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Post by charliesghost on Feb 17, 2017 0:04:25 GMT
I'm not sure that all of us (well, me anyway!) are trying to say that the current stadium is perfect or preferable to a new build. But it is not entirely outside the bounds of possibility that we will be in the Championship while at the current venue. In that case you would hope for larger crowds, both home and away fans, and thus would need to ensure (especially if some of the existing car park space was either being built on as some part of the deal with Kassam or a fourth stand was eating up the room) that people could get to the stadium somehow! I think that it is perfectly possible, yes, to apply Blu Tac and string while looking for a better option determinedly. And if we are in the Championship before we have a better option then that is what the club will do, of course. But it is somewhat frustrating to watch the driven determination and ambition of other clubs to better themselves and achieve their potential whilst listening to so many of our fans, eyes fixated in the tarmac in front of them, desperate to stay put in our ghastly, tin-pot already dated home. It's like going back ten years and finding that somehow Brighton fans had become so entranced by Withdean that they didn't see the point of moving to the Amex, massive effort though it would be. Or of a little group of sniffling Rotherham supporters weepily trying to persuade their Board not to even consider leaving their bizarre former home for the New York stadium. Or a group of Reading fans angrily remonstrating with John Madejski as he tried to persuade them of the benefits of giving up their beloved Elm Park. Not saying that this is how you feel, far from it. But the angst which accompanies the fairly normal and straightforward process of moving somewhere better - by normal, I mean that over 20 clubs have done it in the last couple of decades - is really, really odd.
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Post by scoob on Feb 17, 2017 0:08:33 GMT
Yes I understand the Mutli Storey issue. Thats why I joked about Vegas and their massive multi storey car parks that are in almost constant use with huge sums spent/lost at their venues every hour of the year. No way would they every be viable for our stadium.
Buses tried and failed with crowds much smaller than today because the football was crap at both ends of the park. Does not mean they would fail with double or treble the crowds attracted to a far more entertaining form of the sport. Other transport/parking options have never been tested because they have rarely been needed even with capacity crowds.
I have yet to be convinced about WE but that does not mean that I have a closed mind.
Trying to get 15,000+ people to an out of town venue is always going to be difficult and I am also not convinced that transport links would be any better to the North. A34/A40 are a nightmare at the best of times and will have to carry much of the crowd. How many people will walk into the ground from Summertown/Banbury Road and other nearby areas? A large number walk in from around the current ground. Trains have very limited appeal to me as I rarely find that they are an effective means of transport unless you live/work/play very close to the stations and they seem to be excessively expensive. I live only 40 miles from WE but the train would take too long to be viable from where I work/live and I reckon that would be the case for many. However, I accept that some of the crowd would use it and that is an option we currently don't have at the Kassam so I can see some benefit. I believe that a multi faceted transport strategy using all road/rail forms of transport will need to be used unless huge car parks with free flowing access roads are built along the lines of large theme parks.
Of course I do not have the benefit of seeing all of the information that you put together but Im afraid that you have failed to convince me so far. Pointing out the failings of the current stadium (which we can see and feel) is very easy but without detailed information regarding the potential new stadium it is hard for those of us that look deeper than the surface to come to a sensible conclusion. It is easy to pick apart arguments about staying where we are as all of the detail is in front of us. Apart from a broad brush description of the benefits of WE we have not had the opportunity to question the detailed plans and challenge the assumptions being made (they may be correct but the may not). Also it appears that those that have had access to that information have not seen the light either but they may once the most important issue being worked on at the moment has been overcome.
I appreciate that the planning situation has changed radically from the decades that it took to get permission for the current stadium but I am not convinced that it would be an easy or quick enough process to get a stadium built. In the meantime we have to tread water with the current limitations and we could easily fall back to a very perilous place in the meantime. Like most fans I am sure we would love to see our team play in a superb state of the art stadium and I want to be convinced that this is the way to go. This needs to be sold to me and objections overcome in a clear coherent manner like any good, effective sales presentation.
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Post by scoob on Feb 17, 2017 1:54:20 GMT
A bit of info regarding The AMEX Stadium and Brighton & HAFC:
The ground cost around £90M (Possibly more following expansion) has a capacity of 30,750 and is worth together with training/academy facility £144M with Liabilities of £150M and overall net liabilities of £9M
The Club and AMEX Stadco are separate. Rent is £1,333,333 for stadium and training facility. The club receives all revenue for the ground (including Rugby World Cup revenue) and the Stadco only revenue is the above rent.
The accounts for both companies were published to end June 2016.
The Club showed a loss of £27M on Turnover of £23M with all wages adding up to £27M (One Director £580K!). Overall Net Liabilities were £100M for the club. Ticket Revenue £10M. Catering Revenue £1.3M (including Rugby World Cup) Average crowds (3rd In Championship but not promoted) were 25,000. Most debt is to the owner who provides interest free loans.
The stadium has a 2,000 space car park and operates three Park and Ride sites. According to Wikepadia Match tickets include the cost of public transport (including rail).
Brighton are obviously able to comfortably host Championship and Premiership football.
Some very big numbers to play with (other than rent!) and on a very different scale to buying and developing the Kassam Stadium but clearly a far far superior stadium and match day experience.
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Post by oufcyellows on Feb 17, 2017 6:39:11 GMT
No idea why you couldn't just drive to the other carpark like normal The access from the car park would only need to be two cars width and could be opposite the ox statue, just so not to effect the team bus (which doesn't park there anyway) and the players I believe as well as staff have to park in the normal car park to free up corporate spaces. Not to mention the inconvenience of having to change you're name to Oxford road Train station, I have no idea, again I'm not against WE I'm just countering some of the arguments that are used against the Kassam. Would oxford park way have trains running at times designed for football crowds on sat and tue, I have no idea. With the Kassam I think a lot is based on what it is now, but it could be so so much better. And quickly without much expense . Better than a purpose built dream stadium - no of course not. But again that's still not and never has been considered a serious option by any chairman or by oxvox doing a serious study into both sites With the best will in the world - and loving them all as I do - speaking to a junior, un-elected civil servant is not a 'serious study'. I think you may be surprised at what comes out in coming months. Probably not pleasantly so, for you. But for most fans it may be more pleasant. Ok now I know you are only using the not pleasant for you as a wind up, clever but not working my dear boy. Can read you like a book . A very very long book. what I have noticed is you have a very big habit (probably from you're press days ) of avoiding questions you don't want to answer. You just go quiet and hope nobody notices. Several times I have asked about you're involvement with the community trust. Why? Because I thought it strange that you did like to mention it a lot as it showed how close you were to the club, same with advising il, but that suddenly stopped. So are you still involved in the community trust, if not why's that? And could you point out 5 major faults or serious down sides to WE. I have given you 3 and you seem to only have semi questioned one in a slight dig about junior civil servants so I take it the other two are justified or you would have gone to town on them.
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 17, 2017 8:16:43 GMT
A bit of info regarding The AMEX Stadium and Brighton & HAFC: The ground cost around £90M (Possibly more following expansion) has a capacity of 30,750 and is worth together with training/academy facility £144M with Liabilities of £150M and overall net liabilities of £9M The Club and AMEX Stadco are separate. Rent is £1,333,333 for stadium and training facility. The club receives all revenue for the ground (including Rugby World Cup revenue) and the Stadco only revenue is the above rent. The accounts for both companies were published to end June 2016. The Club showed a loss of £27M on Turnover of £23M with all wages adding up to £27M (One Director £580K!). Overall Net Liabilities were £100M for the club. Ticket Revenue £10M. Catering Revenue £1.3M (including Rugby World Cup) Average crowds (3rd In Championship but not promoted) were 25,000. Most debt is to the owner who provides interest free loans. The stadium has a 2,000 space car park and operates three Park and Ride sites. According to Wikepadia Match tickets include the cost of public transport (including rail). Brighton are obviously able to comfortably host Championship and Premiership football. Some very big numbers to play with (other than rent!) and on a very different scale to buying and developing the Kassam Stadium but clearly a far far superior stadium and match day experience. I don't think that we're proposing to carve a 30,000 seat stadium out of chalk! Have a look at Rotherham for a recent, relevant example. And then add the extra tier that they have been planned for, at 800 quid per extra seat (it's cheaper once you're adding to a stadium that has been designed for it). At Brighton, which has an inferior station to WE, around 12,000 people per game arrive by train on a mixture of scheduled and special services. Because of the extensive matchday experience, the first arrivals are getting there at circa midday and others closer to kick-off after having drinks in the City Centre (imagine!). If it wasn't for the railway the stadium wouldn't work, as the traffic is already bad in any case. In answer to oufcyellows, the downsides of WE are as follows: 1) it does not have planning yet 2) it requires imagination, because it does not exist 3) though closer to what might loosely be called the town centre it is still not that close Other than that, it is the perfect venue - or as perfect as any place in Oxfordshire will ever be. Scoob, I am interested by your assertion that you would find it harder to get to than the Kassam. I am one of the few in the county for whom that would realistically be the case, living 10 minutes drive from Grenoble Road but 15 minutes from Thame railway station. So for me, it would be 15 mins by car and 15 mins on the train. Where are you? Water Eaton station was theoretically designed so that it would be within 35 minutes reach of everyone in the county, given a fair wind.
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Post by oufcyellows on Feb 17, 2017 9:01:27 GMT
Thanks for an honest answer Charles. Although U side stepped the trust one again Could you answer this final one, it's not a dig or wind up I honestly don't know. Is it correct that applications to the Cherwell local plan had to be in by Jan, and if so does that mean it's now more difficult/unlikely until the next review in 3 years is it
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Post by scoob on Feb 17, 2017 9:50:23 GMT
Charlie I live 10 miles west of Stratford Upon Avon but usually come from Stratford. For the MK game it took me one hour and five minutes from central Stratford to sitting in my seat 15 mins before KO. WE would be 15 mins closer but I am sure there would be tailbacks onto A34 which would slow progress by much more as there will be very little street parking. Even for capacity games at the moment I rarely hit any traffic and there is an easy route to where I park very close to stadium. If I did not park there I could park 10 mins further away (by foot) and still get to ground with 5 mins to spare. I very much doubt that this would be the case at WE. I believe that the current ground with an intergrated transport policy can cope with much larger crowds but, like Brighton, that will require people getting to the ground early and getting away later than current.
The reason I looked at Brighton was that it is often given as an example of what can be achieved but with £250,000,000 of current debt (ok potentially £145,000,000 of fixed asset) and significant annual losses there is huge risk attached to the future of that club. I've not had time to fully get my head around that one but carving out the chalk can't be more than a couple of tens of million out of close to £100,000,000. I'm not trying to be negative but really need you to justify WE and give realistic costing/infrastructure before I can get fully behind it. For me minimising risk to the future of the club is as important as having a nice comfy seat in a pretty stadium. I will look at Rotherham when I get a chance.
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 17, 2017 19:02:30 GMT
Thanks for an honest answer Charles. Although U side stepped the trust one again Could you answer this final one, it's not a dig or wind up I honestly don't know. Is it correct that applications to the Cherwell local plan had to be in by Jan, and if so does that mean it's now more difficult/unlikely until the next review in 3 years is it Ish, but it's 'exceptional circumstance', which lies outside such things. The real problem is not that, but that various landowners have become titillated by the possibility of them being the lucky ones to hit the jackpot and get resi housing. That pushes the price of land up. Or can do, depending on whether the precise patch of land is suitable for housing. On the Trust, I kept on mean to answer you, but forgot - I stopped being a Trustee last summer after five years, when (yet another) new head of it took over. I said I'd carry on helping on specific projects, especially fundraising, if asked but haven't been taken up on it. Which is probably a good thing if you ask my colleagues.
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 17, 2017 19:08:17 GMT
Charlie I live 10 miles west of Stratford Upon Avon but usually come from Stratford. For the MK game it took me one hour and five minutes from central Stratford to sitting in my seat 15 mins before KO. WE would be 15 mins closer but I am sure there would be tailbacks onto A34 which would slow progress by much more as there will be very little street parking. Even for capacity games at the moment I rarely hit any traffic and there is an easy route to where I park very close to stadium. If I did not park there I could park 10 mins further away (by foot) and still get to ground with 5 mins to spare. I very much doubt that this would be the case at WE. I believe that the current ground with an intergrated transport policy can cope with much larger crowds but, like Brighton, that will require people getting to the ground early and getting away later than current. The reason I looked at Brighton was that it is often given as an example of what can be achieved but with £250,000,000 of current debt (ok potentially £145,000,000 of fixed asset) and significant annual losses there is huge risk attached to the future of that club. I've not had time to fully get my head around that one but carving out the chalk can't be more than a couple of tens of million out of close to £100,000,000. I'm not trying to be negative but really need you to justify WE and give realistic costing/infrastructure before I can get fully behind it. For me minimising risk to the future of the club is as important as having a nice comfy seat in a pretty stadium. I will look at Rotherham when I get a chance. So currently it takes you how long to get to Grenoble Road? Because I make it that to get to WE would be 20 minutes drive to Banbury station, or 30 minutes to Bicester, followed by a 10 minute train ride. In fact, you would be more benefitted than most! Can't believe you do it in 35/40 minutes at the moment.....
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 17, 2017 19:10:08 GMT
Charlie I live 10 miles west of Stratford Upon Avon but usually come from Stratford. For the MK game it took me one hour and five minutes from central Stratford to sitting in my seat 15 mins before KO. WE would be 15 mins closer but I am sure there would be tailbacks onto A34 which would slow progress by much more as there will be very little street parking. Even for capacity games at the moment I rarely hit any traffic and there is an easy route to where I park very close to stadium. If I did not park there I could park 10 mins further away (by foot) and still get to ground with 5 mins to spare. I very much doubt that this would be the case at WE. I believe that the current ground with an intergrated transport policy can cope with much larger crowds but, like Brighton, that will require people getting to the ground early and getting away later than current. The reason I looked at Brighton was that it is often given as an example of what can be achieved but with £250,000,000 of current debt (ok potentially £145,000,000 of fixed asset) and significant annual losses there is huge risk attached to the future of that club. I've not had time to fully get my head around that one but carving out the chalk can't be more than a couple of tens of million out of close to £100,000,000. I'm not trying to be negative but really need you to justify WE and give realistic costing/infrastructure before I can get fully behind it. For me minimising risk to the future of the club is as important as having a nice comfy seat in a pretty stadium. I will look at Rotherham when I get a chance. As for the rest, if you are genuinely interested I can take you through the whole costings in person some time, since you are one of the few posters on here to take an interest in detail.
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Post by oufcyellows on Feb 17, 2017 19:13:02 GMT
Thanks for an honest answer Charles. Although U side stepped the trust one again Could you answer this final one, it's not a dig or wind up I honestly don't know. Is it correct that applications to the Cherwell local plan had to be in by Jan, and if so does that mean it's now more difficult/unlikely until the next review in 3 years is it Ish, but it's 'exceptional circumstance', which lies outside such things. The real problem is not that, but that various landowners have become titillated by the possibility of them being the lucky ones to hit the jackpot and get resi housing. That pushes the price of land up. Or can do, depending on whether the precise patch of land is suitable for housing. On the Trust, I kept on mean to answer you, but forgot - I stopped being a Trustee last summer after five years, when (yet another) new head of it took over. I said I'd carry on helping on specific projects, especially fundraising, if asked but haven't been taken up on it. Which is probably a good thing if you ask my colleagues. Could exceptional circumstance not be used to gain parking and training facilities at the Kassam then? Make the case that without it the club will really struggle. But can be used by public when not in use. Is there enough land at WE that it could take both, or a hotel or something as well as the stadium, make the club back some of the money spent ?
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 17, 2017 19:26:05 GMT
Ish, but it's 'exceptional circumstance', which lies outside such things. The real problem is not that, but that various landowners have become titillated by the possibility of them being the lucky ones to hit the jackpot and get resi housing. That pushes the price of land up. Or can do, depending on whether the precise patch of land is suitable for housing. On the Trust, I kept on mean to answer you, but forgot - I stopped being a Trustee last summer after five years, when (yet another) new head of it took over. I said I'd carry on helping on specific projects, especially fundraising, if asked but haven't been taken up on it. Which is probably a good thing if you ask my colleagues. Could exceptional circumstance not be used to gain parking and training facilities at the Kassam then? Make the case that without it the club will really struggle. But can be used by public when not in use. Is there enough land at WE that it could take both, or a hotel or something as well as the stadium, make the club back some of the money spent ? In answer to your questions: 1) Yes, we can apply for exceptional circumstance south of Grenoble Road. It'd be up to SODC as to whether they grant it, of course, but it would apply, I think. 2) the amount of land available depends on which patch you look at. In some cases, there is an un-ending quantity of land; in others, one would be more hemmed in. But, yes, you're right: whoever developed it would look for enabling permission to sit alongside the stadium. Conf centre would be a given and a hotel would be sensible, given the location... I personally do not think the club should be the developer, but should be the beneficiary/ tenant. Don't want to go thru the whole Robin Herd episode again!
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 17, 2017 19:32:40 GMT
Charlie I live 10 miles west of Stratford Upon Avon but usually come from Stratford. For the MK game it took me one hour and five minutes from central Stratford to sitting in my seat 15 mins before KO. WE would be 15 mins closer but I am sure there would be tailbacks onto A34 which would slow progress by much more as there will be very little street parking. Even for capacity games at the moment I rarely hit any traffic and there is an easy route to where I park very close to stadium. If I did not park there I could park 10 mins further away (by foot) and still get to ground with 5 mins to spare. I very much doubt that this would be the case at WE. I believe that the current ground with an intergrated transport policy can cope with much larger crowds but, like Brighton, that will require people getting to the ground early and getting away later than current. The reason I looked at Brighton was that it is often given as an example of what can be achieved but with £250,000,000 of current debt (ok potentially £145,000,000 of fixed asset) and significant annual losses there is huge risk attached to the future of that club. I've not had time to fully get my head around that one but carving out the chalk can't be more than a couple of tens of million out of close to £100,000,000. I'm not trying to be negative but really need you to justify WE and give realistic costing/infrastructure before I can get fully behind it. For me minimising risk to the future of the club is as important as having a nice comfy seat in a pretty stadium. I will look at Rotherham when I get a chance. There is an easily accessible chart if you Google which shows you the cost of the new-builds since the Taylor Report. The Amex is near the top, because they had to cutout an remove 138,000 cubic metres of chalk to create the stadium. The environmental implications were enormous. For a more realistic, flat field build look at the Liberty and Stadium MK and the New York. Those are much more in our ball-park.
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Post by oufcyellows on Feb 17, 2017 19:39:27 GMT
Could exceptional circumstance not be used to gain parking and training facilities at the Kassam then? Make the case that without it the club will really struggle. But can be used by public when not in use. Is there enough land at WE that it could take both, or a hotel or something as well as the stadium, make the club back some of the money spent ? In answer to your questions: 1) Yes, we can apply for exceptional circumstance south of Grenoble Road. It'd be up to SODC as to whether they grant it, of course, but it would apply, I think. 2) the amount of land available depends on which patch you look at. In some cases, there is an un-ending quantity of land; in others, one would be more hemmed in. But, yes, you're right: whoever developed it would look for enabling permission to sit alongside the stadium. Conf centre would be a given and a hotel would be sensible, given the location... I personally do not think the club should be the developer, but should be the beneficiary/ tenant. Don't want to go thru the whole Robin Herd episode again! Would they still get the grants and money from fk for moving if it was a desperate developer doing it and not the club ? Then the profit from conference and hotel would all go back to the stadium rather than the club again? Wouldn't we be in exactly the same situation just in a bigger stadium? Or do u mean in a community trust again? Is the Thames water facility inside sodc or city boundaries? I've heard on the grape vine that they are planning on pulling out of the site, with a better facility being set up else where. Could then be a brown field site going instead of on sodc green belt
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Post by scoob on Feb 17, 2017 22:38:57 GMT
Charlie I live 10 miles west of Stratford Upon Avon but usually come from Stratford. For the MK game it took me one hour and five minutes from central Stratford to sitting in my seat 15 mins before KO. WE would be 15 mins closer but I am sure there would be tailbacks onto A34 which would slow progress by much more as there will be very little street parking. Even for capacity games at the moment I rarely hit any traffic and there is an easy route to where I park very close to stadium. If I did not park there I could park 10 mins further away (by foot) and still get to ground with 5 mins to spare. I very much doubt that this would be the case at WE. I believe that the current ground with an intergrated transport policy can cope with much larger crowds but, like Brighton, that will require people getting to the ground early and getting away later than current. The reason I looked at Brighton was that it is often given as an example of what can be achieved but with £250,000,000 of current debt (ok potentially £145,000,000 of fixed asset) and significant annual losses there is huge risk attached to the future of that club. I've not had time to fully get my head around that one but carving out the chalk can't be more than a couple of tens of million out of close to £100,000,000. I'm not trying to be negative but really need you to justify WE and give realistic costing/infrastructure before I can get fully behind it. For me minimising risk to the future of the club is as important as having a nice comfy seat in a pretty stadium. I will look at Rotherham when I get a chance. As for the rest, if you are genuinely interested I can take you through the whole costings in person some time, since you are one of the few posters on here to take an interest in detail. Charlie I am genuinely interested and would really like to understand the detail. Like you I feel that this is so important for the future of the club especially as I did a lot of work on the outline feasibility of buying the current stadium some time ago. With regards to timings I can easily get to WE in 45 mins and you are right about Banbury being about 30 mins. The issue will be timing of trains, parking time/cost etc. On Saturdays's I work so 10-15 minutes extra travelling time can make the difference between making the game or not. As I said I hardly ever use trains as I find the door to door times combined with cost rarely work. However, my comments have not been about me as that does not matter its about getting thousands of extra people to the ground in a decent amount of time to encourage them to become regulars. My belief is that there are areas around the current stadium where significant areas of potential parking (not definite) are not currently used and, bearing in mind my experiences, the access routes would make them viable if they became available.
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Post by essexyellows on Feb 18, 2017 19:25:57 GMT
May I ask a rather simple question? Why isn`t the Science Park used as overflow parking? Surely at £5/6 a car the earning potential is huge provided by folk who want "easy in - easy out" ? Is there some sort of covenant that prevents it or just the Uni/Owners being stuffy?
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Post by oufcyellows on Feb 18, 2017 19:40:08 GMT
May I ask a rather simple question? Why isn`t the Science Park used as overflow parking? Surely at £5/6 a car the earning potential is huge provided by folk who want "easy in - easy out" ? Is there some sort of covenant that prevents it or just the Uni/Owners being stuffy? Just never wanted to I believe. Fear of damage and mess higher than any need to do so. Uni owned I doubt they need the money. Possibly something g our new uni director could look at or work with
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Post by makv on Feb 18, 2017 21:03:57 GMT
May I ask a rather simple question? Why isn`t the Science Park used as overflow parking? Surely at £5/6 a car the earning potential is huge provided by folk who want "easy in - easy out" ? Is there some sort of covenant that prevents it or just the Uni/Owners being stuffy? Just never wanted to I believe. Fear of damage and mess higher than any need to do so. Uni owned I doubt they need the money. Possibly something g our new uni director could look at or work with Often wondered this myself. Parked at a similar place for MK and it worked a dream. No "damage" as far I know!
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Post by arthurturner on Feb 19, 2017 7:44:40 GMT
Yes I understand the Mutli Storey issue. Thats why I joked about Vegas and their massive multi storey car parks that are in almost constant use with huge sums spent/lost at their venues every hour of the year. No way would they every be viable for our stadium. Buses tried and failed with crowds much smaller than today because the football was crap at both ends of the park. Does not mean they would fail with double or treble the crowds attracted to a far more entertaining form of the sport. Other transport/parking options have never been tested because they have rarely been needed even with capacity crowds. I have yet to be convinced about WE but that does not mean that I have a closed mind. Trying to get 15,000+ people to an out of town venue is always going to be difficult and I am also not convinced that transport links would be any better to the North. A34/A40 are a nightmare at the best of times and will have to carry much of the crowd. How many people will walk into the ground from Summertown/Banbury Road and other nearby areas? A large number walk in from around the current ground. Trains have very limited appeal to me as I rarely find that they are an effective means of transport unless you live/work/play very close to the stations and they seem to be excessively expensive. I live only 40 miles from WE but the train would take too long to be viable from where I work/live and I reckon that would be the case for many. However, I accept that some of the crowd would use it and that is an option we currently don't have at the Kassam so I can see some benefit. I believe that a multi faceted transport strategy using all road/rail forms of transport will need to be used unless huge car parks with free flowing access roads are built along the lines of large theme parks. Of course I do not have the benefit of seeing all of the information that you put together but Im afraid that you have failed to convince me so far. Pointing out the failings of the current stadium (which we can see and feel) is very easy but without detailed information regarding the potential new stadium it is hard for those of us that look deeper than the surface to come to a sensible conclusion. It is easy to pick apart arguments about staying where we are as all of the detail is in front of us. Apart from a broad brush description of the benefits of WE we have not had the opportunity to question the detailed plans and challenge the assumptions being made (they may be correct but the may not). Also it appears that those that have had access to that information have not seen the light either but they may once the most important issue being worked on at the moment has been overcome. I appreciate that the planning situation has changed radically from the decades that it took to get permission for the current stadium but I am not convinced that it would be an easy or quick enough process to get a stadium built. In the meantime we have to tread water with the current limitations and we could easily fall back to a very perilous place in the meantime. Like most fans I am sure we would love to see our team play in a superb state of the art stadium and I want to be convinced that this is the way to go. This needs to be sold to me and objections overcome in a clear coherent manner like any good, effective sales presentation. Scoob, have you considered that the building of the proposed superhighway linking Oxford and Cambridge, the preferred route being south of Abingdon and north of Aylesbury via Wheatley might open up new development land which might accomodate a new stadium complex with excellent road access?
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Post by saddletramp on Feb 19, 2017 8:09:24 GMT
Yes I understand the Mutli Storey issue. Thats why I joked about Vegas and their massive multi storey car parks that are in almost constant use with huge sums spent/lost at their venues every hour of the year. No way would they every be viable for our stadium. Buses tried and failed with crowds much smaller than today because the football was crap at both ends of the park. Does not mean they would fail with double or treble the crowds attracted to a far more entertaining form of the sport. Other transport/parking options have never been tested because they have rarely been needed even with capacity crowds. I have yet to be convinced about WE but that does not mean that I have a closed mind. Trying to get 15,000+ people to an out of town venue is always going to be difficult and I am also not convinced that transport links would be any better to the North. A34/A40 are a nightmare at the best of times and will have to carry much of the crowd. How many people will walk into the ground from Summertown/Banbury Road and other nearby areas? A large number walk in from around the current ground. Trains have very limited appeal to me as I rarely find that they are an effective means of transport unless you live/work/play very close to the stations and they seem to be excessively expensive. I live only 40 miles from WE but the train would take too long to be viable from where I work/live and I reckon that would be the case for many. However, I accept that some of the crowd would use it and that is an option we currently don't have at the Kassam so I can see some benefit. I believe that a multi faceted transport strategy using all road/rail forms of transport will need to be used unless huge car parks with free flowing access roads are built along the lines of large theme parks. Of course I do not have the benefit of seeing all of the information that you put together but Im afraid that you have failed to convince me so far. Pointing out the failings of the current stadium (which we can see and feel) is very easy but without detailed information regarding the potential new stadium it is hard for those of us that look deeper than the surface to come to a sensible conclusion. It is easy to pick apart arguments about staying where we are as all of the detail is in front of us. Apart from a broad brush description of the benefits of WE we have not had the opportunity to question the detailed plans and challenge the assumptions being made (they may be correct but the may not). Also it appears that those that have had access to that information have not seen the light either but they may once the most important issue being worked on at the moment has been overcome. I appreciate that the planning situation has changed radically from the decades that it took to get permission for the current stadium but I am not convinced that it would be an easy or quick enough process to get a stadium built. In the meantime we have to tread water with the current limitations and we could easily fall back to a very perilous place in the meantime. Like most fans I am sure we would love to see our team play in a superb state of the art stadium and I want to be convinced that this is the way to go. This needs to be sold to me and objections overcome in a clear coherent manner like any good, effective sales presentation. Scoob, have you considered that the building of the proposed superhighway linking Oxford and Cambridge, the preferred route being south of Abingdon and north of Aylesbury via Wheatley might open up new development land which might accomodate a new stadium complex with excellent road access? Yes but have we got 20 years to spare waiting for the tree huggers to come down from the treetops ? P.S.Its NORTH of Abingdon.
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Post by scoob on Feb 19, 2017 13:46:07 GMT
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Post by themightyaldo on Feb 20, 2017 19:14:23 GMT
May I ask a rather simple question? Why isn`t the Science Park used as overflow parking? Surely at £5/6 a car the earning potential is huge provided by folk who want "easy in - easy out" ? Is there some sort of covenant that prevents it or just the Uni/Owners being stuffy? I used to work there and asked the management that question. The answer is that before any tenants sign up they stipulate that no football traffic park in their spaces. I feel a way forward maybe to allow season ticket holders to park there. when you buy the season ticket you could pay an extra 50 quid to park at the Science Park you would have to give car Reg of course but they then have your name and address as well. Just a thought
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Post by Colin B on Feb 20, 2017 19:50:28 GMT
May I ask a rather simple question? Why isn`t the Science Park used as overflow parking? Surely at £5/6 a car the earning potential is huge provided by folk who want "easy in - easy out" ? Is there some sort of covenant that prevents it or just the Uni/Owners being stuffy? I used to work there and asked the management that question. The answer is that before any tenants sign up they stipulate that no football traffic park in their spaces. I feel a way forward maybe to allow season ticket holders to park there. when you buy the season ticket you could pay an extra 50 quid to park at the Science Park you would have to give car Reg of course but they then have your name and address as well. Just a thought That's actually a really good idea.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Feb 20, 2017 21:20:12 GMT
Bit of a long walk when I can park right next to the stadium for free
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Post by oldman159 on Feb 20, 2017 21:24:57 GMT
I used to work there and asked the management that question. The answer is that before any tenants sign up they stipulate that no football traffic park in their spaces. I feel a way forward maybe to allow season ticket holders to park there. when you buy the season ticket you could pay an extra 50 quid to park at the Science Park you would have to give car Reg of course but they then have your name and address as well. Just a thought That's actually a really good idea. Good idea indeed. I wonder who pays for the guys who stand and stop people entering the science park week in, week out If a payment scheme could be devised, perhaps the proceeds could be donated to an Oxford charity?
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Post by makv on Feb 20, 2017 21:36:22 GMT
That's actually a really good idea. Good idea indeed. I wonder who pays for the guys who stand and stop people entering the science park week in, week out If a payment scheme could be devised, perhaps the proceeds could be donated to an Oxford charity? Very good idea. But surely the proceeds would go to the Science Park - otherwise, why would they bother?
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Post by themightyaldo on Feb 22, 2017 20:29:52 GMT
That's actually a really good idea. Good idea indeed. I wonder who pays for the guys who stand and stop people entering the science park week in, week out If a payment scheme could be devised, perhaps the proceeds could be donated to an Oxford charity? The guy at the entrance is paid anyway because he is on duty. There is a security guard there 24/7
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Post by themightyaldo on Feb 22, 2017 20:33:44 GMT
If we charged £50 for the season for parking I would envisage that the Science Park would get half
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Post by smilingbo on Feb 23, 2017 15:06:32 GMT
If we charged £50 for the season for parking I would envisage that the Science Park would get half It would cost a hell of a lot to change the contracts with the tenants
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Post by nick68 on Feb 27, 2017 10:29:34 GMT
How about making us of Park & Rides then runnIng buses from them? I'm certain I saw something from Chiltern suggesting they were seriously considering re-opening the branch line?
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