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Obika
Sept 5, 2017 21:04:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by charliesghost on Sept 5, 2017 21:04:21 GMT
But what is consistent is that the players up the top of the pitch need to score and create goals as a unit. In the last three league games, we have scored 2 goals. Rob Hall and Gino. So when our centre forward butchers a great opportunity to win the game he is going to come under the microscope a bit. He clearly has great physical attributes, but there will be reasons why - in his mid 20s - he hasn't yet made it. And getting a player to change at this point in their career is tough. I'd imagine that he is going to do the odd thing that makes us jump out of our seats and the odd thing that is going to make us tear our hair out. And will probably get 10 or so league goals and we will feel like he could have got more. I may well be wrong but reckon Obika could be quite a star this season. He hasn't made it yet but Spurs had him for 6 years so must have seen something in him. Sure his judgement needs to be better but if he were to score 2-3 goals in successive games it would be good to see him full of confidence. My point is that saying 'his judgement should be better' is like saying 'he should be quicker. It is another attribute. Call it peripheral vision, calmness under pressure, or instinct. You either have it or you do not. Teddy Sheringham built a stellar career out of almost this attribute alone. Jon Obika does not have it, which is why - despite the physical attributes of a top two division player - he is now a career lower league striker. We can HOPE that staying fit and playing with some good players will bring out the best in his attributes and he can bulldoze his way to 15 goals (league, not tinpot trophy). That is realistic, I think, if not necessarily probable.
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Post by bacon on Sept 6, 2017 4:51:34 GMT
Forwards generally don't score goals the way they used to in the modern game, because the way teams play and set up is so vastly different. Most teams now play one up front with others pushing on from midfield to join in the attacks. If anything the job of the forward now is about providing assists and acting as a distraction / nuisance to create space for the on rushing attacking midfield players. Obika isn't supposed to score 15-20 goals - that isn't the point of him. It wasn't the point of Taylor either. Unfortunately a lot of football fans aren't very clever and still believe that 4-4-2 is the only formation you can ever succeed with at any level, and that any player deemed to be playing 'up front' should be getting a goal every other game to be considered useful. If Obika started the next 20 games and only scored five goals, but the three midfielders and wingers behind him all scored 10 goals each, loads of people would moan that he doesn't score enough and that we're lucky our midfield is carrying him by scoring so many goals themselves. I can see it now and it's giving me heart palpitations just thinking about it. Great post. Bang on
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Post by thesecretposter on Sept 6, 2017 5:20:11 GMT
Can never blame a striker for trying especially at League 1 level. Decision making is a skill and if that had been an Alli and Kane combo at Spurs there would have been an argument to moan! How many times have we said "someone shoot for goodness sake" rather than pass sideways round the box...? Not sure that I agree with that. Gino was free with a one on one with the keeper. Obika had two defenders round him and chose to shoot (blasted it over the Bar). Had he squared it we would probably have had three points. At whatever level it was a poor decision What eraser is saying though is decision making and judging the situation might not be a skill Obika has in abundance. There's nothing saying he can't improve that trait but, as a striker you want to score goals and get somewhat blinkered to the situation around you.
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Obika
Sept 6, 2017 5:46:19 GMT
via mobile
makv likes this
Post by yellowbow on Sept 6, 2017 5:46:19 GMT
I may well be wrong but reckon Obika could be quite a star this season. He hasn't made it yet but Spurs had him for 6 years so must have seen something in him. Sure his judgement needs to be better but if he were to score 2-3 goals in successive games it would be good to see him full of confidence. My point is that saying 'his judgement should be better' is like saying 'he should be quicker. It is another attribute. Call it peripheral vision, calmness under pressure, or instinct. You either have it or you do not. Teddy Sheringham built a stellar career out of almost this attribute alone. Jon Obika does not have it, which is why - despite the physical attributes of a top two division player - he is now a career lower league striker. We can HOPE that staying fit and playing with some good players will bring out the best in his attributes and he can bulldoze his way to 15 goals (league, not tinpot trophy). That is realistic, I think, if not necessarily probable. I get what you're saying, his career has been a little sketchy so far but sometimes a player will find the right club at the right time and things click into place for them. Some strikers developed later in their careers. As for that chance late on Saturday, maybe he's feeling the pressure to notch a few early on to help him settle down and that's clouding his judgment a little bit. We all act differently under pressure. Hopefully he'll get a couple of lucky breaks, one or two bouncinging in off of his knee or arse and then he'll be up and running. From what I've seen so far he deserves a little bit of slack.
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Post by scotchegg on Sept 6, 2017 6:46:43 GMT
I may well be wrong but reckon Obika could be quite a star this season. He hasn't made it yet but Spurs had him for 6 years so must have seen something in him. Sure his judgement needs to be better but if he were to score 2-3 goals in successive games it would be good to see him full of confidence. My point is that saying 'his judgement should be better' is like saying 'he should be quicker. It is another attribute. Call it peripheral vision, calmness under pressure, or instinct. You either have it or you do not. Teddy Sheringham built a stellar career out of almost this attribute alone. Jon Obika does not have it, which is why - despite the physical attributes of a top two division player - he is now a career lower league striker. We can HOPE that staying fit and playing with some good players will bring out the best in his attributes and he can bulldoze his way to 15 goals (league, not tinpot trophy). That is realistic, I think, if not necessarily probable. Thierry Henry is possibly the only striker I've seen in the last decade who pretty much always made the right decision to pass or shoot, and even he got it wrong at times. Strikers are often fairly selfish by nature and even the very best are guilty of shooting when a team mate is better placed. Judging Obika on this alone in crazy, and I'd rather have someone who has the physical attributes and skills that give them the opportunities to be in the right positions at the right time - even if they occasionally make the wrong choice. I'd also rather see Obika score 7 or 8 and go up off the back of giving space and goals for others, rather than him getting a hatful in a mid table side. Let's judge him, and the team over several games rather than a split second decision in game 5!
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Obika
Sept 6, 2017 8:02:53 GMT
Post by paulbeasley on Sept 6, 2017 8:02:53 GMT
I may well be wrong but reckon Obika could be quite a star this season. He hasn't made it yet but Spurs had him for 6 years so must have seen something in him. Sure his judgement needs to be better but if he were to score 2-3 goals in successive games it would be good to see him full of confidence. My point is that saying 'his judgement should be better' is like saying 'he should be quicker. It is another attribute. Call it peripheral vision, calmness under pressure, or instinct. You either have it or you do not. Teddy Sheringham built a stellar career out of almost this attribute alone. Jon Obika does not have it, which is why - despite the physical attributes of a top two division player - he is now a career lower league striker. We can HOPE that staying fit and playing with some good players will bring out the best in his attributes and he can bulldoze his way to 15 goals (league, not tinpot trophy). That is realistic, I think, if not necessarily probable. In theory it should be easier to improve a player's judgement by coaching than it is to make them quicker. Anyway, Saturday's incident may have been a one off. Even if it wasn't Obika to date has brought more positives than negatives to the team.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 6, 2017 8:08:34 GMT
I may well be wrong but reckon Obika could be quite a star this season. He hasn't made it yet but Spurs had him for 6 years so must have seen something in him. Sure his judgement needs to be better but if he were to score 2-3 goals in successive games it would be good to see him full of confidence. My point is that saying 'his judgement should be better' is like saying 'he should be quicker. It is another attribute. Call it peripheral vision, calmness under pressure, or instinct. You either have it or you do not. Teddy Sheringham built a stellar career out of almost this attribute alone. Jon Obika does not have it, which is why - despite the physical attributes of a top two division player - he is now a career lower league striker. We can HOPE that staying fit and playing with some good players will bring out the best in his attributes and he can bulldoze his way to 15 goals (league, not tinpot trophy). That is realistic, I think, if not necessarily probable. Bit harsh, striker by nature want to score goals, if he thought he could score it then have a pop. On this occasion there was a much better option, but we've been screaming out for players to shoot in recent seasons. Would maguire have squared it or taken the shot? I'd say 100% shot. If we had squared the ball at Wembley hemmings would have tapped home to equalise. I don't think it lack of vision, just a striker making the wrong decision in a split second and going for glory
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Post by foley on Sept 6, 2017 11:05:24 GMT
My point is that saying 'his judgement should be better' is like saying 'he should be quicker. It is another attribute. Call it peripheral vision, calmness under pressure, or instinct. You either have it or you do not. Teddy Sheringham built a stellar career out of almost this attribute alone. Jon Obika does not have it, which is why - despite the physical attributes of a top two division player - he is now a career lower league striker. We can HOPE that staying fit and playing with some good players will bring out the best in his attributes and he can bulldoze his way to 15 goals (league, not tinpot trophy). That is realistic, I think, if not necessarily probable. Bit harsh, striker by nature want to score goals, if he thought he could score it then have a pop. On this occasion there was a much better option, but we've been screaming out for players to shoot in recent seasons. Would maguire have squared it or taken the shot? I'd say 100% shot. If we had squared the ball at Wembley hemmings would have tapped home to equalise. I don't think it lack of vision, just a striker making the wrong decision in a split second and going for glory And to be fair, watching both the England and Ireland games this week, both teams were lacking composure and made a number of mistakes in shooting when they should have passed. So this happens at the 'top' level as well.
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Post by chippsy on Sept 6, 2017 11:24:43 GMT
My point is that saying 'his judgement should be better' is like saying 'he should be quicker. It is another attribute. Call it peripheral vision, calmness under pressure, or instinct. You either have it or you do not. Teddy Sheringham built a stellar career out of almost this attribute alone. Jon Obika does not have it, which is why - despite the physical attributes of a top two division player - he is now a career lower league striker. We can HOPE that staying fit and playing with some good players will bring out the best in his attributes and he can bulldoze his way to 15 goals (league, not tinpot trophy). That is realistic, I think, if not necessarily probable. Bit harsh, striker by nature want to score goals, if he thought he could score it then have a pop. On this occasion there was a much better option, but we've been screaming out for players to shoot in recent seasons. Would maguire have squared it or taken the shot? I'd say 100% shot. If we had squared the ball at Wembley hemmings would have tapped home to equalise. I don't think it lack of vision, just a striker making the wrong decision in a split second and going for glory And to be fair it is always easy from the sidelines or with the benefit of hindsight. If he had laid it off and Gino squandered the chance Obika would probably have come in for criticism for not shooting; Or, if his shot was a worldy and gave us the victory he would have been a legend. Small margins. I really like him.
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Post by oufc28 on Sept 6, 2017 11:44:14 GMT
Another point I'd like to make is that obika clearly knows he has come in from one rival club to another and is clearly working his bollox off to win the fans over. He joins in celebrations when we score and when he scored at stevenage although there were a only a few yellows fans there he made a point to run over to the stand. He is giving everything on the pitch and okay his decision making and finish was poor on Saturday he deserves a lot of credit for coming into a situation where he knows he's gunna get stick no matter what he does and not shying away from it. I quite like the lad personally and think he'll be a huge asset this season.
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Sept 6, 2017 12:10:01 GMT
He can't half strike a ball, too.
He offers a good amount and people who don't support him are idiots.
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Obika
Sept 6, 2017 13:41:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by charliesghost on Sept 6, 2017 13:41:32 GMT
My point is that saying 'his judgement should be better' is like saying 'he should be quicker. It is another attribute. Call it peripheral vision, calmness under pressure, or instinct. You either have it or you do not. Teddy Sheringham built a stellar career out of almost this attribute alone. Jon Obika does not have it, which is why - despite the physical attributes of a top two division player - he is now a career lower league striker. We can HOPE that staying fit and playing with some good players will bring out the best in his attributes and he can bulldoze his way to 15 goals (league, not tinpot trophy). That is realistic, I think, if not necessarily probable. In theory it should be easier to improve a player's judgement by coaching than it is to make them quicker. Anyway, Saturday's incident may have been a one off. Even if it wasn't Obika to date has brought more positives than negatives to the team. My observation was not based on one incident. I've seen him play at least ten games and this us what he is like. If fans want to believe that he's the next Dele Alli they can delude themselves all they want. He's not. What he is is a powerful, not unskilful athlete, who is quick and strong enough to give lower league centre backs a problem. That's not bad, is It? Just don't expect him to be much more than that and everyone will be fine. He's not the next Billy Hamilton, but is a step-up on Ryan Taylor when it comes to getting in goalscoring positions, as he has more pace/mobility.
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Post by makv on Sept 6, 2017 13:45:49 GMT
He can't half strike a ball, too. He offers a good amount and people who don't support him are idiots. I was watching the warmup stuff before the Shrews game. I tend to avoid this normally because I get depressed about the ability of our players to actually put it in the back of the net, but the 2 who struck me were Obika and Payne. They both sure can hit it.
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Post by scotchegg on Sept 6, 2017 16:04:14 GMT
In theory it should be easier to improve a player's judgement by coaching than it is to make them quicker. Anyway, Saturday's incident may have been a one off. Even if it wasn't Obika to date has brought more positives than negatives to the team. My observation was not based on one incident. I've seen him play at least ten games and this us what he is like. If fans want to believe that he's the next Dele Alli they can delude themselves all they want. He's not. What he is is a powerful, not unskilful athlete, who is quick and strong enough to give lower league centre backs a problem. That's not bad, is It? Just don't expect him to be much more than that and everyone will be fine. He's not the next Billy Hamilton, but is a step-up on Ryan Taylor when it comes to getting in goalscoring positions, as he has more pace/mobility. Charlie, you argue like a child sometimes!! No one was comparing Obika to Dele Alli (totally different player for a start!). Well done you for seeing him in more than 10 games, but let's be honest, your football knowledge is usually sketchy at best. He would have played with various different striking partners in those games and in different formations so it's not realistic to judge someone's 'vision' with so many variables in the equation. Rather than looking at Dele Alli, I would look at someone like Emile Heskey. Started out as a battering ram centre forward who had a decent enough goal ratio without setting the world alight. Then through Liverpool/England he develops a partnership with Owen where he does the donkey work leaving space for Owen to play in scoring a sackful in the process. This doesn't need to be hugely coached, just looking at making the right runs to create space for GvK and knowing when to make the pass and when to shoot. This doesn't come after a game or two, not even for Dele Alli (still don't get the relevance??!!). Give the pair a dozen games together and I bet even you will be impressed! That'll give you more time to moan about Williamson being in his 50's or whatever you were wittering on about!!!
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 6, 2017 16:07:16 GMT
Deli Ali's view on the methven comparison
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Sept 7, 2017 7:57:02 GMT
Forwards generally don't score goals the way they used to in the modern game, because the way teams play and set up is so vastly different. Most teams now play one up front with others pushing on from midfield to join in the attacks. If anything the job of the forward now is about providing assists and acting as a distraction / nuisance to create space for the on rushing attacking midfield players. Obika isn't supposed to score 15-20 goals - that isn't the point of him. It wasn't the point of Taylor either. Unfortunately a lot of football fans aren't very clever and still believe that 4-4-2 is the only formation you can ever succeed with at any level, and that any player deemed to be playing 'up front' should be getting a goal every other game to be considered useful. If Obika started the next 20 games and only scored five goals, but the three midfielders and wingers behind him all scored 10 goals each, loads of people would moan that he doesn't score enough and that we're lucky our midfield is carrying him by scoring so many goals themselves. I can see it now and it's giving me heart palpitations just thinking about it. I'm afraid that I don't think it is as simple as that. Top-class target men at any level DO score a hatful. C.f. Harry Kane, Billy Sharp, ibrahimovic, Costa, Drogba the list goes on. But those players are gold dust, at whichever level they are playing at (I included Sharp to show that it is not purely a top-flight thing. Remember Paul Moody? Happy playing on his own upfront - big, mobile, caused a nuisance, scored goals. And that was at this level. Steve Morison at Millwall last year? Do I need to go on? 442 is actually a newish system.The old-fashioned one had a centre forward with two inside forwards. That is somewhat akin to what many teams play today. There's nothing new under the sun! But what is consistent is that the players up the top of the pitch need to score and create goals as a unit. In the last three league games, we have scored 2 goals. Rob Hall and Gino. So when our centre forward butchers a great opportunity to win the game he is going to come under the microscope a bit. He clearly has great physical attributes, but there will be reasons why - in his mid 20s - he hasn't yet made it. And getting a player to change at this point in their career is tough. I'd imagine that he is going to do the odd thing that makes us jump out of our seats and the odd thing that is going to make us tear our hair out. And will probably get 10 or so league goals and we will feel like he could have got more. With all due respect, Charlie, between my time at the club, reporting on games for the national papers and doing some scouting work for a very well known football league club, I've seen a fair bit of football and know a fair bit of what to look for and how it works tactically, and the lone striker role at this level is not meant to produce 20 goals a season. Obviously no one will turn it down but no one expects it and it doesn't happen regularly. You name Billy Sharp - didn't play on his own up top. Sheffield United have played 3-5-2 religiously under Wilder. You name Steve Morison - didn't play up top on his own. He's almost always been played alongside someone (usually Lee Gregory) in a two. You cite Paul Moody from 20 years ago - didn't play up top on his own. We only ever played 4-4-2 and he was always alongside one of Rush, Aldridge etc. The only strikers you've listed who do score bagfuls of goals and play as a lone striker are world class and are surrounded by equally brilliant players. Lone, one up top strikers at this level aren't capable of scoring that many goals and because most of the coaches and managers are aware of that, they don't expect them to and use them in a different way. Even our pal Highlights, who if he is to be believed is an analyst working for a pro club, has stated exactly the same as I, that the one up top role isn't about banging in 20 goals every season until you reach elite level, where it is quite literally a different game to what we see down here.
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Obika
Sept 7, 2017 8:15:30 GMT
Post by campbell on Sept 7, 2017 8:15:30 GMT
I'm afraid that I don't think it is as simple as that. Top-class target men at any level DO score a hatful. C.f. Harry Kane, Billy Sharp, ibrahimovic, Costa, Drogba the list goes on. But those players are gold dust, at whichever level they are playing at (I included Sharp to show that it is not purely a top-flight thing. Remember Paul Moody? Happy playing on his own upfront - big, mobile, caused a nuisance, scored goals. And that was at this level. Steve Morison at Millwall last year? Do I need to go on? 442 is actually a newish system.The old-fashioned one had a centre forward with two inside forwards. That is somewhat akin to what many teams play today. There's nothing new under the sun! But what is consistent is that the players up the top of the pitch need to score and create goals as a unit. In the last three league games, we have scored 2 goals. Rob Hall and Gino. So when our centre forward butchers a great opportunity to win the game he is going to come under the microscope a bit. He clearly has great physical attributes, but there will be reasons why - in his mid 20s - he hasn't yet made it. And getting a player to change at this point in their career is tough. I'd imagine that he is going to do the odd thing that makes us jump out of our seats and the odd thing that is going to make us tear our hair out. And will probably get 10 or so league goals and we will feel like he could have got more. With all due respect, Charlie, between my time at the club, reporting on games for the national papers and doing some scouting work for a very well known football league club, I've seen a fair bit of football and know a fair bit of what to look for and how it works tactically, and the lone striker role at this level is not meant to produce 20 goals a season. Obviously no one will turn it down but no one expects it and it doesn't happen regularly. You name Billy Sharp - didn't play on his own up top. Sheffield United have played 3-5-2 religiously under Wilder. You name Steve Morison - didn't play up top on his own. He's almost always been played alongside someone (usually Lee Gregory) in a two. You cite Paul Moody from 20 years ago - didn't play up top on his own. We only ever played 4-4-2 and he was always alongside one of Rush, Aldridge etc. The only strikers you've listed who do score bagfuls of goals and play as a lone striker are world class and are surrounded by equally brilliant players. Lone, one up top strikers at this level aren't capable of scoring that many goals and because most of the coaches and managers are aware of that, they don't expect them to and use them in a different way. Even our pal Highlights, who if he is to be believed is an analyst working for a pro club, has stated exactly the same as I, that the one up top role isn't about banging in 20 goals every season until you reach elite level, where it is quite literally a different game to what we see down here. Exactly. If Obika could cause problems like he did all game Saturday, AND get 20+ goals, quite simply he wouldn't be playing in league 1. The only player outside the prem I can think of was Chris Wood from last season....and now he's in the prem.
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Post by Toeby on Sept 9, 2017 18:28:49 GMT
Obika was quality today (miss aside)! He opened up so much space for the rest of the team to play in and played a big part in putting Gillingham to the sword. Hope we can keep him fit all season, I can see him being a big player for us this year.
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Post by brassmonkey on Sept 9, 2017 18:40:03 GMT
Agree. Strong performance again from obika. Holds it up, can win headers, can beat a defender and can shoot. Reminds me of lukaku. Hope he stays fit.
Sent from my SM-G930F using proboards
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Post by Yellow River on Sept 9, 2017 19:07:39 GMT
I like Obika, strong, retains the ball better than Wes and a good link- up player.
Despite a bad miss today he adds a lot to the team.
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Obika
Sept 9, 2017 20:38:23 GMT
Post by Maurice Earp on Sept 9, 2017 20:38:23 GMT
What's the news on his injury??
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 9, 2017 20:40:49 GMT
He's fine apparently just felt a tightness so went of as a precaution, ribs hurt his knee in the warm up
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Obika
Sept 9, 2017 20:41:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by littlemore on Sept 9, 2017 20:41:55 GMT
What's the news on his injury?? Pep said just a precaution as Jon felt a strain. Makes sense to say he wanted to come off considering game was won and we have a game on Tuesday.
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Post by The Fence End on Sept 10, 2017 8:28:13 GMT
It's a shame it seems he needs 5 chances to score one. Other thant that he's been impressive.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Sept 10, 2017 8:40:26 GMT
Many of us ask that question, Charles.
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Obika
Sept 11, 2017 11:01:13 GMT
Post by littlemore on Sept 11, 2017 11:01:13 GMT
Obika out for up to 10 days with hamstring strain. Big blow that but least it isn't too serious.
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Obika
Sept 11, 2017 11:19:40 GMT
Post by foley on Sept 11, 2017 11:19:40 GMT
Obika out for up to 10 days with hamstring strain. Big blow that but least it isn't too serious. Agree I is a big blow with the way that he has been playing. Thomas presumably will play tomorrow.
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Post by grumpygit on Sept 11, 2017 11:51:35 GMT
It's a shame it seems he needs 5 chances to score one. Other thant that he's been impressive. He was involved in Payne's and Halls goals. His hold up play is excellent.
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Post by tatabanya on Sept 11, 2017 17:01:05 GMT
Gutted he is out tomorrow - massive blow. Need to get Mehmeti fit as, especially with Thomas' injury record, we are short of depth with players who can play that centre forward role.
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Obika
Sept 11, 2017 18:04:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by Toeby on Sept 11, 2017 18:04:40 GMT
It's a shame it seems he needs 5 chances to score one. Other thant that he's been impressive. He was involved in Payne's and Halls goals. His hold up play is excellent. And Rothwell's - he dragged Zakuani away and made the space for Rothwell.
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