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Post by flean on Jun 16, 2017 5:18:09 GMT
I'm not bitter at all! Just highlighting that the UK has had a rebate for a long time and as such has not paid (66% of net contribution according to wikkioedia) of what it should have. Of course the UK will be able to trade globally, that's never in question, but under what conditions? What sort of deal will the UK get with India for example? It seems India will demand free movement of people. Isn't that what you didn't want? You've come across as very bitter and negative since Brexit. It's almost sad to see someone have such little optimism for anything than the warm teet of the EU. That is a very nice tangent you went on re the rebate. Everyone in the EU gets one don't they in one form or another? We'd have more if not for Blair giving it away when he was being all hard with the EU. It just proves what an arse about face organisation it is that you give them money for them to give you some back again. The conditions for trade are dependent on the country. For example, a deal with Canada will be very different deal to India that will be a different deal with Australia. It's impossible to say now what those sorts of deals will be. We may opt for a reciprocal trade deal with India or something deeper. Who knows, but we have so many opportunities to buy stuff like wheat at the fraction of the price than we do today. It will be hard, but the world is there for the taking in trade for the first time in a long, long time. I think you're confusing bitterness with realism. The referendum has divided the country, and to say that those who don't agree with you are bitter just adds to that division. The election showed that there is little appetite for the complete back and white Brexit that you champion. The economy is already suffering, yet you still blindly believe this is the best way forward. To suggest there could or should be no divorce bill is simply provocation. If you truly want to provocate your neighbours and allies then so be it, but think of the rest of your country(wo)men. Not everyone got excited when that model of trembling Theresa was put up at Dover.
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Post by Kris Grebis on Jun 16, 2017 7:19:14 GMT
meanwhile in the real world the UK is now below Greece (in fact below everyone) -in GDP growth. Grew by the same amount in Q1 2016
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Post by flean on Jun 17, 2017 1:25:46 GMT
meanwhile in the real world the UK is now below Greece (in fact below everyone) -in GDP growth. Grew by the same amount in Q1 2016 Hooray for last year's growth. What's your point?
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Post by bashamwonderland on Jun 17, 2017 7:36:34 GMT
That chart just puts it all into perspective.
I've now changed my view of Brexit. This chart provides the cold, hard facts. We need to remodel our economy in order to perform as well as Romania, Latvia, Slovenia and Lithuania in quarterly growth. It will be hard, but we can do it. Yes, average salaries will be slashed to below a third of what they are now. Yes, the welfare state will have to disappear. Yes, our infrastructure will be replaced by horse and cart and Poorly maintained roads. Housing quality will be reduced significantly. Corruption will be rife.
Maybe, just maybe if we make those changes, we can grow as quickly as these shining beacons of economic growth.
#MakeUsRomania
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Post by flean on Jun 17, 2017 7:56:44 GMT
That chart just puts it all into perspective. I've now changed my view of Brexit. This chart provides the cold, hard facts. We need to remodel our economy in order to perform as well as Romania, Latvia, Slovenia and Lithuania in quarterly growth. It will be hard, but we can do it. Yes, average salaries will be slashed to below a third of what they are now. Yes, the welfare state will have to disappear. Yes, our infrastructure will be replaced by horse and cart and Poorly maintained roads. Housing quality will be reduced significantly. Corruption will be rife. Maybe, just maybe if we make those changes, we can grow as quickly as these shining beacons of economic growth. #MakeUsRomania Welfare state and housing quality ain't really a laughing matter in the UK at the moment, is it?
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Post by essexyellows on Jun 17, 2017 8:02:10 GMT
The rebate everyone rattles on about is only obtained on about a third of our contribution based on GNI...... GNI contribution is "fixed" for all member states at around 1%....we pay (roughly) 0.59%. All other contributions are on a par with all other members.
Flean.... welfare state & housing quality is generally very good...there are 400+ tower blocks in the UK many of which are being re-furbished to make things better for residents. If the firm managing Grenfell are found to be criminally negligent then that will get resolved. Same as anywhere really...
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Post by flean on Jun 17, 2017 9:13:00 GMT
The rebate everyone rattles on about is only obtained on about a third of our contribution based on GNI...... GNI contribution is "fixed" for all member states at around 1%....we pay (roughly) 0.59%. All other contributions are on a par with all other members. Flean.... welfare state & housing quality is generally very good...there are 400+ tower blocks in the UK many of which are being re-furbished to make things better for residents. If the firm managing Grenfell are found to be criminally negligent then that will get resolved. Same as anywhere really... Fair enough Essex. Just wondering why Bash is comparing to Romania. Know much about the housing quality there? (I've honestly no idea)
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Post by scotters on Jun 17, 2017 10:17:55 GMT
Just wondering why Bash is comparing to Romania. Know much about the housing quality there? (I've honestly no idea) Not really Brexit-related but interesting coincidence - public outcry and protests over corruption and public safety after after a fire which killed dozens led to the collapse of the government and resignation of the prime minister in 2015. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectiv_nightclub_fire
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Post by flean on Jun 17, 2017 10:40:52 GMT
Just wondering why Bash is comparing to Romania. Know much about the housing quality there? (I've honestly no idea) Not really Brexit-related but interesting coincidence - public outcry and protests over corruption and public safety after after a fire which killed dozens led to the collapse of the government and resignation of the prime minister in 2015. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colectiv_nightclub_fireOh shit yea, remember that. Could be history repeating itself, the way May is handling this.
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Post by ag on Jun 17, 2017 10:57:15 GMT
That chart just puts it all into perspective. I've now changed my view of Brexit. This chart provides the cold, hard facts. We need to remodel our economy in order to perform as well as Romania, Latvia, Slovenia and Lithuania in quarterly growth. It will be hard, but we can do it. Yes, average salaries will be slashed to below a third of what they are now. Yes, the welfare state will have to disappear. Yes, our infrastructure will be replaced by horse and cart and Poorly maintained roads. Housing quality will be reduced significantly. Corruption will be rife. Maybe, just maybe if we make those changes, we can grow as quickly as these shining beacons of economic growth. #MakeUsRomania Welfare state and housing quality ain't really a laughing matter in the UK at the moment, is it? Think you may need a little bit of help reading graphs Basham old brexitfruit. Yes The graph shows that Romania Latvia Slovenia and Lithuania-have the fastest growth and as you point out they also have lower salaries than we do. But it also shows that France Germany italy and the Netherlands are growing faster as well. And their the infrastructure and salaries are better than Britain's generally speaking.
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Post by Kris Grebis on Jun 17, 2017 11:26:11 GMT
Grew by the same amount in Q1 2016 Hooray for last year's growth. What's your point? Because I've seen a lot of people try and attribute this solely to brexit.
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Post by grenobleroad on Jun 17, 2017 14:19:37 GMT
Welfare state and housing quality ain't really a laughing matter in the UK at the moment, is it? Think you may need a little bit of help reading graphs Basham old brexitfruit. Yes The graph shows that Romania Latvia Slovenia and Lithuania-have the fastest growth and as you point out they also have lower salaries than we do. But it also shows that France Germany italy and the Netherlands are growing faster as well. And their the infrastructure and salaries are better than Britain's generally speaking. Do you think so? I would of assumed our salaries were higher here. Not looked at any stats but have never heard anything to suggest people are paid better in those countries.
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Post by ag on Jun 17, 2017 14:29:35 GMT
Think you may need a little bit of help reading graphs Basham old brexitfruit. Yes The graph shows that Romania Latvia Slovenia and Lithuania-have the fastest growth and as you point out they also have lower salaries than we do. But it also shows that France Germany italy and the Netherlands are growing faster as well. And their the infrastructure and salaries are better than Britain's generally speaking. Do you think so? I would of assumed our salaries were higher here. Not looked at any stats but have never heard anything to suggest people are paid better in those countries. It's all here=
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jun 17, 2017 14:54:43 GMT
Welfare state and housing quality ain't really a laughing matter in the UK at the moment, is it? Think you may need a little bit of help reading graphs Basham old brexitfruit. Yes The graph shows that Romania Latvia Slovenia and Lithuania-have the fastest growth and as you point out they also have lower salaries than we do. But it also shows that France Germany italy and the Netherlands are growing faster as well. And their the infrastructure and salaries are better than Britain's generally speaking. Some interesting data on wage 'growth' in the UK here.. Probably too many words for some. Austerity really has been a success.
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Post by bashamwonderland on Jun 18, 2017 11:44:15 GMT
That chart just puts it all into perspective. I've now changed my view of Brexit. This chart provides the cold, hard facts. We need to remodel our economy in order to perform as well as Romania, Latvia, Slovenia and Lithuania in quarterly growth. It will be hard, but we can do it. Yes, average salaries will be slashed to below a third of what they are now. Yes, the welfare state will have to disappear. Yes, our infrastructure will be replaced by horse and cart and Poorly maintained roads. Housing quality will be reduced significantly. Corruption will be rife. Maybe, just maybe if we make those changes, we can grow as quickly as these shining beacons of economic growth. #MakeUsRomania Welfare state and housing quality ain't really a laughing matter in the UK at the moment, is it? Who's laughing?
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Post by bashamwonderland on Jun 18, 2017 11:46:12 GMT
Welfare state and housing quality ain't really a laughing matter in the UK at the moment, is it? Think you may need a little bit of help reading graphs Basham old brexitfruit. Yes The graph shows that Romania Latvia Slovenia and Lithuania-have the fastest growth and as you point out they also have lower salaries than we do. But it also shows that France Germany italy and the Netherlands are growing faster as well. And their the infrastructure and salaries are better than Britain's generally speaking. The infrastructure and salaries are better in Italy? U sure?
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Post by ag on Jun 18, 2017 18:33:18 GMT
Think you may need a little bit of help reading graphs Basham old brexitfruit. Yes The graph shows that Romania Latvia Slovenia and Lithuania-have the fastest growth and as you point out they also have lower salaries than we do. But it also shows that France Germany italy and the Netherlands are growing faster as well. And their the infrastructure and salaries are better than Britain's generally speaking. The infrastructure and salaries are better in Italy? U sure? You're right about Italy. And I'm right about Germany France and the Netherlands.
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Post by helsinkiyellow on Jun 19, 2017 18:24:01 GMT
So what have we learnt after day 1 of the Brexit negotiations? Clearly David Davis likes to roll over and have his belly tickled. He wanted "the fight of the summer" over sequencing of Brexit talks yet caves in to the EU schedule after less than a day. They haven't got a f*cking clue!
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Post by flean on Jun 19, 2017 19:24:00 GMT
So what have we learnt after day 1 of the Brexit negotiations? Clearly David Davis likes to roll over and have his belly tickled. He wanted "the fight of the summer" over sequencing of Brexit talks yet caves in to the EU schedule after less than a day. They haven't got a f*cking clue! But Mr Davis claims it's in line with the govt's plan too. Gonna be a long 18 months for anyone wanting a hard Brexit...
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Post by flean on Jun 21, 2017 4:13:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 12:53:34 GMT
I think after Theresa Mays weak election campaign we should prepare for a new leader. Philip Hammond to me looks likely to be a successor and is already toning down Brexit talks to take a bad deal rather than no deal
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Post by essexyellows on Jun 21, 2017 19:00:31 GMT
Luxury apartments acquired for the Grenfell residents......... About 200 protesting on the "#dayofrage"...... scrapping with & insulting the very 999 services they profess to support..... Labour being a "government in waiting"........
TM "getting on with the job".....and the more that happens the more the people will sway to supporting her.
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Post by flean on Jun 21, 2017 19:44:52 GMT
Luxury apartments acquired for the Grenfell residents......... About 200 protesting on the "#dayofrage"...... scrapping with & insulting the very 999 services they profess to support..... Labour being a "government in waiting"........ TM "getting on with the job".....and the more that happens the more the people will sway to supporting her. May getting on with the job? Ho Ho ho
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Post by tonyw on Jun 23, 2017 13:56:34 GMT
So May's EU citizen 'offer' in the last 24 hours has done absolutely nothing to change my view that these negotiations are going to take years and years and years to complete.
The principles were reasonable, but detail was mostly lacking. And it's the detail that is going to be what goes back and forth across the negotiating table ad nauseam. Would it have hurt them to actually propose a cut off date? Almost certainly it would've caused an argument, but if both sides are going to dance around, not really asking for what they want for weeks on end because it's politically expedient, then an already long process is going to be prolonged even further.
Seeing a lot of 'one year on' articles today as well. Saw this particular paragraph in the Independent (yes, I know, not exactly impartial - but that's why I'm not reproducing the whole article on here!) that I thought summed up the mood pretty well....on Yellows Forum at least. And probably the country too.
The divisions exposed by that vote have not gone away. When the PM and others claim in soothing tones that the nation is getting back together and “moving on”, they deceive themselves. The result was 52:48, and the 52 per cent remain fearful that their victory will be lost, while the 48 per cent still mourn what they’ve forfeited. If anything, passions seem as raw as they were on that morning after.
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Post by Marked Ox on Jun 24, 2017 16:58:21 GMT
So May's EU citizen 'offer' in the last 24 hours has done absolutely nothing to change my view that these negotiations are going to take years and years and years to complete. The principles were reasonable, but detail was mostly lacking. And it's the detail that is going to be what goes back and forth across the negotiating table ad nauseam. Would it have hurt them to actually propose a cut off date? Almost certainly it would've caused an argument, but if both sides are going to dance around, not really asking for what they want for weeks on end because it's politically expedient, then an already long process is going to be prolonged even further. Seeing a lot of 'one year on' articles today as well. Saw this particular paragraph in the Independent (yes, I know, not exactly impartial - but that's why I'm not reproducing the whole article on here!) that I thought summed up the mood pretty well....on Yellows Forum at least. And probably the country too. The divisions exposed by that vote have not gone away. When the PM and others claim in soothing tones that the nation is getting back together and “moving on”, they deceive themselves. The result was 52:48, and the 52 per cent remain fearful that their victory will be lost, while the 48 per cent still mourn what they’ve forfeited. If anything, passions seem as raw as they were on that morning after.May's Govt has been vague on details for most policies/plans so it was to be expected with Brexit.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 21, 2017 5:45:47 GMT
Hang on didn't u say they were going to move the whole plant abroad flean 😉
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 6:42:42 GMT
It's good news for Oxford. I don't think Brexit will happen, I can see another vote coming prior to the election. Vince Cable will also lose his seat and claim a moral victory
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Post by ag on Jul 21, 2017 6:51:27 GMT
"Asked whether the electric Mini would be built in Britain, a BMW spokeswoman said: "A final decision has not been taken."
BMW has said it has several options about where to build the vehicle, including at a plant operated by VDL Nedcar in Born, Netherlands, where a plug-in hybrid version of the Mini is already being built, or a plant in Regensburg, Germany."
It goes on to say
"The electric Mini will use an electric Motor, components and a battery delivered from BMW's Dingolfing and Landshut plants in Bavaria, Germany.
BMW executives are seeking assurances from Britain that any import duties on electric motors and batteries sent from Bavaria to Oxford could be reclaimed in full for vehicles that are then sold in the EU, one of the sources said."
So the BMW may continue to be built in Oxford if the Uk can come up with a deal like the one we had already when we were still in the EU. Great victory, lads.
And before you party too hard, Investment in the U.K. Motor industry has fallen from 2.5 billion in 2015 (the last pre Brexit year ) to 322 million in the first half of 2017.
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Post by flean on Jul 22, 2017 5:44:15 GMT
Hang on didn't u say they were going to move the whole plant abroad flean 😉 Did I? Anyway, Davis and co not looking too good at the moment, it's hard to see any strategy at all. There ain't that long left for them to sort themselves out.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 22, 2017 7:18:34 GMT
They certainly ain't. But I think u will find if u go right back to the start of the first thread, I said I could see Europe making it so difficult to leave that it would never happen. And that even if a deal was reached it would go to the council who would turn it down and off we go again , round and round in never ending circles.
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