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Post by baldy on Oct 24, 2012 8:50:39 GMT
I have just received a call from someone who was at Rochdale. It appears we did play well for long periods but we still lost 2-0. The general feeling is that Mr Wilder has not got the ability to install confidence, motivate or make right decisions and if this is allowed to continue, a relegations fight might be just around the corner. IL should act now before crowds drop even more and we get into a right old mess. Its quite disheartening to come on here and find people who didn't go to the game moaning that its the same old...when by the sound of those who actually went - it wasn't. I know results are what matters, but from my understanding there has been a big change in performance in the last 2 games. Last night sounds closer to the Accrington performance than the PV one. We may have lost but if we continue this form the results will come. Deluded I'm afraid. Why whats going to happen ? Someone going to come along with a magic wand and it will all be alright ? Go back to the last three months of last season and the first three of this. We are rubbish, no denying it. Unlucky for a game or two, yes, but 6 months ? Wilder out.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2012 8:56:03 GMT
What so you think playing atrociously and losing is the same as playing well and losing?
The result may have been the same against Port vale and against Rochdale, but if we play like against Port Vale for the rest of the season we go down. If we play like last night we will win more often than lose.
Results might be what matter, but I think there might be a link between playing well and winning don't you?
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Post by unification on Oct 24, 2012 8:56:35 GMT
I've been saying it constantly. There's good players in the squad, but no depth. Leven, Whing and Forster-Caskey are all well and good but their talents mean little when having to carry some lower League 2/Conference standard players in Pittman, Heslop and Smalley. I think the substitution summed us up last night. CW brought off the booked but talented Potter for an out-of-position struggler in Heslop whose mistake lead to their goal.
We have talent but not enough of it. A new manager may be able to find some magic in there somewhere, but persist with CW and his tactical own goals and this side will not even threaten the top half let alone the promotion places.
Rochdale was a test after Accrington and we failed despite a good performance.
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Post by baldy on Oct 24, 2012 9:09:33 GMT
What so you think playing atrociously and losing is the same as playing well and losing? The result may have been the same against Port vale and against Rochdale, but if we play like against Port Vale for the rest of the season we go down. If we play like last night we will win more often than lose. Results might be what matter, but I think there might be a link between playing well and winning don't you? Yes, for a game or two but we have been hopelessly inconsistent, frail defensively, ponderous in midfield and impotent in attack now for 6 bloody months ! Surely you can see that. We are not just talking about the last week or two or even just this season. How long do you give someone to turn this around ? Play Wycombe off the park and lose 1-0 in the last minute what will you say then when we sit in something like 20th place - 'oh but we played well'. Bolton were nice on the eye under Coyle but they've seen the light and he's gone. West Ham pinged it around beautifully under Avram Grant but he took them down. QPR play some nice stuff, sit bottom and Hughes is under all sorts of pressure. Ipswich play some great stuff and have an abundance of flair players but the manager is hanging by a thread there because they cannot get out of a rut. We are currently in a relgation fight after finishing last season mid table. Dress that up how you like but that just is not acceptable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2012 9:21:08 GMT
Of course I can see all that, but there has been the beginnings of a turnaround in the last 5 or 6 games. We're as close to the play-offs as relegation and I think I would give it another few games and see if the improvement continues. Not saying I think Wilder is the man to take us forward long-term, but I support the owners decision at the moment.
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Post by nickcusack on Oct 24, 2012 9:24:15 GMT
What so you think playing atrociously and losing is the same as playing well and losing? The result may have been the same against Port vale and against Rochdale, but if we play like against Port Vale for the rest of the season we go down. If we play like last night we will win more often than lose. Results might be what matter, but I think there might be a link between playing well and winning don't you? Yes, for a game or two but we have been hopelessly inconsistent, frail defensively, ponderous in midfield and impotent in attack now for 6 bloody months ! Surely you can see that. We are not just talking about the last week or two or even just this season. How long do you give someone to turn this around ? Play Wycombe off the park and lose 1-0 in the last minute what will you say then when we sit in something like 20th place - 'oh but we played well'. Bolton were nice on the eye under Coyle but they've seen the light and he's gone. West Ham pinged it around beautifully under Avram Grant but he took them down. QPR play some nice stuff, sit bottom and Hughes is under all sorts of pressure. Ipswich play some great stuff and have an abundance of flair players but the manager is hanging by a thread there because they cannot get out of a rut. We are currently in a relgation fight after finishing last season mid table. Dress that up how you like but that just is not acceptable. Any comparisons from this level of football (ie the one the rest of us watch)?
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Post by baldy on Oct 24, 2012 9:30:13 GMT
Of course I can see all that, but there has been the beginnings of a turnaround in the last 5 or 6 games. We're as close to the play-offs as relegation and I think I would give it another few games and see if the improvement continues. Not saying I think Wilder is the man to take us forward long-term, but I support the owners decision at the moment. What turnaround was that ? Wimbledon would have drawn if not for a wonder save by Clarke who shouldn't have been on the field really because he was dropped and only on for the injured Brown. Gillingham bossed the game with their manager describing Clarke in the same bracket as Banks. Rotherham swatted us aside comfortably. Port Vale we were humiliated on national TV. Bradford embarrassed us at our place. I can't get over excited by a JPT win in front of one man and his dog and only the most delusional of supporters would have read anything positive in to the Accrington result in terms of our long term chances.
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Post by Mark on Oct 24, 2012 9:39:36 GMT
Of course I can see all that, but there has been the beginnings of a turnaround in the last 5 or 6 games. We're as close to the play-offs as relegation and I think I would give it another few games and see if the improvement continues. Not saying I think Wilder is the man to take us forward long-term, but I support the owners decision at the moment. What turnaround was that ? Wimbledon would have drawn if not for a wonder save by Clarke who shouldn't have been on the field really because he was dropped and only on for the injured Brown. Gillingham bossed the game with their manager describing Clarke in the same bracket as Banks. Rotherham swatted us aside comfortably. Port Vale we were humiliated on national TV. Bradford embarrassed us at our place. I can't get over excited by a JPT win in front of one man and his dog and only the most delusional of supporters would have read anything positive in to the Accrington result in terms of our long term chances. At Rotherham we had a very good chance of an equaliser at 2-1 down which was cleared off the bar/off the line, and they got the winner on the break. But I doubt you remember that. Still if it suits your agenda to make up match reports from scorelines, go for it.
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Post by Hayfield Yellow on Oct 24, 2012 9:40:43 GMT
Wimbledon would have drawn.... The usual tactic of the Wilder outer. Dismiss the decent results as irrelevant or an aberration, whereas the poor performances - or even good performances, if the result is poor - are taken to present the true picture. What about all the games where OXFORD would have won if so and so hadn't made a wonder save, blah blah blah. By several accounts we battered Rochdale last night. Don't be so selective.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2012 9:45:07 GMT
If you compare it to the previous 6 games those games do represent a turnaround however you put a negative slant on it.
No-one is claiming that everything is rosy, but the more realistic of us recognise that turning things round takes time and some progress has been made in the last few games. It is delusional to believe that a new manager will automatically improve our long term chances.
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Post by sihath on Oct 24, 2012 9:54:46 GMT
Of course I can see all that, but there has been the beginnings of a turnaround in the last 5 or 6 games. We're as close to the play-offs as relegation and I think I would give it another few games and see if the improvement continues. Not saying I think Wilder is the man to take us forward long-term, but I support the owners decision at the moment. What turnaround was that ? Wimbledon would have drawn if not for a wonder save by Clarke who shouldn't have been on the field really because he was dropped and only on for the injured Brown. Gillingham bossed the game with their manager describing Clarke in the same bracket as Banks. Rotherham swatted us aside comfortably. Port Vale we were humiliated on national TV. Bradford embarrassed us at our place. I can't get over excited by a JPT win in front of one man and his dog and only the most delusional of supporters would have read anything positive in to the Accrington result in terms of our long term chances. What? So many things wrong with that post.... JPT v Swindon. One man and his dog? It was our highest attendance of the season. Can't get excited? Our rivals. A cup game. Under floodlights. Smoke bombs. Atmosphere. Late winner. If you can't get excited about that then I feel very, very sorry for you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2012 9:59:54 GMT
must have been a champions league night...
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Post by Mark on Oct 24, 2012 10:09:05 GMT
Accrington would have beaten us too if they had scored one and we hadn't scored five. Logical isn't it?
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Post by baldy on Oct 24, 2012 10:59:28 GMT
What turnaround was that ? Wimbledon would have drawn if not for a wonder save by Clarke who shouldn't have been on the field really because he was dropped and only on for the injured Brown. Gillingham bossed the game with their manager describing Clarke in the same bracket as Banks. Rotherham swatted us aside comfortably. Port Vale we were humiliated on national TV. Bradford embarrassed us at our place. I can't get over excited by a JPT win in front of one man and his dog and only the most delusional of supporters would have read anything positive in to the Accrington result in terms of our long term chances. What? So many things wrong with that post.... JPT v Swindon. One man and his dog? It was our highest attendance of the season. Can't get excited? Our rivals. A cup game. Under floodlights. Smoke bombs. Atmosphere. Late winner. If you can't get excited about that then I feel very, very sorry for you. If you read posts properly I wouldn't have to waste my time replying to this rubbish. Me and Amarillo were talking about the supposed turnaround IN THE LAST SIX OR SO GAMES and I was on about the Cheltenham JPT game in front of about a 1000 fans. The Swindon game must have been six weeks ago and I wasn't talking about that. Not that much wrong with that post when you read it properly is there ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2012 11:10:47 GMT
Irrelevant how many were there. The important fact is we won the game scoring 4 goals against a good side.
For me what sums up this turnaround more than anything else is that we are creating chances. For a long time we haven't been doing this. Not suggesting everything is rosy by any means, but I think there is cause for SOME optimism because of this.
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Post by baldy on Oct 24, 2012 11:17:58 GMT
Irrelevant how many were there. The important fact is we won the game scoring 4 goals against a good side. For me what sums up this turnaround more than anything else is that we are creating chances. For a long time we haven't been doing this. Not suggesting everything is rosy by any means, but I think there is cause for SOME optimism because of this. I cannot help but smile when I see it described as that !!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D F*** me, if this is a 'turnaround' I'd hate to see us when we have a rocky patch !!
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Post by sihath on Oct 24, 2012 11:25:51 GMT
What? So many things wrong with that post.... JPT v Swindon. One man and his dog? It was our highest attendance of the season. Can't get excited? Our rivals. A cup game. Under floodlights. Smoke bombs. Atmosphere. Late winner. If you can't get excited about that then I feel very, very sorry for you. If you read posts properly I wouldn't have to waste my time replying to this rubbish. Me and Amarillo were talking about the supposed turnaround IN THE LAST SIX OR SO GAMES and I was on about the Cheltenham JPT game in front of about a 1000 fans. The Swindon game must have been six weeks ago and I wasn't talking about that. Not that much wrong with that post when you read it properly is there ? Show me where you say Cheltenham, where? where? show me where you say Cheltenham, show me where you categorically say Cheltenham? You don't!!!!!!! My post isn't rubbish, it's just not happened yet, but it will, sometime in the future so I"M NOT WRONG!!! Actually I realised you were talking about Cheltenham, but I fancied posting a thread that had "gone a bit Baldy"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2012 11:29:44 GMT
Smile all you like I'm just trying to point out some positives or do you not agree that creating chances is a positive change that we have seen in recent weeks?
Maybe turnaround isn't the right phrase, but at least it recognises the fact that there has been an improvement rather than blindly refusing to acknowledge that
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Post by whathesaid on Oct 24, 2012 11:46:02 GMT
There's an obvious disagreement between those who believe the result matters, no matter the manner in which it's achieved, and those who want to watch a good game of football.
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Post by winchesterox on Oct 24, 2012 11:47:26 GMT
Can I interject just here and mention the [potential] adverse impact of the long injury list? With Whing back (for example), we seem to be showing some signs which we could [perhaps] get encouragement from.
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Post by whathesaid on Oct 24, 2012 11:52:03 GMT
Can I interject just here and mention the [potential] adverse impact of the long injury list? With Whing back (for example), we seem to be showing some signs which we could [perhaps] get encouragement from. Careful, you'll be shot down as being overly optimistic, even with words such as 'potential' and 'perhaps'. Reasons to be optimistic don't seemed to be liked by those wanting the Manager out. Win a game, it's luck / we're playing a poor side. Lose a game, it's the manager.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2012 11:59:39 GMT
There's an obvious disagreement between those who believe the result matters, no matter the manner in which it's achieved, and those who want to watch a good game of football. partly, but in this case its more between those who recognise that playing well is a step towards getting results and those who don't. Take last nights performance into the next 2 games and we might get 6 points, take Port vales performance and we get nothing. Thats why it matters.
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Post by leysboy on Oct 24, 2012 12:03:20 GMT
I dont care about the Paint pot trophy, and would rather be double or beaten by Scumdon/Cheltenham in exchange for top 7 right now. We are miles away from them positions although the League table would sudjest otherwise. I say miles away because we win one game and then follow it up with a defeat. Last season we were in the playoffs, and we were closing down on Southend,Cheltenham,and Shrewsbury. We know what happened we imploded, and blew it under pressure. This seasons first 3 games were a false dawn, win 3 and then lose six, lose in a pathetic manner at Vale, then thrash Accrington. We get another test and lose to Rochdale. For me it's not acceptable, and that means CW and his coaching staff and get out!
We have no MOMENTUM! thats the keyword.
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Post by whathesaid on Oct 24, 2012 12:07:23 GMT
There's an obvious disagreement between those who believe the result matters, no matter the manner in which it's achieved, and those who want to watch a good game of football. partly, but in this case its more between those who recognise that playing well is a step towards getting results and those who don't. Take last nights performance into the next 2 games and we might get 6 points, take Port vales performance and we get nothing. Thats why it matters. Agree with you, but unfortunately it only means we have a greater chance to win, rather than pulling it off. The issue at the moment seems to be centred around our defensive set up, particularly away from home. We used to be pretty solid at the back, however we've been leaking too many goals. I think the defensive midfield position is vital, particularly on our travels. Hopefully a fully fit Whing will start to show benefits.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Oct 24, 2012 12:21:33 GMT
I thought Cox was very good against Accrington, in a quiet, efficient and effective way. I wasn't at Rochdale last night, but he must have been a big miss surely?
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Post by realist on Oct 24, 2012 12:30:12 GMT
We are not winning regulary whether we play poor or well have not done for three seasons.It seems opponents are always more clinical in their finishing.We do not convert our chances maybe mr wilder needs to get our strikers shooting at the goal every training session you cant blame him if they miss.Accrington were poor we should have scored more.Wycombe will be a test.I wait to see the forums response after this game.
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Post by m on Oct 24, 2012 13:20:10 GMT
I wait to see the forums response after this game. What an odd thing to say.
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Post by realist on Oct 24, 2012 14:53:55 GMT
Why.
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Post by manorman on Oct 24, 2012 15:45:27 GMT
Just got home. Agree with roley. We were far the better team but if we don't take our chances then this will continue to happen. Should have been 1 up inside 1st 2mins as their keeper flapped and Alfie missed a sitter from 6 yards pushing it past the far post. Could have been all over by half time. The keeper made a fantastic save in the 2nd half and our threat petered out with the removal of Alfie. We lost all pace going forward and heslop was awful. Other things that cost us was the 1st touch of beano and a few others which cost us shooting chances and the final ball in was poor on several occasions. If it had been a draw then I would have said 2 points dropped, it was better than Vale but will we ever win up north again, just have to hope morecombe is the one I think this is a pretty accurate reflection on the game. Potter was playing quite well when he got subbed and this definitely impacted on our forward movement. I think he may have been taken off because they were worried he may have been sent off. At the end of the first half he had words with the full back when he appeared to have taken a hit to the face. In the second half he flew into a reckless tackle, got booked and looked as if he was losing his rag. We continued with 4-4-2 but Heslop is no right sided midfielder and Whing (who played very well) was never going to do a Batt and get to the byline. The other worry was that Leven failed to influence the game second half and looked knackered probably due to a lack of match practice. Had Cox been available to play alongside Leven, it would have allowed JFC to come on later and keep the momentum going.
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Post by behindthegoal on Oct 24, 2012 18:07:22 GMT
Was surprised at the attendance.
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