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Post by minime on Oct 8, 2016 11:35:38 GMT
Whilst I get the whole rogue owner thing can anyone tell me how the club is supposed to make any meaningful profit without a stadium. This is nuts and must have de looking at his options. I seem to remember him saying that to make the club successful we'd need to own the stadium..... What we need is the income from ownership. If the stadium can be community owned and then put at the disposal of the club to utilise for conference, catering and such like, then it will work. No owner of the club would be able to sell the ground but would not be paying rent in the stupid sums that is the present arrangement. (if at all!) It is a win, win solution. If it's "community owned" then why should OUFC take all the revenue from conferences etc? It's Community owned, not oufc owned!
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Post by minime on Oct 8, 2016 11:36:22 GMT
You really think the "community" will own anything? Why not ? Because the "community" are not buying Jack Shit are they?
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Post by Barts on Oct 8, 2016 12:08:00 GMT
I think we should concentrate more on securing the stadium before trying to work out what oufc get from it.
If we get a decent rental agreement with profits from match day that'd do me!
I'd be interested to know where the money is coming from though. I can't see any coming from the council, with all the budget cuts over the last 12 months.
The only investment I can see coming from them is land. I.e. they give kassam £5m worth of land and then the community trust pay them back the £5m over a set period.
Whichever way you look at it, it's one step forward than we were yesterday, so well done to everyone involved.
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 8, 2016 13:14:08 GMT
Because the "community" are not buying Jack Shit are they? Don't tell me your part of the WE is the only answer brigade? Maybe u should wait till u find out a bit more about the deal before writing it off ?
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Post by ox18 on Oct 8, 2016 13:15:07 GMT
I think we should concentrate more on securing the stadium before trying to work out what oufc get from it. If we get a decent rental agreement with profits from match day that'd do me! I'd be interested to know where the money is coming from though. I can't see any coming from the council, with all the budget cuts over the last 12 months. The only investment I can see coming from them is land. I.e. they give kassam £5m worth of land and then the community trust pay them back the £5m over a set period. Whichever way you look at it, it's one step forward than we were yesterday, so well done to everyone involved. Agree it is one step closer than we were yesterday. By far the best option rather than the club owning it and in the future some rogue chairman puts us in shit street again. Clearly DE has been kept up to date by Oxvox, plus the council must be in some way involved. I just cannot understand why there are so many negative comments. For goodness sake, Oxvox are there to help our club succeed and will not sell the fans or club down the river.
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Post by yellowoptimist on Oct 8, 2016 14:12:45 GMT
I think we should concentrate more on securing the stadium before trying to work out what oufc get from it. If we get a decent rental agreement with profits from match day that'd do me! I'd be interested to know where the money is coming from though. I can't see any coming from the council, with all the budget cuts over the last 12 months. The only investment I can see coming from them is land. I.e. they give kassam £5m worth of land and then the community trust pay them back the £5m over a set period. Whichever way you look at it, it's one step forward than we were yesterday, so well done to everyone involved. Agree it is one step closer than we were yesterday. By far the best option rather than the club owning it and in the future some rogue chairman puts us in shit street again. Clearly DE has been kept up to date by Oxvox, plus the council must be in some way involved. I just cannot understand why there are so many negative comments. For goodness sake, Oxvox are there to help our club succeed and will not sell the fans or club down the river. Don't think there is any questioning of the motivation or capability of Oxvox just the genuineness of the party they are dealing with !
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Post by foley on Oct 8, 2016 14:31:30 GMT
What we need is the income from ownership. If the stadium can be community owned and then put at the disposal of the club to utilise for conference, catering and such like, then it will work. No owner of the club would be able to sell the ground but would not be paying rent in the stupid sums that is the present arrangement. (if at all!) It is a win, win solution. If it's "community owned" then why should OUFC take all the revenue from conferences etc? It's Community owned, not oufc owned! I would imagine that the Community will have use of the facilities. So they may well benefit from Conferences. OUFC so will be able to make money out of the catering in the Stadium, the restaurant etc. OUFC hopefully will be able to hold their own functions and make money out of thsi. The community will no doubt benefit as well but if the deal is structured well, OUFC will be a whole load better off than they are now.
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Post by scoob on Oct 8, 2016 15:11:56 GMT
I think we should concentrate more on securing the stadium before trying to work out what oufc get from it. If we get a decent rental agreement with profits from match day that'd do me! I'd be interested to know where the money is coming from though. I can't see any coming from the council, with all the budget cuts over the last 12 months. The only investment I can see coming from them is land. I.e. they give kassam £5m worth of land and then the community trust pay them back the £5m over a set period. Whichever way you look at it, it's one step forward than we were yesterday, so well done to everyone involved. Why should the council give any money. There is no reason for gifts if the financing is structured correctly. However, the council may be able to provide financing to the Community Trust. The key to any purchase will be to keeping the overall financing costs as low as possible and that is where the council have indicated in the past that they may be able to help. The Football Supporters Federation will be able to provide assistance as one of their main functions is to help set up Community ownership of Clubs/Stadia. They can also provide legal advice too. The financing is likely to come from a variety of sources including individuals.
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Post by scoob on Oct 8, 2016 15:23:52 GMT
What we need is the income from ownership. If the stadium can be community owned and then put at the disposal of the club to utilise for conference, catering and such like, then it will work. No owner of the club would be able to sell the ground but would not be paying rent in the stupid sums that is the present arrangement. (if at all!) It is a win, win solution. If it's "community owned" then why should OUFC take all the revenue from conferences etc? It's Community owned, not oufc owned! Assuming that the Community is a group of OUFC fans (each fan will own a share in the Trust) set up for the benefit of football in Oxford then it will be up to the trust how any profit is distributed. The Stadco produces significant earnings before depreciation, interest and taxes are taken into account. Any surplus cash currently passes to Kassam via his group of companies. OUFC and/or the Community Trust will have more incentive to use the stadium if they can make a decent return. At the moment the Stadco appears to profit from everything due to its excessive charges.
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Post by themightyaldo on Oct 8, 2016 15:37:20 GMT
This is just another delaying tactic until the 25 year lease is up.
Then he will do what he wants.
If there is a covenant saying sport has to be played on the site the OGB will build a Leisure Centre surrounded by houses
Oxvox should know by now that this monster can never be trusted
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Post by frankie on Oct 8, 2016 15:44:15 GMT
Agree it is one step closer than we were yesterday. By far the best option rather than the club owning it and in the future some rogue chairman puts us in shit street again. Clearly DE has been kept up to date by Oxvox, plus the council must be in some way involved. I just cannot understand why there are so many negative comments. For goodness sake, Oxvox are there to help our club succeed and will not sell the fans or club down the river. Don't think there is any questioning of the motivation or capability of Oxvox just the genuineness of the party they are dealing with ![/b] Agree 100%. OxVox, DE and OCC can make it work for the benefit of all. That I have no doubt. But FK being magnanimous? Bucks and building rights come to mind.
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Post by minime on Oct 8, 2016 16:05:55 GMT
Because the "community" are not buying Jack Shit are they? Don't tell me your part of the WE is the only answer brigade? Maybe u should wait till u find out a bit more about the deal before writing it off ? Not part of any brigade. But the truth is the Community will own jack! The council may own a bit and Oxvox may own a bit and a wealthy investor may own a bit but the community will own nothing!
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Post by minime on Oct 8, 2016 16:07:21 GMT
I think we should concentrate more on securing the stadium before trying to work out what oufc get from it. If we get a decent rental agreement with profits from match day that'd do me! I'd be interested to know where the money is coming from though. I can't see any coming from the council, with all the budget cuts over the last 12 months. The only investment I can see coming from them is land. I.e. they give kassam £5m worth of land and then the community trust pay them back the £5m over a set period. Whichever way you look at it, it's one step forward than we were yesterday, so well done to everyone involved. Why should the council give any money. There is no reason for gifts if the financing is structured correctly. However, the council may be able to provide financing to the Community Trust. The key to any purchase will be to keeping the overall financing costs as low as possible and that is where the council have indicated in the past that they may be able to help. The Football Supporters Federation will be able to provide assistance as one of their main functions is to help set up Community ownership of Clubs/Stadia. They can also provide legal advice too. The financing is likely to come from a variety of sources including individuals. Political minefield for a CC to own a sporting venue especially a football one
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 8, 2016 16:15:17 GMT
Don't tell me your part of the WE is the only answer brigade? Maybe u should wait till u find out a bit more about the deal before writing it off ? Not part of any brigade. But the truth is the Community will own jack! The council may own a bit and Oxvox may own a bit and a wealthy investor may own a bit but the community will own nothing! Wait so fans may own a bit, the council a bit, oxvox and the club a bit, and a wealthy investor a bit. Wow that almost sounds like a sort of community
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Post by scoob on Oct 8, 2016 16:33:39 GMT
Why should the council give any money. There is no reason for gifts if the financing is structured correctly. However, the council may be able to provide financing to the Community Trust. The key to any purchase will be to keeping the overall financing costs as low as possible and that is where the council have indicated in the past that they may be able to help. The Football Supporters Federation will be able to provide assistance as one of their main functions is to help set up Community ownership of Clubs/Stadia. They can also provide legal advice too. The financing is likely to come from a variety of sources including individuals. Political minefield for a CC to own a sporting venue especially a football one Who said anything about the CC owning anything?
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Post by Pete Burrett on Oct 8, 2016 16:36:50 GMT
Can't believe some people are worrying about what constitutes a 'community' in respect of the potentially community-owned stadium.
OxVox have made it clear that negotiations have been ongoing for some time, and continue. They've also made it clear that details will not be made public at this time.
They can't win, can they?
If they talk to Kassam they're apparently bound to be ripped off. If they didn't talk to Kassam no doubt they'd be accused of not fulfilling their role properly. They give a holding statement and some vilify them for lack of detail. If they reported every word of their conversations with Kassam, no doubt they'd be criticised for naively betraying trust.
Here's an idea. Accept that OxVox are talking to Kassam in the club's best interests and that supporters will know full details once negotiations are played out.
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Post by Barts on Oct 8, 2016 21:59:43 GMT
I think we should concentrate more on securing the stadium before trying to work out what oufc get from it. If we get a decent rental agreement with profits from match day that'd do me! I'd be interested to know where the money is coming from though. I can't see any coming from the council, with all the budget cuts over the last 12 months. The only investment I can see coming from them is land. I.e. they give kassam £5m worth of land and then the community trust pay them back the £5m over a set period. Whichever way you look at it, it's one step forward than we were yesterday, so well done to everyone involved. Why should the council give any money. There is no reason for gifts if the financing is structured correctly. However, the council may be able to provide financing to the Community Trust. The key to any purchase will be to keeping the overall financing costs as low as possible and that is where the council have indicated in the past that they may be able to help. The Football Supporters Federation will be able to provide assistance as one of their main functions is to help set up Community ownership of Clubs/Stadia. They can also provide legal advice too. The financing is likely to come from a variety of sources including individuals. 'The council may be able to help provide financing to the community trust' Financially I'd be surprised if they can (as I've previously stated) if they do get involved I would have thought it'd be in a different way.
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Post by scoob on Oct 8, 2016 23:03:43 GMT
Why should the council give any money. There is no reason for gifts if the financing is structured correctly. However, the council may be able to provide financing to the Community Trust. The key to any purchase will be to keeping the overall financing costs as low as possible and that is where the council have indicated in the past that they may be able to help. The Football Supporters Federation will be able to provide assistance as one of their main functions is to help set up Community ownership of Clubs/Stadia. They can also provide legal advice too. The financing is likely to come from a variety of sources including individuals. 'The council may be able to help provide financing to the community trust' Financially I'd be surprised if they can (as I've previously stated) if they do get involved I would have thought it'd be in a different way. You may be right but councils are able to provide loans to community organisations and also companies but will require interest to be paid and repayment terms. Northampton Town's stand redevelopment being a case in point. That went wrong because due to poor control of when/where the money was handed over to but it shows that there this is possible. Whether the local council can/will is an entirely different matter. It will depend on how the stadium is purchased and whether it complies with the rules that the Council has to abide by. All councils have large funds on deposit earning a pittance of interest (thats why some got caught out by trying to maximise their returns by placing funds in Iceland some years back) so lending to organisations at a higher rate of return is better for the taxpayer too. However, I am sure that there must be stringent rules to secure any debt (I hope). Gifting of any resource, as you suggested, is a totally different matter which would be politically difficult. Of course everything that has been stated in this thread is pure speculation of what may happen as none of us know what discussions have taken place which is the only was that this can be done until there is at least an outline agreement and plan for the purchase. BTW where I mentioned the FSF above I should have said Supporters Direct.
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Post by Barts on Oct 8, 2016 23:48:22 GMT
'The council may be able to help provide financing to the community trust' Financially I'd be surprised if they can (as I've previously stated) if they do get involved I would have thought it'd be in a different way. You may be right but councils are able to provide loans to community organisations and also companies but will require interest to be paid and repayment terms. Northampton Town's stand redevelopment being a case in point. That went wrong because due to poor control of when/where the money was handed over to but it shows that there this is possible. Whether the local council can/will is an entirely different matter. It will depend on how the stadium is purchased and whether it complies with the rules that the Council has to abide by. All councils have large funds on deposit earning a pittance of interest (thats why some got caught out by trying to maximise their returns by placing funds in Iceland some years back) so lending to organisations at a higher rate of return is better for the taxpayer too. However, I am sure that there must be stringent rules to secure any debt (I hope). Gifting of any resource, as you suggested, is a totally different matter which would be politically difficult. Of course everything that has been stated in this thread is pure speculation of what may happen as none of us know what discussions have taken place which is the only was that this can be done until there is at least an outline agreement and plan for the purchase. BTW where I mentioned the FSF above I should have said Supporters Direct. You seem to have a better understanding of council matters than me, so I will read with interest your future comments. (I am being sincere btw and not flippant!) I just felt that with all the cuts the council have made over the past 12 months, it wouldn't go down to well with the voters if, on the one hand they say they have to cut back on childerns centres for example and on the other they can help fund a community trust to buy a football stadium. As I've said before, I'm fully behind oxvox in what they're trying to do and I hope and pray that they can pull it off! Coyys
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Post by mcf86 on Oct 9, 2016 3:35:03 GMT
If we have 100% trust in OxVox and 0% trust in the stadium owner then I'd sleep a little easier. Full credit for OxVox in getting talks on the stadium ownership off the ground, just hope they tread very carefully with fk, until there's something positive and set in stone I'll remain sceptical.
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Post by ox4eva on Oct 9, 2016 8:53:19 GMT
What about applying for lottery funding?
It would be a community facility so why not!
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 9, 2016 8:56:11 GMT
What about applying for lottery funding? It would be a community facility so why not! I've been applying for it every sat since it started
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Post by ox4eva on Oct 9, 2016 9:06:39 GMT
What about applying for lottery funding? It would be a community facility so why not! I've been applying for it every sat since it started Ain't we all! But lottery funding is surely an option?
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Post by Pete Burrett on Oct 9, 2016 11:06:58 GMT
I've been applying for it every sat since it started Ain't we all! But lottery funding is surely an option? Worth applying at least! The National Lottery has handed out a whopping £13bn in grants to good causes since its inception in 1994. The sport pot is a large slice of the funding pie with over £3bn being given out in sports grants and they are always accepting applications.
There are five levels of lottery funding - up to £5,000; £5,000-£25,000; £25,000-£100,000; £100,000-£500,000; and then everything over half a million pounds. So for those who are in need of funding at any level then this would be a good place to start looking for grants to help your community sports club.
The National Lottery has long been a supporter of good causes with 28% of revenue going towards good causes. They have sponsored Olympic athletes as well as funding huge projects and working with small sports community schemes.
They give out many sports grants each year but with thousands of applications coming in all the time competition is fierce, so you'll need to demonstrate why your project needs the funds. There is also the possibility of matched funding when you apply for a National Lottery Grant, where they will match the funding that you have raised elsewhere either by fundraising yourself or through smaller commercial partners.
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Post by daveoufc on Oct 9, 2016 18:06:06 GMT
Anyone hear the interview Jerome did with Daryl at oxford marathon was on at half time. Daryl said he has put forward 3 bids/ options to buy the stadium 1 of which is still on the table.
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Post by makv on Oct 9, 2016 23:32:45 GMT
Anyone hear the interview Jerome did with Daryl at oxford marathon was on at half time. Daryl said he has put forward 3 bids/ options to buy the stadium 1 of which is still on the table. This has been quoted on about 3 different threads now. We seem to have a large number of threads on the same topic. Argh.
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Post by charliesghost on Oct 10, 2016 17:56:59 GMT
Agree it is one step closer than we were yesterday. By far the best option rather than the club owning it and in the future some rogue chairman puts us in shit street again. Clearly DE has been kept up to date by Oxvox, plus the council must be in some way involved. I just cannot understand why there are so many negative comments. For goodness sake, Oxvox are there to help our club succeed and will not sell the fans or club down the river. Don't think there is any questioning of the motivation or capability of Oxvox just the genuineness of the party they are dealing with ! Easy to say, but I don't think that that is fair. Firoz has long maintained this position in private. He told Senett the same years ago, and then told me the same two or three years ago. As such it is just a re-statement of a long-held position. The problem is that he wants to combine that with maximising his return!! So, like Boris Johnson, he is 'Pro cake - both eating and having it'. The options back then were either that somebody paid him 14 million for the lot (stadium plus car parks etc) or that he would sell 'the stands' for 8-10 million in return for being able to plaster development all over the surrounding area, thus limiting the future development of the stadium. This involved either building Hi-Rise car-parks (un-economic at 10 mill) or getting planing for building new car parks south of Grenoble Road (ruled out by SODC for forseeable future, since formalised). So that option petered out. Thank God. Because it would have set in cement a ghastly situation by which OUFC was condemned to play forever in a stadium not big enough for sustainable Championship football. To re-cap, the AVERAGE attendance in the Championship is now 18,000. To be sustainable as a lower mid-table side, you need 15/16,000. For that average, you need a stadium capacity of 18,000 minimum. And even that ain't enough. It would mean turning droves away 5 or 6 times a season. We have been away from the top two leagues now for such a long time that people have totally lost track of what is required, in a division where normal playing budgets are north of 10 million (ie more than three times our current one). The Championship is now a successful globally watched competition in its own right and there is precious little room in it for clubs attempting to imitate Brisbane Road. Gradually, and rather ruthlessly, the requirement is becoming clear. A fanbase and broader catchment area that enables minimum attendance of 12k and 20k for bigger matches..... and a stadium that can both accommodate that and enable such numbers to come, go and spend money. Signing up for any deal that pegs us back in a stadium that cannot accommodate Championship football would just be a re-run of the frustrations of the 80s and 90s, when the Manor meant that we were always fighting with one hand tied behind our back. We have a bit (not much) of leverage and, in my view, should not sacrifice that lightly. But, that all said, no-one should doubt that Firoz would rather sell to a trust. He would dearly love to solve his PR legacy issue without any financial sacrifice. I just wouldn't personally advise enabling that without ensuring that 'we' got a deal that, five years later, still looked like a good one. Not saying it's easy, mind...... Good luck - but please don't make the Merry mistake of forgetting that these stadium deals need to be thought through pretty thoroughly!!!
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Post by nottsyellow on Oct 10, 2016 18:20:38 GMT
What is Kassam actually prepared to sell? There are 4 parts:- - The football ground - 3 stands and "football related rooms" in South Stand. - The conference and catering facilities in the South Stand. - Car park surrounding the ground. - Overflow car park. As Charlie infers the conference facilities and immediate car park are vital to provide the extra income and space. The overflow carpark would be very useful but I would guess Kassam may be unwilling to release this as part of the package as it is valuable housing land. Also the Conference facilities are interesting as these are probably key to the profitability of his two hotels on the site. If the trust had control of the conference facilities, it would be quite nice to be able to charge his customers from the hotels for coffee and food!
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Post by oufcyellows on Oct 10, 2016 19:24:42 GMT
Don't think there is any questioning of the motivation or capability of Oxvox just the genuineness of the party they are dealing with ! Easy to say, but I don't think that that is fair. Firoz has long maintained this position in private. He told Senett the same years ago, and then told me the same two or three years ago. As such it is just a re-statement of a long-held position. The problem is that he wants to combine that with maximising his return!! So, like Boris Johnson, he is 'Pro cake - both eating and having it'. The options back then were either that somebody paid him 14 million for the lot (stadium plus car parks etc) or that he would sell 'the stands' for 8-10 million in return for being able to plaster development all over the surrounding area, thus limiting the future development of the stadium. This involved either building Hi-Rise car-parks (un-economic at 10 mill) or getting planing for building new car parks south of Grenoble Road (ruled out by SODC for forseeable future, since formalised). So that option petered out. Thank God. Because it would have set in cement a ghastly situation by which OUFC was condemned to play forever in a stadium not big enough for sustainable Championship football. To re-cap, the AVERAGE attendance in the Championship is now 18,000. To be sustainable as a lower mid-table side, you need 15/16,000. For that average, you need a stadium capacity of 18,000 minimum. And even that ain't enough. It would mean turning droves away 5 or 6 times a season. We have been away from the top two leagues now for such a long time that people have totally lost track of what is required, in a division where normal playing budgets are north of 10 million (ie more than three times our current one). The Championship is now a successful globally watched competition in its own right and there is precious little room in it for clubs attempting to imitate Brisbane Road. Gradually, and rather ruthlessly, the requirement is becoming clear. A fanbase and broader catchment area that enables minimum attendance of 12k and 20k for bigger matches..... and a stadium that can both accommodate that and enable such numbers to come, go and spend money. Signing up for any deal that pegs us back in a stadium that cannot accommodate Championship football would just be a re-run of the frustrations of the 80s and 90s, when the Manor meant that we were always fighting with one hand tied behind our back. We have a bit (not much) of leverage and, in my view, should not sacrifice that lightly. But, that all said, no-one should doubt that Firoz would rather sell to a trust. He would dearly love to solve his PR legacy issue without any financial sacrifice. I just wouldn't personally advise enabling that without ensuring that 'we' got a deal that, five years later, still looked like a good one. Not saying it's easy, mind...... Good luck - but please don't make the Merry mistake of forgetting that these stadium deals need to be thought through pretty thoroughly!!! Did he also tell u and senett, that he wouldn't sell to you ? You have said plenty of times that if someone can make the figures work then the kassam would be a viable stadium. But u never thought it would be possible. No it wouldn't be ready to house your 12-18k if we got promoted this season, but of course neither would WE. And if there's a deal to be done and the price comes down as it is fk leaving a legacy to a community trust, then surely that's the best option for the club. We at last get rid of the high rent, we have an opportunity to maximise revenue, the ability to expand, and best of all it could be within a matter of months rather than years down the line. Did fk ever agree to the idea of bashing down the stadium and part funding WE as the sweetener, or was that just the idea ?
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Post by foley on Oct 10, 2016 19:33:39 GMT
Don't think there is any questioning of the motivation or capability of Oxvox just the genuineness of the party they are dealing with ! Easy to say, but I don't think that that is fair. Firoz has long maintained this position in private. He told Senett the same years ago, and then told me the same two or three years ago. As such it is just a re-statement of a long-held position. The problem is that he wants to combine that with maximising his return!! So, like Boris Johnson, he is 'Pro cake - both eating and having it'. The options back then were either that somebody paid him 14 million for the lot (stadium plus car parks etc) or that he would sell 'the stands' for 8-10 million in return for being able to plaster development all over the surrounding area, thus limiting the future development of the stadium. This involved either building Hi-Rise car-parks (un-economic at 10 mill) or getting planing for building new car parks south of Grenoble Road (ruled out by SODC for forseeable future, since formalised). So that option petered out. Thank God. Because it would have set in cement a ghastly situation by which OUFC was condemned to play forever in a stadium not big enough for sustainable Championship football. To re-cap, the AVERAGE attendance in the Championship is now 18,000. To be sustainable as a lower mid-table side, you need 15/16,000. For that average, you need a stadium capacity of 18,000 minimum. And even that ain't enough. It would mean turning droves away 5 or 6 times a season. We have been away from the top two leagues now for such a long time that people have totally lost track of what is required, in a division where normal playing budgets are north of 10 million (ie more than three times our current one). The Championship is now a successful globally watched competition in its own right and there is precious little room in it for clubs attempting to imitate Brisbane Road. Gradually, and rather ruthlessly, the requirement is becoming clear. A fanbase and broader catchment area that enables minimum attendance of 12k and 20k for bigger matches..... and a stadium that can both accommodate that and enable such numbers to come, go and spend money. Signing up for any deal that pegs us back in a stadium that cannot accommodate Championship football would just be a re-run of the frustrations of the 80s and 90s, when the Manor meant that we were always fighting with one hand tied behind our back. We have a bit (not much) of leverage and, in my view, should not sacrifice that lightly. But, that all said, no-one should doubt that Firoz would rather sell to a trust. He would dearly love to solve his PR legacy issue without any financial sacrifice. I just wouldn't personally advise enabling that without ensuring that 'we' got a deal that, five years later, still looked like a good one. Not saying it's easy, mind...... Good luck - but please don't make the Merry mistake of forgetting that these stadium deals need to be thought through pretty thoroughly!!! Agree with a lot of that. DE is aiming at the Championship and we may be not a long way away from it. I reckon that we need a 20,000 Stadium (which was the original plan for the Kassam?) What is clear is that we can't stay in the Championship if we get there in a 12,500 3 sided Stadium so the sooner we can get the ground resolved and the 4th stand built, the better (with little debt which I assume is the plan)
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