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Post by Gary Baldi on May 5, 2015 22:13:59 GMT
And that's it. If ain't scoring runs, he doesn't deserve to be there. He can't say he wasn't given a chance to get his place back.
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Post by East Challow Yellow on May 6, 2015 6:13:48 GMT
I understand the points raised and there is meat on the bones which would support the opinion that he hasn't scored enough runs yet to warrant a recall. Although his game time has been limited this season to date as Surrey haven't played many games. Perhaps bell to start the NZ test series is correct (I did say it was a close call!).
However, IMO KP should never have been dropped/sacked after the Aus tour. It was a failure on behalf of the management set up that they couldn't manage a maverick, a superstar, a player who enjoyed being in the public eye and being a celebrity..
Come the ashes, I would bet my last penny that Australia would prefer to face our England side without KP in it. They would prefer to have one less, genuine game changer against them.
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Post by Junior on May 6, 2015 7:20:31 GMT
I understand the points raised and there is meat on the bones which would support the opinion that he hasn't scored enough runs yet to warrant a recall. Although his game time has been limited this season to date as Surrey haven't played many games. Perhaps bell to start the NZ test series is correct (I did say it was a close call!). However, IMO KP should never have been dropped/sacked after the Aus tour. It was a failure on behalf of the management set up that they couldn't manage a maverick, a superstar, a player who enjoyed being in the public eye and being a celebrity.. Come the ashes, I would bet my last penny that Australia would prefer to face our England side without KP in it. They would prefer to have one less, genuine game changer against them. Do you think it was acceptable for him to text the opposition abusing our then captain? As Strauss has said him doing that had a massive effect on the team sprit and closeness they had got in the previous 3 years..
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Post by East Challow Yellow on May 6, 2015 7:24:51 GMT
I understand the points raised and there is meat on the bones which would support the opinion that he hasn't scored enough runs yet to warrant a recall. Although his game time has been limited this season to date as Surrey haven't played many games. Perhaps bell to start the NZ test series is correct (I did say it was a close call!). However, IMO KP should never have been dropped/sacked after the Aus tour. It was a failure on behalf of the management set up that they couldn't manage a maverick, a superstar, a player who enjoyed being in the public eye and being a celebrity.. Come the ashes, I would bet my last penny that Australia would prefer to face our England side without KP in it. They would prefer to have one less, genuine game changer against them. Do you think it was acceptable for him to text the opposition abusing our then captain? As Strauss has said him doing that had a massive effect on the team sprit and closeness they had got in the previous 3 years.. That wasn't why he was sacked after the Aus tour though, was it? Text gate happened in the years previous and the team/management accepted KP back in the team - subject to a successful re-integration process, a process KP successfully completed.
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Post by Lone Gunman on May 6, 2015 12:27:43 GMT
I understand the points raised and there is meat on the bones which would support the opinion that he hasn't scored enough runs yet to warrant a recall. Although his game time has been limited this season to date as Surrey haven't played many games. Perhaps bell to start the NZ test series is correct (I did say it was a close call!). However, IMO KP should never have been dropped/sacked after the Aus tour. It was a failure on behalf of the management set up that they couldn't manage a maverick, a superstar, a player who enjoyed being in the public eye and being a celebrity.. Come the ashes, I would bet my last penny that Australia would prefer to face our England side without KP in it. They would prefer to have one less, genuine game changer against them. Remind me how many games he changed on that tour? Or the series in England that preceded it for that matter. The fact is that the argument of KP's supporters always boils down to 'on his day he wins you the game single handed' which is why they are prepared to sacrifice the rest of the team for this one individual. But when was the last time KP had one of those days?
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Post by Gary Baldi on May 6, 2015 12:59:08 GMT
It's a fair point. One that can be asked of a lot of other players in the team as well. Root, Anderson and Bell have done that. Broad and Ballance, kind of. It get to the heart of why England are such a mechanical team.
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Post by East Challow Yellow on May 6, 2015 13:15:01 GMT
I understand the points raised and there is meat on the bones which would support the opinion that he hasn't scored enough runs yet to warrant a recall. Although his game time has been limited this season to date as Surrey haven't played many games. Perhaps bell to start the NZ test series is correct (I did say it was a close call!). However, IMO KP should never have been dropped/sacked after the Aus tour. It was a failure on behalf of the management set up that they couldn't manage a maverick, a superstar, a player who enjoyed being in the public eye and being a celebrity.. Come the ashes, I would bet my last penny that Australia would prefer to face our England side without KP in it. They would prefer to have one less, genuine game changer against them. Remind me how many games he changed on that tour? Or the series in England that preceded it for that matter. The fact is that the argument of KP's supporters always boils down to 'on his day he wins you the game single handed' which is why they are prepared to sacrifice the rest of the team for this one individual. But when was the last time KP had one of those days? How many tests did the other players that were selected influence? His average was second, behind that of stokes. As a result, I'd say his influence with the bat was 2nd out of all those selected. Are you suggesting all the players who scored less runs should have been sacked too, as a result of not changing games and influencing the result? You mention facts, the facts are KP has scored more runs than any other player in the England side, currently.
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Post by Junior on May 6, 2015 13:25:28 GMT
Wrong. Cook has scored more.
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Post by East Challow Yellow on May 6, 2015 13:37:23 GMT
Wrong. Cook has scored more. Solely in test match cricket, cook has scored more by about 500 I believe. Overall, including 1 day internationals KP has scored more runs. Another way to look at it if you like is that KP has a better average than cook. That said, I really rate Ali cook so his place shouldn't be in question as an opening batsman. As a captain though, well that's a different discussion all together.
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Post by Junior on May 6, 2015 13:48:20 GMT
This is about test matches, not odi.. Shall we talk about KP and his captaincy..
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Post by East Challow Yellow on May 6, 2015 13:58:02 GMT
Just tests is fine.
Congratulations to Cook, he has scored more runs than KP having played more tests.
What about the other batsmen in the test side, do you want to compare their averages aswell, or not?
KP couldn't captain, correct. Although neither could Botham or flintoff and they weren't bad players/mavericks were they, junior?
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Post by Lone Gunman on May 6, 2015 15:11:02 GMT
Remind me how many games he changed on that tour? Or the series in England that preceded it for that matter. The fact is that the argument of KP's supporters always boils down to 'on his day he wins you the game single handed' which is why they are prepared to sacrifice the rest of the team for this one individual. But when was the last time KP had one of those days? How many tests did the other players that were selected influence? His average was second, behind that of stokes. As a result, I'd say his influence with the bat was 2nd out of all those selected. Are you suggesting all the players who scored less runs should have been sacked too, as a result of not changing games and influencing the result? You mention facts, the facts are KP has scored more runs than any other player in the England side, currently. All the players don't have the negative influence on the team that KP has. He is a clown, and he would turn the England team into a circus just like he always does. To overcome that problem his performances have to be consistently outstanding or he's more trouble than he's worth. They aren't that now, and they weren't that on the last Aussie tour. Therefore he doesn't justify his place.
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Post by SteMerritt on May 6, 2015 18:50:15 GMT
Just tests is fine. Congratulations to Cook, he has scored more runs than KP having played more tests. What about the other batsmen in the test side, do you want to compare their averages aswell, or not? KP couldn't captain, correct. Although neither could Botham or flintoff and they weren't bad players/mavericks were they, junior? Compare test and 4-day averages over the last year. Oh, KP hasn't played any apart from 4 innings for Surrey this season. You simply cannot pick a player who has played 4 innings in a year, and not done anything special in them. It is (in my opinion ) frankly a ridiculous suggestion to pick him at this time. As has been said by others, if he knuckles down and scores a sackful of runs for Surrey whilst the England middle order struggles against NZ then maybe we can have this discussion again. To drop Bell (2 test centuries in his last 6 test appearances I think it is) for a player who has played hardly any cricket for a year and who was patchy when he was playing (wasn't it 1 century in his last 25 test innings?) would be mad. Bell hit 3 centuries against Australia the last time they were here.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 14:07:06 GMT
Kp doing pretty well today.
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Post by nige01ox on May 11, 2015 14:27:08 GMT
against the worst side in the country that haven't won a game in the county championship since September 2012! Anyway with Strauss now in charge there's surely no chance.
Edit: now having hit a treble hundred they may just have to take note!
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Post by SteMerritt on May 11, 2015 14:45:02 GMT
Bairstow hit a 100 as well, but in Division 1.
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Post by East Challow Yellow on May 11, 2015 15:04:40 GMT
KP 177 not out
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Post by East Challow Yellow on May 11, 2015 16:39:27 GMT
KP 265 not out
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Post by oufcyellows on May 11, 2015 16:40:18 GMT
Who give a f*ck, roofe's signing woo hooooo
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 17:03:55 GMT
against the worst side in the country that haven't won a game in the county championship since September 2012! Anyway with Strauss now in charge there's surely no chance. Edit: now having hit a treble hundred they may just have to take note! I know the opposition is weak but its still impressive. Strauss hates him but if he keeps hitting runs like that.........
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Post by Junior on May 11, 2015 17:37:33 GMT
Where would he play? For bell? Nope. Ballance? Nope. Root? Nope? Ali is the conceivable player who may be dropped and he's been very good for England with bat and ball.
If for trott, Lyth or Hales deserve that chance.
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Post by MJB on May 11, 2015 18:00:34 GMT
Where would he play? For bell? Nope. Ballance? Nope. Root? Nope? Ali is the conceivable player who may be dropped and he's been very good for England with bat and ball. If for trott, Lyth or Hales deserve that chance. For himself, would be the most likely answer.
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Post by saddletramp on May 11, 2015 18:07:25 GMT
That's why they stabbed Moores in the back,he had to go before they could bring back the great ego.
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Post by East Challow Yellow on May 11, 2015 18:54:10 GMT
That's why they stabbed Moores in the back,he had to go before they could bring back the great ego. No, Moores had to go because our results haven't been anywhere near good enough under his stewardship.
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Post by Junior on May 11, 2015 19:14:11 GMT
The test series win vs India was impressive...
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Post by East Challow Yellow on May 11, 2015 19:53:03 GMT
The test series win vs India was impressive... India at home at home is a whole different proposition to playing them away. In our conditions, they rarely excel at test level. To give you a taste of results under Moores, I looked back over the past 12 months. In first class matches, England have played 38 games, of which they have won 14, drawn 3 and lost 21. Junior, if you would still like to debate Moores as coach, please put forward the mitigation.
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Post by SteMerritt on May 11, 2015 20:10:39 GMT
That's why they stabbed Moores in the back,he had to go before they could bring back the great ego. No, Moores had to go because our results haven't been anywhere near good enough under his stewardship. I have no problem with that conclusion, even if I would add Moores was more of a scapegoat for wider problems in the ECB.
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Post by East Challow Yellow on May 11, 2015 20:34:04 GMT
No, Moores had to go because our results haven't been anywhere near good enough under his stewardship. I have no problem with that conclusion, even if I would add Moores was more of a scapegoat for wider problems in the ECB. I'd agree with that to a degree.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2015 22:32:55 GMT
Strauss has said KP will NEVER play for England. Good to know we pick on merit and not on old boys style sixth form common room nonsense
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Post by andystroud on May 12, 2015 5:40:06 GMT
Strauss has said KP will NEVER play for England. Good to know we pick on merit and not on old boys style sixth form common room nonsense Unbelievably naive. Probably the one batsman that we have 'available ' that could face up to the Aussies. I'm hoping for a wet summer!
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