet. We could be not far off on the playing front, but organizationally, commercially and more important stadium wise, we are miles away. I am not sure how long it would take to build a 4th stand? But with DE saying that we could complete on a stadium purchase in 10-12 weeks that would take up through to January. Then its 7 months till the new season starts.... The Championship is a huge incentive with over the half the current Championship clubs having the potential to bring 2,000 to 3,000 or more to our place... So what am I saying, not sure, but something along the lines of I would be happy for us to consolidate in Div 1. Lets get the stadium, but not rush and pay too much. I agre we need to get a bigger capacity ASAP, and with a proper 4th stand. We can't afford to turn away custom, and need all the home and away fans we can cram in. We don't even need to be in the Championship for bigger attendances, as we frequently limit away fans even when we can't sell out home sections, I still don't get that but I know I am in the minority on this one. I wonder how much ncome we would have declined by the end of the season with this approach? Certainly enough for a new playing surface, scoreboard, player or lawyer to tackle FK.
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Post by oxfordyankee on Oct 11, 2016 17:28:01 GMT
One thing we have in our favour: neither those involved in OxVox, or DE, are concerned about ego and who leads in this transaction. I suspect one will happily be the strategic fall guy for the other to ensure that the end goal is achieved.
Let FK think he's won. Let him crow about how he got the deal he wanted. All that matters to all of us and to those charged with making it happen, is that OUFC can treat the ground as its home, even if it is not the legal owner.
Can't see an ego in sight that will stop that from happening, at least if FK is genuine.
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Post by davox on Oct 11, 2016 19:40:44 GMT
Kassam is a cheap odious little toad. I've played at a golf club he also owns and the clubhouse is the most run down, delapidated, out of date shed of a building you've ever seen. Staff didnt speak English and I doubt they had a legal right to work in the U.K. He's a pathetic greedy fish n' chip shop man that can't handle the fact that he failed as a football club owner and has professional jealousy of those who've managed to turn the club around. Sell the stadium to those who know how to run things and never darken our doorstop again!
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Oct 11, 2016 19:57:51 GMT
I think the telling part of FKs statement is "This will not happen overnight. It could be many months, or even years, but the intention is there." That indicates to me that he is in absolutely no hurry at all. If indeed the intention IS truly there.
Personally I doubt that (especially since news has come out of his spat with DE), but I guess all OxVox can do is to act as if they are taking him at his word to see what pans out. Any notion DE has that the stadium will be in community ownership within three months is (to make an understatement) a bit optimistic IMO!
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Post by uptheus on Oct 11, 2016 21:54:41 GMT
Tit for tat. p*ss him off over calling the ground Grenoble Rd he gets shitty over a few quid payments. Not really surprised, but proves even more how difficult he is to deal with, and how well oxvox have done to get this far I'd like to think OxVox have done well, but I think it'll have more to do with what Kassam will get out of it rather than their negotiation skills.
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Post by uptheus on Oct 11, 2016 22:02:05 GMT
This is becoming interesting. So Eales admits OUFC owe Kassam money, but nothing significant, yet Kassam seems exercised enough by what's owed to hold our fourth stand ambitions back. Eales has invited Kassam to contact him, but has not offered to take the first step himself. Meanwhile, Kassam still seems willing to talk to OxVox about community ownership of the club. Must admit, the latter does seem less genuine this morning, but I still think it's imperative OxVox continue to negotiate with Kassam on the subject. To label Kassam a snake might help us let off steam but won't take OUFC forward at this stage. Don't pussyfoot around Kassam. Well done Darryl, show him for the real leech he is. Kassam won't run away from the OxVox negotiations because he knows it'll mean he can earn more with that deal than any other potential deal. We all know that all that motivates Kassam is money and the lure of additional development land will prove too hard for him to turn down. Keep ramping it up.
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Post by uptheus on Oct 11, 2016 22:07:04 GMT
Every action has a reaction and all that. Club pulls the restaurant - tea and coffee and beer prices go up. Club refuses to use the stadium name- kassam gets shitty and pulls the fourth stand. Oxvox talk sensibly and politely to him, we get as far as we ever have with getting the stadium off him. What ever we think of him, what ever protests we think might help, it may be in the best interests of Oufc to keep them to ourselves until the point we either own the stadium, or oxvox confirm the deal is dead, otherwise we p*ss him off again, and guess what he will do. It doesn't matter how you talk to him it's money that motivates him.
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Post by uptheus on Oct 11, 2016 22:12:41 GMT
Kassam is throwing his toys out of the pram because the club are finally standing up to him with regards to the poor standards of the stadium. Boo hoo. I just hope the timing of this doesn't affect the stadium purchase. I don't think he's "throwing his toys out of the pram". There's clearly a dispute be it justified or not and unfortunately while Kassam still owns the stadium he has every right to stop anything happening if he thinks he's owed money. Look at it in another way. If you owned a house with tenants in and they wanted you to put up a fence for example in the garden but they hadn't paid their rent for 2 months would you do it for them? Yes it might be a little childish from Kassam but if he's owed money he's owed money. I'm not for one minute taking his side but just looking at the situation logically. He's a businessman at the end of the day and is out to make money. In the corporate world a couple of thousand can cause people to do petty things. I wouldn't pay a landlord full rent if I'd communicated to him on numerous times that the property wasn't meeting the right level of standards or what was originally agreed. By not paying him/her I'd like to think it would bring them to the table to discuss, especially if that person was totally motivated by money ONLY. Great move by DE and added more pressure in getting the deal done in a 10-12 week period, especially if buyer and seller wanted to do a deal. This puts the ball firmly back in Kassam's court. He must be royally p*ssed off. Now that's clever.
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Post by foley on Oct 12, 2016 6:19:05 GMT
I'm an OXVOX life member and I fully support Jem and the committee, but I just can't see where the money is coming from? We don't have the group of 'high nett worth' individuals that Pompey had. And am I the only one who thinks that this should not be playing out in public? Sorry, but as Luke Skywalker said as the Millennium Falcon approached the Death Star: "I've got a bad feeling about this". [70s reference for you youngsters] I would assume that we will get an update relatively soon which will give more of the detail. Oxvox appear to have been putting in a whole load of work on this and the financing will undoubtedly be one of the things that they are trying to find a solution on.
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