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Post by oufcyellows on Jun 7, 2015 9:09:15 GMT
Maybe using 5m to help support grass roots development, rather than bribing an fa not to take legal action against them. Maybe having more than 3 people read the proposals of a serious bidder rather than making up your mind on the amount that lines your pocket. Maybe having a clear an open organisation rather than a dictatorship similar to North Korea. And how would this actually benefit football? Really? What money being distributed to development and grass roots rather than lining exec's pockets. Someone in charge who can push the game forward and promote the woman's game which is becoming a popular sport. An organisation that puts the sports first. Read some of figo's proposal he talks a lot of sense
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Post by Marked Ox on Jun 7, 2015 10:22:48 GMT
Maybe using 5m to help support grass roots development, rather than bribing an fa not to take legal action against them. Maybe having more than 3 people read the proposals of a serious bidder rather than making up your mind on the amount that lines your pocket. Maybe having a clear an open organisation rather than a dictatorship similar to North Korea. And how would this actually benefit football? Whether or not an attempt at a whoosh, I shall give an answer. Investment in facilities or subsidising lower level FA coaching courses* as we have an embarrassingly low number compared to the likes of Germany, Spain etc. * Also, from what I've read the courses are expensive in comparison to Europe. P's. Paul, the cookery programme in the background just had Thyme and Quince Jelly infused Ostrich fillet as one of the meals. I'm sure you will join me, with many on here, in expressing OUTRAGE that it didn't win!!!!
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Post by Colin B on Jun 7, 2015 11:26:08 GMT
And how would this actually benefit football? Whether or not an attempt at a whoosh, I shall give an answer. Investment in facilities or subsidising lower level FA coaching courses* as we have an embarrassingly low number compared to the likes of Germany, Spain etc. * Also, from what I've read the courses are expensive in comparison to Europe. P's. Paul, the cookery programme in the background just had Thyme and Quince Jelly infused Ostrich fillet as one of the meals. I'm sure you will join me, with many on here, in expressing OUTRAGE that it didn't win!!!! I'm glad it didn't win. Ostrich fillet is very rich and need something deeper in flavour than quince jelly. Maybe black currant or blackberry jus would be better. I prefer my quince jelly with strong cheese. Discuss...........
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Post by Marked Ox on Jun 7, 2015 11:53:43 GMT
Whether or not an attempt at a whoosh, I shall give an answer. Investment in facilities or subsidising lower level FA coaching courses* as we have an embarrassingly low number compared to the likes of Germany, Spain etc. * Also, from what I've read the courses are expensive in comparison to Europe. P's. Paul, the cookery programme in the background just had Thyme and Quince Jelly infused Ostrich fillet as one of the meals. I'm sure you will join me, with many on here, in expressing OUTRAGE that it didn't win!!!! I'm glad it didn't win. Ostrich fillet is very rich and need something deeper in flavour than quince jelly. Maybe black currant or blackberry jus would be better. I prefer my quince jelly with strong cheese. Discuss........... Quince jelly does go well with strong cheese without doubt. That said, although the Ostrich fillet infused with Thyme and Quince Jelly didn't win, it got a lot of praise from James Martin who originally had similar worries to you. Also, tbf to the cook, he didn't have a choice on the fruit/jelly as they were given the ingredients.
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Post by Colin B on Jun 7, 2015 12:34:56 GMT
I'm glad it didn't win. Ostrich fillet is very rich and need something deeper in flavour than quince jelly. Maybe black currant or blackberry jus would be better. I prefer my quince jelly with strong cheese. Discuss........... Quince jelly does go well with strong cheese without doubt. That said, although the Ostrich fillet infused with Thyme and Quince Jelly didn't win, it got a lot of praise from James Martin who originally had similar worries to you. Also, tbf to the cook, he didn't have a choice on the fruit/jelly as they were given the ingredients. What TV programme was this? Sounds interesting.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 7, 2015 13:13:11 GMT
How will the FBI merge FIFA into an organisation that works for them? Are you saying they will influence both who the 205 football federations vote for as president, and will select the new EXCO? How soon are they going to achieve this? Keeping in mind that it could be just 4 months until a new president is voted on. Is it possible that Russia are also using their influence to meld FIFA into their sort of organisation? Which corporate powers do you speak of that will whip FIFA into line? Would this be Gazprom or Coca Cola? Or external corporate entities such as PepsiCo or Apple? Or individuals such as the Bilderberg Group? The U.S. via the FBI will try to do with FIFA whatever works for them - that is all we can be sure of at the moment. That might coincidentally be better for some nations - but I suspect my doubts are multiplied outside of the UEFA power bloc by many factors of ten.nothing as direct as that - FIFA remains the worlds largest NGO and will continue much as before - but the U.S. has sent a clear message - we'll only leave you alone if you behave yourself. That is a textbook gameplay from the book of soft power. Good behaviour will mean anticipatory compliance within certain policy norms, Blatter and co. overreached themselves when they thumbed their noses at U.S. sensibilities. It would be hard to make FIFA a more corporate / cash dominated beast to be fair - so that part should be easy for them. A few scapegoats will be hauled before the media to maintain the façade that this is all about corruption and then back to a new normal. it will be interesting to see if the FBI goes after match rigging - which is surely in the files. U.S. regime change is usually an abject disaster for all concerned - i'll spare you the blood spattered list that goes back to the 1950's, but you never know this might be a change for the better. It would certainly be a first. The bolded part is something you removed, but very pertinent in what you think. You clearly think the FBI will do whatever it takes, but cannot substantiate why. First and foremost, the case would not have got off the ground if it were not for journalists doing the digging on FIFA. As for FIFA, they are a Swiss organisation, so any US intervention will be limited as is shown in their current inditements. Notice how Bin Hamman has so far remained out of this? What anticipatory compliance within certain policy norms do you mean? Is this local US - in CONCACAF, or globally? Keeping in mind Obama is very keen on letting the world sort out their problems and playing golf instead.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 15:23:26 GMT
The U.S. via the FBI will try to do with FIFA whatever works for them - that is all we can be sure of at the moment. That might coincidentally be better for some nations - but I suspect my doubts are multiplied outside of the UEFA power bloc by many factors of ten.nothing as direct as that - FIFA remains the worlds largest NGO and will continue much as before - but the U.S. has sent a clear message - we'll only leave you alone if you behave yourself. That is a textbook gameplay from the book of soft power. Good behaviour will mean anticipatory compliance within certain policy norms, Blatter and co. overreached themselves when they thumbed their noses at U.S. sensibilities. It would be hard to make FIFA a more corporate / cash dominated beast to be fair - so that part should be easy for them. A few scapegoats will be hauled before the media to maintain the façade that this is all about corruption and then back to a new normal. it will be interesting to see if the FBI goes after match rigging - which is surely in the files. U.S. regime change is usually an abject disaster for all concerned - i'll spare you the blood spattered list that goes back to the 1950's, but you never know this might be a change for the better. It would certainly be a first. The bolded part is something you removed, but very pertinent in what you think. You clearly think the FBI will do whatever it takes, but cannot substantiate why. First and foremost, the case would not have got off the ground if it were not for journalists doing the digging on FIFA. As for FIFA, they are a Swiss organisation, so any US intervention will be limited as is shown in their current inditements. Notice how Bin Hamman has so far remained out of this? What anticipatory compliance within certain policy norms do you mean? Is this local US - in CONCACAF, or globally? Keeping in mind Obama is very keen on letting the world sort out their problems and playing golf instead. You reply to your own assertions about what I didn't and haven't said - then add a few outlandish nonsenses of your own. I do understand that you think you're very clever in attempting to paint me as a loon conspiracy theorist - but I have made clear that I rarely believe in such things - more groups of aligned self interest. I have watched the agency of American power for decades and I know what I'm watching. You on the other hand are just pinballing around the curved mirrors in your head. Enjoy.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jun 7, 2015 19:17:56 GMT
And how would this actually benefit football? Really? What money being distributed to development and grass roots rather than lining exec's pockets. Someone in charge who can push the game forward and promote the woman's game which is becoming a popular sport. An organisation that puts the sports first. Read some of figo's proposal he talks a lot of sense I'm trying to work out when I posted that. Dunno. I'm not about to read Figo's proposal, which is my bad. Anyway, good post; I stand unconvinced, and unconvincingly. I'm not against hope, perhaps something good will come of it but they'l never make another Chaka Khan; I'm pretty sure about that.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jun 7, 2015 19:36:51 GMT
Quince jelly does go well with strong cheese without doubt. That said, although the Ostrich fillet infused with Thyme and Quince Jelly didn't win, it got a lot of praise from James Martin who originally had similar worries to you. Also, tbf to the cook, he didn't have a choice on the fruit/jelly as they were given the ingredients. What TV programme was this? Sounds interesting. I may be wrong but I think it's called Saturday Morning Kitchen, presented by the man markedox mentioned above. If it's this, the presenter, James something, has turned my default posture of hatred into a grudging kind of half-liking; which is no mean feat, as John Major (a man to whom the joys of quince were not entirely foreign, if my sources are to be credited) once said, More than once. I'm not sure I've ever eaten ostrich, eschewing the exotic being second nature to me, although I may have experienced it in one of those truly appalling eateries in Africa where you have a flag on the table and underpaid locals are despatched from the kitchen with the choicest cuts of unspeakable, rare, animals until you succumb to some form of fatigue and turn it down (the flag) and then have to watch the South Africans eating ice cream while the hands of the clock tick interminably towards some form of termination, not closure, just the longed-for end to an appalling experience. I do wonder if a dab of quince may undercut the joyous sweetness of a partridge, though, perhaps with a touch of blue cheese roasted in a sorrel basket; or bring a welcome moisture to a breast of the pheasant? Thanks god the winter will soon return, bringing the chill blast of the away end and refreshing the thirst for hare, saddle roast, stewed with celery and carrots and most beautifully with morels, vastly reduced with pappardelle. Ou sont les lièvres d'antan?
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 7, 2015 22:19:44 GMT
You reply to your own assertions about what I didn't and haven't said - then add a few outlandish nonsenses of your own. I do understand that you think you're very clever in attempting to paint me as a loon conspiracy theorist - but I have made clear that I rarely believe in such things - more groups of aligned self interest. I have watched the agency of American power for decades and I know what I'm watching. You on the other hand are just pinballing around the curved mirrors in your head. Enjoy. Nothing of the sort. I'm just trying to understand why you think what you do, primarily as you seem so confident in it being correct. Is that so wrong?
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Post by Marked Ox on Jun 8, 2015 11:03:54 GMT
Quince jelly does go well with strong cheese without doubt. That said, although the Ostrich fillet infused with Thyme and Quince Jelly didn't win, it got a lot of praise from James Martin who originally had similar worries to you. Also, tbf to the cook, he didn't have a choice on the fruit/jelly as they were given the ingredients. What TV programme was this? Sounds interesting. The Box on BBC1 or 2.
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Post by Marked Ox on Jun 8, 2015 11:11:23 GMT
What TV programme was this? Sounds interesting. I may be wrong but I think it's called Saturday Morning Kitchen, presented by the man markedox mentioned above. If it's this, the presenter, James something, has turned my default posture of hatred into a grudging kind of half-liking; which is no mean feat, as John Major (a man to whom the joys of quince were not entirely foreign, if my sources are to be credited) once said, More than once. I'm not sure I've ever eaten ostrich, eschewing the exotic being second nature to me, although I may have experienced it in one of those truly appalling eateries in Africa where you have a flag on the table and underpaid locals are despatched from the kitchen with the choicest cuts of unspeakable, rare, animals until you succumb to some form of fatigue and turn it down (the flag) and then have to watch the South Africans eating ice cream while the hands of the clock tick interminably towards some form of termination, not closure, just the longed-for end to an appalling experience. I do wonder if a dab of quince may undercut the joyous sweetness of a partridge, though, perhaps with a touch of blue cheese roasted in a sorrel basket; or bring a welcome moisture to a breast of the pheasant? Thanks god the winter will soon return, bringing the chill blast of the away end and refreshing the thirst for hare, saddle roast, stewed with celery and carrots and most beautifully with morels, vastly reduced with pappardelle. Ou sont les lièvres d'antan? It was on after Saturday Kitchen Best Bites. James Martin seems to have a monopoly on food programmes on the BBC at the weekend. Partridge or Pheasant should be a good match for Quince.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 12:31:38 GMT
You reply to your own assertions about what I didn't and haven't said - then add a few outlandish nonsenses of your own. I do understand that you think you're very clever in attempting to paint me as a loon conspiracy theorist - but I have made clear that I rarely believe in such things - more groups of aligned self interest. I have watched the agency of American power for decades and I know what I'm watching. You on the other hand are just pinballing around the curved mirrors in your head. Enjoy. Nothing of the sort. I'm just trying to understand why you think what you do, primarily as you seem so confident in it being correct. Is that so wrong? well maybe I'm being a tad tetchy. I'm more genial face to face. This is a decent summary of my views on it. www.sodiumhaze.org/2015/06/08/the-humbling-of-fifa-how-the-u-s-will-now-decide-where-the-world-cup-is-played/
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 8, 2015 13:13:54 GMT
Np.
I think the article is too focussed on the US. I think there is a more global nuanced game afoot with FIFA but I'll leave it there, so old territory is not walked over again.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 13:32:25 GMT
I guess you like conspiracy theories then.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 14:03:05 GMT
Np. I think the article is too focussed on the US. I think there is a more global nuanced game afoot with FIFA but I'll leave it there, so old territory is not walked over again. interesting... so who is playing that game and why?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 14:10:17 GMT
I guess you like conspiracy theories then. I guess you like pointless throwaway remarks then. Trying to establish what is going on in the world when one cannot be directly party to all events will always be an imperfect process - the involvement of the U.S. in geopolitical power plays just like this one is a matter historical fact. What they are up to this time seems fairly clear to me - but I'm used to watching them work, the Americans often lack... subtlety. But if you are happy to believe what you read in the papers then i'll leave you to your kool aid.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 14:45:48 GMT
I guess you like conspiracy theories then. I guess you like pointless throwaway remarks then. Trying to establish what is going on in the world when one cannot be directly party to all events will always be an imperfect process - the involvement of the U.S. in geopolitical power plays just like this one is a matter historical fact. What they are up to this time seems fairly clear to me - but I'm used to watching them work, the Americans often lack... subtlety. But if you are happy to believe what you read in the papers then i'll leave you to your kool aid. No its just a bit far fetched for me. Entirely possible im sure but all a bit dramatic. I don't believe everything I read in the papers or the internet. I just like to make my own judgement.
The kool aid is tasting good today.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 8, 2015 21:41:17 GMT
Np. I think the article is too focussed on the US. I think there is a more global nuanced game afoot with FIFA but I'll leave it there, so old territory is not walked over again. interesting... so who is playing that game and why? You have a source in the Middle East (Qatar judging by the paper trail) that willingly opened their archive to a newspaper to do some digging for 3 months before the last WC, knowing what goodies were stored inside - it wasn't due to hacking that the information was sought. The journalists in charge found a cache that heavily implicated different individuals around the world in criminal behaviour. FIFA is a vipers nest of politics, Blatter being the puppet master. The fall out from Qatar getting the WC, and Bin Hamman losing the FIFA President race left some people in the area unhappy. Some of the bidders in the last process are people of high principles, high connections and high finance. Whether it be from South Korea, Australia, UK or USA. You have old political stalwarts (Kissinger), Royal families (UK/Qatar) or automotive big wigs (Mong Koo Chung). Those people don't like losing, and I would assume don't losing in a dirty way. The US in the FBI, are certainly the initiator of change in regards to FIFA - one can you argue why FIFA when the US is rife with new evolved organisation crime threats, but that's academic as it's happening. Michael Garcia was distinctly unhappy with his treatment and is well connected. But there are also other power plays going on, and people talk. Platini clearly sees himself as a leader for FIFA having served under Blatter and has been positioning himself as such for a long time to reform FIFA. Mong Koo Chung wants to be President and has been long known as someone who wants to reform FIFA. The English FA have long been agitating for change and haven't been quiet about FIFA nor the need for reform. Then you have Prince Ali bin Hussein and Frank Lowy. Etc, etc. Plus of course there is Switzerland being fed up as being seen as a venue for dodgy banking practices, and hosting NGOs with question practices in the IOC and FIFA.
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Post by Colin B on Jun 9, 2015 6:22:47 GMT
I may be wrong but I think it's called Saturday Morning Kitchen, presented by the man markedox mentioned above. If it's this, the presenter, James something, has turned my default posture of hatred into a grudging kind of half-liking; which is no mean feat, as John Major (a man to whom the joys of quince were not entirely foreign, if my sources are to be credited) once said, More than once. I'm not sure I've ever eaten ostrich, eschewing the exotic being second nature to me, although I may have experienced it in one of those truly appalling eateries in Africa where you have a flag on the table and underpaid locals are despatched from the kitchen with the choicest cuts of unspeakable, rare, animals until you succumb to some form of fatigue and turn it down (the flag) and then have to watch the South Africans eating ice cream while the hands of the clock tick interminably towards some form of termination, not closure, just the longed-for end to an appalling experience. I do wonder if a dab of quince may undercut the joyous sweetness of a partridge, though, perhaps with a touch of blue cheese roasted in a sorrel basket; or bring a welcome moisture to a breast of the pheasant? Thanks god the winter will soon return, bringing the chill blast of the away end and refreshing the thirst for hare, saddle roast, stewed with celery and carrots and most beautifully with morels, vastly reduced with pappardelle. Ou sont les lièvres d'antan? It was on after Saturday Kitchen Best Bites. James Martin seems to have a monopoly on food programmes on the BBC at the weekend. Partridge or Pheasant should be a good match for Quince. I often watch James Martin, if I'm around on a Saturday morning, but haven't seen The Box. I'll look out for it.. Still not sure about quince with rich gamey meat though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 8:26:44 GMT
interesting... so who is playing that game and why? You have a source in the Middle East (Qatar judging by the paper trail) that willingly opened their archive to a newspaper to do some digging for 3 months before the last WC, knowing what goodies were stored inside - it wasn't due to hacking that the information was sought. The journalists in charge found a cache that heavily implicated different individuals around the world in criminal behaviour. FIFA is a vipers nest of politics, Blatter being the puppet master. The fall out from Qatar getting the WC, and Bin Hamman losing the FIFA President race left some people in the area unhappy. Some of the bidders in the last process are people of high principles, high connections and high finance. Whether it be from South Korea, Australia, UK or USA. You have old political stalwarts (Kissinger), Royal families (UK/Qatar) or automotive big wigs (Mong Koo Chung). Those people don't like losing, and I would assume don't losing in a dirty way. The US in the FBI, are certainly the initiator of change in regards to FIFA - one can you argue why FIFA when the US is rife with new evolved organisation crime threats, but that's academic as it's happening. Michael Garcia was distinctly unhappy with his treatment and is well connected. But there are also other power plays going on, and people talk. Platini clearly sees himself as a leader for FIFA having served under Blatter and has been positioning himself as such for a long time to reform FIFA. Mong Koo Chung wants to be President and has been long known as someone who wants to reform FIFA. The English FA have long been agitating for change and haven't been quiet about FIFA nor the need for reform. Then you have Prince Ali bin Hussein and Frank Lowy. Etc, etc. Plus of course there is Switzerland being fed up as being seen as a venue for dodgy banking practices, and hosting NGOs with question practices in the IOC and FIFA. Very interesting - thanks. Perhaps the footballs being kicked are more neoliberal oligarch shaped than geopolitical, more piqued losers than motivated special agents. I'm so used to the U.S. lying that it never occurred to me that it really might not be about Russia. Its a very cloudy picture. The U.S. has military bases in Qatar and their Emir was in the U.S. very recently (interesting timing!) so the least they'd want is a trade off with the Saudi's in local bragging rights. It would be extraordinarily provocative to overturn the world cup voting now - that is the key to understanding this puzzle methinks. Surely Platini is tainted goods now?
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 9, 2015 12:50:53 GMT
Platini for me is a tainted brand, but career bureaucrats such as him have short memories and many friends.
FIFA is an organisation that moves with wheels inside wheels inside wheels. The US are not a big cog in that, in the same England or Australia aren't. The real power is in numbers, not size. Annexation of CONCACAF and Africa from FIFA would make it easier for the economic powers to have real influence, but it's simply not possible or feasible. Russian rhetoric is largely a distraction from their supposed bribery, and the US make a wonderful patsy.
Think of FIFA like the plot of Game of Thrones.
The problem with Russia and Qatar is it seems that level of bribery and corruption was a larger scale than ever. It's not out of the realms of possibility that Qatar will be re-run, maybe even Russia. There are rules to bid for the WC, and they broke them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 10:36:43 GMT
Platini for me is a tainted brand, but career bureaucrats such as him have short memories and many friends. FIFA is an organisation that moves with wheels inside wheels inside wheels. The US are not a big cog in that, in the same England or Australia aren't. The real power is in numbers, not size. Annexation of CONCACAF and Africa from FIFA would make it easier for the economic powers to have real influence, but it's simply not possible or feasible. Russian rhetoric is largely a distraction from their supposed bribery, and the US make a wonderful patsy. Think of FIFA like the plot of Game of Thrones. The problem with Russia and Qatar is it seems that level of bribery and corruption was a larger scale than ever. It's not out of the realms of possibility that Qatar will be re-run, maybe even Russia. There are rules to bid for the WC, and they broke them. Maybe not in FIFA - but they are the biggest cog in most other things. The U.S. has gone to extraordinary lengths to attempt to undermine Putin's Russia. The deeply provocative meddling of NATO in the Ukraine is but one example (can you imagine the reaction if that was being played out in reverse in Mexico or Cuba?). The World Cup strengthens Putin at a time when falling oil revenues are bleeding Russian influence and power - losing it weakens him. At the very least, the U.S. would obviously have known in advance that throwing extradition orders for corruption around was going to cast doubt on the Russian and Qatari bidding process. The FBI intervention will have sent tidal waves of horror around FIFA. I doubt that many of the higher echelons can sleep easily because they know they are entirely stain free - so they'll have a very big incentive in future to be more mindful of geopolitical context that they operate in and who the biggest players are. FIFA was run just as the FIA for Formula 1 is run - grand prixs to the highest bidder and no awkward questions asked, if it were any different the Qatari World Cup would have been cancelled as soon as the scale of the deaths of the migrant workers became apparent.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 10:46:56 GMT
www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jun/10/fifa-world-cup-bidding-postponed
Interesting that the Russians have been very quick to defend FIFA and Blatter in particular.
Its obvious he was their man at FIFA (although Sepp was a bit like Clay Davis in The Wire at that!) - no wonder the U.S. wanted him out prior to the 2026 bidding.
My hunch is the U.S. will win after the bidding process has been erm 'reformed'.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jun 10, 2015 11:45:10 GMT
If there is any conspiracy then it's sepp himself. Wouldn't put it past him to step down to avoided a lot of the flack flying his way, only to do a complete about face the week before elections take place to say he feels he has turned Fifa around, sorted the corruption and feels it best he stays on full term
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Post by Marked Ox on Jun 10, 2015 12:20:32 GMT
Platini for me is a tainted brand, but career bureaucrats such as him have short memories and many friends. FIFA is an organisation that moves with wheels inside wheels inside wheels. The US are not a big cog in that, in the same England or Australia aren't. The real power is in numbers, not size. Annexation of CONCACAF and Africa from FIFA would make it easier for the economic powers to have real influence, but it's simply not possible or feasible. Russian rhetoric is largely a distraction from their supposed bribery, and the US make a wonderful patsy. Think of FIFA like the plot of Game of Thrones. The problem with Russia and Qatar is it seems that level of bribery and corruption was a larger scale than ever. It's not out of the realms of possibility that Qatar will be re-run, maybe even Russia. There are rules to bid for the WC, and they broke them. Maybe not in FIFA - but they are the biggest cog in most other things. The U.S. has gone to extraordinary lengths to attempt to undermine Putin's Russia. The deeply provocative meddling of NATO in the Ukraine is but one example (can you imagine the reaction if that was being played out in reverse in Mexico or Cuba?). The World Cup strengthens Putin at a time when falling oil revenues are bleeding Russian influence and power - losing it weakens him. At the very least, the U.S. would obviously have known in advance that throwing extradition orders for corruption around was going to cast doubt on the Russian and Qatari bidding process. The FBI intervention will have sent tidal waves of horror around FIFA. I doubt that many of the higher echelons can sleep easily because they know they are entirely stain free - so they'll have a very big incentive in future to be more mindful of geopolitical context that they operate in and who the biggest players are. FIFA was run just as the FIA for Formula 1 is run - grand prixs to the highest bidder and no awkward questions asked, if it were any different the Qatari World Cup would have been cancelled as soon as the scale of the deaths of the migrant workers became apparent. You talk of the provocative meddling of NATO in Ukraine undermining Putin. That was an EU deal, not NATO, that got cancelled by Russia's puppet. Never mind the poisoning of the leader of the Orange revolution, Russia's annexing the Crimea, Russian troops/weapons involved with the so called rebels and the holding of Ukraine to hostage over gas suggests the provocation/invasion is by Russia on another sovereign country. Whereas, Russian forces have kidnapped a Estonian(iirc or another Baltic state, all NATO) Border Official from the sovereign land of that country and still hold him captive/or have murdered him. Russia have significantly increased military spending and military exercises. Furthermore, Russia have significantly increased provocative/hostile Bomber simulations in European airspace including entering some of those countries airspace. As for China, they are increasing their military hardware including the projection of naval power. Against International law, they are building new islands (such as Spratleys) in the South China Sea to place military positions on against significantly weaker countries such as Thailand/Vietnam. Also, China is building tensions by increasing use of naval assets around disputed Islands with Japan. The point is all the major powers are at it, so to just have a go at America for it and to blame them is very one-eyed, especially where Ukraine is concerned.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 10, 2015 13:05:41 GMT
Agree MarkedOx.
At least FIFA have stopped the charade of 2026 going ahead.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 14:19:48 GMT
Maybe not in FIFA - but they are the biggest cog in most other things. The U.S. has gone to extraordinary lengths to attempt to undermine Putin's Russia. The deeply provocative meddling of NATO in the Ukraine is but one example (can you imagine the reaction if that was being played out in reverse in Mexico or Cuba?). The World Cup strengthens Putin at a time when falling oil revenues are bleeding Russian influence and power - losing it weakens him. At the very least, the U.S. would obviously have known in advance that throwing extradition orders for corruption around was going to cast doubt on the Russian and Qatari bidding process. The FBI intervention will have sent tidal waves of horror around FIFA. I doubt that many of the higher echelons can sleep easily because they know they are entirely stain free - so they'll have a very big incentive in future to be more mindful of geopolitical context that they operate in and who the biggest players are. FIFA was run just as the FIA for Formula 1 is run - grand prixs to the highest bidder and no awkward questions asked, if it were any different the Qatari World Cup would have been cancelled as soon as the scale of the deaths of the migrant workers became apparent. You talk of the provocative meddling of NATO in Ukraine undermining Putin. That was an EU deal, not NATO, that got cancelled by Russia's puppet. Never mind the poisoning of the leader of the Orange revolution, Russia's annexing the Crimea, Russian troops/weapons involved with the so called rebels and the holding of Ukraine to hostage over gas suggests the provocation/invasion is by Russia on another sovereign country. Whereas, Russian forces have kidnapped a Estonian(iirc or another Baltic state, all NATO) Border Official from the sovereign land of that country and still hold him captive/or have murdered him. Russia have significantly increased military spending and military exercises. Furthermore, Russia have significantly increased provocative/hostile Bomber simulations in European airspace including entering some of those countries airspace. As for China, they are increasing their military hardware including the projection of naval power. Against International law, they are building new islands (such as Spratleys) in the South China Sea to place military positions on against significantly weaker countries such as Thailand/Vietnam. Also, China is building tensions by increasing use of naval assets around disputed Islands with Japan. The point is all the major powers are at it, so to just have a go at America for it and to blame them is very one-eyed, especially where Ukraine is concerned. There was an old Amiga game called Balance of Power which introduced me to the concept of spheres of influence - Ukraine is obviously deep within Russia's legitimate sphere of influence, so much so in fact that we rely on Putin's repeated restraint to avoid a renewed and very dangerous escalation. I repeat the question you carefully avoided answering - what would happen if Russia and her allies were involved in Cuba as the U.S. is involved in the Ukraine? The EU is full of NATO members and walks and talks the NATO line so that distinction is effectively meaningless. One thing is certain, wherever NATO goes, war soon follows - they are the most dangerous and war mongering military alliance on the planet by far. The U.S. is the most dangerous nation on earth, a view that recent studies reveal as prevalent the world over.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jun 10, 2015 14:33:04 GMT
Putins restraint are you having a laugh, they are the ones escalating it.
Sky news today. Russian Soldiers' Deaths Raise Ukraine Questions Katie Stallard, in central Russia The recent deaths of three Russian servicemen raise serious questions about the Kremlin's claim that its military is not operating in Ukraine.
Our team travelled to remote villages in central and southern Russia to find the freshly dug graves of three young men, each bearing a wreath from Russia's ministry of defence.
Anton Savelyev, Timur Mamayusupov and Ivan Kardapolov died on the same day - 5 May, 2015.
Social media activists connected their deaths through tributes posted online, and identified the locations of their graves.
They found references to the elite 16th Brigade Spetsnaz, but when Sky News asked at the base they denied having heard of any of the men.
We found the first grave in a small cemetery in the Tambov region of southern Russia, a few miles from where the 16th Brigade is based.
Anton Savelyev died the week before his 21st birthday. A framed photo shows him wearing Russia's paratrooper uniform, the same uniform worn by 16th Brigade.
He was pictured on social media standing in front of the 16th Brigade memorial.
On his grave there was a wreath addressed: "To the Defender of the Fatherland, from the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation."
Other flowers were marked: "From comrades" and "From the command of the unit".
A lady who knows the family said Anton Savelyev "died heroically" but asked us not to give her name for fear of the consequences of speaking out.
"They were sent to Rostov and in Ukraine. In Ukraine everything is done quietly," she said.
"We don't know where exactly, but somewhere there.
"It's Ukraine's fault that he died of course. It's a shame that we die for not our motherland."
From there we flew to Ufa in central Russia, then by road to the republic of Tatarstan - the home of Timur Mamayusupov.
His grave was strikingly similar to Anton's - we found the same wreaths from the ministry of defence and the unit command, and the same date of death.
Photos uploaded to Russian social media sites show Timur posing with the Spetsnaz flag, along with a service medal for the Russian military operation in Crimea last year, which was denied by Russian authorities at the time.
Other photos show Timur with the flag of the separatists' Luhansk People's Republic, and in front of a distinctive armoured personnel carrier (APC) known to have been used by the rebels in East Ukraine.
Timur's mother told Sky News she was given a notice of death from the military that said her son had died "in the North Caucasus" - a restive region in southern Russia - but no specific location.
But there are no reports of Russian military casualties around this date in either Russian or local media, or from militant groups known to operate there, for whom the death of a Russian soldier would be a powerful propaganda tool.
Guzel Mamayusupov said she had been worried her son might be sent to Ukraine, and he had told her he would go if he was asked.
"When he was on vacation I told him that if you get sent to Ukraine, let me know," she said.
"He said, 'Mum, if they send me to Ukraine, I will go, I won't refuse, but I will warn you about it'. He didn't give me such a warning."
Russia blogger Ruslan Leviev has led the social media investigation into the deaths and his network first connected the three men.
"Many relatives of both Timur and Ivan wrote on social media websites that they died at war," he said.
"We all know that there is no war in the North Caucasus, there is no anti-terrorist operations there at the moment.
"There is only one war and that's in eastern Ukraine."
Ruslan has been getting death threats - he showed us a photograph of a funeral wreath in his name - but he is determined to continue with his work.
"We want to show the people that our government is lying even to its soldiers, that they abandon them, those who were captured and died," he said.
The third man, Ivan Kardapolov, was from another rundown rural village, close to the border with Kazakhstan.
Again, we found the same wreaths at his grave, and the same date of death.
The location is so remote that at first very little was known about Ivan, but then a local man read about the deaths on Ruslan's blog and decided to investigate the death in this region.
He said Ivan's brother told him that at the funeral there were Federal Security Service officers who had asked mourners to remove their parade uniforms.
But they had refused and paid their last respects in military dress.
It was not possible to independently verify this account.
The family said they had been told that Ivan died in the North Caucasus, but again with no more specific location.
Several of his friends from the village told us Ivan died in Ukraine.
A man who gave his name as Dmitry said: "His niece was told that he was in Ukraine, that's where he died.
"The notice of death came, the military recruitment officer brought it personally."
Another man said Ivan died "in Donbas", a region claimed by pro-Russian rebels in Ukraine.
He said there had been paratroopers at the funeral, but that Ivan himself "was Spetsnaz".
In each of the three locations a number of people told us the men "died heroically" - but if they did, serving their country, and not in Ukraine, why is their government silent about their deaths?
And if these men had left the army and were not on active duty at the time, why is the ministry of defence sending flowers to their funerals?
We put these cases to ministry of defence, and Federal Security Services, but have yet to receive a response.
Russian officials, from the President down, continue to insist there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine and that any Russian citizens who might be there are "volunteers".
Vladimir Putin has since signed a decree declaring the deaths of Russian servicemen in "special operations" a state secret - but no such operations have yet been announced.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 14:51:25 GMT
This entire, lovely old world of ours is corrupt. It's inevitable while there are points to score, lands to invade, money to be made. FIFA's shenanigans are just a very low level, relatively unimportant example of worldwide corruption. Don't know why people are getting so exercised about it.
It needs sorting, certainly, but it does seem it's a convenient opportunity for politicians around the globe to point the finger of righteous indignation at a bunch of soccercrats, thus diverting attention from themselves and the activities that should really be bothering us.
While a few sad but ultimately powerless FIFA officials are lining their pockets with not very much cash, it gives David Cameron an opportunity to take the moral high ground he so conveniently vacated when his banker chums were causing mayhem. Obama takes time out of his busy schedule destabilising the middle east in conjunction with Israel and Saudi Arabia to point the finger at naughty Sepp. Putin maintains Russia's pariah status by going against the grain and supporting FIFA's hosting decisions; anything to stop people noticing his re-establishment of Tsarist Russia, eh?
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