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Post by Jem on Apr 3, 2017 9:20:42 GMT
Hi all
On the 11th April the EFL will meet to discuss (and maybe agree) the format for next seasons Trophy competition.
Along with Supporters Trusts and Groups around the country, we have the opportunity to lobby on behalf of fans and try and represent views/concerns and ideas.
Your thoughts would be very welcome ASAP!
We'll be making the club aware of this thread so that they can also view your comments 'live', rather than just waiting for a consolidated report.
Cheers!
Jem
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Post by Pete Burrett on Apr 3, 2017 9:30:11 GMT
Very obvious response Jem, but no B teams please, for all the reasons discussed at length on here and elsewhere! Extend the competition to the National League - even National League N & S - if numbers are needed, but first teams only.
If B teams continue to infiltrate our game, their squads will get stronger and stronger and in ten years time the Championship will be stuffed full of them.
I see little excitement in playing Chelsea's under-18s or, in years to come, Chelsea's genuine reserve team. I'd rather play against Stockport County or Oxford City - real clubs with real support.
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Post by saddletramp on Apr 3, 2017 9:30:57 GMT
When we get to Wembley next season,could we please have the other end.
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Post by unification on Apr 3, 2017 9:42:19 GMT
Thanks for this opportunity, Jem.
I think I speak for many of football supporters of sides in Leagues 1 and 2 that the ‘experiment’ with U21/U23/Development sides must not continue.
I could reel off a number of suggestions to keep the competition alive – invitational Conference sides, cash incentives for playing homegrown academy players, 3-team group stages where the each sides plays each other once with the final match is only played if the outcome is meaningful meaning no dead rubbers, area finals played on a Saturday at a neutral ground – but PL/Championship sides are not the answer to what is a unique opportunity for League 1 and 2 sides to play at Wembley.
That said, I don’t think the fans’ opinion matters one jot to Shaun Harvey. His comments surrounding the final seemed totally uncaring towards the backlash it had received and he appeared to justify the ‘success’ of the competition based on a large crowd at Wembley to watch two League 1 sides in the final. What would have the crowd been had it been Shrewsbury vs Swansea U23s? He’s said he wants to attract Manchester United, Liverpool et al next year already so his mind appears to have been made up already as the cheque from the PL is once again just waiting to be signed. The only crumb of comfort I can see from the tournament this year is the increased prize money, but after the drop in attendance revenue the actual figure that sides have received overall is still fairly paltry.
Here’s my message to him – leave the Football League Trophy alone. If the PL want to blood their youngsters (or internationals returning from injury), that’s their concern and not the EFL’s – loan them out, enhance the PL2 they currently have going, don’t hoard so many players in the first place. They chose to be a separate entity in 1992 and that’s how they should be. The EFL should fight back and as members of that, that’s what I want Oxford United to do.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Apr 3, 2017 9:57:36 GMT
Following on from saddletramp's post - would it be possible to have that part of Wembley half-timbered so that the gentry who follow us to that sacrosanct venue son't feel uncomfortable? Might get a peep out of them in that case.
Also, if we're having B-teams who oh why can't we have ladies teams? It's only fair to give the gels a go from time to time as Oscar Wilde himself used to say. Here's hoping this thread descends into a slavering perv-fest about short shorts and shocked responses from the sandal-wearers under their own foam-mouthed leader the pervy reverend Burrett.
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Post by SteMerritt on Apr 3, 2017 10:00:50 GMT
It is an insult to supporters of lower-league clubs that this happened in the first place, let alone be expanded for a second season. The fact that our club voted in favour as well... This must not happen again, there was no benefit to young players, no benefit to the England team.
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Post by Mark on Apr 3, 2017 10:06:48 GMT
/photo/1 seems like a good idea.
It's clear that fans don't want to see our first team playing the invited teams and so the club should vote against any format involving them.
So then I believe without the invited teams, the prize money will go down significantly without the Premier League funding, and the tournament will revert to one in which clubs have little incentive to progress in, until at least the semi-final stage when there is a rare chance to play at Wembley. Clubs and fans didn't really care much for the tin-pot trophy prior to last year, and there is an argument that it has affected our league performance too this season.
Also I don't think the "invited" clubs were particularly bothered either, notably as some big names turned down the invite, and the supposed benefit of developing young english players was negated by playing young foreign players, or much older fringe players.
Instead the EPL and championship clubs I think prefer the opportunity to send players out on six month loans, whilst still being available for U-23 games. eg McAleny, Martinez, Roberts.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Apr 3, 2017 10:21:01 GMT
Following on from saddletramp's post - would it be possible to have that part of Wembley half-timbered so that the gentry who follow us to that sacrosanct venue son't feel uncomfortable? Might get a peep out of them in that case. Also, if we're having B-teams who oh why can't we have ladies teams? It's only fair to give the gels a go from time to time as Oscar Wilde himself used to say. Here's hoping this thread descends into a slavering perv-fest about short shorts and shocked responses from the sandal-wearers under their own foam-mouthed leader the pervy reverend Burrett. No place for women in football. At all. Says so in the bible.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Apr 3, 2017 10:27:43 GMT
Good point. Sacrosanct word of god, the bible. You'll know whether that ranks above or below the EFL regulations, as an officer in the army of the lord (not Wilder, the bible one).
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Post by horseman on Apr 3, 2017 10:29:50 GMT
Just scrap the whole competition,league, league cup and f.a cup are enough and the majority are not interested unless their club reaches wembley. Maybe OUR club should focus on how to attract those who attend wembley to attend league games on a regular basis and perhaps ask those who only pop along for wembley why they don't go to league games.
if there must be a pointless competition like this, then have a straight knockout format rather than enforce more games through a farcial league system.
As for suggestions to invite national league clubs let's get real who really will be bothered to watch braintree etc when they cannot even turn up for normal league one games.
When out of the league what we would give for matches against bolton sheff utd etc yet people didn't turn up as in many cases because they preferred a day out at wembley.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Apr 3, 2017 10:48:44 GMT
No b-teams, no selection restrictions (so that teams can play their youngsters = all 11 if they want), straight knockout - no league stage, no silly bonus point penalty nonsense, add in the conference clubs if numbers are needed. If that's not possible, scrap it. I know we have earned decent money from it two years in a row, but the extra games have probably derailed our league campaign this time.
I didn't bother with the competition this year apart from (rather guiltily and shamefully) being tempted to go to Wembley (wish I hadn't, hated much of the whole day). The programme notes by that numpty Harvey were the last straw though - I will actively campaign against the whole tawdry affair next year if it includes 'B' teams, under 23s or anything like it and I would hope (as a member) that OxVox would do the same.
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Post by oxfordyankee on Apr 3, 2017 10:50:25 GMT
Re: Harvey
It must be remembered that he has no say in the decision. If B-Teams are still present next season, then it will be the clubs that chose that direction.
As the CEO, he will have objectives set for him by the EFL Board. I suspect that those will be structural, operational and financial and it's his job as CEO to deliver against them. The financial goal is the important, here. With JPT ending their sponsorship, he was left with a problem that needed solving, so he went to the biggest game in town, the PL, for the budget deficit filling mullah. Don't let the FL's board off the hook, though. They either agreed to his idea or they told him to do it. Either way, SH did not act alone.
Remember, we got here not because of him, but due to the needs of the member clubs for that money. That need won't have vanished.
The boycott felt good to some but it really didn't affect the clubs financially. All that can be gained by the efforts of the boycotters is that we change the vote of our own club as we have zero influence on any other club.; that is all we can do. From our perspective, that seems to have been achieved.
If the PL want it to continue, it will. Their resources are coveted greatly by the FL's members and if they put enough on the table, the boycott will be ignored. The money is just too large to ignore.
The best hope is that the PL see little value and cease their investment.
Harvey seems a fairly unpleasant man, but he has no power in the outcome. Influence, yes. He can sell this to the PL and aim for more money, but he has no decision making power.
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Post by ox4eva on Apr 3, 2017 11:47:17 GMT
No B teams!
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Post by backonthecoupon on Apr 3, 2017 11:56:02 GMT
I would like to see the Trophy continue but not with premier league B teams.
In fact I would rather there was no Trophy at all than a competition with B teams again. If it cant be made to work financially for the clubs then scrap it and focus on maximising the core offering.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Apr 3, 2017 12:34:50 GMT
I would ask the EFL firstly to organise whatever they deem appropriate, up front and in a consistent manner. One of the most embarrassing things about this year has how unbelievably disorganised the tournament has been, and how it reflects onto the EFL and the clubs within it, when for example, that the format of the final was still being decided on a few days before it was held.
Secondly, if they want the tournament to be about developing young players, then don't punish teams that want to develop their own players. Perhaps refocus the tournament so that league clubs use it as a platform to develop their U23 players - for us players like Sam Long, Stevens, etc - so they get a chance.
Thirdly, re-evaluate when the tournament is held. Does it need to be held over 6+ months? Can it be made an autumn tournament or a L1 vs L2 tournament? Or only have teams in it who go out of the 1st round of the league cup?
Is it acceptable that a L1 team who wants to do well in all cups will play over 60 games in a season?
And finally. No B Teams.
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Post by nottsyellow on Apr 3, 2017 18:03:21 GMT
Notts Co are doing a survey of their fans on the subject. If you access their website and news item headed up "SLO survey" from 5 days ago then you can complete the survey, no password, no fan number required any person can complete it, it only takes a minute. Well worth it, as every club votes could make a huge difference. Apparently Plymouth and Carlisle have also done a survey where anyone can access it and complete.
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Apr 3, 2017 18:41:06 GMT
No B Teams; give clubs the right to field the players they deem suitable and acceptable to represent them at any given time. As long as a player has a pro contract it's nobody's business if they played the last match in the league, or will play the next etc - they should be allowed to do their job when called upon by their employer. Don't see the big clubs getting battered like we do for not talking the FA and League Cups seriously enough.
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Post by Toeby on Apr 3, 2017 18:54:33 GMT
So many points on here that I agree with. I haven't got much to add but I'm posting because the club will be viewing this thread, so the more posts the better.
No under 23 teams.
No bending over for Premier League money. They have opportunities to play their kids. It's not the football league's problem to solve.
I think I can live with the group stages. Make the games local so fans don't have to travel far midweek though.
No sanctions on teams for fielding their youngsters.
Oh and again, no under 23 teams. No B teams. No under 21 teams. No teams from above League 1. People aren't moaning because they don't like change, we're moaning because we're worried about the future of our clubs.
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Post by SteMerritt on Apr 4, 2017 7:48:20 GMT
Is there anyone on here who is in favour of B Teams in the tournament? If so, care to stick your head above the parapet and give some reasons why?
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Post by Marked Ox on Apr 4, 2017 9:41:21 GMT
No B teams, revert back to Lg1/Lg2 teams. The person who campaigns about the FA Cup has some interesting ideas.
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 4, 2017 9:43:50 GMT
Put the comp back to what is was or scrap it.
Reinstate the reserves leagues. Using the prem money to help subsidise the costs. Giving all under 23s the chance to play competitive matches along side pros coming back from injury or needing game time . Benefits prem youngsters as well as giving lower clubs the chance to develop their own youth and help keep squads like our fit when not playing first team
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Post by CheltenhamYellow on Apr 4, 2017 11:40:12 GMT
No b-teams, no selection restrictions (so that teams can play their youngsters = all 11 if they want), straight knockout - no league stage, no silly bonus point penalty nonsense, add in the conference clubs if numbers are needed. If that's not possible, scrap it. I know we have earned decent money from it two years in a row, but the extra games have probably derailed our league campaign this time. I didn't bother with the competition this year apart from (rather guiltily and shamefully) being tempted to go to Wembley (wish I hadn't, hated much of the whole day). The programme notes by that numpty Harvey were the last straw though - I will actively campaign against the whole tawdry affair next year if it includes 'B' teams, under 23s or anything like it and I would hope (as a member) that OxVox would do the same. THIS. EXACTLY.
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Post by unification on Apr 4, 2017 12:01:26 GMT
Put the comp back to what is was or scrap it. Reinstate the reserves leagues. Using the prem money to help subsidise the costs. Giving all under 23s the chance to play competitive matches along side pros coming back from injury or needing game time . Benefits prem youngsters as well as giving lower clubs the chance to develop their own youth and help keep squads like our fit when not playing first team Thing is that it already exists and has done since 2012! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Development_League#U23_level
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 4, 2017 12:08:56 GMT
Put the comp back to what is was or scrap it. Reinstate the reserves leagues. Using the prem money to help subsidise the costs. Giving all under 23s the chance to play competitive matches along side pros coming back from injury or needing game time . Benefits prem youngsters as well as giving lower clubs the chance to develop their own youth and help keep squads like our fit when not playing first team Thing is that it already exists and has done since 2012! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Development_League#U23_levelNot really that's an under23 league, and I can only play 3 players over that age. This means the younger players don't get the experience of playing with older pros. Why do you think players like long and riberio and raglan take so long to come back, and get up to match sharpness ? Because we don't have a reserve side so they can only get game time in specially arranged friendlies or the odd Dec squad game. Much better if players like riberio and raglan are playing reserve football so they are fit and ready to hit the ground running when needed for the first team, we could also then keep players like Roberts around the first team as they would be getting matches and learning the formation with our own coaching ataff
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Post by bashamwonderland on Apr 4, 2017 12:13:08 GMT
I think more under 23 sides should take part in this tournament. All Prem and Championship sides should field a reserve side.
To cope with the influx of new reserve teams, all full-time professional league teams should be removed from the competition, perhaps forming some sort of UK Inter-toto cup made up of League 1, The top two Welsh Teams, the top two Irish teams and the Scottish Premiership.
Or just scrap the meaningless trophy. I was enjoying my Checkatrade boycott so much that I think I will continue for the rest of its existence.
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Post by unification on Apr 4, 2017 12:21:01 GMT
Not really that's an under23 league, and I can only play 3 players over that age. This means the younger players don't get the experience of playing with older pros. Why do you think players like long and riberio and raglan take so long to come back, and get up to match sharpness ? Because we don't have a reserve side so they can only get game time in specially arranged friendlies or the odd Dec squad game. Much better if players like riberio and raglan are playing reserve football so they are fit and ready to hit the ground running when needed for the first team, we could also then keep players like Roberts around the first team as they would be getting matches and learning the formation with our own coaching ataff Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were campaigning for the reserve league to return for PL sides to field their U23s. A lot of teams in the FL just don't have the resources to maintain two full XIs all the time or at least a side made up of enough senior pros and youths to be competitive. I think the '00s essentially saw the end of League 1 and League 2 teams having regular reserve team games which is a shame really. We have our Development side who arrange ad hoc friendlies, but it's not ideal for returning players.
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Post by oufcyellows on Apr 4, 2017 12:27:13 GMT
Not really that's an under23 league, and I can only play 3 players over that age. This means the younger players don't get the experience of playing with older pros. Why do you think players like long and riberio and raglan take so long to come back, and get up to match sharpness ? Because we don't have a reserve side so they can only get game time in specially arranged friendlies or the odd Dec squad game. Much better if players like riberio and raglan are playing reserve football so they are fit and ready to hit the ground running when needed for the first team, we could also then keep players like Roberts around the first team as they would be getting matches and learning the formation with our own coaching ataff Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were campaigning for the reserve league to return for PL sides to field their U23s. A lot of teams in the FL just don't have the resources to maintain two full XIs all the time or at least a side made up of enough senior pros and youths to be competitive. I think the '00s essentially saw the end of League 1 and League 2 teams having regular reserve team games which is a shame really. We have our Development side who arrange ad hoc friendlies, but it's not ideal for returning players. This is the problem, so scrap the p*ss pot trophy, use the money the prem are chucking at it to develop their players into subsidising the lower teams costs, meaning we get a bit more money the chance to benefit not only our fringe and injured first team players but also mix in our own youth prospects, while giving the prem u23 players more game time (which is supposedly the reason they are in this comp) but also along side more experienced pros from their own teams who ain't getting games or retuning from injury. Getting them even more experience.
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Post by holdsteady on Apr 4, 2017 15:21:37 GMT
Just go back to a knock out cup for the 48 L1 and L2 sides, and let the clubs play who they want so our squad and youth players get some first team football.
I realise that this will see a drop in prize money, but does every single thing in modern day football have to be about cash?
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Post by ox18 on Apr 4, 2017 15:51:47 GMT
Is there anyone on here who is in favour of B Teams in the tournament? If so, care to stick your head above the parapet and give some reasons why? There is a strong rumour floating around that Concrete Bob is having second thoughts and could be in favour of keeping the same format.
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Post by oufcgav on Apr 4, 2017 17:46:52 GMT
Would rather they dumped the competition altogether rather than carry on or keep messing about. No B teams No group stage No extra point winning penalties No other American style gimmicks.
Unfortunately i think that it will come down to whether the prem clubs want it, if they do they will dangle a little more cash (weeks of one players wages) and league chairmen will cave again. It will be like EPPP all over again, club futures sold out for peanuts.
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