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Post by The Fence End on Feb 1, 2011 21:36:22 GMT
People on here always rave about Wright and Worley being fantastic centre backs but the longest period without a clean sheet on the entire country suggest otherwise. 22 games without a clean sheet is a disgrace.
I'm not sure what can be done outside the transfer window, emergency loan or something, but if we don't change the back four we'll slip meekly into mid table obscurity.
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Post by Beav on Feb 1, 2011 21:39:58 GMT
Change all 5 of them!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 21:42:13 GMT
im sorry but when we were winning everyone was fine now weve lost one its bring in some more players and bench wright and worley! when we get one, some more will follow trust me
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Post by Beav on Feb 1, 2011 21:44:21 GMT
I understand where you're coming from on the 'winning' point.
But we've been waiting 23 games for a clean sheet. The longest wait in the COUNTRY. The winning excuse just cannot make up for it!
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Post by yellowdog on Feb 1, 2011 21:55:43 GMT
Our defence is wobbly but the blame can not all be laid at their feet. If we put away all our chances it would not matter if we concede one or two. If we did not lose the ball in midfield then we wouldn't be putting so much pressure on the back four and if we didn't keep banging on about clean sheets we may just keep one!
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Post by Beav on Feb 1, 2011 22:08:52 GMT
We cannot always rely on our strikers!
Neither can we always rely on our defence!
We've relied on our strikers for 8 out of the last 11 games!
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 1, 2011 22:17:48 GMT
Change the entire back line and watch it collapse.You can't play 3 players who have never started for the club before and two relatively Oxford inexperienced fullbacks in defence and expect to keep a clean sheet.
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Post by behindthegoal on Feb 1, 2011 22:17:48 GMT
Goodness we've moaned at wilder about changing it around too much since he's been here, we cried out for him to keep it settled. Lets keep it as it is with the odd tweak
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Post by Beav on Feb 1, 2011 22:19:54 GMT
Wow. Noone can take a joke it seems.
LLC its annoying how far your nose is up Clarkes arse. He's a good keeper but he CAN do wrong you know?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 22:20:11 GMT
i do agree something needs to be done and they need some help but i dont think they are as bad you are making out, i think everyones a little annoyed that we have lost wait till saturday when we get back on track! with a clean sheet! i believe!
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Post by Beav on Feb 1, 2011 22:22:19 GMT
As bad as i'm making out? Like having the world clean sheet record in England this year?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 22:24:07 GMT
As bad as i'm making out? Like having the world clean sheet record in England this year? i was talking to the guy up top
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 1, 2011 22:25:12 GMT
It's also annoying how much you try and find fault with him. I don't think (pardon me if I'm wrong) since Macclesfield there's been a period after a game you haven't criticised him. I don't want to bother arguing whether changing him along with the defence will collapse the team, I've taken that out. Unfortunately I know the more you criticise him, the more I'll try and defend him. If someone else started I reckon I would respond in the same way. Pinch of salt? It's a shame we don't seem to get on anymore. Yes, he can do wrong. He made a mistake at Southend, at Northampton and flapped after the penalty save against Cheltenham. What more do you want me to say? Do you want me to say I hate him? That's he rubbish? Yeah, he's one of my favourite players, so I'm not going to. I didn't realise that counted as having my nose up his arse. If I had a different username, no abuse. Your accusations of favouritism are pointless and irrelevant, and really are only going to end up in you getting further biased against him.
However, my main point and the one I'd like to debate is this - do you really think our defence will fare any better against Gillingham if we play Eastwood, Purkiss, Sangare, Vaughan and Kinniburgh?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 22:31:04 GMT
It's also annoying how much you try and find fault with him. I don't think (pardon me if I'm wrong) since Macclesfield there's been a period after a game you haven't criticised him. I don't want to bother arguing whether changing him along with the defence will collapse the team, I've taken that out. Unfortunately I know the more you criticise him, the more I'll try and defend him. If someone else started I reckon I would respond in the same way. Pinch of salt? It's a shame we don't seem to get on anymore. Yes, he can do wrong. He made a mistake at Southend, at Northampton and flapped after the penalty save against Cheltenham. What more do you want me to say? Do you want me to say I hate him? That's he rubbish? Yeah, he's one of my favourite players, so I'm not going to. I didn't realise that counted as having my nose up his arse. If I had a different username, no abuse. Your accusations of favouritism are pointless and irrelevant, and really are only going to end up in you getting further biased against him. However, my main point and the one I'd like to debate is this - do you really think our defence will fare any better against Gillingham if we play Eastwood, Purkiss, Sangare, Vaughan and Kinniburgh? i would like to see sangare played tbh! and purkiss will be forced to play
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 1, 2011 22:32:11 GMT
I don't dismiss the idea of changing a couple, Sangare's supposedly quite highly rated, but if we change all 5 we're pretty screwed.
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Post by Beav on Feb 1, 2011 22:32:46 GMT
I'm not ever saying changing him! I only said it up there as a joke.
I swear I don't try and find fault. I just try and look at defensive probablities for conceded goals. All 5 have to be looked at and before I would have definitely said you would have always overlooked him.
It is clear I was wrong to say what I said up there ^^^ too far. (Not feeling well today but that's nothing to do with anything)
Course not saying you should hate him. However I stand by my accusations of favouritism and say that you do overlook him sometimes. Today I wasn't there so I cannot comment. Cheltenham I am still unsure whether he could do ANYTHING more about the first goal (probably not). I was the first to say how well he did to save the penalty - which is why he should be starting every week.
I stand by my thoughts that he needs to sort his handling out and his defensive coordination.
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Post by Beav on Feb 1, 2011 22:34:25 GMT
Eastwood - no Purkiss - he's playing the next 3 anyway Kinniburgh - depends if Tonkin can resume his form from before hand Sangare - I'd literally put him above Wright for Gillingham Gaughan - Same applies with Sangare.
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Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 1, 2011 22:40:08 GMT
Apology seems required for taking your comment too literally Sorry about that. I think he has a problem with decision making and concentration (hence the times he's flapped/dropped crosses) but I just don't see the organising of defence, from the (admittedly amateur) experience I have of keeping/coaching there's been little more a keeper can do than say 'mark up', 'front post back post' and when the opposition breaks 'watch down X side'. I think there's a coaching problem with that one. Unfortunately I do think you have tried to find fault with him before, I couldn't and can't in the slightest see what he did wrong for the first goal at Northampton, for example, and I'm not sure if it was you but someone was blaming Clarke for the goal at Cheltenham. With my favouritism, I guess it evens out Personally at this point I'd like to see a defence of Clarke, Purkiss (although Batt should be straight back in), Sangare, Worley and Tonkin. I don't think Worley's put a foot wrong for a few games at least and has some really good performances under his name (although I wasn't there tonight but it sounded like he didn't do much wrong and quite a bit right). Wright is fine but I think his faults are often overlooked because he's a fantastic tackler. I think he's been a little off the boil recently and I'd definitely considering giving Sangare a go there. I think Tonkin's been good recently despite sounding like he messed up tonight, I'd give him a game or two, he's not off form yet.
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Post by tatabanya on Feb 1, 2011 22:40:15 GMT
This is exactly what we do not need Beav. We need to show faith the the individuals and the clean sheets will come. Each player is clearly good enough at this level.
And playing Gaughan over Wright? What a disaster that would be.
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Post by followtheox (the original) on Feb 1, 2011 22:41:30 GMT
Eastwood - no Purkiss - he's playing the next 3 anyway Kinniburgh - depends if Tonkin can resume his form from before hand Sangare - I'd literally put him above Wright for Gillingham Gaughan - Same applies with Sangare. How can Tonkin regain his form before hand? You can only regain your form by playing. Then again you think we have an individual coach for each area of the pitch so prehaps our left back coach could do some work with him.
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Post by Lone Gunman on Feb 1, 2011 23:18:30 GMT
This is exactly what we do not need Beav. We need to show faith the the individuals and the clean sheets will come. Each player is clearly good enough at this level. And playing Gaughan over Wright? What a disaster that would be. You'd have thought if the clean sheets were going to come they'd have done so before now. All this settled side nonsense is really getting to me. The defence is not doing its job plain and simple. The problem needs to be identified and sorted ASAP or, as i have repeatedly said, even when we were winning, we can forget promotion.
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Post by tonyw on Feb 2, 2011 0:04:58 GMT
i do agree something needs to be done and they need some help but i dont think they are as bad you are making out, i think everyones a little annoyed that we have lost wait till saturday when we get back on track! with a clean sheet! i believe! On Saturday? Against McDonald & Akinfenwa (noone that fat should be that good). Honestly, I could see Saturday beeing one of those krazy League Two 6-4 bonanzas!! Think that clean sheet is more likely to wait till Rotherham. Oh no, wait, they've still got Le Fondre haven't they? Better make it Stevenage! As far as what to do is concerned, honestly I think it's tricky with our current squad and our current system. We're basically playing two full backs who are better going forward than they are defensively. We don't have an outstanding defensive midfielder (I think McClaren is a great player, but again - his chief talents are somewhat creative). We play three up front. One of our CBs is young and experienced, the other varies from World Class to Pub team in a matter of minutes. It's not hugely surprising that we're conceding goals (not masses of goals - just consistent goals). But thankfully we're scoring a hatful as well. When Atkins was here, we barely conceded at all and everyone complained about a lack of attack. The results are roughly similar this way round, but surely everyone's having more fun??
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Post by druid on Feb 2, 2011 0:33:11 GMT
Eastwood - no Purkiss - he's playing the next 3 anyway Kinniburgh - depends if Tonkin can resume his form from before hand Sangare - I'd literally put him above Wright for Gillingham Gaughan - Same applies with Sangare. Have you actually seen Sangare play for more than 5 mins?
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Post by socrates on Feb 2, 2011 0:36:50 GMT
It's not about showing faith in individuals. As I've said on another thread, the players we have aren't going to get better
What they can become is better organised
They are not being coached or drilled properly at how to defend set-pieces and crosses.
It is there for all to see.
Every time the ball goes in the air in our six yard box we look like conceding. And the rest of this division know it.
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Feb 2, 2011 0:44:41 GMT
It's not about showing faith in individuals. As I've said on another thread, the players we have aren't going to get better What they can become is better organised They are not being coached or drilled properly at how to defend set-pieces and crosses. It is there for all to see. Every time the ball goes in the air in our six yard box we look like conceding. And the rest of this division know it. A fair assessment. Stevenage games will be interesting. They score a huge amount of goals from set pieces and balls into the box.
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Post by foghornleghorn on Feb 2, 2011 1:01:39 GMT
People on here always rave about Wright and Worley being fantastic centre backs but the longest period without a clean sheet on the entire country suggest otherwise. 22 games without a clean sheet is a disgrace. I'm not sure what can be done outside the transfer window, emergency loan or something, but if we don't change the back four we'll slip meekly into mid table obscurity. Maybe they are fantastic, maybe the problem is elsewhere. Could be coaching , could.be tactics, could be something else. In these 22 games, how many of the goals were from set pieces? You cant single out two players for those, there should be at least 9 players defending corners (for example)
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Post by Si Bradbury on Feb 2, 2011 11:20:35 GMT
I didn't go last night so cannot comment on the performances of our back-line. However, having seen virtually all of the home and away games since mid November I think two things are apparent.
Our defending at set-pieces is not up to scratch yet we have a manager and first team coach who were defenders. We have an assistant manager who was a defensive midfielder.
Melville is getting lots of stick but if the players don't listen then that's a problem that needs addressing. If the coach cannot transmit his messages then that needs to be sorted.
However as for personal, Tonkin has been good for the last month or so. His home performances of late have been excellent. Likewise that of Batt who has put in solid and excellent performances. The Centre-back pairing is the issue in my view and we need some experience in there. I think that would solve some of the problems, names like Adam Barrett who cannot get a game at Palace - would be the type of player we need.
The back-up defenders have appeared not been able to take their chances and in my view are no better than the current back-line. Kinniborough is not as good as Tonkin in a defensive position, Purkiss has disappointed me, Sangare is a squad player and Gaughan seems a pointless waste of a wage.
A loan signing until the end of the season, an experienced pro, is what I think we require but we certainly don't need wholesale changes.
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Post by boltonsmiley on Feb 2, 2011 11:24:48 GMT
Purkiss, Wright and Tonkins are always making silly mistakes which often result in goals. From Corners we always look like letting a goal in where as when we have corners we never seem to score, seems we want a good header of the ball especially in defence.
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Post by Marked Ox on Feb 3, 2011 12:32:37 GMT
I understand where you're coming from on the 'winning' point. But we've been waiting 23 games for a clean sheet. The longest wait in the COUNTRY. The winning excuse just cannot make up for it! How is winning an excuse?! I don't care how many we concede if we win. Yes, the team (incl. all 11 players+subs) need to cut out errors as much as possible for L2 players, but to describe winning as an excuse is frankly is mindbogglingly bizarre.
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Post by Marked Ox on Feb 3, 2011 12:46:36 GMT
Eastwood - no Purkiss - he's playing the next 3 anyway Kinniburgh - depends if Tonkin can resume his form from before hand Sangare - I'd literally put him above Wright for Gillingham Gaughan - Same applies with Sangare. Have you actually seen Sangare play for more than 5 mins? Agreed. When he has come on as a sub he hasn't exactly inspired confidence. This may just be down to getting up to the speed of a game when in the final minutes or nerves because he is settling in but to suggest he should start ahead of Jake Wright is bonkers. The same applies to Gaughan, Beav have you seen him play? I trust CW on this one and he is sticking with Worley/Wright. As an aside Beav, how much have you seen Eastwood play? As you dismiss him as not being good enough to replace Clarkey yet push forward Sangare as being better than Wright for the Gillingham game. I don't think Clarkey should be dropped but that isn't to do with Eastwood not being good enough (as I've only seen one game with him playing and then he looked a decent player with potential) but rather Clarkey deserves his starting spot. I do agree with the poster who talks about organisation of the defence, especially for set-pieces. For corners, a player on each post and the rest man-mark a designated player. Clarkey or one of Wright/Worley need to take charge of organising corners. Free-kicks/throw-ins, again, man-mark the opponents again.
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