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Post by sihath on Feb 3, 2011 12:38:28 GMT
Neville didn't make as beeline for the Liverpool fans. As the match finished he made his way to the centre circle to shake hands with the officials and after he had done so he just turned to the scousers, grabbed the badge and kissed it. Its not really that much different from cupping your ear in the direction of the opposition fans when you've just stuck the ball in their net. Had he gone right over to them and milked it then I can see how that would be irresponsible but this was over in a flash. No hand gestures towards Liverpool fans, in fact nothing anti Liverpool at all. He was just professing his love for his club. As was said up thread, fans have got to be big enough to take stick back if they want to give it out. You can't expect Neville to take dogs abuse for 90 minutes and then not momentarilly rejoice when its his turn. Why should Neville show restraint if a bunch of scousers cant ? The simple answer is if Liverpool fans didnt taunt him throughout then he wouldnt have done it. Seems simple enough to me. Baldy. I agree that players should be allowed to celebrate as they wish. The Arsenal fans complaining that Adebayors celebration could have caused injury was pathetic. It was them rushing to the front that would have been the cause of any injury. But. You are wrong in your comments I've highlighted. It was after Rio Ferdinand had scored in the 90th minute that Neville ran to the Liverpool fans and celebrated rather than celebrate with his own team-mates. He can celebrate as he wants as far as I am concerned but to pretend it didn't happen is wrong.
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Post by sihath on Feb 3, 2011 12:40:23 GMT
Rikki This forum is not the place for well thought through, intelligent, reasoned comments.If you want to comment on Phil Neville he's either a cock or a legend. ...says sihath - one of N&I's foremost contributors. I was being ironic (don't you think?), or was that a compliment?
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Post by baldy on Feb 3, 2011 12:50:12 GMT
Neville didn't make as beeline for the Liverpool fans. As the match finished he made his way to the centre circle to shake hands with the officials and after he had done so he just turned to the scousers, grabbed the badge and kissed it. Its not really that much different from cupping your ear in the direction of the opposition fans when you've just stuck the ball in their net. Had he gone right over to them and milked it then I can see how that would be irresponsible but this was over in a flash. No hand gestures towards Liverpool fans, in fact nothing anti Liverpool at all. He was just professing his love for his club. As was said up thread, fans have got to be big enough to take stick back if they want to give it out. You can't expect Neville to take dogs abuse for 90 minutes and then not momentarilly rejoice when its his turn. Why should Neville show restraint if a bunch of scousers cant ? The simple answer is if Liverpool fans didnt taunt him throughout then he wouldnt have done it. Seems simple enough to me. Baldy. I agree that players should be allowed to celebrate as they wish. The Arsenal fans complaining that Adebayors celebration could have caused injury was pathetic. It was them rushing to the front that would have been the cause of any injury. But. You are wrong in your comments I've highlighted. It was after Rio Ferdinand had scored in the 90th minute that Neville ran to the Liverpool fans and celebrated rather than celebrate with his own team-mates. He can celebrate as he wants as far as I am concerned but to pretend it didn't happen is wrong. I stand to be corrected but I'm sure he did after the final whistle and he didnt exactly run towards them. He was in an isolated area of the pitch and just turned to them. Putting my bias to one side I genuinely dont see a problem with what he did.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2011 12:58:52 GMT
Rikki This forum is not the place for well thought through, intelligent, reasoned comments. If you want to comment on Phil Neville he's either a cock or a legend. ;D haha great post. except we're talking about Gary...
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Post by sihath on Feb 3, 2011 13:03:01 GMT
Baldy. I agree that players should be allowed to celebrate as they wish. The Arsenal fans complaining that Adebayors celebration could have caused injury was pathetic. It was them rushing to the front that would have been the cause of any injury. But. You are wrong in your comments I've highlighted. It was after Rio Ferdinand had scored in the 90th minute that Neville ran to the Liverpool fans and celebrated rather than celebrate with his own team-mates. He can celebrate as he wants as far as I am concerned but to pretend it didn't happen is wrong. I stand to be corrected but I'm sure he did after the final whistle and he didnt exactly run towards them. He was in an isolated area of the pitch and just turned to them. Putting my bias to one side I genuinely dont see a problem with what he did. I don't see a problem either. However players should be a little sensible. I once spent some time with Steve Kindon at a Huddersfield game many years ago and he told a story of when he played for Burnley at Celtic in a European game. The Chielf of Police in Glasgow came into the dressing room and told them of their responsibility and not to wind up the fans (especially not to the gesture that Gazza did a few years ago). Kindon scored and ran in front of the Celtic fans, remembered what the police had said, and just flicked the V's at them instead, then ran off back down the pitch as the Celtic fans went mental.
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Post by sihath on Feb 3, 2011 13:03:49 GMT
Rikki This forum is not the place for well thought through, intelligent, reasoned comments. If you want to comment on Phil Neville he's either a cock or a legend. ;D haha great post. except we're talking about Gary... I always get them mixed up. I'll refer to him as "Tache" from now on.
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Post by dougie07 on Feb 3, 2011 16:16:05 GMT
Baldy. I agree that players should be allowed to celebrate as they wish. The Arsenal fans complaining that Adebayors celebration could have caused injury was pathetic. It was them rushing to the front that would have been the cause of any injury. But. You are wrong in your comments I've highlighted. It was after Rio Ferdinand had scored in the 90th minute that Neville ran to the Liverpool fans and celebrated rather than celebrate with his own team-mates. He can celebrate as he wants as far as I am concerned but to pretend it didn't happen is wrong. I stand to be corrected but I'm sure he did after the final whistle and he didnt exactly run towards them. He was in an isolated area of the pitch and just turned to them. Putting my bias to one side I genuinely dont see a problem with what he did. Stand corrected! www.youtube.com/watch?v=QubF5AfcuekPeople are right though. He is a Manchester United legend. You don't play for a club that many times, winning so much without getting high praise. He's a level below Giggs but fair play to him for making a career through determination rather than natural skill.
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Post by baldy on Feb 3, 2011 16:23:25 GMT
I stand to be corrected but I'm sure he did after the final whistle and he didnt exactly run towards them. He was in an isolated area of the pitch and just turned to them. Putting my bias to one side I genuinely dont see a problem with what he did. Stand corrected! www.youtube.com/watch?v=QubF5AfcuekPeople are right though. He is a Manchester United legend. You don't play for a club that many times, winning so much without getting high praise. He's a level below Giggs but fair play to him for making a career through determination rather than natural skill. Nice sentiments from you there considering he hates you scousers
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Post by baldy on Feb 3, 2011 17:51:49 GMT
Legend? Rubbish! A very good player I grant you, but he is no legend. He was the best we had in what is a relatively weak position for England. To use the term means you are putting him on the same pedestal as full-backs like Lillian Thuram, Paulo Maldini, Giuseppe Bergomi, Roberto Carlos and Cafu which is quite frankly - Ridiculous! Maldini was a centre back for starters. As for the rest I think Neville is an absolute equal, if not better, than them at his primary job - defending. Carlos wasn't a better defender than Neville, better offensively but going backwards ? Nothing in it. In his prime I am desperately trying to think of a player who has ripped Neville apart, here or europe, and I cannot think of one.
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Post by hairy on Feb 3, 2011 17:58:27 GMT
Legend? Rubbish! A very good player I grant you, but he is no legend. He was the best we had in what is a relatively weak position for England. To use the term means you are putting him on the same pedestal as full-backs like Lillian Thuram, Paulo Maldini, Giuseppe Bergomi, Roberto Carlos and Cafu which is quite frankly - Ridiculous! Maldini was a centre back for starters. As for the rest I think Neville is an absolute equal, if not better, than them at his primary job - defending. Carlos wasn't a better defender than Neville, better offensively but going backwards ? Nothing in it. In his prime I am desperately trying to think of a player who has ripped Neville apart, here or europe, and I cannot think of one. Played the majority of his games at left back. Neville may be a man u legend but he suffered from being around at the same time as the greatest right back of them all - Cafu. Looked very average in comparison to the great man.
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Post by Boogaloo on Feb 3, 2011 19:09:35 GMT
Let me explain. The term 'Legend' is bandied around far too loosely these days. If it is possible to have about a thousand legends in World football, then 'Yes' Gary Neville is a legend, but that kind of devalues the term 'Legend' in my eye.
For me, to apply the term legend to a sports star, they have to be exemplary on the World stage as someone who will be talked about in not just five years, not twenty, but fifty years from now.
You then have different levels of legend - National legend, club legend (such as Gary Briggs and John Aldridge for us). Neville is a club legend.
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Post by dannyc on Feb 3, 2011 21:10:28 GMT
Let me explain. The term 'Legend' is bandied around far too loosely these days. If it is possible to have about a thousand legends in World football, then 'Yes' Gary Neville is a legend, but that kind of devalues the term 'Legend' in my eye. For me, to apply the term legend to a sports star, they have to be exemplary on the World stage as someone who will be talked about in not just five years, not twenty, but fifty years from now. You then have different levels of legend - National legend, club legend (such as Gary Briggs and John Aldridge for us). Neville is a club legend. George best didn't play in any world cups does that not make him a legend .
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Post by baldy on Feb 3, 2011 21:23:14 GMT
Let me explain. The term 'Legend' is bandied around far too loosely these days. If it is possible to have about a thousand legends in World football, then 'Yes' Gary Neville is a legend, but that kind of devalues the term 'Legend' in my eye. For me, to apply the term legend to a sports star, they have to be exemplary on the World stage as someone who will be talked about in not just five years, not twenty, but fifty years from now. You then have different levels of legend - National legend, club legend (such as Gary Briggs and John Aldridge for us). Neville is a club legend. I sort of see what you are saying but on that basis I would say the Premiership has only ever seen one genuine legend - Eric Cantona. His sheer prescence transformed not just a team but an entire club. I cannot think of any player who has impacted the game to such a degree as he did at Man U. In my lifetime there have been four footballers globally - Pele, Best, Cruyff and Maradona - who I would say you could class as genuine legends and I suppose Messi is heading in that direction at a fair old rate. If its bandied about too easily then I think you are talking a handful at most who could be considered iconic in footballing terms.
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Post by SteMerritt on Feb 4, 2011 8:44:53 GMT
I sort of see what you are saying but on that basis I would say the Premiership has only ever seen one genuine legend - Eric Cantona. His sheer prescence transformed not just a team but an entire club. I cannot think of any player who has impacted the game to such a degree as he did at Man U. Or impacted opposition supporters to the same degree as his foot... Oh, and wait for the Arsenal contingent to argue with that and suggest either Bergkamp or Henry. (for what it's worth, if I was to say there was only 1 genuine legend in Premier League history, I would have said Gianfranco Zola)
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Post by baldy on Feb 4, 2011 9:02:31 GMT
I sort of see what you are saying but on that basis I would say the Premiership has only ever seen one genuine legend - Eric Cantona. His sheer prescence transformed not just a team but an entire club. I cannot think of any player who has impacted the game to such a degree as he did at Man U. Or impacted opposition supporters to the same degree as his foot... Oh, and wait for the Arsenal contingent to argue with that and suggest either Bergkamp or Henry. (for what it's worth, if I was to say there was only 1 genuine legend in Premier League history, I would have said Gianfranco Zola) In a way that adds to his legendary status. The examples I gave earlier included Best and Maradona and they make Cantonas exploits look tame but those two are undeniably footballing legends. Zola didn't trigger unprescedented success with a one man crusade in the way Cantonas did. There was a uniqueness about Cantona that I just dont think Bergkamp, Henry or Zola possessed. Those images of Cantona puffing his chest out after that chipped goal will remain in football folklore forever - it was like 'You lot think I'm the best ? So do I' Some of these others are probably better footballers, technically, than Cantona but they dont have that aura, that mystique, that he had. Its all down to personal opinion, of course, but he's out on his own in my book.
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Post by SteMerritt on Feb 4, 2011 9:29:58 GMT
Or impacted opposition supporters to the same degree as his foot... Oh, and wait for the Arsenal contingent to argue with that and suggest either Bergkamp or Henry. (for what it's worth, if I was to say there was only 1 genuine legend in Premier League history, I would have said Gianfranco Zola) In a way that adds to his legendary status. The examples I gave earlier included Best and Maradona and they make Cantonas exploits look tame but those two are undeniably footballing legends. Zola didn't trigger unprescedented success with a one man crusade in the way Cantonas did. There was a uniqueness about Cantona that I just dont think Bergkamp, Henry or Zola possessed. Those images of Cantona puffing his chest out after that chipped goal will remain in football folklore forever - it was like 'You lot think I'm the best ? So do I' Some of these others are probably better footballers, technically, than Cantona but they dont have that aura, that mystique, that he had. Its all down to personal opinion, of course, but he's out on his own in my book. I do take your point, and there isn't much to argue with in that post. For me the best ever foreign player in the PL was Zola (although, granted, that isn't what this discussion is exactly about), I like the way he played, his attitude and respect to opposition (the only member of that Chelsea team who came out of the games with us in the FA Cup with any credit in my eyes, didn't complain about hard tackles, didn't belittle our efforts...) Played the game how I like to see it played. I see Cantona as similar to Ronnie O'Sullivan - fantastic talent, capable of amazing feats of skill, but you will always think that there was more he could have achieved. Cantona had finished by the year of the treble hadn't he? Co-incidence? You could argue that by getting a more of a team player into the side that Manchester Utd went up a level.
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Post by baldy on Feb 4, 2011 9:57:24 GMT
In a way that adds to his legendary status. The examples I gave earlier included Best and Maradona and they make Cantonas exploits look tame but those two are undeniably footballing legends. Zola didn't trigger unprescedented success with a one man crusade in the way Cantonas did. There was a uniqueness about Cantona that I just dont think Bergkamp, Henry or Zola possessed. Those images of Cantona puffing his chest out after that chipped goal will remain in football folklore forever - it was like 'You lot think I'm the best ? So do I' Some of these others are probably better footballers, technically, than Cantona but they dont have that aura, that mystique, that he had. Its all down to personal opinion, of course, but he's out on his own in my book. I do take your point, and there isn't much to argue with in that post. For me the best ever foreign player in the PL was Zola (although, granted, that isn't what this discussion is exactly about), I like the way he played, his attitude and respect to opposition (the only member of that Chelsea team who came out of the games with us in the FA Cup with any credit in my eyes, didn't complain about hard tackles, didn't belittle our efforts...) Played the game how I like to see it played. I see Cantona as similar to Ronnie O'Sullivan - fantastic talent, capable of amazing feats of skill, but you will always think that there was more he could have achieved. Cantona had finished by the year of the treble hadn't he? Co-incidence? You could argue that by getting a more of a team player into the side that Manchester Utd went up a level. Man U never flourished in europe with Cantona and that will always remain a slight blemish on his time there. I seem to recall his last european game that brought about his retirement, he was clearly second best on the night to a fairly average european side and he knew his time was up although he was still more than capable of running the lesser premier league games at that point. Thats always the mark of a top player when he knows himself that his game is on the wane. Its interesting that you pick Zola. My second choice would have been Bergkamp because he, like Cantona, was pivotal to a sustained spell of success for Arsenal. Unlike Henry but just like Cantona, Berkgamp relied on what he could do with the ball at his feet and didn't have the pace 'get out' in his game like Henry. Zola would be up there as would Shearer, Giggs and Henry.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 10:34:35 GMT
In my lifetime there have been four footballers globally - Pele, Best, Cruyff and Maradona - who I would say you could class as genuine legends and I suppose Messi is heading in that direction at a fair old rate. I would add Zidane and Ronaldo to that list.
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Post by tatabanya on Feb 4, 2011 12:08:44 GMT
If fans are going to dish it out to players why can't they take it back. I think Adebayor's celebration was the single greatest celebration in football history, and of those two teams my allegiance certainly lies with Aresnal. The sheer passion show and Adebayor taking the oppertunity to rub the abuse he had been receiving right back in the faces of the Gunners was magnificent. The same goes for Red Nev. And Baldy it was a touch more than a mere kiss of the badge... www.youtube.com/watch?v=QubF5Afcuek
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 12:13:50 GMT
If fans are going to dish it out to players why can't they take it back. because the player is doing his job and should behave responsibly on the pitch just as we all have to when we are at work. I'm not saying they should be punished for a display of passion, but it shouldn't be seen as ok in my opinion...
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Post by sihath on Feb 4, 2011 12:17:40 GMT
If fans are going to dish it out to players why can't they take it back. I think Adebayor's celebration was the single greatest celebration in football history, and of those two teams my allegiance certainly lies with Aresnal. The sheer passion show and Adebayor taking the oppertunity to rub the abuse he had been receiving right back in the faces of the Gunners was magnificent. The same goes for Red Nev. And Baldy it was a touch more than a mere kiss of the badge... www.youtube.com/watch?v=QubF5AfcuekExactly. I remember Jefferson Louis scoring against us last season (Woking?), then running to the halfway line in front of the South Stand and sliding on his knees. Up until then he'd been remembered for THAT goal against Swindon, but he got loads of abuse because of his celebration. He celebrated how he wanted and we reacted how we wanted, no need to complain to the authorities. Perhaps the Neville one got lots of press is because the scousers like to take offence easily??
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Post by tatabanya on Feb 4, 2011 12:17:10 GMT
Would you keep your calm at work if someone was standing over your shoulder shouting w*nker at you???
I remember at Yeovil away a few years back watching a moronic Oxford fan shouting abuse at their corner taker all game. Really nasty stuff, personal verbal abuse. The Yeovil player flicked two fingers up at the Oxford fan and he went absolutely bananas. Went and told a steward, said he was going to write a letter to the club demanding an apology. Absolutely pathetic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 12:28:05 GMT
Would you keep your calm at work if someone was standing over your shoulder shouting w*nker at you??? No, but that is not the sort of thing I am expected to deal with in my job. But in lots of jobs getting abuse is a part of the job and they are expected to remain professional.
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Post by baldy on Feb 4, 2011 12:45:57 GMT
Would you keep your calm at work if someone was standing over your shoulder shouting w*nker at you??? No, but that is not the sort of thing I am expected to deal with in my job. But in lots of jobs getting abuse is a part of the job and they are expected to remain professional. There are few jobs as emotive as that of a professional footballer and thats why I think footballers need to be given a bit of leeway with their celebrations. We know, as fans, how berserk we go when a goal is scored so imagine the adrenalin rush if you ARE the actual goalscorer ! It alright saying they are professionals but you must be forgiven for momentarilly losing your head in certain instances. I just don't get how a footballer is supposed to score a goal in the 94th minute to seal a win and then put the brakes on and think to himself 'calm down, I'm a professional footballer'. To make a beeline for opposing fans and make hand gestures towards them is totally different, that is aiming downright personal abuse and is out of order but to thump the air, kiss the badge, point to your name on the shirt or celebrate wildly in front of the opposition fans is perfectley acceptable and should not be discouraged. In fact, I think celebrating where you like inside of the advertising hoardings should be permitted and if that means running headlong towards the opposition fans then fine. Fans do their bit in the stands so let the players have the freedom of the pitch.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 12:58:31 GMT
Yep as I said, they shouldn't be punished for heat of the moment stuff - but it should be discouraged
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Post by moobs on Feb 4, 2011 14:37:32 GMT
In a poll on Sky Thierry Henry was voted the greatest Premiership player of all time and I have to agree. Henry defined the word unplayable because at his peak there was no other word for him. His sheer pace, close control, goalscoring and general world class ability stood him out as the best ever. He scored hat tricks in Rome and the San Siro where he singled handedly massacred Inter Milan, their defence was begging for mercy by the end. He scored 187 goals in 254 appearances, better than 2 goals every 3 matches.
Cantona and Zola were legends in their own right but Henry raised the bar. Cantona will be remembered for Kung Fu Kicks and Seagulls, Zola was the showman but no player was as deadly and as effective going forward as Henry.
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Post by tatabanya on Feb 4, 2011 14:52:49 GMT
Premier League legends - Schmeichel, Keane, Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Shearer, Henry, Bergkamp, Viera, Adams, Zola.
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Post by Boogaloo on Feb 4, 2011 14:53:40 GMT
In a poll on Sky Thierry Henry was voted the greatest Premiership player of all time and I have to agree. Henry defined the word unplayable because at his peak there was no other word for him. His sheer pace, close control, goalscoring and general world class ability stood him out as the best ever. He scored hat tricks in Rome and the San Siro where he singled handedly massacred Inter Milan, their defence was begging for mercy by the end. He scored 187 goals in 254 appearances, better than 2 goals every 3 matches. Cantona and Zola were legends in their own right but Henry raised the bar. Cantona will be remembered for Kung Fu Kicks and Seagulls, Zola was the showman but no player was as deadly and as effective going forward as Henry. Good Post ^^^^^^^
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 15:07:41 GMT
In a poll on Sky Thierry Henry was voted the greatest Premiership player of all time . This is something that annoys me Just because the top flight changed its name, shouldn't mean that records start again.
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Post by baldy on Feb 4, 2011 15:10:59 GMT
In a poll on Sky Thierry Henry was voted the greatest Premiership player of all time and I have to agree. Henry defined the word unplayable because at his peak there was no other word for him. His sheer pace, close control, goalscoring and general world class ability stood him out as the best ever. He scored hat tricks in Rome and the San Siro where he singled handedly massacred Inter Milan, their defence was begging for mercy by the end. He scored 187 goals in 254 appearances, better than 2 goals every 3 matches. Cantona and Zola were legends in their own right but Henry raised the bar. Cantona will be remembered for Kung Fu Kicks and Seagulls, Zola was the showman but no player was as deadly and as effective going forward as Henry. 100% disagree. Don't bother quoting a Sky poll, thats no proper yardstick. Interesting that pace is listed first by you among his attributes. Linford Christie had that in abundance too. Henry couldn't manipulate a football in the way Cantona or Bergkamp could and if you took out his searing pace then you're removing about 75% of the player. Henry, to me, was a bit of a show pony. The number of really big games that he went missing in was alarming and of the 22 who started the CL final against Barcelona Henry came 22nd in terms of performance level. Get him against Wigan or WBA and he was awesome.
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