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Post by ryaniobirdio on Sept 10, 2017 11:35:05 GMT
A question a lot of people have asked recently, and that I myself asked over the summer. However, when you actually lay our squad out on paper, it becomes quite obvious where it's gone: wages. And lots of them.
GK: Eastwood, Shearer, Stevens, Agboola.
DF: Ribeiro, Long, Carroll, Ricardinho, Tiendalli, Williamson, Mousinho, Nelson, Martin, Raglan, Kelleher.
MF: Ledson, Ruffels, Xemi, Baptiste, Pekalski. Mowatt, Rothwell, Payne, Henry, Hall, Napa.
FW: Obika, Thomas, van Kessel, Mehmeti, Roberts, Hemmings.
That is 32 professional footballers. Sure, a handful of them are youngsters / early year pros and a few are out on loan, but even accounting for them we've got a very sizeable squad of quality / experienced pros. I would argue that of those 32, the vast majority are more than capable of playing a good amount of games. We've easily got two separate starting 11s with at least a couple of spares leftover - that's a lot of depth.
Then break down who some of them are and where they've been / how high they've played. We've got multiple internationals, top flight championship winners, Champions League and Europa League players, former established PL and Championship players, players on loan from much higher up the pyramid, players who left PL clubs to sign here permanently... this squad won't be cheap. At all.
I would have liked to have seen us 'splash the cash' more visibly once or twice and I have separate concerns about the medium / long term makeup of the squad in terms of age and so forth, but... this is comfortably the biggest and best squad we've had in probably 20 years. It probably isn't as good as the first 11 we could put out at times a couple of years ago, but in terms of an 18, a 21, a 25... it's far superior. This will not be cheap.
Just thought it might be interesting to properly lay it all out like this, given that the issue of spending seems to still be coming up a fair bit, be it on here, at games, on the phone ins etc. I don't see how even taking away a couple of players from last season, this squad hasn't cost a hell of a lot more to put together.
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Post by dabigfella on Sept 10, 2017 12:44:06 GMT
It's amazing how many people forget about players wages when they talk about the money spent (or not, recently)
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Post by Mark on Sept 10, 2017 12:52:09 GMT
Also remember last season we'd still have had many players signed when we were in League 2, plus I reckon some players would have taken lower wages in return for the chance to shine under Appleton and get a move to a higher club.
The programme notes also say the club wasn't prepared to overpay this last transfer window, suggesting there is some budget left for January (although we were told that last year too).
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Post by behindthegoal on Sept 10, 2017 12:54:40 GMT
Goodness, we've done ok up 'till now without the need to splash out....when the need comes I'm sure the club will spend.
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Post by ox4eva on Sept 10, 2017 13:00:42 GMT
We do not have many ways to create revenue and I think the management team have worked wonders so far in trying to keep the club on the straight and narrow.
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Post by nottsyellow on Sept 10, 2017 13:10:06 GMT
I really don't understand some fans obsession with paying transfer fees. Just because a fee is paid, it does not guarantee a great player. We did not pay a fee for Roofe, Hall or Ledson and these have been a success. Perhaps it is better to get a player on a free and pay them a bit more in wages over the 2 year contract. Example:- We paid £350k for Hemmings who looked a decent purchase and good prospect and he was possibly, on say £3.5k p/wk. Total cost over 2 years, incl transfer fee = £700K Hall was free but perhaps we are paying him £6k p/wk. Total cost over 2 years £600k. So over 2 years, taking account of all costs perhaps Hall is cheaper than Hemmings. I am purely guessing on these wages figures, and guessing that Hall was on more than Hemmings. So whilst good players with potential can be picked on free, what is the point on spending £100k's on day one on a player? Might as well save the money until we are 100% sure, take the time, fully assess the proposed purchase to ensure the transfer fee is value for money.
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Post by wallop on Sept 10, 2017 13:59:40 GMT
I really don't understand some fans obsession with paying transfer fees. Just because a fee is paid, it does not guarantee a great player. We did not pay a fee for Roofe, Hall or Ledson and these have been a success. Perhaps it is better to get a player on a free and pay them a bit more in wages over the 2 year contract. Example:- We paid £350k for Hemmings who looked a decent purchase and good prospect and he was possibly, on say £3.5k p/wk. Total cost over 2 years, incl transfer fee = £700K Hall was free but perhaps we are paying him £6k p/wk. Total cost over 2 years £600k. So over 2 years, taking account of all costs perhaps Hall is cheaper than Hemmings. I am purely guessing on these wages figures, and guessing that Hall was on more than Hemmings. So whilst good players with potential can be picked on free, what is the point on spending £100k's on day one on a player? Might as well save the money until we are 100% sure, take the time, fully assess the proposed purchase to ensure the transfer fee is value for money. We did pay a fee for Ledson (c.£150k) if memory serves and I think we also paid a small fee for Roofe - £30k or so.
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Post by nottsyellow on Sept 10, 2017 14:04:21 GMT
I really don't understand some fans obsession with paying transfer fees. Just because a fee is paid, it does not guarantee a great player. We did not pay a fee for Roofe, Hall or Ledson and these have been a success. Perhaps it is better to get a player on a free and pay them a bit more in wages over the 2 year contract. Example:- We paid £350k for Hemmings who looked a decent purchase and good prospect and he was possibly, on say £3.5k p/wk. Total cost over 2 years, incl transfer fee = £700K Hall was free but perhaps we are paying him £6k p/wk. Total cost over 2 years £600k. So over 2 years, taking account of all costs perhaps Hall is cheaper than Hemmings. I am purely guessing on these wages figures, and guessing that Hall was on more than Hemmings. So whilst good players with potential can be picked on free, what is the point on spending £100k's on day one on a player? Might as well save the money until we are 100% sure, take the time, fully assess the proposed purchase to ensure the transfer fee is value for money. We did pay a fee for Ledson (c.£150k) if memory serves and I think we also paid a small fee for Roofe - £30k or so. Yeah, re Ledson, sorry I meant Lundstrum.
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Post by yellowg on Sept 10, 2017 19:40:54 GMT
By Christ we ain't skimping!!! That is some squad, some depth and I would guess some £££ invested in OUFC for L1 football. ^^^
We have made a very decent start and feel confident that we will actually get better. Our bench yesterday was a bit epic with pace, strength, stability and creativity waiting in the wings, and I feel we have many options. We have all talked about the notion of competition for places in the past, but it's been a case of wishful thinking until now.
This season excites me. Not because I think that we just have a strong 11, but because we are in one hell of a position to change things around should things go a little tits up for a game or 2. Even through Appletons tenure you could bet who was going to start as long as the squad were fit. There are now many different variables to who plays and why. Just looking at the central defensive and mid field options gets me scratching my head in mild anxiety.
I would love us to have a league winning side. And I think we're gonna give it a right go.
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Post by holdsteady on Sept 10, 2017 20:27:59 GMT
I think if we can keep in touch for the first half of the season then we will come on strong in the second half of it, when all our players will be match fit/sharp, Pep will have learnt more about his squad/this league and our squad strength will be a huge plus over the rest of the league.
My only worry is that the gap might be a bit big, Clotet is having to learn on the job so will make mistakes for the first few months as that is part of the learning process, but with a bit of luck in some games I am starting to get hopeful that we will be a strong finishing promotion side that you sometimes get.
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Post by onlyme on Sept 10, 2017 23:03:44 GMT
It's amazing how many people forget about players wages when they talk about the money spent (or not, recently) Those people are fools.
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Post by bigronaldo on Sept 11, 2017 7:11:36 GMT
It's amazing how many people forget about players wages when they talk about the money spent (or not, recently) Those people are fools. Who are those guys?😂
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 7:48:36 GMT
As has been said we have a very strong squad, and we still have a couple to come back. I was hoping for a recognised striker to come in, but going by Saturday we have strength in the side and goals. Fortunately or defence doesn't look suspect and with Eastwood staying fit we should be fine. I'd like to see us try and get Jack Payne permanently as he makes the side tick. Not sure if Hall is on £6000pw....that sounds a lot. Are we paying some of Hemmings wages too? I hope he does well at Mamsfield as we can then recall him of at least retrieve some of the fee we paid
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Post by finlandia on Sept 11, 2017 12:39:34 GMT
As has been said we have a very strong squad, and we still have a couple to come back. I was hoping for a recognised striker to come in, but going by Saturday we have strength in the side and goals. Fortunately or defence doesn't look suspect and with Eastwood staying fit we should be fine. I'd like to see us try and get Jack Payne permanently as he makes the side tick. Not sure if Hall is on £6000pw....that sounds a lot. Are we paying some of Hemmings wages too? I hope he does well at Mamsfield as we can then recall him of at least retrieve some of the fee we paid Maybe ask CM? He was spot on with Roofe......
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Post by socrates on Sept 11, 2017 14:54:24 GMT
I would imagine we have paid loan fees for Payne and Mowatt
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Post by socrates on Sept 11, 2017 14:55:31 GMT
I really don't understand some fans obsession with paying transfer fees. Just because a fee is paid, it does not guarantee a great player. We did not pay a fee for Roofe, Hall or Ledson and these have been a success. Perhaps it is better to get a player on a free and pay them a bit more in wages over the 2 year contract. Example:- We paid £350k for Hemmings who looked a decent purchase and good prospect and he was possibly, on say £3.5k p/wk. Total cost over 2 years, incl transfer fee = £700K Hall was free but perhaps we are paying him £6k p/wk. Total cost over 2 years £600k. So over 2 years, taking account of all costs perhaps Hall is cheaper than Hemmings. I am purely guessing on these wages figures, and guessing that Hall was on more than Hemmings. So whilst good players with potential can be picked on free, what is the point on spending £100k's on day one on a player? Might as well save the money until we are 100% sure, take the time, fully assess the proposed purchase to ensure the transfer fee is value for money. don't be silly
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Post by Left Wing Cross on Sept 11, 2017 16:28:27 GMT
I would imagine we have paid loan fees for Payne and Mowatt Very likely. Loans are not free and sometimes cost a significant amount. Although not on the same scale, I heard that Stoke are playing Chelsea £7m for one season of Kurt Zouma!
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Post by Mark on Sept 11, 2017 16:32:58 GMT
In the Wilder interview about transfer deadline day, he says that having to pay a loan fee like a transfer fee is something new, but becoming more common.
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Post by tonyw on Sept 11, 2017 17:57:33 GMT
It's amazing how many people forget about players wages when they talk about the money spent (or not, recently) There's a chapter in Simon Kuper's (excellent.....if you're a statto like me) book "Why England Lose and other Curious football phenomena explained" that covers this issue. And actually, if you look at the data, it's transfer fees that you can pretty much forget. The correlation between a club's wage bill and their finishing position in the league is extreme. The amount you play your players is shown to be a vastly better predictor of success than the amount you play for your players. Course we don't know exactly where we stand in terms of League One wage bills. Certain we're behind Blackburn and Wigan.....but it's possible that we're top six, and we're almost certainly top ten. So that should be the expectation for the season, regardless of the fact we've not been forking out transfer fees.
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Post by Junior on Sept 11, 2017 18:32:52 GMT
I would imagine we have paid loan fees for Payne and Mowatt Quite sizeable for clubs at this level as well I'd imagine..
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Post by charliesghost on Sept 15, 2017 20:06:28 GMT
It's amazing how many people forget about players wages when they talk about the money spent (or not, recently) There's a chapter in Simon Kuper's (excellent.....if you're a statto like me) book "Why England Lose and other Curious football phenomena explained" that covers this issue. And actually, if you look at the data, it's transfer fees that you can pretty much forget. The correlation between a club's wage bill and their finishing position in the league is extreme. The amount you play your players is shown to be a vastly better predictor of success than the amount you play for your players. Course we don't know exactly where we stand in terms of League One wage bills. Certain we're behind Blackburn and Wigan.....but it's possible that we're top six, and we're almost certainly top ten. So that should be the expectation for the season, regardless of the fact we've not been forking out transfer fees. Think that's right - definitely top six and not carrying championship wages downwards either. It's been a smart strategy. The football management side of the club has covered itself in glory. Think they've more or less broken even over three years of steady progress. Not paying a transfer fee for, say, Obika doesn't make them any worse than paying out for a league 2 striker under contract. We start off with a hand tied behind our backs because of the stadium situation. It's huge credit to all involved that that has been largely overcome. How long that can sustainably continue is open to question, but that isn't a comment on anyone's fault, just a realistic comment on life.
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Post by londonroader on Sept 16, 2017 5:48:56 GMT
The problem trying to equate the financial side of players in and out at the moment, is over the last 12-18 months the commodity of the player has risen so sharply and the old way of thinking is not covering the situation fully.
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Post by charliesghost on Sept 16, 2017 6:57:26 GMT
The problem trying to equate the financial side of players in and out at the moment, is over the last 12-18 months the commodity of the player has risen so sharply and the old way of thinking is not covering the situation fully. I think you're right. The inflation of even fairly average (in the big scheme of things) players' value seems to be steepling on a consistent basis right now. It's like the property market of 2006 - every time you think 'this is ridiculous - surely it's reached a peak' a new spike comes along. Four years ago, a player like Marvin would have been worth 500k. Honestly. Look at the prices even top League 1 players were going for then. We are currently in prime position as a shop window as a top 10 League 1 club. But I think that we are also now bumping our heads against the ceiling of how good you can be without spending a bit to improve your own squad with permanent players in their prime. Therefore, I reckon our progression to older players and loanees is natural if we want to improve without spending. But those players - ready-made - then block the progress of the up-and-comers who might then make you the next inflated transfer out but who might need some patience. If Lunny had played this season as he did in the first two months of last season he wouldn't have held his place in the side. And a bit-part League 1 player wuth a year on his contract wouldn't have been sold for 750k!! Swings and roundabouts, but yes its a fast-changing market and our recruitment dept seems to understand it better than most...
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Post by finlandia on Sept 16, 2017 7:07:11 GMT
I'm also pleasantly surprised by the flexibility of our recruiting team. As said above, it's a changing market and the way we have changed our model flawlessly and been successful should be applauded
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Post by plonker on Sept 16, 2017 11:46:43 GMT
Am I right in assuming that Darryl is also responsible for financially backing the women's team as well? If so, then he deserves some credit for that, too. 13 new players in since the end of last season. He has really trusted Andy Cook to put a team together for next season. And he's done this for the good of the women's game and Oxford United, not any potential financial gain. I believe there's very little chance of that in women's football at the moment. I thought it was worth acknowledging. Cheap plug time: Oxford play Man City on November 2nd at CPF. Great chance to see some of the England team. Tickets are just £5 for adults, or £1 if you're a ST holder.
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