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Post by sm86 on Apr 27, 2016 19:26:01 GMT
The early sell-out has given the club a nine-day window to conduct a great experiment. They know there is the demand there. And, for once, they have the time in which to act. My public denunciations of myself last night were intended to anticipate the ritual argument we have had on this forum and elsewhere whenever the subject comes up. But now is the time to break out of this ritual. If there ever was a game when the soul-less concrete wind tunnel needs to change, this is it. Even if we put up just a little stand - like the temporary thing we sat in at Newport- it would change the feel of the whole stadium, creating a whole new dimension, a fourth dimension, of positivity and excitement. We could put Wycombe's 300 in half of it so they get rained on. We could put desperate Oxford fans who don't mind getting wet in the rest. We could sell the remaining 1,500 tickets in the North Stand to our own supporters. And it would be really, really, lovely. I'm not sure nine days is enough time? There are planning issues to deal with and don't forget we don't own the stadium and dealing with Firoka on a day to day basis is not easy. There are H&S issues, and then you've got to source and install it, and then sell the tickets for a stand that currently doesn't exist. I'm not trying to be negative here, but nine days is no time at all for something like this given our current circumstances of not owning the stadium. I think we need to give the club a break on this one. Colin I have to disagree, while its 9 days from today. It's been looking like it would go down to the Wycombe game for weeks. Personally my feeling were after the Easter weekend. Which would of given the club 5 weeks. In which they could of started to make some enquires re Kassam, Planning and cost. then as we have got closer put the wheels in motion. Especially on the back of taking 33,000+ to Wembley. if nothing else it shows why it's so important to own the stadium
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 27, 2016 19:33:09 GMT
I'm not sure nine days is enough time? There are planning issues to deal with and don't forget we don't own the stadium and dealing with Firoka on a day to day basis is not easy. There are H&S issues, and then you've got to source and install it, and then sell the tickets for a stand that currently doesn't exist. I'm not trying to be negative here, but nine days is no time at all for something like this given our current circumstances of not owning the stadium. I think we need to give the club a break on this one. Colin I have to disagree, while its 9 days from today. It's been looking like it would go down to the Wycombe game for weeks. Personally my feeling were after the Easter weekend. Which would of given the club 5 weeks. In which they could of started to make some enquires re Kassam, Planning and cost. then as we have got closer put the wheels in motion. Especially on the back of taking 33,000+ to Wembley. if nothing else it shows why it's so important to own the stadium Again!!! It was in discussion weeks before Wembley. If nothing else it shows people just don't listen m.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14370500.Fourth_stand_plans_revived_for_Kassam_Stadium_as_Oxford_United_near_promotion/
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Post by politicalox on Apr 27, 2016 19:36:22 GMT
Hmmm. According to the World Wide Web, the next meeting of OCC's Eastern Area planning committee is May 11.
However, for an issue of this importance to the local community, a special meeting could be convened.
Presumably FK has or had planning permission for a stand structure at the fence end anyhow and it would be odd if he had not renewed it.
We know club has already discussed it with FK during the season.
So there shouldn't really be a planning obstacle for this.
What is lacking is political will and possibly good will from FK because where there's a will, there's a way.
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 27, 2016 19:46:57 GMT
People moan that the losses for last year were very high. Then in the next breath are asking about subsidised travel to Carlisle and a new temporary stand. It's not hard, if it costs more than U earn from having it then it's a no go. Maybe if they were convinced we would have another sell out a week or two later as a playoff semi then it becomes viable. People assume because it hasn't been done it hasn't been looked at, it has
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Post by Colin B on Apr 27, 2016 20:02:09 GMT
How about this for a "hypothetical" scenario.
Club pro actively looks at a temporary fourth stand, several weeks in advance.
It's costed and the planning element (and there is one) are tackled.
Stadco are consulted regarding the club's intentions.
Stadco then put financial (and other) obstacles in the club's way.
Club then forced to abandon the idea.
All hypothetical, of course............
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Post by Mark on Apr 27, 2016 20:25:09 GMT
Quite. Thomas looked at a stand for a S***don game and worked out it wasn't financially worthwhile.
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Post by whingit on Apr 27, 2016 20:35:14 GMT
And if KT, of all people, says it's not financially viable, then it's not.
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Post by pottersrightboot on Apr 27, 2016 21:07:37 GMT
If I hear our ground described as a 'soulless wind tunnel' one more time I believe I might spontaneously combust.
It's on pitch performances that determine ground armosphere - not architecture. There's been plenty of 'soul' at our ground this season.
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Post by Colin B on Apr 27, 2016 21:24:37 GMT
If I hear our ground described as a 'soulless wind tunnel' one more time I believe I might spontaneously combust. It's on pitch performances that determine ground armosphere - not architecture. There's been plenty of 'soul' at our ground this season. Got to disagree with you a bit on this one old chap. Although the most important thing is what happens on the pitch, the architecture, acoustics, and ambiance of a stadium can make a huge difference to the overall match day experience. Just winning football matches alone will not make the kassam stadium feel like home, it needs far more than that.
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Post by pottersrightboot on Apr 27, 2016 21:59:40 GMT
Compared to most grounds in the lower leagues, ours is more than adequate.
A fourth stand would be great but the economics don't yet stack up.
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Post by deadmanwalking on Apr 28, 2016 6:29:05 GMT
It's not as simple as just erecting some seating and that's it.
You also have to factor in providing toilets, concessions, turnstiles, emergency protocols, lighting, connecting the PA system to the stand (so standard electrical supply and emergency power and a water supply to the concessions and the toilets). The fence would have to be removed or the stand built above the fence. This all then needs to be enclosed. All this adds to the cost. After this a safety certificate has to be issued and you know how slow Oxford City Council can be. You can also bet your last pound that the stadium company would want a major financial contribution from the club.
Sadly, for a one-off or even two-off game, the costs would far outweigh the benefits to the club.
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Post by blox21 on Apr 28, 2016 6:51:11 GMT
It's not as simple as just erecting some seating and that's it. You also have to factor in providing toilets, concessions, turnstiles, emergency protocols, lighting, connecting the PA system to the stand (so standard electrical supply and emergency power and a water supply to the concessions and the toilets). The fence would have to be removed or the stand built above the fence. This all then needs to be enclosed. All this adds to the cost. After this a safety certificate has to be issued and you know how slow Oxford City Council can be. You can also bet your last pound that the stadium company would want a major financial contribution from the club. Sadly, for a one-off or even two-off game, the costs would far outweigh the benefits to the club. Spoil sport !!
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Post by politicalox on Apr 28, 2016 7:47:07 GMT
It's not as simple as just erecting some seating and that's it. You also have to factor in providing toilets, concessions, turnstiles, emergency protocols, lighting, connecting the PA system to the stand (so standard electrical supply and emergency power and a water supply to the concessions and the toilets). The fence would have to be removed or the stand built above the fence. This all then needs to be enclosed. All this adds to the cost. After this a safety certificate has to be issued and you know how slow Oxford City Council can be. You can also bet your last pound that the stadium company would want a major financial contribution from the club. Sadly, for a one-off or even two-off game, the costs would far outweigh the benefits to the club. These are all good arguments. But lots of us will have worked for organisations dominated by people who describe, at great length, why things should never change. I still think that if there was a strong will to do this, it could be sorted quite quickly. Nor do I think we should think of this simply as the price of erecting some seats. It would be hugely symbolic and would generate vast amounts of publicity/excitement. Surely a local business - possibly even a scaffolder or building firm - would be interested in sponsorship and naming rights for the stand which would offset the costs. Surely local councillors would love connecting with their constituents and showing they can get things done - and fast? And surely a club wanting to get promotion after another season where we have lost too many games at home would look again at an idea which would give us the positivity and raucus atmosphere that might just get us over the line? I'm not saying we will win promotion with it and will fail without it. But if it made even the slightest difference, we should take account of the financial advantages of playing in League One.
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 28, 2016 7:58:14 GMT
While adding to the financial disadvantages of playing in l2
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Post by Colin B on Apr 28, 2016 9:44:31 GMT
It's not as simple as just erecting some seating and that's it. You also have to factor in providing toilets, concessions, turnstiles, emergency protocols, lighting, connecting the PA system to the stand (so standard electrical supply and emergency power and a water supply to the concessions and the toilets). The fence would have to be removed or the stand built above the fence. This all then needs to be enclosed. All this adds to the cost. After this a safety certificate has to be issued and you know how slow Oxford City Council can be. You can also bet your last pound that the stadium company would want a major financial contribution from the club. Sadly, for a one-off or even two-off game, the costs would far outweigh the benefits to the club. These are all good arguments. But lots of us will have worked for organisations dominated by people who describe, at great length, why things should never change. I still think that if there was a strong will to do this, it could be sorted quite quickly. Nor do I think we should think of this simply as the price of erecting some seats. It would be hugely symbolic and would generate vast amounts of publicity/excitement. Surely a local business - possibly even a scaffolder or building firm - would be interested in sponsorship and naming rights for the stand which would offset the costs. Surely local councillors would love connecting with their constituents and showing they can get things done - and fast? And surely a club wanting to get promotion after another season where we have lost too many games at home would look again at an idea which would give us the positivity and raucus atmosphere that might just get us over the line? I'm not saying we will win promotion with it and will fail without it. But if it made even the slightest difference, we should take account of the financial advantages of playing in League One. You are overlooking the fact that we don't own the stadium. We can't just do as we please, no matter how strong the will to do it is (and there was a will to do this by the club). The stadium company have the final say in this, and anyone who has dealt with them will know how difficult that makes things. I would love to have seen this happen, but the facts are that until we either own, or are in control of, the stadium we will have to deal with the stadium company and will not be able to make the most of these situations. Another good reason why that situation needs changing.
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Post by politicalox on Apr 28, 2016 10:00:47 GMT
I agree about the stadium - but we're not really disagreeing about points of principle.
Where we differ is over this question: should the club make one more effort to get agreement from FK, the council, sponsors etc?
In my view, it should.
Your view, unless I am mistaken, is that it's not worth it because they have tried before.
I have no inside knowledge and, for all I know, Herculean efforts are already underway.
We have nine days of hype before this game is played - nine days in which we could might sell another four thousand tickets.
But if nothing is happening, I would be disappointed.
All the energy, enthusiasm and sense of urgency needs to go somewhere - to waste it would be a missed opportunity.
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 28, 2016 10:07:48 GMT
I agree about the stadium - but we're not really disagreeing about points of principle. Where we differ is over this question: should the club make one more effort to get agreement from FK, the council, sponsors etc? In my view, it should. Your view, unless I am mistaken, is that it's not worth it because they have tried before. I have no inside knowledge and, for all I know, Herculean efforts are already underway. We have nine days of hype before this game is played - nine days in which we could might sell another four thousand tickets. But if nothing is happening, I would be disappointed. All the energy, enthusiasm and sense of urgency needs to go somewhere - to waste it would be a missed opportunity. Something was happening. It's been happening since before Wembley. And the conclusion of all those efforts is its not going to happen. Let it go, lets worry about supporting the team with the fans we do have in the stadium
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Post by oufcgav on Apr 28, 2016 10:08:02 GMT
It's not as simple as just erecting some seating and that's it. You also have to factor in providing toilets, concessions, turnstiles, emergency protocols, lighting, connecting the PA system to the stand (so standard electrical supply and emergency power and a water supply to the concessions and the toilets). The fence would have to be removed or the stand built above the fence. This all then needs to be enclosed. All this adds to the cost. After this a safety certificate has to be issued and you know how slow Oxford City Council can be. You can also bet your last pound that the stadium company would want a major financial contribution from the club. Sadly, for a one-off or even two-off game, the costs would far outweigh the benefits to the club. Because you are increasing the capacity you would also need to re-submit and get approved a travel plan (which I believe is County not City council to add to the authorities involved), plus changes to the emergency plan (involves all the emergency services). It has been looked into pretty seriously before and discounted.
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Post by bazzer9461 on Apr 28, 2016 10:20:04 GMT
This idea all well and good but with how DE has run this club in an very efficient manner, I am sure DE has thought long and hard a few games ago as it may have proved a sound financial prospect more so than 1 or 2 games. We wouldn't have sold another 4,000 so that may have been the key factor in deciding not to.
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Post by scotchegg on Apr 28, 2016 10:42:47 GMT
I'm sure it was a jokey comment before but could be get a dozen open top buses parked all the way along the fence? I know you wouldn't get many on each but they could maybe offer a few hundred tickets as special upgrades for those already bought with the understanding that the original tickets can go to those on the waiting list.
Each bus could be sponsored with the possibility of a bar on board.
All aboard the positive bus!!!!
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Post by Long John Silver on Apr 28, 2016 10:47:25 GMT
Compared to most grounds in the lower leagues, ours is more than adequate. A fourth stand would be great but the economics don't yet stack up. It's adequate for the number of supporters attending, but not atmosphere wise... For reasons pointed out regularly.
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Post by 54-46 on Apr 28, 2016 10:53:36 GMT
I'm sure it was a jokey comment before but could be get a dozen open top buses parked all the way along the fence? I know you wouldn't get many on each but they could maybe offer a few hundred tickets as special upgrades for those already bought with the understanding that the original tickets can go to those on the waiting list. Each bus could be sponsored with the possibility of a bar on board. All aboard the positive bus!!!! Love that idea!
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Post by Colin B on Apr 28, 2016 11:54:49 GMT
I agree about the stadium - but we're not really disagreeing about points of principle. Where we differ is over this question: should the club make one more effort to get agreement from FK, the council, sponsors etc? In my view, it should. Your view, unless I am mistaken, is that it's not worth it because they have tried before. I have no inside knowledge and, for all I know, Herculean efforts are already underway. We have nine days of hype before this game is played - nine days in which we could might sell another four thousand tickets. But if nothing is happening, I would be disappointed. All the energy, enthusiasm and sense of urgency needs to go somewhere - to waste it would be a missed opportunity. To say "it's not worth it, because they have tried before" is not the wording I would use, as it implies an element of antipathy around the issue. And that is certainly not the case. The inescapable fact, whether we like it or not, is that by not owning the stadium, we are at the mercy of the goodwill and co-operation of kassam/stadco and, again whether we like it or not, they can make things easy, difficult, or very difficult, in any and all of the club's dealings with them. Erecting a temporary stand is not a straightforward thing to do. It involves many third parties other than the club. There has to be complete synergy and goodwill between all parties to make it happen. If all parties, bar one, have that will, but the one that doesn't is the key decision maker, it is not going to happen, particularly given the timescales now involved. Unfortunately just wanting something to happen more than the other party does, will not ensure that it will happen, if that other party has what amounts to a power of veto. Also a temporary stand for 4,000 people would be huge and was never on the table. We have to be realistic, and asking for something that has been looked at in depth already, over a period of time, to be turned around in such a short time scale is like asking somebody to empty an Olympic swimming pool overnight, but giving them a thimble to do it with. It's a nice idea, but it's not going to happen. I'm really not sure the club could have done any more.
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Post by politicalox on Apr 28, 2016 12:13:17 GMT
If you are writing with knowledge, fair enough. But do you know, as a matter of fact, that FK has vetoed this idea or is that just speculation?
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Post by politicalox on Apr 28, 2016 12:14:13 GMT
I'm sure it was a jokey comment before but could be get a dozen open top buses parked all the way along the fence? I know you wouldn't get many on each but they could maybe offer a few hundred tickets as special upgrades for those already bought with the understanding that the original tickets can go to those on the waiting list. Each bus could be sponsored with the possibility of a bar on board. All aboard the positive bus!!!! Love that idea! You wait all decade for a fourth stand and then ten buses come at once.
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Post by whingit on Apr 28, 2016 12:25:26 GMT
The stand isn't going to happen, but what about streaming the match to screens in the hotel and Bowlplex, maybe even a pub or two in the city centre. Surely the club could find a way of making a bit of money out of it and if not they could sell tickets to watch it on a screen in the quad and keep the bar open.
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Post by scoob on Apr 28, 2016 13:12:11 GMT
If you are writing with knowledge, fair enough. But do you know, as a matter of fact, that FK has vetoed this idea or is that just speculation? Hmmmm how many facts have you used in this thread? The simple fact is that it is not a simple/easy practice and involves a significant amount of risk and organising. It is not a fact that building a temporary stand will ensure promotion to league one and is very unlikely to make any difference. If this was easy and represented zero risk or no cost then it would have been done. I am sure every fan would love to see a crowd at the fence end but most of us know that the investment in time/money and effort has to produce a return. The new owner/management have carried out many improvements this season and I am sure will have considered this but discounted it as not viable. I would love to have a heated seat in the winter and it would be fairly easy for the club to provide it but I know it will never happen!
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 28, 2016 13:16:45 GMT
If you are writing with knowledge, fair enough. But do you know, as a matter of fact, that FK has vetoed this idea or is that just speculation? Hmmmm how many facts have you used in this thread? The simple fact is that it is not a simple/easy practice and involves a significant amount of risk and organising. It is not a fact that building a temporary stand will ensure promotion to league one and is very unlikely to make any difference. If this was easy and represented zero risk or no cost then it would have been done. I am sure every fan would love to see a crowd at the fence end but most of us know that the investment in time/money and effort has to produce a return. The new owner/management have carried out many improvements this season and I am sure will have considered this but discounted it as not viable. I would love to have a heated seat in the winter and it would be fairly easy for the club to provide it but I know it will never happen! But have they thought about it ?
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Post by toucan on Apr 28, 2016 13:18:50 GMT
If you are writing with knowledge, fair enough. But do you know, as a matter of fact, that FK has vetoed this idea or is that just speculation? Hmmmm how many facts have you used in this thread? The simple fact is that it is not a simple/easy practice and involves a significant amount of risk and organising. It is not a fact that building a temporary stand will ensure promotion to league one and is very unlikely to make any difference. If this was easy and represented zero risk or no cost then it would have been done. I am sure every fan would love to see a crowd at the fence end but most of us know that the investment in time/money and effort has to produce a return. The new owner/management have carried out many improvements this season and I am sure will have considered this but discounted it as not viable. I would love to have a heated seat in the winter and it would be fairly easy for the club to provide it but I know it will never happen! Hey Scoob , I have it on good authority that the club are thinking of providing hot water bottles between November and March for fans to sit on .......
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Post by politicalox on Apr 28, 2016 13:32:07 GMT
I find there is a natural and organic way of heating my own seat and I suspect you have that within you too.
Stop asking the club to do everything and let them focus on the 4th stand!
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