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Post by SteMerritt on Sept 1, 2017 18:25:54 GMT
"perceived involvement"?
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Post by oxvox on Sept 1, 2017 18:47:41 GMT
I've received a response from FSF 're implications arising from the Oxvox crowd safety management forum. I've forwarded the response on to Jem for consideration (& circulation) initially within Oxvox committee. I'm unable to cut and paste the email response via the device I'm currently using. Very briefly, 'We're right to be concerned regarding the legal implications, and for that matter legality of the 'announced ox tales rogues gallery database potential for use by stewards at oufc home games. PC956 may be able to provide some information regarding databases of risk supporters, as there is a policing document on the subject Evening Sarge. Apologies for the tardiness. I've been off today. Except for a trip to the plastic club tomorrow I'm not back in until Tuesday and I know you'll want a comprehensive answer. Before the minutes went out I did type an input that may clear any muddy waters in relation to TVP and this issue. Actually twice I emailed and haven't had any response to date from OxVox. We have an information sharing agreement with the club which they and ourselves sign yearly. This can include images of persons banned at court. We as a force are regulated on the retention and usefulness of images taken. I've asked our legal department for a more in depth answer. Once I have you'll have it. I've looked at the images on the app and I appreciate why some people may not like it. However, the people on there are there for a reason, either due to their ban,behaviour at a recent fixture or perceived involvement in an inciden at the club. It's not just for the sake of it I can assure you. As soon as I hear from legal I'll get back to you. We are pulling together all the info on what is clearly a highly immotive subject. We have been taking advice from supporters direct as well as enlisting expert legal advice. Once we have a full appreciation of the facts, we'll take an independent and considered view. We'll then speak with the club, fans and TVP. This should be possible within the next 2 weeks. Regards Jem
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Post by pc956 on Sept 1, 2017 18:49:28 GMT
Are they involved or not? Did they have to do what they did or forced to do so? Like the Man City fans who came onto the pitch last week. Did they come on because of a surge behind type thing? Just because someone does something doesn't mean they intended to do so. Identify them and ask the question.
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Post by SteMerritt on Sept 1, 2017 19:09:19 GMT
Are they involved or not? Did they have to do what they did or forced to do so? Like the Man City fans who came onto the pitch last week. Did they come on because of a surge behind type thing? Just because someone does something doesn't mean they intended to do so. Identify them and ask the question. Thank you. Under whose perception? Is there an appeal procedure should an appeal be required?
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Post by pc956 on Sept 1, 2017 19:32:56 GMT
Are they involved or not? Did they have to do what they did or forced to do so? Like the Man City fans who came onto the pitch last week. Did they come on because of a surge behind type thing? Just because someone does something doesn't mean they intended to do so. Identify them and ask the question. Thank you. Under whose perception? Is there an appeal procedure should an appeal be required? This is the clubs app. There's always 2 sides. I'm sure the safety team would like to hear both sides if someone was needed to be identified/spoken to.
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Post by rickyotto on Sept 1, 2017 19:43:48 GMT
I've received a response from FSF 're implications arising from the Oxvox crowd safety management forum. I've forwarded the response on to Jem for consideration (& circulation) initially within Oxvox committee. I'm unable to cut and paste the email response via the device I'm currently using. Very briefly, 'We're right to be concerned regarding the legal implications, and for that matter legality of the 'announced ox tales rogues gallery database potential for use by stewards at oufc home games. PC956 may be able to provide some information regarding databases of risk supporters, as there is a policing document on the subject Evening Sarge. Apologies for the tardiness. I've been off today. Except for a trip to the plastic club tomorrow I'm not back in until Tuesday and I know you'll want a comprehensive answer. Before the minutes went out I did type an input that may clear any muddy waters in relation to TVP and this issue. Actually twice I emailed and haven't had any response to date from OxVox. We have an information sharing agreement with the club which they and ourselves sign yearly. This can include images of persons banned at court. We as a force are regulated on the retention and usefulness of images taken. I've asked our legal department for a more in depth answer. Once I have you'll have it. I've looked at the images on the app and I appreciate why some people may not like it. However, the people on there are there for a reason, either due to their ban,behaviour at a recent fixture or perceived involvement in an inciden at the club. It's not just for the sake of it I can assure you. As soon as I hear from legal I'll get back to you. If I may take a cynical stance. TVP are not permitted as a public policing body to hold images of fans who are either cleared of a crime or have no history at all but are perceived to be a risk So they pass the images over to a private organization in OUFC to bypass this ruling and allow stewards to perceive people as "potentially criminal" on behalf of TVP regardless of actual criminal record. OUFC then pass the data on to another third party?
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Post by Paul Cannell on Sept 1, 2017 19:47:22 GMT
Thank you. Under whose perception? Is there an appeal procedure should an appeal be required? This is the clubs app. There's always 2 sides. Like when you claim this forum is calling for you to be lynched when the post is clearly calling for restraint when questioning your motives? Quite frankly, the perceptions of TVP and your good self have nothing to do with 'creating a good atmosphere' or 'good order'.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 1, 2017 19:54:46 GMT
Is it ok for fans to have an app with photos of police and stewards from around the country who we perceive to be acting inappropriately ?
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Post by Denissmithswig on Sept 1, 2017 21:03:46 GMT
TVP have had a data base of fans photos for years as far as I'm aware of trouble makers or fans that are always in and around the trouble but have never been banned/charged with anything.
I have no issue with this, nor do I have an issue with them sharing it with the club as it is the club that it affects.
What I don't understand is the need for Ian Mixter to create his own data base of fan photo's and then sharing them with stewards. Why can't he just use the TVP data base rather than creating his own. Is he adding photos of fans that he feels should be on there but TVP don't?
If that's the case then I think he could be in muddy waters.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 1, 2017 21:08:39 GMT
In 2017, a crack poster unit was sent to prison by a mixter court for a threat they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Blackbird leys underground. Today, still wanted by the stewards they survive as supporters of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The yellowsforum-Team.
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Post by makv on Sept 1, 2017 21:32:20 GMT
Is it ok for fans to have an app with photos of police and stewards from around the country who we perceive to be acting inappropriately ? I'm working on one as we speak. Suggestions for the name? I'm going for barsteward. Yeah, I know it's shit.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 2, 2017 7:36:31 GMT
Is it ok for fans to have an app with photos of police and stewards from around the country who we perceive to be acting inappropriately ? I'm working on one as we speak. Suggestions for the name? I'm going for barsteward. Yeah, I know it's shit. X (copper) files Or Farcebook Or Twater These are all meant as jokes and are in no way threatening
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Post by manorlounger on Sept 2, 2017 8:45:13 GMT
Where is Block 13 in the East Stand as the possible Ultras area? To the left of block 12 Shhhhh! You don't want everybody to know, do you?
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Post by Paul Cannell on Sept 2, 2017 9:54:50 GMT
In 2017, a crack poster unit was sent to prison by a mixter court for a threat they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Blackbird leys underground. Today, still wanted by the stewards they survive as supporters of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The yellowsforum-Team. It's a man's life. Living off berries and discarded fried-chicken wrappers, righting wrongs and wearing a knitted tank-top with the words "Poster Man" emblazoned in imperial purple on a yellow background.
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Post by robie on Sept 4, 2017 13:48:19 GMT
This is from the National Pubwatch website.
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Post by essexyellows on Sept 6, 2017 11:49:32 GMT
Neither Mr Mixter nor his company are registered with the Information Commissioners Office. If they are actively using the App then they are committing a CRIMINAL (not civil) offence. Where is a copper when you need one? pc956 looks like you need to "have a word" ...... or come up with a very good reason not to. As I`ve been on holiday I have yet to contact Mr Mixter regarding the legality of this app and his companies failure to register with the ICO........... but will have by the end of this week.
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Post by makv on Sept 6, 2017 13:51:42 GMT
Well this sure could get interesting
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Post by essexyellows on Sept 6, 2017 14:02:30 GMT
Here you go....have a template. Oxford United Football Club and/or their employed stewarding contractors.Dear Sir or Madam Subject access requestMr *******************, of the address above Please supply the information about me I am entitled to under the Data Protection Act 1998 relating to: • The mobile communication device application (“App”) known as as OxTales used by the stewarding company. • And/or any paper or electronic records relating to me, whether assessed as a “Person of interest” or not. • Any other personally identifiable information that is held by Oxford United FC and/or their employed stewarding contractors. • My personal file and/or any images of me held by Oxford United FC and/or their employed stewarding contractors. If you need any more information from me, or a fee, please let me know as soon as possible. It may be helpful for you to know that a request for information under the Data Protection Act 1998 should be responded to within 40 days. If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you and can be contacted on 0303 123 1113 or at ico.org.uk I was unable to locate the details of the Data Protection Officer for the stewarding company on the Information Commissioners Office website. Not registering and subsequently collecting, sharing and storing such data is a criminal offence and, if no response is forthcoming I will report this matter to Thames Valley Police as a contravention of the Data Protection Act 1998. Yours Sincerely **************
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Post by myles on Sept 6, 2017 19:39:09 GMT
The police have no powers to enforce the Data Protection Act. It is a matter for the Information Commissioner's Office.
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Post by essexyellows on Sept 7, 2017 7:13:08 GMT
The police have no powers to enforce the Data Protection Act. It is a matter for the Information Commissioner's Office. Hadn`t read that far ahead...cheers! Giving Mr M the benefit of the doubt and 40 days to come up with an answer I had just read that it was a criminal offence. Now I have looked at enforcement. "The Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA) is enforced by the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO), which has several options when it finds an organisation to be in breach of the act: Monetary penalty notices: Fines of up to £500,000 for serious breaches of the DPA."
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Post by rickyotto on Sept 8, 2017 0:22:52 GMT
If he's committed a criminal offense on a matchday in the vicinity of the ground I assume it's a three year banning order and handing in his passport when England play abroad?😂
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Post by chuckbert on Sept 9, 2017 11:06:55 GMT
Fond memories of oxtales
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Post by SteMerritt on Sept 9, 2017 11:43:01 GMT
Ox-Tales was a decent site, first OUFC site I can remember, and it inspired me to set up mine (the terribly named OUFC Information Centre - which was mainly a historical database, which Rage Online took over and expanded). There was also one by James Beard I believe, which was also a good read, with Rage Online being founded around the same period. Late 1990s.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 9, 2017 14:59:53 GMT
I think jt's halftime draw has just come up with the new name for the fans app, to log poor stewarding at oufc and away games.
Cocktales
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Post by Denissmithswig on Nov 28, 2017 21:55:24 GMT
Surprised no one has commented on the Ox Tales story which is on the official website.
I think OxVox have worked well to get answers from the club and I don’t see Ox Tales as an issue to fans and it is beneficial to the club as an easier way to keep an eye on problematic fans.
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Post by sarge on Nov 29, 2017 13:28:02 GMT
Surprised no one has commented on the Ox Tales story which is on the official website. I think OxVox have worked well to get answers from the club and I don’t see Ox Tales as an issue to fans and it is beneficial to the club as an easier way to keep an eye on problematic fans. I agree Oxvox have fought a decent albeit rearguard action regarding what is a coup de gras regarding the Ox Tales database. www.oufc.co.uk/news/2017/november/oxtales-explained/#.Wh6ExU4n8p8.twitterafter a quick perusal through the OUFC official announcement (link above) there are several concerns that arise intially 1 - how long does anyone unfortunate enough to find them selves on Ox Tales data base details remain on there ? As in is there a time limit or is it for life? 2- the contentious subject of OUFC issuing ABCs (acceptable behaviour contracts) to fans, some of whom have NOT been found guilty in court of any offence, is containted within criteria of having details of an individual kept on Ox Tales data base. Yet as ground regs permit any football club or sports stadia to refuse entrty to any individual, what is the need for ABCs ( without any timelimit)by OUFC??? 3- It appears that regarding Ox tales that MR Mixter has set himself up as judge, jury and executioner regarding the inclusion, or not , of any ones details being kept on his PRIVATELY run database. which doesnt seem right to me that one individual, MR Mixter in the case of Ox Tales, has unchalleged power to decide wether someone is a wrong un, based purely on his individual, subjective, opinion. ..... theres bound sure to be a few more questionable items arising from the implications of the advent of Mr Mixters Ox Tales private database which will come to light sooner or later I'd think. Finally , a tongue in cheek, y'know an attempt at humour, name for OUFCYellows suggested fans database, for iffy stewards police etc encountered both at the Breeze Block and on away days, how about "Gore The Matadors" ?
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Post by sihath on Nov 29, 2017 13:48:48 GMT
Surprised no one has commented on the Ox Tales story which is on the official website. I think OxVox have worked well to get answers from the club and I don’t see Ox Tales as an issue to fans and it is beneficial to the club as an easier way to keep an eye on problematic fans. I agree Oxvox have fought a decent albeit rearguard action regarding what is a coup de gras regarding the Ox Tales database. www.oufc.co.uk/news/2017/november/oxtales-explained/#.Wh6ExU4n8p8.twitterafter a quick perusal through the OUFC official announcement (link above) there are several concerns that arise intially 1 - how long does anyone unfortunate enough to find them selves on Ox Tales data base details remain on there ? As in is there a time limit or is it for life? 2- the contentious subject of OUFC issuing ABCs (acceptable behaviour contracts) to fans, some of whom have NOT been found guilty in court of any offence, is containted within criteria of having details of an individual kept on Ox Tales data base. Yet as ground regs permit any football club or sports stadia to refuse entrty to any individual, what is the need for ABCs ( without any timelimit)by OUFC??? 3- It appears that regarding Ox tales that MR Mixter has set himself up as judge, jury and executioner regarding the inclusion, or not , of any ones details being kept on his PRIVATELY run database. which doesnt seem right to me that one individual, MR Mixter in the case of Ox Tales, has unchalleged power to decide wether someone is a wrong un, based purely on his individual, subjective, opinion. ..... theres bound sure to be a few more questionable items arising from the implications of the advent of Mr Mixters Ox Tales private database which will come to light sooner or later I'd think. Finally , a tongue in cheek, y'know an attempt at humour, name for OUFCYellows suggested fans database, for iffy stewards police etc encountered both at the Breeze Block and on away days, how about "Gore The Matadors" ? Answers to questions 1 and 3 are at the bottom of the article.
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Post by Mark on Nov 29, 2017 13:55:59 GMT
Sarge - I think it says for Q1 that you are "live" on the database for as long as your football banning order / club banning order / ABC lasts, and then you get deleted altogether shortly after.
Isn't this just bringing the old "spotter" books into the digital age? Instead of printing out books of mugshots, it's just done using an app, meaning it's easier to keep up to date?
I tend to agree that ABCs are a strange thing. Either people behave acceptably or they don't, though they are perhaps in effect the yellow card referred to. Don't some of them contain ridciulous clauses like not being in a group of more than four people?
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Post by sarge on Nov 29, 2017 14:00:40 GMT
I agree Oxvox have fought a decent albeit rearguard action regarding what is a coup de gras regarding the Ox Tales database. www.oufc.co.uk/news/2017/november/oxtales-explained/#.Wh6ExU4n8p8.twitterafter a quick perusal through the OUFC official announcement (link above) there are several concerns that arise intially 1 - how long does anyone unfortunate enough to find them selves on Ox Tales data base details remain on there ? As in is there a time limit or is it for life? 2- the contentious subject of OUFC issuing ABCs (acceptable behaviour contracts) to fans, some of whom have NOT been found guilty in court of any offence, is containted within criteria of having details of an individual kept on Ox Tales data base. Yet as ground regs permit any football club or sports stadia to refuse entrty to any individual, what is the need for ABCs ( without any timelimit)by OUFC??? 3- It appears that regarding Ox tales that MR Mixter has set himself up as judge, jury and executioner regarding the inclusion, or not , of any ones details being kept on his PRIVATELY run database. which doesnt seem right to me that one individual, MR Mixter in the case of Ox Tales, has unchalleged power to decide wether someone is a wrong un, based purely on his individual, subjective, opinion. ..... theres bound sure to be a few more questionable items arising from the implications of the advent of Mr Mixters Ox Tales private database which will come to light sooner or later I'd think. Finally , a tongue in cheek, y'know an attempt at humour, name for OUFCYellows suggested fans database, for iffy stewards police etc encountered both at the Breeze Block and on away days, how about "Gore The Matadors" ? Answers to questions 1 and 3 are at the bottom of the article. Cheers Sihath .... though they are , to me, only partial answers to 1 & 3 , and it begs the question as to who is err, policing, wether individuals information on Ox Tales IS removed given only a very elite number of individuals ( assumedly hand picked by Mr Mixter himself? ) will, apparrently be granted access to Mr Mixter's private database, Ox Tales remember, BIG BROTHE?R is watching EVERYONE it appears
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Post by sarge on Nov 29, 2017 14:03:28 GMT
Sarge - I think it says for Q1 that you are "live" on the database for as long as your football banning order / club banning order / ABC lasts, and then you get deleted altogether shortly after. Isn't this just bringing the old "spotter" books into the digital age? Instead of printing out books of mugshots, it's just done using an app, meaning it's easier to keep up to date? I tend to agree that ABCs are a strange thing. Either people behave acceptably or they don't, though they are perhaps in effect the yellow card referred to. Don't some of them contain ridciulous clauses like not being in a group of more than four people? re Q1 .... again, WHO is err, policing Ox Tales to ensure what is claimed will actually happen? ABCs have all manner of 'ridiculous' clauses, and given that most if not all reasons for OUFC issuing an ABC are already covered by ground regs, in my opinion, ABCs should be consigned to the bin as they are unnecessary, unwarranted and unneeded !
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