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Post by manorlounger on Apr 9, 2017 18:03:18 GMT
At Walsall, on Saturday, the spectre of allocated seating raised it's ugly head again. Myself, my wife and a friend, all of, shall we say, mature years had purchased tickets well in advance and were looking forward to a day out followed by a meal with an overnight stay in Walsall.
On arrival at the ground we enquired if it was sit anywhere and were informed that it was not. "Sit where your ticket says to sit". So, we did, right behind the goal and right where the Ultras and other singers were assembling. This had already caused some concerns to other "mature" fans who joined us in discussing the fact that we were unlikely to be able to sit and watch. Some had already decided to risk sitting elsewhere and had gone. Their places were quickly occupied by more Ultras and others. In fact they numbered more than there were seats. A ratio of near to 3 to 1. We decided that we could not risk becoming part of this crowd and decided to move as well. We are not old farts and enjoy joining in the singing but on the fringe where we feel protected against the surges and general mayhem and, most importantly, can also sit and enjoy the game.
Now, what we think should happen is quite simple. As with other venues with allocated seating, we should be able to choose our allocated seat. Why are we not given this option? Why, if there are say for example 1000 seats and 1000 tickets sold, is it necessary to dictate where folk sit/stand? Wembley is a perfect demonstration of how this can be organised. Certain blocks were designated for singers etc, others for family and so on.
On Saturday we saw many who simply could not see the game because others had stood up in front of them, our view was restricted and so we had to stand. Some who attend matches are not so able bodied and find it impossible to stand for the entire game, why should they be penalised by this archaic system of allocated but not chosen seating?
If clubs wish to attract more to attend then they need to start working towards a properly organised distribution of tickets. I know all to well from discussions with the OUFC ticket office that they have no prior knowledge of seating arrangements at other clubs and can only distribute tickets as they can. Information needs to be shared and ticket purchasers given the benefit of that information or, the allocated seating ruling needs to be recognised as impractical and scrapped.
Please note, I am not criticising the Ultras for disregarding the allocated seating if anything they are, by flouting the ruling, showing that it has no place in where we sit and if only we could have that agreed with the stewards then we would have made a major step forward. As it was on Saturday, the stewards showed themselves up as mindless thugs and lacking in any understanding of crowd control.
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Post by oldham on Apr 9, 2017 18:20:49 GMT
At Walsall, on Saturday, the spectre of allocated seating raised it's ugly head again. Myself, my wife and a friend, all of, shall we say, mature years had purchased tickets well in advance and were looking forward to a day out followed by a meal with an overnight stay in Walsall. On arrival at the ground we enquired if it was sit anywhere and were informed that it was not. "Sit where your ticket says to sit". So, we did, right behind the goal and right where the Ultras and other singers were assembling. This had already caused some concerns to other "mature" fans who joined us in discussing the fact that we were unlikely to be able to sit and watch. Some had already decided to risk sitting elsewhere and had gone. Their places were quickly occupied by more Ultras and others. In fact they numbered more than there were seats. A ratio of near to 3 to 1. We decided that we could not risk becoming part of this crowd and decided to move as well. We are not old farts and enjoy joining in the singing but on the fringe where we feel protected against the surges and general mayhem and, most importantly, can also sit and enjoy the game. Now, what we think should happen is quite simple. As with other venues with allocated seating, we should be able to choose our allocated seat. Why are we not given this option? Why, if there are say for example 1000 seats and 1000 tickets sold, is it necessary to dictate where folk sit/stand? Wembley is a perfect demonstration of how this can be organised. Certain blocks were designated for singers etc, others for family and so on. On Saturday we saw many who simply could not see the game because others had stood up in front of them, our view was restricted and so we had to stand. Some who attend matches are not so able bodied and find it impossible to stand for the entire game, why should they be penalised by this archaic system of allocated but not chosen seating? If clubs wish to attract more to attend then they need to start working towards a properly organised distribution of tickets. I know all to well from discussions with the OUFC ticket office that they have no prior knowledge of seating arrangements at other clubs and can only distribute tickets as they can. Information needs to be shared and ticket purchasers given the benefit of that information or, the allocated seating ruling needs to be recognised as impractical and scrapped. Please note, I am not criticising the Ultras for disregarding the allocated seating if anything they are, by flouting the ruling, showing that it has no place in where we sit and if only we could have that agreed with the stewards then we would have made a major step forward. As it was on Saturday, the stewards showed themselves up as mindless thugs and lacking in any understanding of crowd control. I offered a "mature" couple the chance to move to spare seats in front of me after the episode with the stewards but the chap said no because "we've paid for these seats", wasn't you was it mate?
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Post by manorlounger on Apr 9, 2017 18:37:39 GMT
At Walsall, on Saturday, the spectre of allocated seating raised it's ugly head again. Myself, my wife and a friend, all of, shall we say, mature years had purchased tickets well in advance and were looking forward to a day out followed by a meal with an overnight stay in Walsall. On arrival at the ground we enquired if it was sit anywhere and were informed that it was not. "Sit where your ticket says to sit". So, we did, right behind the goal and right where the Ultras and other singers were assembling. This had already caused some concerns to other "mature" fans who joined us in discussing the fact that we were unlikely to be able to sit and watch. Some had already decided to risk sitting elsewhere and had gone. Their places were quickly occupied by more Ultras and others. In fact they numbered more than there were seats. A ratio of near to 3 to 1. We decided that we could not risk becoming part of this crowd and decided to move as well. We are not old farts and enjoy joining in the singing but on the fringe where we feel protected against the surges and general mayhem and, most importantly, can also sit and enjoy the game. Now, what we think should happen is quite simple. As with other venues with allocated seating, we should be able to choose our allocated seat. Why are we not given this option? Why, if there are say for example 1000 seats and 1000 tickets sold, is it necessary to dictate where folk sit/stand? Wembley is a perfect demonstration of how this can be organised. Certain blocks were designated for singers etc, others for family and so on. On Saturday we saw many who simply could not see the game because others had stood up in front of them, our view was restricted and so we had to stand. Some who attend matches are not so able bodied and find it impossible to stand for the entire game, why should they be penalised by this archaic system of allocated but not chosen seating? If clubs wish to attract more to attend then they need to start working towards a properly organised distribution of tickets. I know all to well from discussions with the OUFC ticket office that they have no prior knowledge of seating arrangements at other clubs and can only distribute tickets as they can. Information needs to be shared and ticket purchasers given the benefit of that information or, the allocated seating ruling needs to be recognised as impractical and scrapped. Please note, I am not criticising the Ultras for disregarding the allocated seating if anything they are, by flouting the ruling, showing that it has no place in where we sit and if only we could have that agreed with the stewards then we would have made a major step forward. As it was on Saturday, the stewards showed themselves up as mindless thugs and lacking in any understanding of crowd control. I offered a "mature" couple the chance to move to spare seats in front of me after the episode with the stewards but the chap said no because "we've paid for these seats", wasn't you was it mate? No, we had already moved by then. I suppose I ought to clarify "mature". I'm 61 and my wife will be 60 tomorrow, our friend is late 50s. We are happy to stand usually but every once in a while have to admit that a sit down would be welcome! Sounds old when I put it like that! Very nice to know that there are folk out there who do think of others. I am raising a glass to you now! But I bet that couple would have appreciated being able to choose where they were sitting.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Apr 9, 2017 18:55:42 GMT
I think one problem was that the 'Ultras' decided to go much lower down than they normally do. Therefore everyone behind them had to stand up. Personally this doesn't bother me, but then I'm not quite knackered enough yet to have to sit down. I sympathise with those that are and couldn't do so. If the young lads want to stand, they should go to the back. If they say that there was no space there, then they should have got there earlier and 'claimed' that space. I suspect it would be difficult for the club to section people off by singers/standers and sitters for away games and that is presuming that people would stick by what they were allocated. Last minute purchases by 'standers' of 'sitting' seats if there were no 'standing' seats left would muck it up anyway.
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Post by manorlounger on Apr 9, 2017 19:18:59 GMT
I think one problem was that the 'Ultras' decided to go much lower down than they normally do. Therefore everyone behind them had to stand up. Personally this doesn't bother me, but then I'm not quite knackered enough yet to have to sit down. I sympathise with those that are and couldn't do so. If the young lads want to stand, they should go to the back. If they say that there was no space there, then they should have got there earlier and 'claimed' that space. I suspect it would be difficult for the club to section people off by singers/standers and sitters for away games and that is presuming that people would stick by what they were allocated. Last minute purchases by 'standers' of 'sitting' seats if there were no 'standing' seats left would muck it up anyway. All very true and sensible. That being the case then there is also a case for doing away with allocated seating all together. From what I have seen at so many away games, the singers always congregate together regardless of steward's directions (with the exception of MK Dons!) Let's accept that and simply give everyone else the same privilege, buy a ticket and sit where you want. Or, as I would prefer, give everyone the opportunity to buy the seat that they would prefer. it's what happens at most normal venues, why not football grounds?
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Post by CheltenhamYellow on Apr 10, 2017 6:10:14 GMT
At Walsall, on Saturday, the spectre of allocated seating raised it's ugly head again. Myself, my wife and a friend, all of, shall we say, mature years had purchased tickets well in advance and were looking forward to a day out followed by a meal with an overnight stay in Walsall. On arrival at the ground we enquired if it was sit anywhere and were informed that it was not. "Sit where your ticket says to sit". So, we did, right behind the goal and right where the Ultras and other singers were assembling. This had already caused some concerns to other "mature" fans who joined us in discussing the fact that we were unlikely to be able to sit and watch. Some had already decided to risk sitting elsewhere and had gone. Their places were quickly occupied by more Ultras and others. In fact they numbered more than there were seats. A ratio of near to 3 to 1. We decided that we could not risk becoming part of this crowd and decided to move as well. We are not old farts and enjoy joining in the singing but on the fringe where we feel protected against the surges and general mayhem and, most importantly, can also sit and enjoy the game. Now, what we think should happen is quite simple. As with other venues with allocated seating, we should be able to choose our allocated seat. Why are we not given this option? Why, if there are say for example 1000 seats and 1000 tickets sold, is it necessary to dictate where folk sit/stand? Wembley is a perfect demonstration of how this can be organised. Certain blocks were designated for singers etc, others for family and so on. On Saturday we saw many who simply could not see the game because others had stood up in front of them, our view was restricted and so we had to stand. Some who attend matches are not so able bodied and find it impossible to stand for the entire game, why should they be penalised by this archaic system of allocated but not chosen seating? If clubs wish to attract more to attend then they need to start working towards a properly organised distribution of tickets. I know all to well from discussions with the OUFC ticket office that they have no prior knowledge of seating arrangements at other clubs and can only distribute tickets as they can. Information needs to be shared and ticket purchasers given the benefit of that information or, the allocated seating ruling needs to be recognised as impractical and scrapped. Please note, I am not criticising the Ultras for disregarding the allocated seating if anything they are, by flouting the ruling, showing that it has no place in where we sit and if only we could have that agreed with the stewards then we would have made a major step forward. As it was on Saturday, the stewards showed themselves up as mindless thugs and lacking in any understanding of crowd control. I offered a "mature" couple the chance to move to spare seats in front of me after the episode with the stewards but the chap said no because "we've paid for these seats", wasn't you was it mate? That was me, I think! I refuse to be bullied, by Ultras or anyone else, into moving to seats elsewhere on principal. We stayed where we were and tolerated the guys in front and beside us. Why should we have to slope off to alternative seats? Thank you for the offer, though, it was appreciated.
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Post by oldham on Apr 10, 2017 7:26:22 GMT
I offered a "mature" couple the chance to move to spare seats in front of me after the episode with the stewards but the chap said no because "we've paid for these seats", wasn't you was it mate? That was me, I think! I refuse to be bullied, by Ultras or anyone else, into moving to seats elsewhere on principal. We stayed where we were and tolerated the guys in front and beside us. Why should we have to slope off to alternative seats? Thank you for the offer, though, it was appreciated. If it was me I was literally across the gangway from you and you are welcome. Hope you and your other half enjoyed the day 👍
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Post by Pete Burrett on Apr 10, 2017 8:32:01 GMT
I offered a "mature" couple the chance to move to spare seats in front of me after the episode with the stewards but the chap said no because "we've paid for these seats", wasn't you was it mate? That was me, I think! I refuse to be bullied, by Ultras or anyone else, into moving to seats elsewhere on principal. We stayed where we were and tolerated the guys in front and beside us. Why should we have to slope off to alternative seats? Thank you for the offer, though, it was appreciated. I might be missing your point her Oxfox, so please tell me if I am. If you'd chosen specific seats in advance to afford yourself the best view, I could understand why you wouldn't want to move on principle. But you didn't. You were, presumably, given random seats by the ticket office at Walsall or Oxford. Under the circumstances I can't see how taking other seats that overcame your viewing problem would have trampled on your principles, or could have been construed as giving in to 'bullying'. You did indeed 'pay for your seats', but were they really the perfect seats? Personal view? Power to the singers! Let them congregate where they want to get an atmosphere going. If people feel the need to move as a result, there are usually plenty of other seats to choose from. Sell outs are rare.
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Post by McVicar on Apr 10, 2017 8:48:32 GMT
I can see both sides, and I think that is part of the problem - on the one hand yes you do want the singers to congregate together and make the best atmosphere possible. On the other hand however, I can see that some people might feel uncomfortable moving elsewhere as a result, not necessarily because of the location of the new seat, but the possibility of THAT seat owner then turning up and insisting on sitting in their seat. OK they can always move again but also where it is a large away crowd this may not always be possible.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Apr 10, 2017 8:53:57 GMT
I can see both sides, and I think that is part of the problem - on the one hand yes you do want the singers to congregate together and make the best atmosphere possible. On the other hand however, I can see that some people might feel uncomfortable moving elsewhere as a result, not necessarily because of the location of the new seat, but the possibility of THAT seat owner then turning up and insisting on sitting in their seat. OK they can always move again but also where it is a large away crowd this may not always be possible. Yes, those are good, practical considerations. It's where there are no apparent practical considerations but just 'matters of principle' that confound me. Sometimes its just people digging their heels in for no real reason. I've been asked to move at a northern away match where we had 1,500 seats but only 150 Yellows present. It made no sense.
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Post by Eaststandboy on Apr 10, 2017 9:19:26 GMT
I think even with being able to select your seats, no one would keep to them. The Ultras like to congregate wherever/however they can.
Sitting where you want saves a lot of problems, but not for those who need to sit due to medical problems.
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Post by SteMerritt on Apr 10, 2017 9:20:30 GMT
On the other hand however, I can see that some people might feel uncomfortable moving elsewhere as a result, not necessarily because of the location of the new seat, but the possibility of THAT seat owner then turning up and insisting on sitting in their seat. OK they can always move again but also where it is a large away crowd this may not always be possible. Of course those who want to congregate in a singing section will have their own tickets, surely a bit of common sense can prevail... Singers, ensure you buy tickets in groups of 2 or 3, then if you are asking someone to move to get an atmosphere going, be polite, say what you are doing, and offer a swap with your own tickets. Then no 'forward-chain' of people being displaced. Non-Singers, if you can move and are presented with a swap seat, then take it, there isn't usually a massive difference in view, and we may get a better atmosphere inspiring the team to a better performance. Everyone wins.
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 10, 2017 9:27:36 GMT
Maybe the answer is for the ultras singers to congregate towards one end rather than behind the goal, the end blocks are normally the last to fill up anyway. Don't think it's even a case of singers go to the back, as I believe the ultras would prefer to be at front leading the singing and geeing the crowd.
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Post by manorlounger on Apr 10, 2017 10:07:48 GMT
The major point has been missed. I want to buy a seat in a section/area/block where I am both comfortable and can enjoy the game. At the present time you pays your money and you gets a ticket, where that seat will be, who knows? I want to avoid any discussion or inconvenience and I'd bet that the singers would also rather know that they have an ideal position from which to do their thing. It may not be practical for every club to supply a seating plan but specific blocks could be designated and sold accordingly. We take a lot of support on the road and it should follow that we get some concessions from the home clubs in order to avoid the confrontations with stewards over who sits where. One other point to bear in mind, it may not be just a case of preference, consider the less able bodied and those using walking aids or wheelchairs. I heard that at Walsall there was no provision for the disabled in the toilets. I thought that was now mandatory?
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Post by oufcgav on Apr 10, 2017 11:23:29 GMT
Clubs don't generally like unreserved seating as it reduces the capacity of the stand. For away games, having the ability to choose individual seats is probably not practical - but surely organising blocks or sections so that the ultras (and other like-minded) can gather (and still buy tickets seperately) and be seperate from those who want to sit is not too hard?
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Post by McVicar on Apr 10, 2017 11:33:03 GMT
Why does unreserved seating reduce the capacity of the stand?
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Post by oxfordyankee on Apr 10, 2017 12:02:20 GMT
Why does unreserved seating reduce the capacity of the stand? Because people leave gaps of one or two seats, which, particularly when people stand, become impossible to see. This happened at NTFC last year, where a hundred or so of us had to stand at the sides of the stands as seats could not be seen. It's normally about a 10% reduction.
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Post by upthecowboys on Apr 10, 2017 12:20:42 GMT
Why does unreserved seating reduce the capacity of the stand? Don't think it is the choice of clubs, think there is some rule in place that tells clubs that they have to sell less tickets if they make it unreserved. Shouldn't beyond the realms of possibility for clubs to reserve sections / back couple of rows for singers etc
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Post by essexyellows on Apr 10, 2017 13:41:57 GMT
I never knew it was allocated seating........ arrived in Brum far too early. By the second half I couldn`t remember where my first half "space" was so just filled a gap.... apologies to anyone nearby! If I`m not at the back then I will always ask if the person behind minds if I stand 9/10 they don`t mind and if they do I move... not rocket science is it?
However when the "noisy boys" have sniffed a few too many tins and take up residence at the front and "fudge everyone else" then things will get predictably messy.
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Post by CheltenhamYellow on Apr 10, 2017 14:33:36 GMT
I never knew it was allocated seating........ arrived in Brum far too early. By the second half I couldn`t remember where my first half "space" was so just filled a gap.... apologies to anyone nearby! If I`m not at the back then I will always ask if the person behind minds if I stand 9/10 they don`t mind and if they do I move... not rocket science is it? However when the "noisy boys" have sniffed a few too many tins and take up residence at the front and "fudge everyone else" then things will get predictably messy. ...... which they did.
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Post by wizzard on Apr 10, 2017 15:01:19 GMT
So what we need is a return to safe standing,sitters sit,standers stand no problem.
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Post by Barts on Apr 10, 2017 19:38:21 GMT
Why can't the ultras just speak to oufc in the weeks leading up to the games, tell them how many tickets they want per game, oufc put how ever many to one side and then they sit in those seats.
Not everyone wants to stand during a game and should be afforded the respect by others not to have too move because the 'ultras' have chosen to stand in front or around them. I agree its ok at home games because the general support have two other stands to choose from, but away games are different when there is only one stand.
I enjoy what the 'ultras' bring to the atmosphere at games, but they need to work with the club to find a resolution so that everybody can enjoy the day.
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 10, 2017 19:41:24 GMT
Are you suggesting the ultras get reserved or first dibs on away tickets ?
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Post by Barts on Apr 10, 2017 19:47:11 GMT
Are you suggesting the ultras get reserved or first dibs on away tickets ? Assuming the vast majority of them are season ticket holders, I cant see a problem with it. I'm sure they don't all go to all away games so the vast majority of games it'll work out. At least that way all fans know where the ultras will be and can then choose whether or not to sit by them. Its all about finding a happy medium.
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 10, 2017 19:51:08 GMT
I'm not sure that would work, or go down well really. Why prioritise 1 season ticket holder over another.
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Post by Barts on Apr 10, 2017 20:17:19 GMT
I'm not sure that would work, or go down well really. Why prioritise 1 season ticket holder over another. By the sound of it the ultras congregating where they choose isn't going down well either. If you want to maximise their impact at away games, let them choose where to sit before the game and go from there. How many times have we sold out away games this year? Swindon away? That's about it. Not a criticism btw its just we are now playing in bigger grounds. Its a win, win. They get to congregate with no one complaining and everybody else gets to choose if they want to be near them or not.
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Post by grenobleroad on Apr 10, 2017 20:25:59 GMT
Are you suggesting the ultras get reserved or first dibs on away tickets ? Assuming the vast majority of them are season ticket holders, I cant see a problem with it. I'm sure they don't all go to all away games so the vast majority of games it'll work out. At least that way all fans know where the ultras will be and can then choose whether or not to sit by them. Its all about finding a happy medium. Reckon reserving the first two rows at games for seating would be a better option when purchasing away tickets so people who want to sit can. If they can do that or not I'm not so sure but I can appreciate it must be a pain if you struggle to stand and are forced to.
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 10, 2017 20:38:07 GMT
I'm not sure that would work, or go down well really. Why prioritise 1 season ticket holder over another. By the sound of it the ultras congregating where they choose isn't going down well either. If you want to maximise their impact at away games, let them choose where to sit before the game and go from there. How many times have we sold out away games this year? Swindon away? That's about it. Not a criticism btw its just we are now playing in bigger grounds. Its a win, win. They get to congregate with no one complaining and everybody else gets to choose if they want to be near them or not. Not really. As you only get to choose if you want to be near them or not if u can pick you're seat! Which is what manorlounger suggested in the first place. And it still won't rule out some people having to stand or move. Like someone else said until safe standing areas are introduced I can't see you can solve the problem. Clubs ain't going to go to unreserved seating due to the lost revenue. And I can't see giving one section of the fan base, priority will ever work. You could get fans that go to every away game missing out just because they don't sing and seats have been reserved for singers. It all comes down to a bit of common sense and respect for what other fans want. If you wanna stand and there is someone behind who wants to sit- swap seats Also it not just ultras or even them at all, they don't actually number that many, people who stand at football number many more so it's quite likely that it's nothing to do with any specific group , as they have said previously that they have moved or sat down if it's affecting someone else. All there for the same reason, just enjoy it differently.
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 10, 2017 20:40:42 GMT
Assuming the vast majority of them are season ticket holders, I cant see a problem with it. I'm sure they don't all go to all away games so the vast majority of games it'll work out. At least that way all fans know where the ultras will be and can then choose whether or not to sit by them. Its all about finding a happy medium. Reckon reserving the first two rows at games for seating would be a better option when purchasing away tickets so people who want to sit can. If they can do that or not I'm not so sure but I can appreciate it must be a pain if you struggle to stand and are forced to. It's difficult though isn't it, you look at the east stand on a normal game most of the front seats are empty, because you get a better view further up the stand. Will people accept a worse view just so they can sit down in an all seater stadium ?
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Post by Barts on Apr 10, 2017 21:00:01 GMT
By the sound of it the ultras congregating where they choose isn't going down well either. If you want to maximise their impact at away games, let them choose where to sit before the game and go from there. How many times have we sold out away games this year? Swindon away? That's about it. Not a criticism btw its just we are now playing in bigger grounds. Its a win, win. They get to congregate with no one complaining and everybody else gets to choose if they want to be near them or not. Not really. As you only get to choose if you want to be near them or not if u can pick you're seat! Which is what manorlounger suggested in the first place. And it still won't rule out some people having to stand or move. Like someone else said until safe standing areas are introduced I can't see you can solve the problem. Clubs ain't going to go to unreserved seating due to the lost revenue. And I can't see giving one section of the fan base, priority will ever work. You could get fans that go to every away game missing out just because they don't sing and seats have been reserved for singers. It all comes down to a bit of common sense and respect for what other fans want. If you wanna stand and there is someone behind who wants to sit- swap seats But you've kind of answered your own point. It isn't unreserved seating. Its just a bit of give and take on both sides. My dad doesn't go to away games anymore because people in front of him at quite a few games wouldn't sit down, he's made his choice, but it pisses me off that he's felt he's had to make that choice. Now I'm not saying everyone should have to sit down, but at the same time why should someone who gets to the ground early to take there seat, have too move a few minutes before the kick off because other fans come in and stand in front or around them blocking there view.
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