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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 4, 2015 21:53:45 GMT
Can any of the outraged commenters on this thread enlighten me? What has FIFA done that isn't standard practice in the U.S. & U.K. 'democracies'? and why is it suddenly important? In the US, I believe by using the US Dollar while laundering money or racketeering/using accounts based in the US, the individuals indited have broken US laws. FIFA need to blame the Mafia for this one - Rudy Giuliani in particular. The laws are (for some) overly non-domestic in nature, and thus the FBI are over reaching their jurisdiction, but that is their law and they are enforcing it. If those indited had not used the US or their currency, the FBI would not have a case. In the UK, I believe it's a similar issue, but the SFO are more domestic in nature and less likely to pursue those abroad. Personally, I've been banging on about FIFA from before the 2018/2022 WC awards. It's not a sudden issue for me. Certainly on here, this a football message board first and foremost, not a general message board. So FIFA has been a become a more pertinent concern than it may do in other places on the internet. If other issues are pertinent, then create a thread and talk about the issues. Don't complain no one is talking about them. As for HSBC. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Swiss law is the issue - intimates as much on the Gruaniad article. The Swiss don't want to kill their golden goose so it looks like they've taken the fine them route and hope it works out. I can't see it changing any time soon.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 8:55:23 GMT
Can any of the outraged commenters on this thread enlighten me? What has FIFA done that isn't standard practice in the U.S. & U.K. 'democracies'? and why is it suddenly important? Swiss law is the issue - intimates as much on the Gruaniad article. erm how about U.S law? www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/gangster-bankers-too-big-to-jail-20130214
Prosecutions? - none.
and the LBOR scandal involved ten banks. Prosecutions? - none.
how about...
europe.newsweek.com/hsbc-embroiled-new-price-fixing-scandal-309156
I wonder how many people at HSBC will get arrested? None, would be my guess!
Dear Lord don't even get me started about Barclays & RBS! I'd be posting links all morning. (prosecutions? none)
So when multi-national banks repeatedly engage in all manner of criminal behaviours, nobody gets arrested and the stories are reported sotto voce in the media.
But when some FIFA officials take back handers and use the organisation like erm a bank... the media and prosecutors are abruptly up in arms.
and people buy this story? seriously? how stupid are you?
If the authorities cared about money laundering they would jail the biggest players - instead they go after FIFA.
If the authorities cared about money influencing voting outcomes then the domination of politics in the U.S. by corporate money would be exposed and broken. It won't be.
Conclusion: This hoopla with FIFA has little to do with corruption or clean votes.
Perhaps the egalitarian distribution of wealth and power around all of FIFA's regional bodies has got up the nose of some very powerful people - now FIFA will get 'cleaned up' and the money will get directed to the usual suspects instead and the world cups handed out to the powerful countries.
I suspect the FIFA we will end up with will be 100% worse for the game than the one we have now.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jun 5, 2015 9:09:03 GMT
I doubt your conclusion is wrong; although it'll probably be nicer for the gentlemen's club that runs the organisation on behalf of the banks and a handful of competitive brand leaders and worse for everybody else.
It is more than a little ironic that the sanctions on UK banks (whose lawbreaking staff are clearly identifiable by emails and chat room messaging and whose responsible management can only ever be found when there are bonuses to be paid) are restricted to financial penalties that, in effect, are paid and underwritten by me & you, the taxpayer who bailed them out. Prison sentences for individuals would work; that's why they aren't used. Sick.
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Post by foley on Jun 5, 2015 12:20:23 GMT
Regardless of what the banks were up to (and incidentally I would argue that some of the perpetrators should have been jailed), how does this absolve FIFA for being an incredibly corrupt organisation? How is it not right for this to be cleaned up?
Why shouldn't the Media be up in arms? The Times did a very good story on some of what had gone on in FIFA. Blatter's reaction? Not to suggest that he would look into it and start reforming the organisation. No instead he suggested that the press were 'racist'.
Sure the head of the World football authorities could be sexist and homophobic himself- and he was pretty likely to have known about the blatant corruption going on. If not he most certainly should have.
So far as the comment that FIFA will be what 100% a worse organisation, let's hope not. Let's hope that we have a structured organisation where there is no blatant corruption. Let's hope too that Africa get World Cups and there is significant investment in their football (spending some of the alleged $1billion in FIFA's bank account may be a good idea unless they are saving up for a few hand balls in the next few qualifiers). I am not sure why FIFA should not be a decent straight organisation and not be good for the game. Are these mutually exclusive (incidentally the bookies reckon that Blatter's replacement will not come from Europe or the US)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 13:27:01 GMT
Regardless of what the banks were up to (and incidentally I would argue that some of the perpetrators should have been jailed), how does this absolve FIFA for being an incredibly corrupt organisation? How is it not right for this to be cleaned up?
Why shouldn't the Media be up in arms? The Times did a very good story on some of what had gone on in FIFA. Blatter's reaction? Not to suggest that he would look into it and start reforming the organisation. No instead he suggested that the press were 'racist'.
Sure the head of the World football authorities could be sexist and homophobic himself- and he was pretty likely to have known about the blatant corruption going on. If not he most certainly should have.
So far as the comment that FIFA will be what 100% a worse organisation, let's hope not. Let's hope that we have a structured organisation where there is no blatant corruption. Let's hope too that Africa get World Cups and there is significant investment in their football (spending some of the alleged $1billion in FIFA's bank account may be a good idea unless they are saving up for a few hand balls in the next few qualifiers). I am not sure why FIFA should not be a decent straight organisation and not be good for the game. Are these mutually exclusive (incidentally the bookies reckon that Blatter's replacement will not come from Europe or the US) It doesn't absolve FIFA. Nobody is saying that. My point is that the story we are being told is a half truth at best. If the U.S. authorities are so bothered about money laundering then why allow the bankers of HSBC to walk free - individually fined not a single cent and after serving not one day of jail time? You call FIFA 'incredibly corrupt' but the sums of money with the HSBC case are much bigger and the people involved far worse. Why are some FIFA executives now on an Interpol red list while HSBC executives are free to carry on collecting bonuses? Is taking back handers worse than laundering money for notorious Mexican drug cartels, Al Queda and North Korea? Much of the money for the alleged bribes was routed through British colonies offshore. How can the UK huff and puff about FIFA's dealings when they quietly helped facilitate them? Why were the media not 'up in arms' about HSBC, Barclays, RBS, etc etc - allegations which are far more serious, involve illegal manipulations on a global scale involving far bigger sums of money? Why have they not demanded the imprisonment of the HSBC board or least their removal? When will Barclays be 'cleaned up'? Is football administration more important than the global financial system? Corruption (legal or otherwise) is an inevitable global pandemic these days - always the very flower of neoliberalism - but why go after FIFA and why now? João Havelange anyone? The corruption of FIFA under his rule was an open secret - and he was president longer than Blatter. I have seen no plausible answer to these questions yet (spectacle isn't a big enough reason Paul) You want a story about FIFA? Here's one. 1200 migrant workers (slaves) worked to death building the stadiums for the Qatar World Cup (so far). Are the media 'up in the arms' about that? Of course not - a lonely article in the Washington Post feebly echoed by The Guardian is about all that was seen. When the corporate media attacks something there is always a reason - FIFA is unusual insofar as its history has protected it from outright purchase by corporate money and thus has a degree of independence. The growing financial clout of FIFA and its relative independence might explain why its dealings are suddenly beyond the pale for the oligarchs who run the world these days. Much will be revealed by how the post Blatter game gets played. Its a very murky picture at the moment.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 5, 2015 13:51:18 GMT
Swiss law is the issue - intimates as much on the Gruaniad article. erm how about U.S law? www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/gangster-bankers-too-big-to-jail-20130214
Prosecutions? - none.
and the LBOR scandal involved ten banks. Prosecutions? - none.
how about...
europe.newsweek.com/hsbc-embroiled-new-price-fixing-scandal-309156
I wonder how many people at HSBC will get arrested? None, would be my guess!
Dear Lord don't even get me started about Barclays & RBS! I'd be posting links all morning. (prosecutions? none)
So when multi-national banks repeatedly engage in all manner of criminal behaviours, nobody gets arrested and the stories are reported sotto voce in the media.
But when some FIFA officials take back handers and use the organisation like erm a bank... the media and prosecutors are abruptly up in arms.
and people buy this story? seriously? how stupid are you?
If the authorities cared about money laundering they would jail the biggest players - instead they go after FIFA.
If the authorities cared about money influencing voting outcomes then the domination of politics in the U.S. by corporate money would be exposed and broken. It won't be.
Conclusion: This hoopla with FIFA has little to do with corruption or clean votes.
Perhaps the egalitarian distribution of wealth and power around all of FIFA's regional bodies has got up the nose of some very powerful people - now FIFA will get 'cleaned up' and the money will get directed to the usual suspects instead and the world cups handed out to the powerful countries.
I suspect the FIFA we will end up with will be 100% worse for the game than the one we have now.
It all depends on where the offences take place. If HSBC Switzerland didn't use the USD, or use the US domestic banking system, then the issue is not within their jurisdiction. Or something else such as burden of proof - we don't do lynch mobs or dunking witches nowadays. The article states that the likelihood of prosecution in Switzerland is low due to the threshold of proof needed, so its clear why they were fined and no arrests happened. Having a day out in court is good for PR, but it is likely to not deliver justice people like yourself demand. Lets not forget the good old CPS over here taking all those evil Sun journalists to court and barely getting a prosecution. I don't see how FIFA cannot be about corruption. It's at the very core of the issue, and has been detailed by both the Sunday Times, and within the excellent book written by their Insights team. Even South Africa's alleged $10 million payment, or the "loan" to the FAI are two of the most recent examples. The mechanism to gain prosecution of those indited is of course open to debate. My belief is it was initiated via Kissinger and Clinton, who were appalled at how dirty the bidding process was. RICO laws made the prosecution easier than it may be in other countries, and flipping a witness in Blazer made their case a lot more rock solid. If Jack Warner flips, then the case solidifies even more and the federal prosecution will be confident. The FBI have been working on this since 2012, so its not a fly by night case. It's not clear who will or will not get money from new FIFA. Unless you know something no one else does? Calling people stupid is not a way to get people to listen to you. Explain what, how and why in a way that people who nothing will understand, rather than waving your arms about and getting in a tizz that no one is listening to you. The international banking system is need of reform, but until unilateral reform is gained, there will always been scandals. Until Switerzland, and other places reform, the system will never be perfect and clear. Plus of course, money laundering is getting ever more complex and nuanced, so regulators will always be playing catch up.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jun 5, 2015 13:51:18 GMT
1200 migrant workers (slaves) worked to death building the stadiums for the Qatar World Cup (so far). I think we can do without the hysteria, here, Murph. Let's have some facts. 1. They aren't slaves, these are economic migrants who, often on the basis of contracts they cannot read which would not be honoured if they could, have voluntarily indentured themselves to perform labour in a foreign country. I repeat this is simply because they want more money often to send it to their impoverished Pashtun or Philipino village to pay for medical or education charges or simply to provide their family with the luxury of one square meal a day. 2. Their passports are not confiscated. No. The local Qatari agent often has to protect their passport and his investment because their is no personal secure storage in the dormitory blocks they are generously provided with and locked into every night. 3. They are paid, stories of non-payment are simply untrue. However, with the best of intentions, it's not always possible for the busy Qatari contractor to fit all these activities into his busy day and sometimes payment is overlooked for a time. 4. "Worked to death" is frankly hyperbole. That would only apply if these descendants of our own PG Tips' happy pickers had been tricked into going to camps where they were systematically overworked and underfed, receiving no or scant remuneration until the weak succumbed to the stress and the unwary fell into the traps inadvertently left by the complete lack of any health and safety provisions. You make them sound like some sort of holocaust victims. 5. Heard the one about the Bangladeshi agricultural workers in Israel?
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 5, 2015 14:01:10 GMT
Why were the media not 'up in arms' about HSBC, Barclays, RBS, etc etc - allegations which are far more serious, involve illegal manipulations on a global scale involving far bigger sums of money? Why have they not demanded the imprisonment of the HSBC board or least their removal? When will Barclays be 'cleaned up'? Is football administration more important than the global financial system? They have been haven't they? I have read reams of coverage about the Mexican Cartels laundering money, the LIBOR scandal, the flash trading that caused the crash, etc. You couldn't turn on the news 5 or so years ago without hearing about the banks in one shape or another. Perhaps the issue is its old news, and ISIL terrorists are more pertinent issues.Corruption (legal or otherwise) is an inevitable global pandemic these days - always the very flower of neoliberalism - but why go after FIFA and why now? João Havelange anyone? The corruption of FIFA under his rule was an open secret - and he was president longer than Blatter. I have seen no plausible answer to these questions yet (spectacle isn't a big enough reason Paul). Simply, because there has not been enough burden of proof. FIFA is a closed organisation, and was run with an iron fist. Plus of course turkeys do not vote for Christmas - that worked for over 20 years. Blazer's arrogance caught up with him, and it opened the case.You want a story about FIFA? Here's one. 1200 migrant workers (slaves) worked to death building the stadiums for the Qatar World Cup (so far). Are the media 'up in the arms' about that? Of course not - a lonely article in the Washington Post feebly echoed by The Guardian is about all that was seen. The BBC have reported it both on their daily TV news, and online. It's been reported in at least the Times. It's also been reported on other media platforms. Reporters were arrested for deigning to visit migrants, interrogated and held without charge.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 16:16:10 GMT
1200 migrant workers (slaves) worked to death building the stadiums for the Qatar World Cup (so far). I think we can do without the hysteria, here, Murph. Let's have some facts. 1. They aren't slaves, these are economic migrants who, often on the basis of contracts they cannot read which would not be honoured if they could, have voluntarily indentured themselves to perform labour in a foreign country. I repeat this is simply because they want more money often to send it to their impoverished Pashtun or Philipino village to pay for medical or education charges or simply to provide their family with the luxury of one square meal a day. 2. Their passports are not confiscated. No. The local Qatari agent often has to protect their passport and his investment because their is no personal secure storage in the dormitory blocks they are generously provided with and locked into every night. 3. They are paid, stories of non-payment are simply untrue. However, with the best of intentions, it's not always possible for the busy Qatari contractor to fit all these activities into his busy day and sometimes payment is overlooked for a time. 4. "Worked to death" is frankly hyperbole. That would only apply if these descendants of our own PG Tips' happy pickers had been tricked into going to camps where they were systematically overworked and underfed, receiving no or scant remuneration until the weak succumbed to the stress and the unwary fell into the traps inadvertently left by the complete lack of any health and safety provisions. You make them sound like some sort of holocaust victims. 5. Heard the one about the Bangladeshi agricultural workers in Israel?
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/23/qatar-nepal-workers-world-cup-2022-death-toll-doha
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/18/qatar-world-cup-india-migrant-worker-deaths
www.ituc-csi.org/IMG/pdf/the_case_against_qatar_en_web170314.pdf
www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/04/15/staggering-number-of-workers-die-as-qatar-prepares-for-world-cup
for the onlookers...
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Post by oufcyellows on Jun 5, 2015 16:28:23 GMT
How's Ireland murph, settling in after the move ?
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Post by backonthecoupon on Jun 5, 2015 17:15:58 GMT
You sound like a Celtic fan with all these conspiracy theories murph
To be fair you have a point. These are uncertain times for football.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 18:11:27 GMT
You sound like a Celtic fan with all these conspiracy theories murph To be fair you have a point. These are uncertain times for football.
I don't have a conspiracy theory. With corporate power its very rarely an organised conspiracy - just an alignment of vested interests.
But as a sceptical observer of the media, I long ago concluded that the overall function of the corporate media is usually to distract - not inform.
I'm intrigued by the timing - the media's abrupt interest in FIFA all kicked off after Qatar got awarded the World Cup.
Oh Oh - I might have a conspiracy... musing. How about this folks?
Murph's conspiracy musing number 1.
Qatar is competing with Saudi Arabia to be a political player in the region and has been reaching out to other gulf states who are concerned about Saudi meddling on various issues.
Now Qatar getting the world cup is a huge boost in their desire to be more influential in the region - a demonstration of their growing political savvy and clout.
Saudi Arabia would not have been at all pleased by the success of the Qatari bid, particularly as they would have known it was a fiddle.
The brits weren't that chipper about it either - their bid was trounced and they ended up looking like total fools (prime minister, royalty and all)
Now the only way the Qatar win could be overturned would be if FIFA itself was torn asunder and the result investigated...
Perhaps the Saudi's asked the American's what the FBI had on FIFA....? The Americans ever eager to maintain good relations with a vital Middle East power were happy to go after Blatter and co.
Now Qatar will lose the world cup, the Saudi's will be happy, the Americans will be happy, the brits will be happy (and already happy to pitch England as the replacement host) - and the corporate media will talk up the corruption angle as a big game of 'look over here' - 'but not over here'.
Happy to help.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 18:43:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2015 9:20:17 GMT
I don't have no problem with Qatar or Russia hosting a world cup. I just have issue with how they have won the bids.
I was personally hoping that Australia would win the bid as that would be a fantastic place for the tournament.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2015 10:00:28 GMT
I don't have no problem with Qatar or Russia hosting a world cup. I just have issue with how they have won the bids. I was personally hoping that Australia would win the bid as that would be a fantastic place for the tournament. I don't think the U.S. will be keen on a Russian World Cup or one in Doha. and there is the FIFA vote on expelling Israel looming. And the Qatari bid ousted the U.S. bid of course... but I'm sure the FBI are above such things...
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Post by oufcyellows on Jun 6, 2015 10:04:04 GMT
So the U.S. Has stepped in to sort out what everyone in the world has known has been going on for years, but no one has done anything about. And it's a conspiracy ? Brilliant .
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Post by bigfella72 on Jun 6, 2015 10:06:01 GMT
I don't have no problem with Qatar or Russia hosting a world cup. I just have issue with how they have won the bids. I was personally hoping that Australia would win the bid as that would be a fantastic place for the tournament. Would be quality as it would give me an excuse to visit some relatives at the same time!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2015 11:04:07 GMT
I don't have no problem with Qatar or Russia hosting a world cup. I just have issue with how they have won the bids. I was personally hoping that Australia would win the bid as that would be a fantastic place for the tournament. Would be quality as it would give me an excuse to visit some relatives at the same time! Myself included. One month touring around the country for a world cup. Dream trip.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2015 11:06:25 GMT
I don't have no problem with Qatar or Russia hosting a world cup. I just have issue with how they have won the bids. I was personally hoping that Australia would win the bid as that would be a fantastic place for the tournament. I don't think the U.S. will be keen on a Russian World Cup or one in Doha. and there is the FIFA vote on expelling Israel looming. And the Qatari bid ousted the U.S. bid of course... but I'm sure the FBI are above such things... I don't think anyone would fancy it! It ousted the USA bid but illegally. Plus the Americans had it in 94! They have a different reason for not wanting them to have it but I don't like to mix politics and football
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 6, 2015 13:49:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2015 15:20:08 GMT
typical BBC - a media portal I loathe more than any other. It smudges the issue nicely which was its objective. The problem of the deaths of previously young fit and healthy migrants tricked into economic slavery in Qatar is under estimated (even the article admits that) but in line with its usual rigorous standards of journalism it hangs the misleading headline on a ridiculous comparison made by (a complicit) Indian government official who muddles the death rate amongst the migrants and the general population.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2015 15:32:42 GMT
So the U.S. Has stepped in to sort out what everyone in the world has known has been going on for years, but no one has done anything about. And it's a conspiracy ? Brilliant . If this has been known about for years then when can only wonder why the U.S. has waited so long. But its perfectly obvious why they have acted now - FIFA's policies were showing a geopolitical drift that was not in alignment with U.S. interests. So while FIFA's corruption is the (legitimate) excuse and provides handy camouflage, it is not the real reason behind it, which is the point I am making. If the U.S. cared about corruption then their jails would be full of bankers, financial executives, lobbyists and politicians. Nah, this is a power play and a worrying intrusion of U.S. power games into sport. But you are happy to believe what you read in the corporate media and they are all totally on message on this one. Even I believed it for a few hours.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jun 6, 2015 15:56:07 GMT
So the U.S. Has stepped in to sort out what everyone in the world has known has been going on for years, but no one has done anything about. And it's a conspiracy ? Brilliant . If this has been known about for years then when can only wonder why the U.S. has waited so long. But its perfectly obvious why they have acted now - FIFA's policies were showing a geopolitical drift that was not in alignment with U.S. interests. So while FIFA's corruption is the (legitimate) excuse and provides handy camouflage, it is not the real reason behind it, which is the point I am making. If the U.S. cared about corruption then their jails would be full of bankers, financial executives, lobbyists and politicians. Nah, this is a power play and a worrying intrusion of U.S. power games into sport. But you are happy to believe what you read in the corporate media and they are all totally on message on this one. Even I believed it for a few hours. I couldn't give a f*ck, who,what or why it's being sorted out. Just that at last Fifa has a genuine chance of being run in the interests of football rather than as a mafia type organisation. Any way we better all go grab our swords and Templar outfits, as your obviously off on a crusade again
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2015 16:43:23 GMT
If this has been known about for years then when can only wonder why the U.S. has waited so long. But its perfectly obvious why they have acted now - FIFA's policies were showing a geopolitical drift that was not in alignment with U.S. interests. So while FIFA's corruption is the (legitimate) excuse and provides handy camouflage, it is not the real reason behind it, which is the point I am making. If the U.S. cared about corruption then their jails would be full of bankers, financial executives, lobbyists and politicians. Nah, this is a power play and a worrying intrusion of U.S. power games into sport. But you are happy to believe what you read in the corporate media and they are all totally on message on this one. Even I believed it for a few hours. I couldn't give a f*ck, who,what or why it's being sorted out. Just that at last Fifa has a genuine chance of being run in the interests of football rather than as a mafia type organisation. Any way we better all go grab our swords and Templar outfits, as your obviously off on a crusade again
<cackles with laughter>
let me fix that for you.
FIFA can now be whipped into line with the prevailing interests of corporate power, the U.S. and its allies.
Corruption at FIFA has been an open secret for 40 years. Nobody cared until they started spreading the money and the baubles into places that the western powers don't approve of.
This is what David Cameron had to say about corruption at FIFA before the 2022 voting:
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/8164224/World-Cup-2018-Prime-Minister-David-Cameron-frustrated-by-BBC-documentary-screened-ahead-of-vote.html
he was furious with the BBC and Panorama for its investigation into FIFA prior to the bid - he lambasted the BBC's rare foray into public interest journalism as "unpatriotic". Since the bid was lost he has had a change of heart!
FIFA officials use tournaments and grant payments for crude electioneering - just like incumbent chancellors throwing us a tax cut before an election. Corruption is only an issue for the usual suspects when it works for someone else.
Do you not remember the story of how the English FA sent Mulberry handbags to the wives of the FIFA executives before the 2022 voting? Or that many of the bribes to FIFA officials went via UK offshore tax havens? Bit rich for David Cameron to demand transparency from FIFA at the G7, when his own nation sponsors the murky evasions used to prosecute it!
The U.S. via the FBI will try to do with FIFA whatever works for them - that is all we can be sure of at the moment. That might coincidentally be better for some nations - but I suspect my doubts are multiplied outside of the UEFA power bloc by many factors of ten.
Your faith in the flexing of U.S. 'soft power' and the corporate media is not without a degree of touching charm but is horribly misplaced.
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Post by oufcyellows on Jun 6, 2015 16:47:53 GMT
Again- could careless what the reasoning is. But the end result is a less corrupt (notice I don't say free) more in the interests of football organisation
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jun 6, 2015 19:52:08 GMT
I think that leaves open the question of what "more in the interests of football" means. I don't presume to have an answer, but I'm not convinced that the notion of taking money from whatever oligarchy (I'm thinking Russia, Qatar) would pay enormously over the odds for the honour and re-investing it in the 'developing world' (I'm thinking Africa & Asia) with clear bribery (which is not without precedent) is as bad as a club that restricts elite membership to an old school of past winners.
So what does "more in the interests of football" mean in practice?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jun 6, 2015 19:56:25 GMT
Maybe using 5m to help support grass roots development, rather than bribing an fa not to take legal action against them. Maybe having more than 3 people read the proposals of a serious bidder rather than making up your mind on the amount that lines your pocket. Maybe having a clear an open organisation rather than a dictatorship similar to North Korea.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Jun 6, 2015 21:48:08 GMT
I couldn't give a f*ck, who,what or why it's being sorted out. Just that at last Fifa has a genuine chance of being run in the interests of football rather than as a mafia type organisation. Any way we better all go grab our swords and Templar outfits, as your obviously off on a crusade again
<cackles with laughter>
let me fix that for you.
FIFA can now be whipped into line with the prevailing interests of corporate power, the U.S. and its allies.
Corruption at FIFA has been an open secret for 40 years. Nobody cared until they started spreading the money and the baubles into places that the western powers don't approve of.
This is what David Cameron had to say about corruption at FIFA before the 2022 voting:
www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/8164224/World-Cup-2018-Prime-Minister-David-Cameron-frustrated-by-BBC-documentary-screened-ahead-of-vote.html
he was furious with the BBC and Panorama for its investigation into FIFA prior to the bid - he lambasted the BBC's rare foray into public interest journalism as "unpatriotic". Since the bid was lost he has had a change of heart!
FIFA officials use tournaments and grant payments for crude electioneering - just like incumbent chancellors throwing us a tax cut before an election. Corruption is only an issue for the usual suspects when it works for someone else.
Do you not remember the story of how the English FA sent Mulberry handbags to the wives of the FIFA executives before the 2022 voting? Or that many of the bribes to FIFA officials went via UK offshore tax havens? Bit rich for David Cameron to demand transparency from FIFA at the G7, when his own nation sponsors the murky evasions used to prosecute it!
The U.S. via the FBI will try to do with FIFA whatever works for them - that is all we can be sure of at the moment. That might coincidentally be better for some nations - but I suspect my doubts are multiplied outside of the UEFA power bloc by many factors of ten.
Your faith in the flexing of U.S. 'soft power' and the corporate media is not without a degree of touching charm but is horribly misplaced.
How will the FBI merge FIFA into an organisation that works for them? Are you saying they will influence both who the 205 football federations vote for as president, and will select the new EXCO? How soon are they going to achieve this? Keeping in mind that it could be just 4 months until a new president is voted on. Is it possible that Russia are also using their influence to meld FIFA into their sort of organisation? Which corporate powers do you speak of that will whip FIFA into line? Would this be Gazprom or Coca Cola? Or external corporate entities such as PepsiCo or Apple? Or individuals such as the Bilderberg Group?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2015 22:33:32 GMT
Your faith in the flexing of U.S. 'soft power' and the corporate media is not without a degree of touching charm but is horribly misplaced.
How will the FBI merge FIFA into an organisation that works for them? Are you saying they will influence both who the 205 football federations vote for as president, and will select the new EXCO? How soon are they going to achieve this? Keeping in mind that it could be just 4 months until a new president is voted on. Is it possible that Russia are also using their influence to meld FIFA into their sort of organisation? Which corporate powers do you speak of that will whip FIFA into line? Would this be Gazprom or Coca Cola? Or external corporate entities such as PepsiCo or Apple? Or individuals such as the Bilderberg Group? nothing as direct as that - FIFA remains the worlds largest NGO and will continue much as before - but the U.S. has sent a clear message - we'll only leave you alone if you behave yourself. That is a textbook gameplay from the book of soft power. Good behaviour will mean anticipatory compliance within certain policy norms, Blatter and co. overreached themselves when they thumbed their noses at U.S. sensibilities. It would be hard to make FIFA a more corporate / cash dominated beast to be fair - so that part should be easy for them. A few scapegoats will be hauled before the media to maintain the façade that this is all about corruption and then back to a new normal. it will be interesting to see if the FBI goes after match rigging - which is surely in the files. U.S. regime change is usually an abject disaster for all concerned - i'll spare you the blood spattered list that goes back to the 1950's, but you never know this might be a change for the better. It would certainly be a first.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jun 7, 2015 8:57:02 GMT
Maybe using 5m to help support grass roots development, rather than bribing an fa not to take legal action against them. Maybe having more than 3 people read the proposals of a serious bidder rather than making up your mind on the amount that lines your pocket. Maybe having a clear an open organisation rather than a dictatorship similar to North Korea. And how would this actually benefit football?
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