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Post by Pete Burrett on Feb 15, 2017 10:27:38 GMT
Rarely missed a game at the manor from 1982 till when we left actually. My reasoning for a 16,500 capacity is because in my personal view we have an hardcore support of 5k to 6k who are diehards.And another 3k or 4k who will come on a semi regular basis.And then we have some who will only turn out for what's seen a big game or a day out at Wembley etc. So in my personal view a 16,500 capacity would just be right for OUFC. Obviously none of our opinions on this subject matter just now because the ground is still under the control of an outsider! I disagree with this. We currently have 5,500 ST holders? In the Championship my guess is that it would go up to around 8,000. I think that there are a whole load of people who are not particularly bothered in seeing Fleetwood, Southend, Bury etc. But they would go and watch United play Forest, Derby, Newcastle, Aston Villa, Norwich. We get Blackburn in the FA Cup and Newcastle or Birmingham and sell out. Sure in the FA Cup but the extra interest is noticeable. The Championship is now the 'big time' with huge crowds and getting more and more media attention. As others have said this may need to be a structured increase, but I can't believe that the City of Oxford and surrounding areas can not possibly sustain Championship football? Agree. Too much emphasis on our support in the past. We haven't played in the second tier this century, i.e. during the 'modern era', post ubiquitous hooliganism and into a time of the more affluent supporter including, dare I say, families. Not to everyone's taste, and I must say there was a certain appeal for me in the 'edge' surrounding football on the terraces of the 80s and 90s, but still a fact. Even if we secede certain parts of Oxfordshire to Reading FC and give up potential fans to the usual Premiership suspects, in a county of 700,000 souls there must be huge numbers who could be targeted to attend tier two matches against relatively big-named clubs. Who cares if half of them currently restrict their support of OUFC to Wembley?
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Post by tbfuth14 on Feb 15, 2017 11:31:56 GMT
I think a few people are forgetting the impressive away followings in the Championship. Oxford is very conveniently located in the country, and not too far to travel for a lot of larger clubs e.g. Forest, Derby, Birmingham clubs, London clubs etc. All of these would bring 1000's. Not to mention clubs like Leeds who seem to sell out whatever capacity you provide. Oxford would be a new ground/city to visit for many of them, and a well known desirable one at that. If you had the capacity to hold say 3,000 away fans, you'd sell 70% of that regularly.
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Post by saddletramp on Feb 15, 2017 11:33:35 GMT
I'm sorry,I just can't have this 16.5k average crowds at Oxford. Yes our crowds are up,EVERY teams do when they get promoted,the scum averaged 9k after promotion to League 1,then 8 then 7,I don't expect our crowds to increase at all unless we win promotion,in fact I'm pretty sure they will fall off next season.
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Post by saddletramp on Feb 15, 2017 11:35:18 GMT
I think a few people are forgetting the impressive away followings in the Championship. Oxford is very conveniently located in the country, and not too far to travel for a lot of larger clubs e.g. Forest, Derby, Birmingham clubs, London clubs etc. All of these would bring 1000's. Not to mention clubs like Leeds who seem to sell out whatever capacity you provide. Oxford would be a new ground/city to visit for many of them, and a well known desirable one at that. If you had the capacity to hold say 3,000 away fans, you'd sell 70% of that regularly. Wolves had 17k last night,they are so much bigger than us,yet we are aiming for crowds like that ?
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Post by tbfuth14 on Feb 15, 2017 11:43:17 GMT
I think a few people are forgetting the impressive away followings in the Championship. Oxford is very conveniently located in the country, and not too far to travel for a lot of larger clubs e.g. Forest, Derby, Birmingham clubs, London clubs etc. All of these would bring 1000's. Not to mention clubs like Leeds who seem to sell out whatever capacity you provide. Oxford would be a new ground/city to visit for many of them, and a well known desirable one at that. If you had the capacity to hold say 3,000 away fans, you'd sell 70% of that regularly. Wolves had 17k last night,they are so much bigger than us,yet we are aiming for crowds like that ? At the Kastad I agree, I actually think those sorts of crowds are pretty ambitious. We're a small club and it's a rundown gloomy concrete hole in a cr*p location (some people really underestimate how run down it is in parts). However, a new stadium with proper railway links on the doorstep and you're onto a winner, the skys your limit then, see Brighton and Reading. It's all about marketing too. Funny you mention Wolves actually. 17k last night and guess what, they don't have a car park! That would send some people on this forum into meltdown. A lot forget we have one of the biggest football car parks in the country, but still think we need bigger and better (okay another exit wouldn't go amiss!). Most Premier League clubs don't have car parks at their stadiums either, certainly not as large as ours anyway.
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Post by myles on Feb 15, 2017 11:57:46 GMT
Funny you mention Wolves actually. 17k last night and guess what, they don't have a car park! That would send some people on this forum into meltdown. A lot forget we have one of the biggest football car parks in the country, but still think we need bigger and better (okay another exit wouldn't go amiss!). Most Premier League clubs don't have car parks at their stadiums either, certainly not as large as ours anyway. But Wolves are right in the city centre with plenty of parking in the area and good public transport links. Throw in their relatively small catchment area and for many of their fans public transport is a sensible option. And many other Premiership and Championship clubs are in similar positions - either in "traditional" city centre locations, or in new ones where serious consideration has been given to public transport. We have a combination of factors including poor public transport, a large catchment area (which makes public transport less viable for many), and badly planned car parks. I don't agree that we need more car parking, but we certainly need some smarter thinking around how fans can get too and from the ground better.
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Post by tbfuth14 on Feb 15, 2017 12:25:43 GMT
Funny you mention Wolves actually. 17k last night and guess what, they don't have a car park! That would send some people on this forum into meltdown. A lot forget we have one of the biggest football car parks in the country, but still think we need bigger and better (okay another exit wouldn't go amiss!). Most Premier League clubs don't have car parks at their stadiums either, certainly not as large as ours anyway. But Wolves are right in the city centre with plenty of parking in the area and good public transport links. Throw in their relatively small catchment area and for many of their fans public transport is a sensible option. And many other Premiership and Championship clubs are in similar positions - either in "traditional" city centre locations, or in new ones where serious consideration has been given to public transport. We have a combination of factors including poor public transport, a large catchment area (which makes public transport less viable for many), and badly planned car parks. I don't agree that we need more car parking, but we certainly need some smarter thinking around how fans can get too and from the ground better. Yes, fair point. But in terms of our current car parking at the Kastad, I actually think we're very fortunate to have so much for such a small capacity ground. Even if it is a nightmare to get out of (a bit of organisation and 1 more exit would sort it though).
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Post by ox4eva on Feb 15, 2017 12:44:34 GMT
Reading's plastic bowl of a ground is not that easy to get to from the train station etc and I would say that I doubt we are going to move away from Grenoble road.
As I mentioned an impressive 4k capacity 2 tier stand would do it for me, as I previously mentioned the top tier would only need to be used for the bigger games and the away support could be housed in the east stand.
I was at the Millwall game last night and the den is a 20k stadium and I think they had around 7k there last night and it would be like that for the U's a lot of the time with empty stands..
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Post by Gary Baldi on Feb 15, 2017 13:23:46 GMT
I think the perception of you have to drive to the stadium has become ingrained. It's just not practical from where I live (and for last night work), but I suspect a lot of people within Oxford drive and could, if transport links improve and it becomes a convenience, use the bus to get to the ground over the car.
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Post by tbfuth14 on Feb 15, 2017 15:12:14 GMT
Reading's plastic bowl of a ground is not that easy to get to from the train station etc and I would say that I doubt we are going to move away from Grenoble road. As I mentioned an impressive 4k capacity 2 tier stand would do it for me, as I previously mentioned the top tier would only need to be used for the bigger games and the away support could be housed in the east stand. I was at the Millwall game last night and the den is a 20k stadium and I think they had around 7k there last night and it would be like that for the U's a lot of the time with empty stands.. Shutting the upper tier of a two tiered stand, with singers in the lower would be dreadful for acoustics. It can very easily turn out like Wembley where you're virtually on an open terrace. It's why Huddersfields singers moved to the opposite end of the ground, to a single tiered stand. The acoustics of the stands at the Kastad aren't actually that bad, they're made from materials which are very good for resonating the noise (go and bang on the walls at the back, they boom and echo nicely). Unfortunately our singers decided to congregate (all be it naturally) behind the goal, which in our stadium is the worst stand of the 3 for acoustics. For the average game, it's hard to make enough noise to bounce off the roof or the back wall because we're so far away from it, even on the top row. The South Upper is probably the best area in the ground acoustically if you organised singers into a corner, but that's a big shout for any regulars up there! With that in mind, it's vital we get this 4th stand correct for our singers. Made with the same materials but with a low roof, also with the thought that safe standing will be installed in the (hopefully) not so distant future.
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Post by ox4eva on Feb 15, 2017 15:35:04 GMT
Reading's plastic bowl of a ground is not that easy to get to from the train station etc and I would say that I doubt we are going to move away from Grenoble road. As I mentioned an impressive 4k capacity 2 tier stand would do it for me, as I previously mentioned the top tier would only need to be used for the bigger games and the away support could be housed in the east stand. I was at the Millwall game last night and the den is a 20k stadium and I think they had around 7k there last night and it would be like that for the U's a lot of the time with empty stands.. Shutting the upper tier of a two tiered stand, with singers in the lower would be dreadful for acoustics. It can very easily turn out like Wembley where you're virtually on an open terrace. It's why Huddersfields singers moved to the opposite end of the ground, to a single tiered stand. The acoustics of the stands at the Kastad aren't actually that bad, they're made from materials which are very good for resonating the noise (go and bang on the walls at the back, they boom and echo nicely). Unfortunately our singers decided to congregate (all be it naturally) behind the goal, which in our stadium is the worst stand of the 3 for acoustics. For the average game, it's hard to make enough noise to bounce off the roof or the back wall because we're so far away from it, even on the top row. The South Upper is probably the best area in the ground acoustically if you organised singers into a corner, but that's a big shout for any regulars up there! With that in mind, it's vital we get this 4th stand correct for our singers. Made with the same materials but with a low roof, also with the thought that safe standing will be installed in the (hopefully) not so distant future. If the top tier overlaps the bottom tier if you know what I mean the acoustics could be great.
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Post by scoob on Feb 16, 2017 6:31:04 GMT
I think a few people are forgetting the impressive away followings in the Championship. Oxford is very conveniently located in the country, and not too far to travel for a lot of larger clubs e.g. Forest, Derby, Birmingham clubs, London clubs etc. All of these would bring 1000's. Not to mention clubs like Leeds who seem to sell out whatever capacity you provide. Oxford would be a new ground/city to visit for many of them, and a well known desirable one at that. If you had the capacity to hold say 3,000 away fans, you'd sell 70% of that regularly. Wolves had 17k last night,they are so much bigger than us,yet we are aiming for crowds like that ? They may have had a small crowd last night but being a Tuesday and Valentines Day that is not bad. They average 21,000 despite being just being just above the bottom quarter in a league that they are very used to and lost their previous two games. Im no sure they are a good example to prove your point.
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Post by Junior on Feb 16, 2017 6:33:59 GMT
Wolves can and do give virtually an unlimited away allocation. All sides get the bottom tier along the side and some big clubs also get a section behind the goal. I'd say this boosts that average quite a bit with the likes of Newcastle, Villa and Leeds all teams who'll bring huge numbers.
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Post by kidintheriot on Feb 16, 2017 13:17:52 GMT
A new stand of a similar size to the East would take us up to 15k. That's probably enough when you consider we can also fill in the corners to add further capacity. Something around 17500 would perhaps do it, on the small side of championship but then so is our club. If we don't maintain championship it's not the end of the world if it's half full, given the kassam has always been just that. But 6-7k rattling around in a 20-25k stadium would be souls destroying.
The way TV rights are headed, gate receipts are reducing in the % of rev a championship club gets (although still the largest sole item at 40-50%. If it falls further, the diff between a 17.5k and 25k ground really starts to close.
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Post by Mark on Feb 16, 2017 15:44:41 GMT
Under the current club ownership, I think there is little point talking about bringing the club up to Championship capacity.
From Charlie's review of the swiss ramble blog, I agree we would be financially on a par with three out of the current bottom four in the Championship.
In order to do much more than avoid relegation would need an owner willing to invest perhaps an extra £5million on average per year on players, even allowing for tv revenues.
So even spending say £10million on the ground for improvements which would perhaps take at least ten years to recoup in ticket sales, by which time we would almost certainly be back in L1 if we had got promoted.
To me it looks like to take Oxford into the Championship long term needs not only the significant increase in ground capacity, but also the cash to overfund for several years.
So the short term fix would be the likes of a temporary West Stand.
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 16, 2017 17:44:22 GMT
There have been so many replies on this that it's best to reply in full than i part to everyone's points.
1. Taking past attendances at the Manor is a guide is just plain wrong, on all counts. Why?
a). Overall average Championship attendances have increased by 30% since the mid-90s. This increase has been especially pronounced in the County clubs with big catchment areas. b). As football has become progressively middle-class, a whole new live audience has been attracted to coming to games, whereas previously they watched on TV. c). The Manor, which I adored, was a very, ahem, particular place. The only decent seats, in the Beech Road, were sold out. Most of the rest of the ground was terracing, and thus entirely unsuitable for families, old'uns, young ones, women etc. d). Transport-wise it was very tricky for most of the county. Unless you came from Thame, like me, it meant getting a bus or train into the City Centre and then another 20 minutes bus out. So for most of the county, an hour on public transport or very tough parking conditions. e). Oxfordshire has been on a long-term population increase, and it is a youthful migration. So the market has simply increased. f). The data evidence for this is unanswerable. Leaving aside Checkatrade and 1st round of the FA Cup, our lowest attendance right now would be circa 6000 in League 1; 5000 in League 2. Yet I remember watching us play Portsmouth in the Chhampionship in front of about 4000. Unthinkable today in League 2, let alone League 1, let alone the Championship. g) Our current stadium is the same capacity as the Manor, give or take. And - mid-table in League 1 - we are going to sell it out 5 times at least this season. Unthinkable at the Manor. h) If we had a capacity of 14,000 (as we did in the early 80s at the Manor), our average attendance this season in League and proper Cup matches would be circa 10,000, very similar to when we got promoted to the top tier in 1984. Mid-table in League 1 is very different from runaway leaders in the Championship. i) Our average attendance when we got promoted from League 1 to the Championship in 1995/1996 was 7,800. So despite under-performing that side, we are going to have an additional 1000 fans per game this season. If were in automatic promotion contention, as we were then, one would expect our average this season to rise to circa 9,500 in the next three months.
So the conclusion is clear: our core fanbase has increased, as has our ability to bring in more occasional supporters for the big matches (we could have sold 20,000 plus for Newcastle, according to the club)
2. Away attendances have grown significantly in the Championship, and now stand at almost exactly 2000, whereas from what I can see the figure in League 1 is circa 500.
3. The average percentage to capacity attendance in League 1 is 52%; we are standing at 67%.
4. The broader support base that County teams inevitably have have further to travel and are less passionate than the hardcore. But there are many more of them. Every time we have a match against a recognised name - and I include the likes of Bolton and Sheff U in this - I suddenly have a tail of friends and family wanting tickets. They are NEVER interested in a game against a classic lower league club.
cf the experiences of Reading and Brighton. Historically, Reading averaged less than us, and Brighton the same. Now they sell 17,000 and 28,000 respectively.
5. The public transport to and from the Kassam is dire and the eating and drinking options at the ground appalling. This is a major issue with the less committed, as they are queueing to drive in, nothing to drink or eat, then queueing to get out again. As matchday experiences go, it is poor.
Conclusion:
1. One would have to be moronic not to think that a League 1 title-chasing side would not be averaging close to 10,000 at Grenoble Road 2. At Championship l level, we will more or less sell out home areas in season tickets alone. I would expect us to see a minimum of 8,500. Add in average away attendances of 2000 and we will be at 10,500 before we have sold a single ticket to a casual supporter or interested local neutral (of which there are loads) 3. If the capacity was 16,000, I would expect 9,000 season tickets (more good seats to sell and more hospitality-related seats), plus 2000 away fans plus a casual following of 3-4000 on average. More for Villa, Leeds, Derby, Newcastle etc; fewer for Rotherham, Blackburn etc. We would be sold out 5 or 6 times a season, and have 5 or 6 games when we were down at 12,000 or so 4. It therefore follows that even a capacity of 16,000 will constrain us. To really hit the 16,000 average we need, we need to be able to sell out 20,000 for the 'big' clubs who will themselves want to bring 3,000.
All, literally all, the above is based on reasonable deduction from hard data. To be honest, my personal belief is that it would all kick off even more, as it did with comparable clubs in the last ten years. But not to plan for at least 16,000 average in the 2017 world of higher league football is basically asking to be booted off the rich men's table sooner or later.
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 16, 2017 20:16:38 GMT
I think the perception of you have to drive to the stadium has become ingrained. It's just not practical from where I live (and for last night work), but I suspect a lot of people within Oxford drive and could, if transport links improve and it becomes a convenience, use the bus to get to the ground over the car. Yes, but fewer than 20 per cent of our supporters come from Oxford, and diminishing. That is not where the growth is going to come from. The growth is in Bicester/ Banbury/ Witney/ Didcot.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Feb 16, 2017 20:37:41 GMT
I have to drive.
The problem isn't with the amount of parking at the stadium. The problem is where to park when that is full. Unlike town centre stadia, there are no obvious other car parks or side roads even if you accept you are going to have a 15-25 minute walk.
I know some clever dicks will reply that they always manage to park in some obscure place 2 minutes walk away... For those fans (home or away) who aren't that familiar with the area that isn't an option. And I doubt there are loads of spare spots in your hidey holes anyway!
The club needs to arrange something for big games. Rent a farmers field (or use UniPart like we did a few seasons ago) and put on some shuttle busses, get local schools to rent out their car parks. There surely must be something.
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Post by oufcyellows on Feb 16, 2017 20:46:21 GMT
All doable if the will is there though. The issue getting out of the car park isn't down to poor road networks, it's the fact it only has one exit and it's not stewarded very well. No different to getting out of Wembley or even the jr. sort the car park with another exit (maybe) or at least better stewarding. Like u say arrange shuttle busses, from a park and ride. More busses out on from other areas. One from Kidlington, headington, abingdon. Get the train station up and running. The Kassam is suddenly a lot more workable. Without having to spend vast amounts. It's the biggest free carpark in English football, just needs some additional tweaking
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 16, 2017 21:00:46 GMT
All doable if the will is there though. The issue getting out of the car park isn't down to poor road networks, it's the fact it only has one exit and it's not stewarded very well. No different to getting out of Wembley or even the jr. sort the car park with another exit (maybe) or at least better stewarding. Like u say arrange shuttle busses, from a park and ride. More busses out on from other areas. One from Kidlington, headington, abingdon. Get the train station up and running. The Kassam is suddenly a lot more workable. Without having to spend vast amounts. It's the biggest free carpark in English football, just needs some additional tweaking An additional exit where?? And who is it who is supposed to 'get the train station up and running'? It's so easy to throw around those kind of 'solutions', but reality doesn't work that way. And once the overflow has gone and the 4th stand been built, it certainly will not be the biggest car park in football. It'll be a few hundred spaces max, and some of them will be reserved for the other Grenoble Road businesses (you watch). I do love your 'can do' attitude. Odd, though, that you have precisely the opposite attitude to other solutions. It's as if you are so dead set on making this work that really tough things - new roads! New railway stations! New exits! - are made to sound easy, whereas getting planning on a site already ear-marked for development, next to an existing railway station with 2000 car parking spaces, is made to sound totally unworkable...
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Post by oufcyellows on Feb 16, 2017 21:15:32 GMT
Again Charlie I've never said it would be easy, or that WE doesn't have very good points. Superb in fact. A dream scenario. Yet it doesn't have one thing and still doesn't look like it will get it, a stadium ! I do love that you still think there are oufc fans that wouldn't want it. Another exit off of the corporate parking would cut a lot of cars trying to merge into the main drag. Not that difficult could even be left turn only then using the roundabout by holiday to turn around. Same with making parking at uni part with shuttle buses in, not hard to organise. Train station has been given the go ahead, and with development to the growing science park would make sense. Who would get it up and running? I dunno, who got oxford park way up and running ? Again you go with the "I'm only interested in the Kassam". Not at all, it's pointless me pointing out the plus points for WE you have done it constantly for 3 years in essay after essay, I doubt there is anything else that could possibly be said on the benefits Here's one for you though, we are all well aware of the down sides of the Kassam. (Some of them not quite the issues they are made out to be) Could you list 5 faults with WE ,major hurdles even. As no site is perfect, yet I don't think I have once seen u mention anything other than the positives. I can think of 3 ,might not be correct (but I'm sure you will clear that up ) The fact that road infrastructure is likely to be around £15/20m before the ground even starts, im told just the Access to the new Barton village is costing over £5m. Paid for by the developers. And that's a pretty simple turn off. The pinch point coming out of Kidlington, back towards peartree. Stationary in heavy traffic ever rush hour. And time scale , now the local plan has passed the entry deadline I believe, how long till it can realistically now be added to it.
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Post by grenobleroad on Feb 16, 2017 21:36:58 GMT
Again Charlie I've never said it would be easy, or that WE doesn't have very good points. Superb in fact. A dream scenario. Yet it doesn't have one thing and still doesn't look like it will get it, a stadium ! I do love that you still think there are oufc fans that wouldn't want it. Another exit off of the corporate parking would cut a lot of cars trying to merge into the main drag. Not that difficult could even be left turn only then using the roundabout by holiday to turn around. Same with making parking at uni part with shuttle buses in, not hard to organise. Train station has been given the go ahead, and with development to the growing science park would make sense. Who would get it up and running? I dunno, who got oxford park way up and running ? Again you go with the "I'm only interested in the Kassam". Not at all, it's pointless me pointing out the plus points for WE you have done it constantly for 3 years in essay after essay, I doubt there is anything else that could possibly be said on the benefits Here's one for you though, we are all well aware of the down sides of the Kassam. (Some of them not quite the issues they are made out to be) Could you list 5 faults with WE ,major hurdles even. As no site is perfect, yet I don't think I have once seen u mention anything other than the positives. I can think of 3 ,might not be correct (but I'm sure you will clear that up ) The fact that road infrastructure is likely to be around £15/20m before the ground even starts, im told just the Access to the new Barton village is costing over £5m. Paid for by the developers. And that's a pretty simple turn off. The pinch point coming out of Kidlington, back towards peartree. Stationary in heavy traffic ever rush hour. And time scale , now the local plan has passed the entry deadline I believe, how long till it can realistically now be added to it. Out of interest if I arrive at the car park behind the East stand at 1 o'clock when we are in the championship and find the car park full does that mean I then can't go to the other car park as I have to turn left? Also if we have a main road coming out of the corporate parking then where will the players/team bus park? I have no idea if the train station "is on the way" to the science park but we can agree that it wouldn't be a major train station just something they might use to filter workers in sporadically during the day? Are they going to put on extra trains for us on a match day? Or will it be like coventrys fabulous train station outside their ground? Just a bit of balance to the argument.
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Post by oufcyellows on Feb 16, 2017 21:43:42 GMT
No idea why you couldn't just drive to the other carpark like normal The access from the car park would only need to be two cars width and could be opposite the ox statue, just so not to effect the team bus (which doesn't park there anyway) and the players I believe as well as staff have to park in the normal car park to free up corporate spaces. Not to mention the inconvenience of having to change you're name to Oxford road Train station, I have no idea, again I'm not against WE I'm just countering some of the arguments that are used against the Kassam. Would oxford park way have trains running at times designed for football crowds on sat and tue, I have no idea. With the Kassam I think a lot is based on what it is now, but it could be so so much better. And quickly without much expense . Better than a purpose built dream stadium - no of course not. But again that's still not and never has been considered a serious option by any chairman or by oxvox doing a serious study into both sites
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Post by sideshowrob on Feb 16, 2017 21:47:43 GMT
As the car parks lie at the moment another exit along road down the back of the the Priory would be easy to arrange. This could work as a one way only exit to drain the overflow car park. At present two small concrete bollards prevent this from happening. Then there is the gate in front of the south west corner of the stadium. It always amuses me that these days a steward stands in front of this to prevent even pedestrians leaving by it, thus making everyone paddle through the mud and bushes at the side to reach Grenoble Road. These two potential exits would not be a complete solution but would certainly help.
The station could be built and it has been stated that it could be ready within three years. The track is up to scratch and a software solution exists for the complex signalling problems around the Hinksey Junction. Whether Chilern railways are serious in their intentions to complete this section of the east-west line, only time will tell.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Feb 16, 2017 21:56:04 GMT
I think the perception of you have to drive to the stadium has become ingrained. It's just not practical from where I live (and for last night work), but I suspect a lot of people within Oxford drive and could, if transport links improve and it becomes a convenience, use the bus to get to the ground over the car. Yes, but fewer than 20 per cent of our supporters come from Oxford, and diminishing. That is not where the growth is going to come from. The growth is in Bicester/ Banbury/ Witney/ Didcot. Then of course the next steps are filling in the travel gaps from the satellite towns/villages - something the club and councils can do in a partnership. This would be more sustainable with higher attendances would it not? Of course higher average crowds means some other facilities such as schools could open their car parks/play grounds up as they can make a consistent profit from it. All small parts in the overall picture.
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Post by grenobleroad on Feb 16, 2017 21:57:10 GMT
No idea why you couldn't just drive to the other carpark like normal The access from the car park would only need to be two cars width and could be opposite the ox statue, just so not to effect the team bus (which doesn't park there anyway) and the players I believe as well as staff have to park in the normal car park to free up corporate spaces. Not to mention the inconvenience of having to change you're name to Oxford road Train station, I have no idea, again I'm not against WE I'm just countering some of the arguments that are used against the Kassam. Would oxford park way have trains running at times designed for football crowds on sat and tue, I have no idea. With the Kassam I think a lot is based on what it is now, but it could be so so much better. And quickly without much expense . Better than a purpose built dream stadium - no of course not. But again that's still not and never has been considered a serious option by any chairman or by oxvox doing a serious study into both sites Ah now I know where you mean. The players park opposite the ticket office. Where you said would be an issue for the people traffic and probably wouldn't help the flow. The post above mentions behind the priory. Not 100 percent sure how the land works but that is the sort of road that would free it up a bit. Oxford parkway is up and running and has trains running in and out from 6am to midnight so that's not a issue. It's a proper train station so to speak. That's my main concern about the science park one. As for changing my name. No problem!
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Post by scoob on Feb 16, 2017 22:32:17 GMT
I have to drive. The problem isn't with the amount of parking at the stadium. The problem is where to park when that is full. Unlike town centre stadia, there are no obvious other car parks or side roads even if you accept you are going to have a 15-25 minute walk. I know some clever dicks will reply that they always manage to park in some obscure place 2 minutes walk away... For those fans (home or away) who aren't that familiar with the area that isn't an option. And I doubt there are loads of spare spots in your hidey holes anyway! The club needs to arrange something for big games. Rent a farmers field (or use UniPart like we did a few seasons ago) and put on some shuttle busses, get local schools to rent out their car parks. There surely must be something. I've looked at this a fair few times but looking at a satellite image of the area around the stadium there are many potential parking areas within 15 minutes walk of the stadium. They may or may not be possible but need to be explored. Examples: Science Park is obvious but has always been blocked. Thee are hundreds of spaces including multi level car parks. The Academy has a hundred or more hard parking spaces that are probably not used at match times. There is also a large playing field at this site that is double the size of the overflow car park. I believe that it was available for parking for the end of season party held prior to the last game of last season. There were a few cars parked there. It is accessed through the Littlemore estate which currently has virtually no traffic going through it approaching match times. Whether it would be suitable during a wet winter would need to be assessed. There are also hard courts that could be used? I have parked on school hard courts at several grounds (Spurs, Villa, Birmingham) in the past. There is an industrial estate off Sandy Lane with some large hard parking areas. Again probably not used at match times and access via a road that is currently lttile used. There are other sports pitches close to the Ring Road/Sandy Lane. As you mentioned here is the Unipart Car Park (is it still Unipart). If it is the one I can see on the Sat image then it is huge and would appear to lend itself to a park and ride scheme. It the overflow goes then there will be relatively few spaces at the ground and along Grenoble Road (except Science Park) and these will fill early. There will not be the congestion currently caused by the pedestrian crossing by the Cinema which causes slow access and tail backs onto Grenoble Road and beyond. This should free up Grenoble Road for busses. All of the existing Park and Ride sites could be used. Busses could run from Seacourt via Abingdon Road and Pear Tree via the East Park and Ride (forgot name). Charlton run (or at least used to run when I lived in Kent) busses from as far away as Hastings and Ashford (both 60 miles from The Valley) to their ground when I lived in Kent. This would be the equivalent of Stratford, Northampton, Winchester(?) in our area. All options and many more that will need to be explored. I was told at one point in the past that Kassam was considering a multi storey if he had to provide more spaces (very unlikely) Maybe we need a Vegas Style 24 Hour Casino with huge multi Car park attached to the ground (he he)
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 16, 2017 23:20:15 GMT
No idea why you couldn't just drive to the other carpark like normal The access from the car park would only need to be two cars width and could be opposite the ox statue, just so not to effect the team bus (which doesn't park there anyway) and the players I believe as well as staff have to park in the normal car park to free up corporate spaces. Not to mention the inconvenience of having to change you're name to Oxford road Train station, I have no idea, again I'm not against WE I'm just countering some of the arguments that are used against the Kassam. Would oxford park way have trains running at times designed for football crowds on sat and tue, I have no idea. With the Kassam I think a lot is based on what it is now, but it could be so so much better. And quickly without much expense . Better than a purpose built dream stadium - no of course not. But again that's still not and never has been considered a serious option by any chairman or by oxvox doing a serious study into both sites With the best will in the world - and loving them all as I do - speaking to a junior, un-elected civil servant is not a 'serious study'. I think you may be surprised at what comes out in coming months. Probably not pleasantly so, for you. But for most fans it may be more pleasant.
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Post by charliesghost on Feb 16, 2017 23:28:52 GMT
I have to drive. The problem isn't with the amount of parking at the stadium. The problem is where to park when that is full. Unlike town centre stadia, there are no obvious other car parks or side roads even if you accept you are going to have a 15-25 minute walk. I know some clever dicks will reply that they always manage to park in some obscure place 2 minutes walk away... For those fans (home or away) who aren't that familiar with the area that isn't an option. And I doubt there are loads of spare spots in your hidey holes anyway! The club needs to arrange something for big games. Rent a farmers field (or use UniPart like we did a few seasons ago) and put on some shuttle busses, get local schools to rent out their car parks. There surely must be something. I've looked at this a fair few times but looking at a satellite image of the area around the stadium there are many potential parking areas within 15 minutes walk of the stadium. They may or may not be possible but need to be explored. Examples: Science Park is obvious but has always been blocked. Thee are hundreds of spaces including multi level car parks. The Academy has a hundred or more hard parking spaces that are probably not used at match times. There is also a large playing field at this site that is double the size of the overflow car park. I believe that it was available for parking for the end of season party held prior to the last game of last season. There were a few cars parked there. It is accessed through the Littlemore estate which currently has virtually no traffic going through it approaching match times. Whether it would be suitable during a wet winter would need to be assessed. There are also hard courts that could be used? I have parked on school hard courts at several grounds (Spurs, Villa, Birmingham) in the past. There is an industrial estate off Sandy Lane with some large hard parking areas. Again probably not used at match times and access via a road that is currently lttile used. There are other sports pitches close to the Ring Road/Sandy Lane. As you mentioned here is the Unipart Car Park (is it still Unipart). If it is the one I can see on the Sat image then it is huge and would appear to lend itself to a park and ride scheme. It the overflow goes then there will be relatively few spaces at the ground and along Grenoble Road (except Science Park) and these will fill early. There will not be the congestion currently caused by the pedestrian crossing by the Cinema which causes slow access and tail backs onto Grenoble Road and beyond. This should free up Grenoble Road for busses. All of the existing Park and Ride sites could be used. Busses could run from Seacourt via Abingdon Road and Pear Tree via the East Park and Ride (forgot name). Charlton run (or at least used to run when I lived in Kent) busses from as far away as Hastings and Ashford (both 60 miles from The Valley) to their ground when I lived in Kent. This would be the equivalent of Stratford, Northampton, Winchester(?) in our area. All options and many more that will need to be explored. I was told at one point in the past that Kassam was considering a multi storey if he had to provide more spaces (very unlikely) Maybe we need a Vegas Style 24 Hour Casino with huge multi Car park attached to the ground (he he) Yup - he was considering a multi-storey (2 in fact), until he found out that they would cost 10 million quid, which would wipe out most of the development upside and be virtually unused outside matchdays (they depend for their ROI in near-constant use)! Then he changed his mind, swiftly. They are also supremely unsuitable for scenarios where everyone wants to arrive and leave at the same time. Come on. Think. Imagine. There is something in what you say about ancillary parking, on a 'needs-must' basis. We looked at several of those sites. Oxford Academy has 100 spaces, from memory. And there are little other pockets here and there. The buses have been tried and failed, but one might just have to run them as loss-leaders. It is going to amuse and bemuse me watching everyone go over all this ground again, years after we did it the first time. It's one of the sad things in life that everyone has to make their own mistakes. And once someone, somewhere has to foot the bill for 10 million to upgrade an unsatisfactory stadium in an unsatisfactory place, finally the penny will drop. It's not as if we didn't all start from hoping and believing that we could just tweak a few things here and there....
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Feb 16, 2017 23:40:24 GMT
I'm not sure that all of us (well, me anyway!) are trying to say that the current stadium is perfect or preferable to a new build. But it is not entirely outside the bounds of possibility that we will be in the Championship while at the current venue. In that case you would hope for larger crowds, both home and away fans, and thus would need to ensure (especially if some of the existing car park space was either being built on as some part of the deal with Kassam or a fourth stand was eating up the room) that people could get to the stadium somehow!
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