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Post by Pete Burrett on Aug 2, 2016 11:31:17 GMT
The Trump election campaign just keeps on giving! 'Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump has suggested that the November election could be "rigged". He told a rally in Columbus, Ohio, that he had heard "more and more" that the contest would be unfair. He offered no immediate evidence.'
'At another event he called Democratic rival Hillary Clinton "the devil".''Mr Trump has come under fire from across the political divide for remarks he made about the parents of a US Muslim soldier killed in action.'
'Earlier this year, he also complained the Republican primary system was also "rigged" amid party efforts to stop his march to the candidacy.'
Full BBC Article: www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36950083No doubt there will be more to come. This man won't become president, will he?
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Post by pooshooter on Aug 2, 2016 11:45:39 GMT
If he does we could all be fooked...
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Post by grumpygit on Aug 2, 2016 11:53:20 GMT
Never trust an orange bald bloke!
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Post by MJB on Aug 2, 2016 11:54:35 GMT
If he does he'll make George W Bush seem like Ghandi.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Aug 2, 2016 12:07:03 GMT
The DNC did a fine job of screwing Bernie Sanders out of a fair fight. The US automated voting machines aren't the most reliable if you believe some reports about what went on in Florida. But... It seems pretty baseless and one of those Trump moments that will continue to happen. At least he puts himself out there where Clinton doesn't.
Trump and Clinton are about as awful candidates that anyone could wish to vote for. I thought UK politics struggled for good leaders, but we have them aplenty compared to the US.
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Post by saddletramp on Aug 2, 2016 12:18:21 GMT
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Post by Pete Burrett on Aug 2, 2016 12:25:21 GMT
The DNC did a fine job of screwing Bernie Sanders out of a fair fight. The US automated voting machines aren't the most reliable if you believe some reports about what went on in Florida. But... It seems pretty baseless and one of those Trump moments that will continue to happen. At least he puts himself out there where Clinton doesn't. Trump and Clinton are about as awful candidates that anyone could wish to vote for. I thought UK politics struggled for good leaders, but we have them aplenty compared to the US. Yes, Clinton has many flaws too, and her previous political activity leaves a lot to be desired. I certainly wasn't trying to make this a left v right issue because, as Saddletramp says, notions of 'left' or 'right' are rather strange in the USA, with the possible exception of Sanders. The point is, despite her flaws, during this campaign Clinton seems to have avoided saying anything too outrageous, unlike Trump who's making a career of it!
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Post by Paul Cannell on Aug 2, 2016 12:26:16 GMT
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Post by Gary Baldi on Aug 2, 2016 12:41:18 GMT
The DNC did a fine job of screwing Bernie Sanders out of a fair fight. The US automated voting machines aren't the most reliable if you believe some reports about what went on in Florida. But... It seems pretty baseless and one of those Trump moments that will continue to happen. At least he puts himself out there where Clinton doesn't. Trump and Clinton are about as awful candidates that anyone could wish to vote for. I thought UK politics struggled for good leaders, but we have them aplenty compared to the US. Yes, Clinton has many flaws too, and her previous political activity leaves a lot to be desired. I certainly wasn't trying to make this a left v right issue because, as Saddletramp says, notions of 'left' or 'right' are rather strange in the USA, with the possible exception of Sanders. The point is, despite her flaws, during this campaign Clinton seems to have avoided saying anything too outrageous, unlike Trump who's making a career of it! The right and left dynamics in the US election are interesting. The DNC has gone into RNC territory, and vice versa based on their candidates views and voting demographics. I'm increasingly getting more Trump vs Clinton stuff on Facebook as the whole thing heats up. One thing I saw 'liked' was that Clinton hasn't done a press conference in over 200 days and continues to avoid speaking in an open format with the press. In some respects, it's a wise thing for her to do but comes across as rather staid. Trump cannot shut up and is at some points doing a fine job of trolling people who would be wise to just ignore him I have no particular favourite candidate - none of the above should be an option. The "leader of the free world" will not be a President known for much other than beating the other idiot.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Aug 2, 2016 12:54:16 GMT
I have no particular favourite candidate - none of the above should be an option. I am no great lover of the Clintons, but surely one has to 'favour' Hilary Clinton? Apart from anything else she is much less likely to provoke more race unrest inside the US, and much less likely to provoke a global apocalypse outside it!
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Post by Gary Baldi on Aug 2, 2016 13:03:36 GMT
I have no particular favourite candidate - none of the above should be an option. I am no great lover of the Clintons, but surely one has to 'favour' Hilary Clinton? Apart from anything else she is much less likely to provoke more race unrest inside the US, and much less likely to provoke a global apocalypse outside it! Considering race unrest has escalated (and become ever more polarising) under Obama's watch, and he's unfortunately not quite been able to take action other than orate when something has happened, I'm not sure Clinton will do anything more but be less eloquent. I'm certainly not advocating Trump will sort it out. Unfortunately both BLMs (Blue and Black) are so far apart, they need a neutral President to be told to grow up and get back to the real issues in an adult manner. Which neither will be if Clinton is a promised going to carry on Obama's legacy.
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Post by Marked Ox on Aug 2, 2016 14:27:15 GMT
If Trump wins at least there'll be a minor compensation in watching him try to make Mexico pay the estimated $50 billion for the 'border wall'.
He will undoubtedly change the geopolitical balance in the world as he has already threatened to close US Military bases and bring the forces back to the US from Europe and made noises about Asia as well.
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Post by m on Aug 2, 2016 15:26:23 GMT
Bah!
I thought this thread was going to be about a timepiece that farts.
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Post by grumpygit on Aug 2, 2016 16:49:19 GMT
If Trump wins at least there'll be a minor compensation in watching him try to make Mexico pay the estimated $50 billion for the 'border wall'. He will undoubtedly change the geopolitical balance in the world as he has already threatened to close US Military bases and bring the forces back to the US from Europe and made noises about Asia as well. They'll need to bring the troops back, to handle mas riots!!!
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Post by bashamwonderland on Aug 2, 2016 17:09:50 GMT
If the political classes listened and accurately represented the will and fears of the People instead of self-serving and pandering to the liberal agenda, we wouldn't have a presidential candidate who had to pretend to be a lunatic to get through to people.
I really hope Trump wins. Not because I agree with his theories or methods, but because the people need to show the global system that it doesn't work for us anymore.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Aug 2, 2016 17:21:50 GMT
If the political classes listened and accurately represented the will and fears of the People instead of self-serving and pandering to the liberal agenda, we wouldn't have a presidential candidate who had to pretend to be a lunatic to get through to people. I really hope Trump wins. Not because I agree with his theories or methods, but because the people need to show the global system that it doesn't work for us anymore. That's confused me, a bit. Surely the Republican party are part of the 'political classes' in the US? Bafflingly, they have backed Trump to be their candidate. He seems to be deliberately appealing to red neck America, playing on their fears of Muslims, immigrants etc. He certainly understands that these fears exist and exactly how to harness them for his own ends. It can't be claimed that Trump is somehow external to mainstream politics. He's part of it and is prospering. Bearing this in mind I desperately hope he's defeated. He's a dangerous extremist, and a Trump win will not give the 'global system' a bloody nose. He's well and truly part of that system. (As I wrote this I kept hearing the word 'neo-liberalism' in my head ....)
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Post by tonyw on Aug 2, 2016 17:28:48 GMT
I've read quite a bit from true right wing conservative Republicans - for some reason, I often like to read opinion that is opposite to my own world view - and for the most part, they despise Trump. They look at him as somewhere between a big government liberal and a fascist dictator, and most won't vote for him. Some will go libertarian, some will write in Ted Cruz, some won't vote at all other than down ticket, and some will go as far as voting for Hilary with a view on 2020 (when, if Clinton is as bad as most fear, after 12 years a Republican winner will be highly likely).
I'm not entirely sure they're wrong. Trump's coming from all over the map. He's left wing on trade; probably fairly liberal on social issues; broadly supports single payer healthcare (or at least has done in the past); supports a predominantly isolationist foreign policy; and is far far right wing on immigration.
Ultimately, I suspect his overall complete and utter ignorance on the majority of political issues, foreign and domestic, will be what finally sinks his candidacy - especially if Hilary can get to him one-on-one in the debates - and we'll end up with a Clinton landslide. But if he succeeds in turning the debates into an absolute circus, as he did the RNC debates, and Hilary missteps then you never know.
Either way, it's compelling, car crash-type viewing.
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Post by tonyw on Aug 2, 2016 17:41:32 GMT
That's confused me, a bit. Surely the Republican party are part of the 'political classes' in the US? Bafflingly, they have backed Trump to be their candidate. He seems to be deliberately appealing to red neck America, playing on their fears of Muslims, immigrants etc. He certainly understands that these fears exist and exactly how to harness them for his own ends. It can't be claimed that Trump is somehow external to mainstream politics. He's part of it and is prospering. Bearing this in mind I desperately hope he's defeated. He's a dangerous extremist, and a Trump win will not give the 'global system' a bloody nose. He's well and truly part of that system. (As I wrote this I kept hearing the word 'neo-liberalism' in my head ....) So a large swathe of the Republican party have not. Off the top of my head, I know that Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Jeb Bush (& his brother & Dad), Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham and Ben Sasse.....a mixed bag of senators & governors.....have refused to endorse the orange one. A much larger contingent of Republicans is endorsing Trump whilst holding their nose. The reason the Republican party are backing him is because they're desperate to get back into power - now more than ever, given how many supreme court seats are likely to come up over the next four years. They'll get behind absolutely anyone who's not Hilary. And Trump is who their angry primary voters have rallied behind. While you can't say that Trump is in any way external to the ruling classes in America, I think it actually probably is fair to say that he's external to mainstream politics. He's never held any form of political office - which shows; if he had, he might have more of a clue how the government actually operates. And so many people in America seem to be so angry with the status quo that they're not going to draw the distinction between the two.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Aug 2, 2016 17:51:43 GMT
That's confused me, a bit. Surely the Republican party are part of the 'political classes' in the US? Bafflingly, they have backed Trump to be their candidate. He seems to be deliberately appealing to red neck America, playing on their fears of Muslims, immigrants etc. He certainly understands that these fears exist and exactly how to harness them for his own ends. It can't be claimed that Trump is somehow external to mainstream politics. He's part of it and is prospering. Bearing this in mind I desperately hope he's defeated. He's a dangerous extremist, and a Trump win will not give the 'global system' a bloody nose. He's well and truly part of that system. (As I wrote this I kept hearing the word 'neo-liberalism' in my head ....) So a large swathe of the Republican party have not. Off the top of my head, I know that Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Jeb Bush (& his brother & Dad), Mitt Romney, Lindsey Graham and Ben Sasse.....a mixed bag of senators & governors.....have refused to endorse the orange one. A much larger contingent of Republicans is endorsing Trump whilst holding their nose. The reason the Republican party are backing him is because they're desperate to get back into power - now more than ever, given how many supreme court seats are likely to come up over the next four years. They'll get behind absolutely anyone who's not Hilary. And Trump is who their angry primary voters have rallied behind. While you can't say that Trump is in any way external to the ruling classes in America, I think it actually probably is fair to say that he's external to mainstream politics. He's never held any form of political office - which shows; if he had, he might have more of a clue how the government actually operates. And so many people in America seem to be so angry with the status quo that they're not going to draw the distinction between the two. This might be a controversial view, but I believe a significant number of Republican voters are more than angry with the status quo. They are angry that not only is there a pinko (in their opinion) Democrat in the White House, but that that man is black, of an African born father and has a suspiciously Muslim name. Never underestimate the capacity for the under-educated to embrace hatred. Trump's campaign makes the xenophoblic wailings we heard during the Brexit referendum seem mild in comparison.
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Post by bashamwonderland on Aug 2, 2016 17:53:59 GMT
If the political classes listened and accurately represented the will and fears of the People instead of self-serving and pandering to the liberal agenda, we wouldn't have a presidential candidate who had to pretend to be a lunatic to get through to people. I really hope Trump wins. Not because I agree with his theories or methods, but because the people need to show the global system that it doesn't work for us anymore. That's confused me, a bit. Surely the Republican party are part of the 'political classes' in the US? Bafflingly, they have backed Trump to be their candidate. He seems to be deliberately appealing to red neck America, playing on their fears of Muslims, immigrants etc. He certainly understands that these fears exist and exactly how to harness them for his own ends. It can't be claimed that Trump is somehow external to mainstream politics. He's part of it and is prospering. Bearing this in mind I desperately hope he's defeated. He's a dangerous extremist, and a Trump win will not give the 'global system' a bloody nose. He's well and truly part of that system. (As I wrote this I kept hearing the word 'neo-liberalism' in my head ....) Yes but Trump has absolutely no real Republican support. www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36955519 - Nobody in the establishment will back him, including no former President. His own party don't want him, it just goes to show the discord in America. Most republicans would likely rather Hillary won to prevent the damage Trump would do to their party. Trump is external to mainstream politics. He has no political history despite supporting the democrats many years ago. He is, obviously, an 'elite' figure and has no legitimate prospect of being a successful President. I'll reiterate that he stands for something very poisonous and damaging, but that might be just what America needs as lubrication to change itself into a working nation. No national healthcare, no prospect of gun control, and racial tensions the likes of which the UK has been free of for 30 or 40 years now. America needs a kick up the arse, one way or another and the backlash against Trump as Pres may be just what is needed.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Aug 2, 2016 17:57:35 GMT
That's confused me, a bit. Surely the Republican party are part of the 'political classes' in the US? Bafflingly, they have backed Trump to be their candidate. He seems to be deliberately appealing to red neck America, playing on their fears of Muslims, immigrants etc. He certainly understands that these fears exist and exactly how to harness them for his own ends. It can't be claimed that Trump is somehow external to mainstream politics. He's part of it and is prospering. Bearing this in mind I desperately hope he's defeated. He's a dangerous extremist, and a Trump win will not give the 'global system' a bloody nose. He's well and truly part of that system. (As I wrote this I kept hearing the word 'neo-liberalism' in my head ....) Yes but Trump has absolutely no real Republican support. www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36955519 - Nobody in the establishment will back him, including no former President. His own party don't want him, it just goes to show the discord in America. Most republicans would likely rather Hillary won to prevent the damage Trump would do to their party. Trump is external to mainstream politics. He has no political history despite supporting the democrats many years ago. He is, obviously, an 'elite' figure and has no legitimate prospect of being a successful President. I'll reiterate that he stands for something very poisonous and damaging, but that might be just what America needs as lubrication to change itself into a working nation. No national healthcare, no prospect of gun control, and racial tensions the likes of which the UK has been free of for 30 or 40 years now. America needs a kick up the arse, one way or another and the backlash against Trump as Pres may be just what is needed. Yep, a good analysis. Bloody hell though, it's a dangerous game to elect a potential renegade president to give the country a kick up the arse! He could do a lot of damage in five years, even if future lessons are learned.
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Post by bashamwonderland on Aug 2, 2016 18:02:39 GMT
Yes but Trump has absolutely no real Republican support. www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36955519 - Nobody in the establishment will back him, including no former President. His own party don't want him, it just goes to show the discord in America. Most republicans would likely rather Hillary won to prevent the damage Trump would do to their party. Trump is external to mainstream politics. He has no political history despite supporting the democrats many years ago. He is, obviously, an 'elite' figure and has no legitimate prospect of being a successful President. I'll reiterate that he stands for something very poisonous and damaging, but that might be just what America needs as lubrication to change itself into a working nation. No national healthcare, no prospect of gun control, and racial tensions the likes of which the UK has been free of for 30 or 40 years now. America needs a kick up the arse, one way or another and the backlash against Trump as Pres may be just what is needed. Yep, a good analysis. Bloody hell though, it's a dangerous game to elect a potential renegade president to give the country a kick up the arse! He could do a lot of damage in five years, even if future lessons are learned. Yeah you're right, it would be a bloody, long term and perhaps brutal means to a potentially better end! But you can rest assured that with Hillary, nothing will change. 4/8 more years of status quo, which is very obviously not working in America. Not usually interested in US politics but I've made the exception this time around. I look forward to reading the thread until November.
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Post by tonyw on Aug 2, 2016 18:08:20 GMT
This might be a controversial view, but I believe a significant number of Republican voters are more than angry with the status quo. They are angry that not only is there a pinko (in their opinion) Democrat in the White House, but that that man is black, of an African born father and has a suspiciously Muslim name. Never underestimate the capacity for the under-educated to embrace hatred. Trump's campaign makes the xenophoblic wailings we heard during the Brexit referendum seem mild in comparison. I won't argue at all that a significant chunk of voters are supporting Trump because of xenophobia, racism and hatred. I would just argue with blanket labeling them as Republicans. For all that I would be a Democrat by inclination, I think it's unfair to conflate Republicanism and Trumpism. The broad platform of republicanism is generally socially conservative and advocates small government, but I don't think it's by its nature racist and xenophobic. It's the party of Lincoln after all. Trump has just wrestled control of it because a) there are a lot of xenophobic, angry racists in America and b) the US presidential nomination process is utterly absurd. I suspect there a lot of formerly Democrat voters who will tick the Trump box in November for precisely the reasons you outline. And a vast number of people will do so who haven't traditionally voted for anyone.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Aug 2, 2016 18:14:55 GMT
This might be a controversial view, but I believe a significant number of Republican voters are more than angry with the status quo. They are angry that not only is there a pinko (in their opinion) Democrat in the White House, but that that man is black, of an African born father and has a suspiciously Muslim name. Never underestimate the capacity for the under-educated to embrace hatred. Trump's campaign makes the xenophoblic wailings we heard during the Brexit referendum seem mild in comparison. I won't argue at all that a significant chunk of voters are supporting Trump because of xenophobia, racism and hatred. I would just argue with blanket labeling them as Republicans. For all that I would be a Democrat by inclination, I think it's unfair to conflate Republicanism and Trumpism. The broad platform of republicanism is generally socially conservative and advocates small government, but I don't think it's by its nature racist and xenophobic. It's the party of Lincoln after all. Trump has just wrestled control of it because a) there are a lot of xenophobic, angry racists in America and b) the US presidential nomination process is utterly absurd. I suspect there a lot of formerly Democrat voters who will tick the Trump box in November for precisely the reasons you outline. And a vast number of people will do so who haven't traditionally voted for anyone. And the Brexit parallels continue. Former Labour voters in northern UK ex-industrial towns voting for something favoured by UKIP, a party with views diametrically opposed to those of Labour, just to give the 'establishment' a bloody nose. Many leavers may not have appreciated the eventual result of their vote, and neither will many of Trump's voters. It's a protest vote of extraordinary proportions. PS I appreciate not all (maybe most) of Trump's voters are not typical Republicans, or even Republicans at all.
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Post by dannyc on Aug 2, 2016 18:59:08 GMT
talking of ukip steven woolfe seems like best candidate to take over plus the left cant use the racist excuses with him considering his background would be funny seeing them trying to put him down .
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Post by Pete Burrett on Aug 2, 2016 19:08:31 GMT
talking of ukip steven woolfe seems like best candidate to take over plus the left cant use the racist excuses with him considering his background would be funny seeing them trying to put him down . He might be kicked out though Danny, for 'forgetting' he had a drink-drive conviction. By the way, the fact that Woolfe has some black blood doesn't make UKIP's aims any less objectionable. If a person with non-white blood wants to be associated with UKIP, more fool them. It will actually be very easy to criticise Woolfe for wanting to be associated with UKIP.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Aug 2, 2016 21:00:14 GMT
If Trump could organise a set of thoughts and keep to a script (and has not so far), he'd be more credible to a wider group of people. Otherwise, it's all a bit mad and requires people to go all in on the Donald. It's not a surprise Republican PR people are abandoning ship.
The thing with Trump is he has really controlled the tone of any of the debates that have happened. I don't know if Clinton is strong enough personality wise to flip the debate without the ensuing Trump chaos. His lack of detail should get exposed, but I don't think Clinton has much of that either. I feel sorry for any American having to vote for either of them. It's like being asked to choose your own execution method.
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Post by dannyc on Aug 2, 2016 23:11:22 GMT
talking of ukip steven woolfe seems like best candidate to take over plus the left cant use the racist excuses with him considering his background would be funny seeing them trying to put him down . He might be kicked out though Danny, for 'forgetting' he had a drink-drive conviction. By the way, the fact that Woolfe has some black blood doesn't make UKIP's aims any less objectionable. If a person with non-white blood wants to be associated with UKIP, more fool them. It will actually be very easy to criticise Woolfe for wanting to be associated with UKIP. yes because only white people can be racist in your eyes cant they mr leftie .
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Post by moroccanyellow on Aug 2, 2016 23:25:12 GMT
talking of ukip steven woolfe seems like best candidate to take over plus the left cant use the racist excuses with him considering his background would be funny seeing them trying to put him down . Do you have an alert set up for every time UKIP is mentioned on the forum?
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Post by whingit on Aug 3, 2016 2:02:04 GMT
If the political classes listened and accurately represented the will and fears of the People instead of self-serving and pandering to the liberal agenda, we wouldn't have a presidential candidate who had to pretend to be a lunatic to get through to people. I really hope Trump wins. Not because I agree with his theories or methods, but because the people need to show the global system that it doesn't work for us anymore. Lol.
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