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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 15:28:19 GMT
There are many inside and outside of America who fear for the future with Trumo in charge. The Democrats should have had victory in their grasp, but Clinton was unfortunately not the right candidate. I'm sure she and Trump have plenty of skeletons in their cupboard and she should have exploited it more. What is clear, to me, and I'm sure many others is that Trump has using menacing and threatening language towards their neighbours. Building a wall around Mexico hardly seems friendly. Putting up trade barriers hardly helps a world economy that hasn't yet recovered from recession. If he should be toppled etc we have a replacement in Pence, who signed a bill to jail gay couples for registering for a marriage licence., and whose view of women's rights could be described as Neanderthal-lite. There is no good option from here. Trumps plan to enact a tariff on Chinese and Mexican should be blocked otherwise there will be a big impact on global markets. I'm not religious but I think Trumps attack on Muslims stating they are not welcome is at best unhelpful, and at worst provocative. His statement that Arab Americans were happy when 9-11 happened is repugnant. No wonder so many are opposed to the election of President Trumpton
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Post by Pete Burrett on Nov 9, 2016 15:30:21 GMT
Recently spent five weeks in the US. During down time it was difficult to find anything worth watching on TV, so we tended to watch CNN. A lot of CNN. And it was wall to wall Trump v Clinton, as you might have expected.
We did hear some 'interesting' things though. One was Nate, from Virginia. Nate was proud to boast about his redneck, commie-hating credentials. Nate was all in favour of the wall and banning Muslims from America. Nate also made it clear that if Trump was elected then failed to make good on his promises, Nate and his mates (and, presumably, millions like them) would 'deal with him'. Now, Nate would probably have no way of following up his threat, but I wonder what, if any, plans are being drawn up for an early Trump exit?
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Post by headingtonutd on Nov 9, 2016 17:27:38 GMT
Recently spent five weeks in the US. During down time it was difficult to find anything worth watching on TV, so we tended to watch CNN. A lot of CNN. And it was wall to wall Trump v Clinton, as you might have expected. We did hear some 'interesting' things though. One was Nate, from Virginia. Nate was proud to boast about his redneck, commie-hating credentials. Nate was all in favour of the wall and banning Muslims from America. Nate also made it clear that if Trump was elected then failed to make good on his promises, Nate and his mates (and, presumably, millions like them) would 'deal with him'. Now, Nate would probably have no way of following up his threat, but I wonder what, if any, plans are being drawn up for an early Trump exit? Trump can't and won't follow up on his promises. He was pandering to the disenfranchised and the lower class, poorly educated, white population who never normally bothered to vote because nobody spoke their language. He has given them people to blame for their position and has promised to rid the country of them. As history has taught us economic hardship (the wall street crash in the late 1920's early 30's) opens the door for opportunistic and charismatic leaders to offer a focus for the resentment and hatred. Immigrants and the establishment. Hitler did it in Germany and took a party from UKip levels to power. Trump promised early on to build a physical wall along the boarder with Mexico. Impractical, outrageously expensive and virtually impossible to do. He claimed he would make Mexico fund it. I'd be curious to see how that conversation went. He also said building work would start on DAY ONE. I would bet my house it won't. He said he'd jail both Clintons. The level of hatred towards that section of 'political elite' cannot be underestimated and delighted and mobilised his support but what he failed to mention was that you need evidence and a crime to convict people. The FBI investigated and found no crime to answer. Not even the president can just jail people on a whim, well not public figures at any rate! He is an opportunist who played to the people by pushing the bounds of accepted political behaviour to reach people who didn't normally bother to vote. That's why the pollsters had such a hard time calling it.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Nov 9, 2016 17:39:24 GMT
Recently spent five weeks in the US. During down time it was difficult to find anything worth watching on TV, so we tended to watch CNN. A lot of CNN. And it was wall to wall Trump v Clinton, as you might have expected. We did hear some 'interesting' things though. One was Nate, from Virginia. Nate was proud to boast about his redneck, commie-hating credentials. Nate was all in favour of the wall and banning Muslims from America. Nate also made it clear that if Trump was elected then failed to make good on his promises, Nate and his mates (and, presumably, millions like them) would 'deal with him'. Now, Nate would probably have no way of following up his threat, but I wonder what, if any, plans are being drawn up for an early Trump exit? Trump can't and won't follow up on his promises. He was pandering to the disenfranchised and the lower class, poorly educated, white population who never normally bothered to vote because nobody spoke their language. And when he doesn't, will someone help him with an 'early exit'? (I'm trying not to attract the attention of the CIA by being too explicit about what I mean by that ....)
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Post by wallop on Nov 9, 2016 18:33:37 GMT
Recently spent five weeks in the US. During down time it was difficult to find anything worth watching on TV, so we tended to watch CNN. A lot of CNN. And it was wall to wall Trump v Clinton, as you might have expected. We did hear some 'interesting' things though. One was Nate, from Virginia. Nate was proud to boast about his redneck, commie-hating credentials. Nate was all in favour of the wall and banning Muslims from America. Nate also made it clear that if Trump was elected then failed to make good on his promises, Nate and his mates (and, presumably, millions like them) would 'deal with him'. Now, Nate would probably have no way of following up his threat, but I wonder what, if any, plans are being drawn up for an early Trump exit? Trump can't and won't follow up on his promises. He was pandering to the disenfranchised and the lower class, poorly educated, white population who never normally bothered to vote because nobody spoke their language. He has given them people to blame for their position and has promised to rid the country of them. As history has taught us economic hardship (the wall street crash in the late 1920's early 30's) opens the door for opportunistic and charismatic leaders to offer a focus for the resentment and hatred. Immigrants and the establishment. Hitler did it in Germany and took a party from UKip levels to power. Trump promised early on to build a physical wall along the boarder with Mexico. Impractical, outrageously expensive and virtually impossible to do. He claimed he would make Mexico fund it. I'd be curious to see how that conversation went. He also said building work would start on DAY ONE. I would bet my house it won't. He said he'd jail both Clintons. The level of hatred towards that section of 'political elite' cannot be underestimated and delighted and mobilised his support but what he failed to mention was that you need evidence and a crime to convict people. The FBI investigated and found no crime to answer. Not even the president can just jail people on a whim, well not public figures at any rate! He is an opportunist who played to the people by pushing the bounds of accepted political behaviour to reach people who didn't normally bother to vote. That's why the pollsters had such a hard time calling it. Agree with all of that but he will find someone to blame - it's all rigged after all!
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Post by bashamwonderland on Nov 9, 2016 19:28:13 GMT
The election has thrown up an interesting thought for me. About the message which the world has expressed in 2016.
If you vilify 'the right' every day for the best part of two decades, calling them stupid, calling them ill-informed, calling them all manner of names, then you will get bitten.
The media, television and the political class needs to change, and they need to do it quickly.
French and German elections next year right? Strap in!
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Post by essexyellows on Nov 9, 2016 20:17:40 GMT
Suprisingly not everyone "right of centre" is a white, ill informed, knuckle dragging, homophobic racist and calling them such ignites the passion in them to vote. Completely the opposite to the "millenials" & women who didn`t vote & would have been more likely to see Clinton home. Cracking interview on Radio 5 live today where a chap rang in praising Trumps clarity of stance on the Middle East and Muslims......... and the caller was an Asian Muslim from Leeds which certainly scuppered the studio guests!
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Post by Pete Burrett on Nov 9, 2016 20:36:36 GMT
Suprisingly not everyone "right of centre" is a white, ill informed, knuckle dragging, homophobic racist and calling them such ignites the passion in them to vote. Completely the opposite to the "millenials" & women who didn`t vote & would have been more likely to see Clinton home. Cracking interview on Radio 5 live today where a chap rang in praising Trumps clarity of stance on the Middle East and Muslims......... and the caller was an Asian Muslim from Leeds which certainly scuppered the studio guests! Well, quite. To suggest they are would just be silly. Neither are all who lean to the left tree-hugging do-gooders. Left wingers can be patriots, right wingers can have a social conscience. Perhaps part of the problem is the desire to pigeonhole everyone into one of two simplistic camps. And I'm as guilty as anyone of that!
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Post by oufcyellows on Nov 9, 2016 20:40:16 GMT
Suprisingly not everyone "right of centre" is a white, ill informed, knuckle dragging, homophobic racist and calling them such ignites the passion in them to vote. Completely the opposite to the "millenials" & women who didn`t vote & would have been more likely to see Clinton home. Cracking interview on Radio 5 live today where a chap rang in praising Trumps clarity of stance on the Middle East and Muslims......... and the caller was an Asian Muslim from Leeds which certainly scuppered the studio guests! Well, quite. To suggest they are would just be silly. Neither are all who lean to the left tree-hugging do-gooders. Left wingers can be patriots, right wingers can have a social conscience. Perhaps part of the problem is the desire to pigeonhole everyone into one of two simplistic camps. And I'm as guilty as anyone of that!What happens when they swap sides and play as inside forwards
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Post by Pete Burrett on Nov 9, 2016 20:40:54 GMT
Well, quite. To suggest they are would just be silly. Neither are all who lean to the left tree-hugging do-gooders. Left wingers can be patriots, right wingers can have a social conscience. Perhaps part of the problem is the desire to pigeonhole everyone into one of two simplistic camps. And I'm as guilty as anyone of that!What happens when they swap sides and play as inside forwards Trump happens.
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Post by oufcyellows on Nov 9, 2016 20:54:20 GMT
Apparently this is how the 18-25 vote would have looked on its own
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Post by bashamwonderland on Nov 9, 2016 21:06:22 GMT
Apparently this is how the 18-25 vote would have looked on its own Some call it youth, others call it naivety
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Post by Gary Baldi on Nov 9, 2016 21:24:04 GMT
CNN, or as some Republicans call it, the Clinton News Network. With Donna Brazile being a cheeky so in so, I could minorly see their complaint. Trump out performed Mitt the Twit in some minority demographics (Cuban Americans are an example), while Clinton performed worse in some where Obama did well. Proves the support is as variable over there as it is over here when push comes to shove.
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Post by minime on Nov 9, 2016 23:16:59 GMT
There are many inside and outside of America who fear for the future with Trumo in charge. The Democrats should have had victory in their grasp, but Clinton was unfortunately not the right candidate. I'm sure she and Trump have plenty of skeletons in their cupboard and she should have exploited it more. What is clear, to me, and I'm sure many others is that Trump has using menacing and threatening language towards their neighbours. Building a wall around Mexico hardly seems friendly. Putting up trade barriers hardly helps a world economy that hasn't yet recovered from recession. If he should be toppled etc we have a replacement in Pence, who signed a bill to jail gay couples for registering for a marriage licence., and whose view of women's rights could be described as Neanderthal-lite. There is no good option from here. Trumps plan to enact a tariff on Chinese and Mexican should be blocked otherwise there will be a big impact on global markets. I'm not religious but I think Trumps attack on Muslims stating they are not welcome is at best unhelpful, and at worst provocative. His statement that Arab Americans were happy when 9-11 happened is repugnant. No wonder so many are opposed to the election of President Trumpton What Trump is doing is like what Farage would do here in UK. Putting US first and two fingers to the rest. In some aspects it's not that bad but in others it is. With Clinton, war with Russia would have been a near certainty. She would have flattened Syria and Iran would have been next on the cards too. Trump has stated he doesn't want war with anyone. Has even offered hand of friendship to US enemies. I can't see what all the fuss is about......nothing will change. Joseph Schmitz is Donald Trump's foreign policy adviser, he is a Knight of Malta, and was an Executive at Blackwater. He was also involved in the smuggling of weapons to Al Qaeda in Syria. Move along....nothing to see here
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Post by minime on Nov 9, 2016 23:20:53 GMT
Watch the French and Germans vote in right wing governments now as well. Any left wing power is slowly being squashed
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 23:36:40 GMT
Trump bears no relation to Nigel Farage. Trump has used blatantly outrageous attacks on any number of minority groups and has pandered to white working class voters by using tactics not that dissimilar to the nazi party machine. Farage on the other hand lied about the £359m to NHS each week although plenty of remainers were making false promises too. I still wonder in amazement how the worlds wealthiest economy came up with two useless excuses for candidates in US history
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Post by KLYellow on Nov 10, 2016 3:15:59 GMT
Markets rebounded in Asia. Consensus is Trump is and always will be a businessman and thus will support businesses.
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Post by saddletramp on Nov 10, 2016 5:19:40 GMT
Apparently this is how the 18-25 vote would have looked on its own Really ? Do these stats come from the same people who told us about the Clinton "landslide" ? Its a secret vote,unless everyone showed there voting slip,it all speculation.
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Post by saddletramp on Nov 10, 2016 5:24:57 GMT
Trump bears no relation to Nigel Farage. Trump has used blatantly outrageous attacks on any number of minority groups and has pandered to white working class voters by using tactics not that dissimilar to the nazi party machine. Farage on the other hand lied about the £359m to NHS each week although plenty of remainers were making false promises too. I still wonder in amazement how the worlds wealthiest economy came up with two useless excuses for candidates in US history Well obviously Trump bears no relation To Nigel Farage,one is the president of the USA,the other is an MEP. Why do people still keep going on about Farage "lied about the £350 million" to the NHS,he isnt an MP,he isnt in government,he isnt(never was) even a member of the Tory party. Trump can(cant) back up what he said with hard cash and the backing of the state. Please can you explain how Farage was going to make good his statement ?
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Post by oufcyellows on Nov 10, 2016 6:54:42 GMT
Apparently this is how the 18-25 vote would have looked on its own Really ? Do these stats come from the same people who told us about the Clinton "landslide" ? Its a secret vote,unless everyone showed there voting slip,it all speculation. Good point
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Post by wallop on Nov 10, 2016 7:42:50 GMT
Apparently this is how the 18-25 vote would have looked on its own Some call it youth, others call it naivety I remember my Economics lecturer saying 'when I was at University, I was a Trotskyist but then I grew up'. Youth is often idealistic, maturity brings a sense of reality.
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Post by juniper on Nov 10, 2016 8:09:52 GMT
I was told, "if you are 18 and not a socialist you have no heart and if you are 50 and still a socialist you have no brain".
I don't think it was Farage who 'lied' about the £350 million to the NHS. That was on the side of the bus used by Boris, Gove etc. There were two groups who supported Brexit - Grassroots Out and Leave - and i don't think they ever shared a platform. UKIP was behind one and the other was the 'respectable' one led by Boris. They produced their own literature.
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Post by Boogaloo on Nov 10, 2016 9:20:34 GMT
The Great Wall of China measures 2,150 miles. The Mexican border with the US is 1,989 miles. So Donald Trump's proposed wall is only 169 miles shorter than the Great Wall of China. The Great wall of China took approx 20 years to build, so would very interesting to see how Trump gets this all built within his 8 year tenure (assuming people haven't become disillusioned with all his empty promises and vote him out in 2020).
Would also be interesting to seeing how Trump gets Mexico to agree to pay for it.
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Post by Boogaloo on Nov 10, 2016 9:30:59 GMT
I was told, "if you are 18 and not a socialist you have no heart and if you are 50 and still a socialist you have no brain". I don't think it was Farage who 'lied' about the £350 million to the NHS. That was on the side of the bus used by Boris, Gove etc. There were two groups who supported Brexit - Grassroots Out and Leave - and i don't think they ever shared a platform. UKIP was behind one and the other was the 'respectable' one led by Boris. They produced their own literature. Socialism is something which on paper sounds good in principle. Equality for all, wealth distributed evenly across all workers, but the trouble is that it breeds apathy. Why would someone train for 6 years at medical school to become a doctor, when they can get paid the same amount for being a binman? Plus workers are less likely to go the extra mile to help. And why should they? If they get promoted - they still get the same amount of money in their pocket. What's in it for them? Even now after the collapse of the Soviet Union and Iron Curtain in 1991, the former European Communist countries are miles behind Western Europe in terms of development. Capitalism does have it's faults - lots of them, but on the whole it is better than Socialism in the fact that it gives people something to strive for.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Nov 10, 2016 9:50:52 GMT
The Great Wall of China measures 2,150 miles. The Mexican border with the US is 1,989 miles. So Donald Trump's proposed wall is only 169 miles shorter than the Great Wall of China. The Great wall of China took approx 20 years to build, so would very interesting to see how Trump gets this all built within his 8 year tenure (assuming people haven't become disillusioned with all his empty promises and vote him out in 2020). Would also be interesting to seeing how Trump gets Mexico to agree to pay for it. Great wall of China was built mostly by slaves and captives from military campaigns iirc.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Nov 10, 2016 9:54:45 GMT
The Great Wall of China measures 2,150 miles. The Mexican border with the US is 1,989 miles. So Donald Trump's proposed wall is only 169 miles shorter than the Great Wall of China. The Great wall of China took approx 20 years to build, so would very interesting to see how Trump gets this all built within his 8 year tenure (assuming people haven't become disillusioned with all his empty promises and vote him out in 2020). Would also be interesting to seeing how Trump gets Mexico to agree to pay for it. Great wall of China was built mostly by slaves and captives from military campaigns iirc. And the Great Wall of Mexico will be built - if at all - by enforced American labour. Get 'em off welfare and into productive work programmes. The German autobahns were built along similar lines by the world's favourite Austrian.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Nov 10, 2016 10:01:01 GMT
I don't think it'll be called the Great Wall of Mexico, Pete. Perhaps it'll be designed as a series of golf resorts - the Trump Wall of Masters, perhaps?
BTW you sound very down on Trump. The news has been telling me he didn't mean a single thing he said so it's business as usual. So I think you can stop worrying.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Nov 10, 2016 10:09:21 GMT
I don't think it'll be called the Great Wall of Mexico, Pete. Perhaps it'll be designed as a series of golf resorts - the Trump Wall of Masters, perhaps? BTW you sound very down on Trump. The news has been telling me he didn't mean a single thing he said so it's business as usual. So I think you can stop worrying. Yes, we've certainly seen the softer side of Mr Trump in the past 24 hours. Apparently his more wayward comments during the campaign were just him playing politics to get into the White House. Once there he will work for ALL Americans, so that's alright then.
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Post by oufcyellows on Nov 10, 2016 10:11:15 GMT
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Post by headingtonutd on Nov 10, 2016 10:29:08 GMT
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