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Post by behindthegoal on Dec 10, 2016 19:40:08 GMT
You said the fans were told, that's what I'm asking about. By who? I know it's in the ground regs but you make it sound as if it's come from Oufc . Apologies if that wasn't the case. I'm a fan and nobody told me. It was stated before the season not to fly flags during the game...perhaps thats why we haven't seen flags flying up until now...most know about it.
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Post by thehorse on Dec 10, 2016 19:42:00 GMT
The explanation on the radio sounded very much like a toys out of the pram reaction, "we don't like being told what to do" was one quote. The banners etc are great but waving the big flag as the game goes on isn't ideal, in fact I'm glad my seat is further down so it doesn't get in my way. Taking them all down and leaving the ground as protest is a little childish, just stick to the request the club has made (as alluded to on radio ox after the call) and you have no problem. It comes across to me that a certain group of people want to be able to do whatever they want no matter what the club and other supporters feelings are and then feel hard done by when they are pulled up on it. While I understand what you're saying, I think you're being a little unfair. Don't forget what the Ultra boys do for the club in improving the atmosphere. They go to a lot of effort, and some of the displays are done at their own expense. I don't disagree, but doing things for the club, doesn't make you exempt from the requests the club have made re: flying flags during the game, or that you should be able to turn up whenever you want at an away game and have everyone else move because ethey are sat where you want to sit..... Sometimes you don't get what you want, if this happens, take it on the chin and get over it...... don't chuck your toys out and refuse to watch the remainder of the game, I hadn't realised they'd left so it didn't. And any difference to the general atmosphere at the game so the only ones who lose out from this "protest" are themselves as they missed a good second half and a cracking goal.
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Post by followtheox (the original) on Dec 10, 2016 19:42:11 GMT
The odd thing about this is there have been big games where the club have provided/allowed every seat to have a flag as part of the display.
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Post by grenobleroad on Dec 10, 2016 19:43:40 GMT
The odd thing about this is there have been big games where the club have provided/allowed every seat to have a flag as part of the display. This is what I can't get my head around either. Also I will join the group of people unaware of the banning of flag waving in the game.
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Post by behindthegoal on Dec 10, 2016 19:45:53 GMT
The odd thing about this is there have been big games where the club have provided/allowed every seat to have a flag as part of the display. Yes..to fly them....but NOT DURING PLAY!!!! I love the flags..banners and what our fans do to get the atmosphere...but oufc asked not to fly during play!!
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Post by blox21 on Dec 10, 2016 19:47:58 GMT
This is just another example of modern day football . It stinks !!! You've got health and safety gone mad , I expect some poor sole complained that their view was restricted for 2 seconds , the storm troopers were sent in to restore order under the command of the new safety officer who is probably out to make a name for himself ! f*ck off just let the fans police it themselves !
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Post by ladylangton on Dec 10, 2016 19:49:23 GMT
Whatever the rights and wrongs (and I didn't know about the flag rules either) it was handled ineptly by the stewards/safety officers. Letting it go today and setting some clear rules in a less frenzied atmosphere would have been better, albeit less dramatic.
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 10, 2016 19:49:59 GMT
The explanation on the radio sounded very much like a toys out of the pram reaction, "we don't like being told what to do" was one quote. The banners etc are great but waving the big flag as the game goes on isn't ideal, in fact I'm glad my seat is further down so it doesn't get in my way. Taking them all down and leaving the ground as protest is a little childish, just stick to the request the club has made (as alluded to on radio ox after the call) and you have no problem. It comes across to me that a certain group of people want to be able to do whatever they want no matter what the club and other supporters feelings are and then feel hard done by when they are pulled up on it. "Toys out of the pram" was my immediate reaction as well, but how else to make a visible protest? The Ultras have are far more a part of the club than any journeyman safety officer who wants to make a mark before moving on somewhere else, and I know where my sympathy lies. The flag was right at the back of the stand, and as far as I know noone had complained about it (and even if they had they could have moved to another seat with just as good view). As Jerome sale said, the management need to aply a bit of common sense here, and the sooner the better.
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Post by oufcyellows on Dec 10, 2016 19:51:12 GMT
Whatever the rights and wrongs (and I didn't know about the flag rules either) it was handled ineptly by the stewards/safety officers. Letting it go today and setting some clear rules in a less frenzied atmosphere would have been better, albeit less dramatic. Although a steward asking to stop waving it during play, and the person saying ok would have also been less dramatic, if it's a rule that has been largely know about.
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Post by holdsteady on Dec 10, 2016 19:54:52 GMT
I am no way an "ultra", think it's an embarrassing thing for any English football fan to call themselves, but how bad has going to football got that waving a flag about has become a big deal, I don't have the stats on flag related deaths but I am Guessing it's nought.
It's not like you go to football for the glamour at our level is it, go for the crack with your mates.
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Post by followtheox (the original) on Dec 10, 2016 19:56:56 GMT
The odd thing about this is there have been big games where the club have provided/allowed every seat to have a flag as part of the display. Yes..to fly them....but NOT DURING PLAY!!!! I love the flags..banners and what our fans do to get the atmosphere...but oufc asked not to fly during play!! Well I don't recall ever hearing that announcement but may have missed it.
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Post by yellowshark on Dec 10, 2016 20:16:51 GMT
Yes..to fly them....but NOT DURING PLAY!!!! I love the flags..banners and what our fans do to get the atmosphere...but oufc asked not to fly during play!! Well I don't recall ever hearing that announcement but may have missed it. Me neither, I do remember being told that smoking in the bogs is very naughty, that using bad language might make small chidren cry, and letting off smoke bombs will mean I'll have to stay behind after school, but the only time I've heard anything about flags is that one has been placed in my seat and please wave it as hard as you can to get behind our boys. Am I missing something?
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Post by oufcyellows on Dec 10, 2016 20:22:47 GMT
Well I don't recall ever hearing that announcement but may have missed it. Me neither, I do remember being told that smoking in the bogs is very naughty, that using bad language might make small chidren cry, and letting off smoke bombs will mean I'll have to stay behind after school, but the only time I've heard anything about flags is that one has been placed in my seat and please wave it as hard as you can to get behind our boys. Am I missing something? It needs stamping out, I was watching the grand prix the other day, the leader was just coming up to a very important part about to cross the line, and some f*cking ultra lent over the barrier and started waving a bloody flag in his face. Dangerous or what
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Post by lucabrasi on Dec 10, 2016 20:23:56 GMT
Right, so we've always had a good relationship with the stewards who are there permanently, Roger, Howard etc. There's a good dynamic that keeps all happy. Today was different from the start, I got a flag up before the players came out, to be immediately approached by a yellowcoat, "You're not going to wave that if we score are you?" I replied something along the lines off, 'to be quite honest I have no idea, I might be 7 or 8 rows away going nuts, I might wave it, why?" to be told "Upstairs don't want you to, people don't like it" This set the alarm bells ringing a bit, (pure conjecture here) but somewhere it must have been said in a briefing or similar, that the waving of flags was an issue.
The waving of flags in the stand during play is where opinion will come into this. To clarify, we're an ultras group, we fundamentally believe that flags should be allowed to be waved at all times, providing it's in the 'section'. We've been operating in the same area of the stadium for nearly 8 years now, its not a large area, it probably takes over about 10 seats wide, across the back 4 or 5 rows. I would like to think its pretty common knowledge that's where we stand and do our thing. I'll also state that at times in the past, when non regulars to the section have been in there, I've told other members to keep flags down at times. Of course we want to be able to have action going for the 90 minutes, but we also respect that we aren't the only fans in the stadium, and at times, tickets may be purchased within the section with no knowledge of us or what we try to do. It's a pretty obvious situation to manage, and I'd like to think we've been pretty good at managing it within ourselves for all of the 8 years we've been up there.
A mere minute or two in to the match today, and a flag was still being waved, I was stood directly behind it, and to my apparent knowledge no fan had asked the person who was waving it to cease. The same steward who had spoken to me was straight in there, rather forcefully making his way in there and speaking to him. I don't know what was said to him, but I then picked up another flag and started waving it on the back row (obscuring no fans view) in solidarity. I'd say it's more common than not that we've had a flag still being waved a few minutes into the game. We want to build an atmosphere, I find it hard to imagine that any other fan has ever had a real issue with this. Pretty quickly other yellow coats were up there and the rhetoric from them went rather quickly to "the police are on their way and you're going to be ejected". The decision was made between us pretty quickly, that considering the vast time effort we've always put in (and will continue to do so) the seemingly unnecessary hurdles we seem to periodically encounter (there have been other somewhat bizarre instances we've faced when setting up displays etc.) and the rather 'taken for granted' attitude we've seemed to had towards us, that we would take the banners down and leave the match. Without wanting to sound holier than thou (we're all supporting the same club) we feel we do a f*ck lot for the support of this football club, there comes a point when faced with enough, we'll end up feeling 'is it worth it?' and find something else to do. By removing ourselves from today's game was perhaps a little show of what the stadium would look and sound like without us.
There was no dialogue prior to the game, such as "Oh today lads you must have your flags down the moment the match kicks off" it escalated straight to put them down or you'll be ejected. I must stress this was from yellowcoats, but something must have been said to them to do this, probably stemming from the change of head of safety officer. Pure conjecture again, but while the ex head was still here, any concerns they had about minor issues such as this, they bought to us outside of match time. "Oh lads help us out a bit here by telling people around to try and keep out of the gangways as much as possible" as an example. To be fair to Roger (long term steward, perfect working relationship with him), he came up and basically said what we were all thinking, 'why's this even become an issue? this has always worked fine between us?' But for many of us the damage had been done by the apparent decision from "upstairs" for a heavy handed approach to it, so the decision was made that we'd remove any OU09 presence from the game. We don't expect to have any preferential treatment or the like, but don't strangle out our passion for it with heavy-handed and brash power shows, because ultimately we'll just stop doing it. We certainly carry the atmosphere at home games, so hopefully the "upstairs" realise what they'd lose without us.
Peace. OU09.
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Post by thehorse on Dec 10, 2016 20:24:24 GMT
I am no way an "ultra", think it's an embarrassing thing for any English football fan to call themselves, but how bad has going to football got that waving a flag about has become a big deal, I don't have the stats on flag related deaths but I am Guessing it's nought. It's not like you go to football for the glamour at our level is it, go for the crack with your mates. I don't think waving the flag was a big deal, isn't it more that the reaction afterwards turned it into one? Had they just done as asked and not made a scene, 5£3 it would have gone as unnoticed as all the other interactions stewards have with fans at games.
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Post by Eaststandboy on Dec 10, 2016 20:25:12 GMT
From what I made of it...
The Ultras have been allowed to take the big flag into the stadium as long as it's not waved during the game. For some reason today they decided to wave it during...
I noticed a few Ultras push each other, one stormed out pushing people Over...
After this, they decided to pull all banners down. Which made the club look bad IMO
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Post by oufcyellows on Dec 10, 2016 20:32:24 GMT
Right, so we've always had a good relationship with the stewards who are there permanently, Roger, Howard etc. There's a good dynamic that keeps all happy. Today was different from the start, I got a flag up before the players came out, to be immediately approached by a yellowcoat, "You're not going to wave that if we score are you?" I replied something along the lines off, 'to be quite honest I have no idea, I might be 7 or 8 rows away going nuts, I might wave it, why?" to be told "Upstairs don't want you to, people don't like it" This set the alarm bells ringing a bit, (pure conjecture here) but somewhere it must have been said in a briefing or similar, that the waving of flags was an issue. The waving of flags in the stand during play is where opinion will come into this. To clarify, we're an ultras group, we fundamentally believe that flags should be allowed to be waved at all times, providing it's in the 'section'. We've been operating in the same area of the stadium for nearly 8 years now, its not a large area, it probably takes over about 10 seats wide, across the back 4 or 5 rows. I would like to think its pretty common knowledge that's where we stand and do our thing. I'll also state that at times in the past, when non regulars to the section have been in there, I've told other members to keep flags down at times. Of course we want to be able to have action going for the 90 minutes, but we also respect that we aren't the only fans in the stadium, and at times, tickets may be purchased within the section with no knowledge of us or what we try to do. It's a pretty obvious situation to manage, and I'd like to think we've been pretty good at managing it within ourselves for all of the 8 years we've been up there. A mere minute or two in to the match today, and a flag was still being waved, I was stood directly behind it, and to my apparent knowledge no fan had asked the person who was waving it to cease. The same steward who had spoken to me was straight in there, rather forcefully making his way in there and speaking to him. I don't know what was said to him, but I then picked up another flag and started waving it on the back row (obscuring no fans view) in solidarity. I'd say it's more common than not that we've had a flag still being waved a few minutes into the game. We want to build an atmosphere, I find it hard to imagine that any other fan has ever had a real issue with this. Pretty quickly other yellow coats were up there and the rhetoric from them went rather quickly to "the police are on their way and you're going to be ejected". The decision was made between us pretty quickly, that considering the vast time effort we've always put in (and will continue to do so) the seemingly unnecessary hurdles we seem to periodically encounter (there have been other somewhat bizarre instances we've faced when setting up displays etc.) and the rather 'taken for granted' attitude we've seemed to had towards us, that we would take the banners down and leave the match. Without wanting to sound holier than thou (we're all supporting the same club) we feel we do a f*ck lot for the support of this football club, there comes a point when faced with enough, we'll end up feeling 'is it worth it?' and find something else to do. By removing ourselves from today's game was perhaps a little show of what the stadium would look and sound like without us. There was no dialogue prior to the game, such as "Oh today lads you must have your flags down the moment the match kicks off" it escalated straight to put them down or you'll be ejected. I must stress this was from yellowcoats, but something must have been said to them to do this, probably stemming from the change of head of safety officer. Pure conjecture again, but while the ex head was still here, any concerns they had about minor issues such as this, they bought to us outside of match time. "Oh lads help us out a bit here by telling people around to try and keep out of the gangways as much as possible" as an example. To be fair to Roger (long term steward, perfect working relationship with him), he came up and basically said what we were all thinking, 'why's this even become an issue? this has always worked fine between us?' But for many of us the damage had been done by the apparent decision from "upstairs" for a heavy handed approach to it, so the decision was made that we'd remove any OU09 presence from the game. We don't expect to have any preferential treatment or the like, but don't strangle out our passion for it with heavy-handed and brash power shows, because ultimately we'll just stop doing it. We certainly carry the atmosphere at home games, so hopefully the "upstairs" realise what they'd lose without us. Peace. OU09. Didn't need to miss the game though did u? The threat of police and expulsion for flag waving is pathetic, And ur right the stand looked very bland and dull with the flags gone, atmosphere I'm not so convince thought it was still pretty decent right up to the final whistle. Taking the flags down I can understand if u felt u needed to make ur point, but why walk out?
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Post by sirmatty on Dec 10, 2016 20:36:09 GMT
Blimey can't believe all the fuss over a bit of flag waving I'm more worried about the fact we lost 2 points today Coyy
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Post by essexyellows on Dec 10, 2016 20:36:28 GMT
Teenage strop meets stroppy bouncers on day work. Never going to end well is it?
Just grow a pair & get over it.
As an aside them orange & yellow coated knob jockeys would have got slaughtered in the LRT.
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Post by Eaststandboy on Dec 10, 2016 20:37:41 GMT
The banners didn't need to be removed though.
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Post by lucabrasi on Dec 10, 2016 20:38:04 GMT
Right, so we've always had a good relationship with the stewards who are there permanently, Roger, Howard etc. There's a good dynamic that keeps all happy. Today was different from the start, I got a flag up before the players came out, to be immediately approached by a yellowcoat, "You're not going to wave that if we score are you?" I replied something along the lines off, 'to be quite honest I have no idea, I might be 7 or 8 rows away going nuts, I might wave it, why?" to be told "Upstairs don't want you to, people don't like it" This set the alarm bells ringing a bit, (pure conjecture here) but somewhere it must have been said in a briefing or similar, that the waving of flags was an issue. The waving of flags in the stand during play is where opinion will come into this. To clarify, we're an ultras group, we fundamentally believe that flags should be allowed to be waved at all times, providing it's in the 'section'. We've been operating in the same area of the stadium for nearly 8 years now, its not a large area, it probably takes over about 10 seats wide, across the back 4 or 5 rows. I would like to think its pretty common knowledge that's where we stand and do our thing. I'll also state that at times in the past, when non regulars to the section have been in there, I've told other members to keep flags down at times. Of course we want to be able to have action going for the 90 minutes, but we also respect that we aren't the only fans in the stadium, and at times, tickets may be purchased within the section with no knowledge of us or what we try to do. It's a pretty obvious situation to manage, and I'd like to think we've been pretty good at managing it within ourselves for all of the 8 years we've been up there. A mere minute or two in to the match today, and a flag was still being waved, I was stood directly behind it, and to my apparent knowledge no fan had asked the person who was waving it to cease. The same steward who had spoken to me was straight in there, rather forcefully making his way in there and speaking to him. I don't know what was said to him, but I then picked up another flag and started waving it on the back row (obscuring no fans view) in solidarity. I'd say it's more common than not that we've had a flag still being waved a few minutes into the game. We want to build an atmosphere, I find it hard to imagine that any other fan has ever had a real issue with this. Pretty quickly other yellow coats were up there and the rhetoric from them went rather quickly to "the police are on their way and you're going to be ejected". The decision was made between us pretty quickly, that considering the vast time effort we've always put in (and will continue to do so) the seemingly unnecessary hurdles we seem to periodically encounter (there have been other somewhat bizarre instances we've faced when setting up displays etc.) and the rather 'taken for granted' attitude we've seemed to had towards us, that we would take the banners down and leave the match. Without wanting to sound holier than thou (we're all supporting the same club) we feel we do a f*ck lot for the support of this football club, there comes a point when faced with enough, we'll end up feeling 'is it worth it?' and find something else to do. By removing ourselves from today's game was perhaps a little show of what the stadium would look and sound like without us. There was no dialogue prior to the game, such as "Oh today lads you must have your flags down the moment the match kicks off" it escalated straight to put them down or you'll be ejected. I must stress this was from yellowcoats, but something must have been said to them to do this, probably stemming from the change of head of safety officer. Pure conjecture again, but while the ex head was still here, any concerns they had about minor issues such as this, they bought to us outside of match time. "Oh lads help us out a bit here by telling people around to try and keep out of the gangways as much as possible" as an example. To be fair to Roger (long term steward, perfect working relationship with him), he came up and basically said what we were all thinking, 'why's this even become an issue? this has always worked fine between us?' But for many of us the damage had been done by the apparent decision from "upstairs" for a heavy handed approach to it, so the decision was made that we'd remove any OU09 presence from the game. We don't expect to have any preferential treatment or the like, but don't strangle out our passion for it with heavy-handed and brash power shows, because ultimately we'll just stop doing it. We certainly carry the atmosphere at home games, so hopefully the "upstairs" realise what they'd lose without us. Peace. OU09. Didn't need to miss the game though did u? The threat of police and expulsion for flag waving is pathetic, And ur right the stand looked very bland and dull with the flags gone, atmosphere I'm not so convince thought it was still pretty decent right up to the final whistle. Taking the flags down I can understand if u felt u needed to make ur point, but why walk out? To be honest I didn't really feel like sticking around after the apparent two fingers from 'upstairs' Made me question why I even bothered. I've done around 28 hours work towards a future display this week. Felt like going back and pouring paint all over it.
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Post by bbl1 on Dec 10, 2016 20:38:21 GMT
I'm with the ultras 100% . What is wrong in football to show passion and show your pride in your team... With this the little men in orange and bright yellow jackets think they can push people around when all they are doing is supporting their team.
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Post by oufcyellows on Dec 10, 2016 20:40:11 GMT
Didn't need to miss the game though did u? The threat of police and expulsion for flag waving is pathetic, And ur right the stand looked very bland and dull with the flags gone, atmosphere I'm not so convince thought it was still pretty decent right up to the final whistle. Taking the flags down I can understand if u felt u needed to make ur point, but why walk out? To be honest I didn't really feel like sticking around after the apparent two fingers from 'upstairs' Made me question why I even bothered. I've done around 28 hours work towards a future display this week. Felt like going back and pouring paint all over it. Who are they implying "upstairs" is. As I looked along to de and gbt as the flags were coming down and they looked as shocked and Mystified as the rest of us
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Post by oxy on Dec 10, 2016 20:41:20 GMT
What about blocking the back of the north stand now after every match is this because of the new stadium manager?
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Post by lucabrasi on Dec 10, 2016 20:41:35 GMT
The banners didn't need to be removed though. Quite the contrary I think they did, we get in there at 9am to put them up every saturday. We don't have to do that, none of us enjoy pegging up smelly material in the cold. That's what the stadium would look like if we didn't bother, which it seems people forget, we do bother, every week.
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Post by Eaststandboy on Dec 10, 2016 20:43:47 GMT
The banners didn't need to be removed though. Quite the contrary I think they did, we get in there at 9am to put them up every saturday. We don't have to do that, none of us enjoy pegging up smelly material in the cold. That's what the stadium would look like if we didn't bother, which it seems people forget, we do bother, every week. But did the stewards tell you to take them down?
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Post by lucabrasi on Dec 10, 2016 20:44:26 GMT
To be honest I didn't really feel like sticking around after the apparent two fingers from 'upstairs' Made me question why I even bothered. I've done around 28 hours work towards a future display this week. Felt like going back and pouring paint all over it. Who are they implying "upstairs" is. As I looked along to de and gbt as the flags were coming down and they looked as shocked and Mystified as the rest of us There-in lies the perfect reason for what we did, if they looked shocked and mystified hopefully they can have a quiet word with whoever decided to come in heavy, that it's unnecessary.
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Post by oufcyellows on Dec 10, 2016 20:46:14 GMT
Who are they implying "upstairs" is. As I looked along to de and gbt as the flags were coming down and they looked as shocked and Mystified as the rest of us There-in lies the perfect reason for what we did, if they looked shocked and mystified hopefully they can have a quiet word with whoever decided to come in heavy, that it's unnecessary. Fair point. Obviously u guys are allowed up there by the club, would they let u wave the flags up there, so there can't be any issue with supposed blocking of view of hitting anyone with it?
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Post by foley on Dec 10, 2016 20:47:20 GMT
Well whatever happened it ruined the first half and seemed OTT. I know that FK couldn't care a f*** but the supporters pay our money and the Ultras do a fantastic job in my view. I went to a couple of German games recently and there were thousands of flags being waved throughout the whole game(s). Really is our health and safety more tight that the Germans? If their flags (big ones) are less dangerous than a few at Oxford WTF? I am just a little cynical when hearing that there is a new safety officer. Is he a H&S hitler or (probably totally unfair) a FK way to wind everybody up? Regardless totally over the top - maybe we should stop having fun at football (go back to the CW/IA days )
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Post by Eaststandboy on Dec 10, 2016 20:47:32 GMT
There-in lies the perfect reason for what we did, if they looked shocked and mystified hopefully they can have a quiet word with whoever decided to come in heavy, that it's unnecessary. Fair point. Obviously u guys are allowed up there by the club, would they let u wave the flags up there, so there can't be any issue with supposed blocking of view of hitting anyone with it? Or even have them at the back row, no one behind then...
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