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Post by gofish2 on May 21, 2017 22:06:24 GMT
At the risk of reigniting old rivalries (Little and large V the rest) what do people think about Arsenals 5th place finish, and will those baying for Wengers blood (departure) get their way. I think he should go as although his reign has been incredible, things don't look to get better if he stays and, I cant see them keeping/attracting players now that they've entered the Your-ropey league.
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Post by holdsteady on May 22, 2017 3:58:42 GMT
Apparently the contract to stay for two more years has been signed and will be announced after the FA cup final. I think it is a mistake, he has been there twenty years, everything has to come to an end sometime and this feels like the right time.
If Sanchez goes then Arsenal will finish sixth next season, whoever is manager, so the pressure on Wenger will just intensify.
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Post by Gary Baldi on May 22, 2017 7:23:40 GMT
When Wenger came to English football, he was seen as an innovator on many levels. Today, he's a footballing fossil stuck with an old view of the game and having lost 5-1 3 times in a to Bayern, a lot further away from CL glory than ever. Chelsea have taken the game on again this season and Wenger is still worrying about buying more fragile Central Midfielders and Wingers. Spurs have really kicked on with Liverpool, so suddenly the 4th CL spot is gone. 2 more years of Wenger will harm Arsenal in the long term, I believe.
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Post by Junior on May 22, 2017 7:28:44 GMT
Also worth noting that arsenal's point total this season would have seen them qualify for the CL in previous seasons.
Are they really that bad? Like always, they are, for me, 2/3 signings away from being a top team.
A midfielder in the Kante mold, a younger, more consistent version of Giroud and a decent left back and they will be up the top for me. Arsenal fans always used to be classy and old school. It seems sections of them have fallen into the press's perception of Wenger and are just sounding of because they've be given a platform to do so. Arsenal Tv is a cringe fest as a classic example.
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Post by Gary Baldi on May 22, 2017 7:40:45 GMT
Losing 5-1 3 times in a row to Bayern tells me they are a long way away. I think they need 2 CBs, 1 LB, 1 RB and 2 S to be competitive. Plus motivating Ozil and keeping Sanchez, who seems to be the only one to give a toss about their season.
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Post by Boogaloo on May 22, 2017 7:52:20 GMT
Whilst I think Wenger has has taken Arsenal as far as they can go, I do feel he is being made the scapegoat in all of this. For years, the owner Stan Kroenke has fleeced Arsenal fans some of the highest ticket prices in the EPL, yet when it comes to putting his hand in his pocket and buying the players capable of winning the title, he instead opts to buy players like Mustafi, Xhaka and Perez. Every year we hear all the stories about all the big names Arsenal are going to buy (Higuain, Benzema, Eden Hazard, Cavani, Khedira, Draxler, Luis Suarez etc), but it never happens. Now they're being linked with Monaco's 18 year-old wonderkid Kylian Mbappé - I expect it will be the same old story - Arsenal will only pay up to £100K a week because it wil break their 'pay structure', Man City/Man U/Chelsea will stump up the £130K because they will do whatever it takes to seal the deal. The only two marquee players they have recently bought are Ozil and Sanchez.
I read that Alisher Usmanov put in a £1billion takeover bid to buy Arsenal on Friday. If Arsenal are serious about competing for the silverware, then it this really does need to go through.
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Post by Junior on May 22, 2017 7:56:56 GMT
Haven't they already gone above their wage structure with the deals for Sanchez, Ozil and cech? They will be comfortably on more than 100k.
Xhaka is a clown, not suited to English football. A poor buy. Mustafi is decent and should be Koschinly (sp) long term partner. Bellarin is the best RB in the Prem. LB is very weak and you need an enforcer and a proper striker who'll do the ugly stuff as well as score frequently.
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Post by Mark on May 22, 2017 8:01:10 GMT
After many years of playing on a reduced squad budget to pay for the Emirates stadium, the fans who pay top dollar for season tickets deserve better.
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Post by saddletramp on May 22, 2017 8:22:53 GMT
Whilst I think Wenger has has taken Arsenal as far as they can go, I do feel he is being made the scapegoat in all of this. For years, the owner Stan Kroenke has fleeced Arsenal fans some of the highest ticket prices in the EPL, yet when it comes to putting his hand in his pocket and buying the players capable of winning the title, he instead opts to buy players like Mustafi, Xhaka and Perez. Every year we hear all the stories about all the big names Arsenal are going to buy (Higuain, Benzema, Eden Hazard, Cavani, Khedira, Draxler, Luis Suarez etc), but it never happens. Now they're being linked with Monaco's 18 year-old wonderkid Kylian Mbappé - I expect it will be the same old story - Arsenal will only pay up to £100K a week because it wil break their 'pay structure', Man City/Man U/Chelsea will stump up the £130K because they will do whatever it takes to seal the deal. The only two marquee players they have recently bought are Ozil and Sanchez. I read that Alisher Usmanov put in a £1billion takeover bid to buy Arsenal on Friday. If Arsenal are serious about competing for the silverware, then it this really does need to go through. You mention Mustafi and Xhaka,they cost £35 and £34 Million respectively,so to say he doesn't put his hand in his pocket in bull. "Now they're being linked with Monaco's 18 year-old wonderkid Kylian Mbappé" By who ? All i've seen about Mbappe is that he's off to Real Madrid for £103 Million. www.espnfc.com/blog/transfer-talk/79/post/3130223/transfer-talk-monaco-reject-record-mbappe-offer-from-real-manchester-clubs-eye-neymarAs for Usmanov,why would Kronke sell ? He makes tens of millions every year and Arsenals value wont go down even without Champions league football. My mate has been a S/T holder at Arsenal for 30 years,he said that Wenger should go 5 years ago,he's not one to protest,he said that it had just gone stale.
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Post by horseman on May 22, 2017 8:49:44 GMT
i'll keep saying this..there can only be 1 winner and based on this there have been many failures at spurs,city liverpool manure and arsenal yet it is only Wenger that gets the flack..it is only money that has owners etc content with top 4 but they cannot all be top.
Pep Guardiola was supposed to be the best around yet city have finished 3rd yet with the resources at their disposal they have finished miles behind a chelsea team that were average at best last season.what is it 1 million spent per point gained wow some success that then.
when the bar for success is only to be top 4 Arsenal finished 2nd last season and only missed out by 1 point for the first time in 20 years hardly a recipe for all the crap being thrown at the manager.
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Post by oufcgav on May 22, 2017 9:34:20 GMT
Kroenke is known in the States for running teams that are financially lucrative but aiming for the bare minimum from a sporting point of view. He moved the Rams out of LA and is now moving them back - fans protested, he is being removed from the Missouri Sports Hall of Fame, and is being sued by the city of St Louis for breach of contract.
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Post by Boogaloo on May 22, 2017 10:02:38 GMT
Whilst I think Wenger has has taken Arsenal as far as they can go, I do feel he is being made the scapegoat in all of this. For years, the owner Stan Kroenke has fleeced Arsenal fans some of the highest ticket prices in the EPL, yet when it comes to putting his hand in his pocket and buying the players capable of winning the title, he instead opts to buy players like Mustafi, Xhaka and Perez. Every year we hear all the stories about all the big names Arsenal are going to buy (Higuain, Benzema, Eden Hazard, Cavani, Khedira, Draxler, Luis Suarez etc), but it never happens. Now they're being linked with Monaco's 18 year-old wonderkid Kylian Mbappé - I expect it will be the same old story - Arsenal will only pay up to £100K a week because it wil break their 'pay structure', Man City/Man U/Chelsea will stump up the £130K because they will do whatever it takes to seal the deal. The only two marquee players they have recently bought are Ozil and Sanchez. I read that Alisher Usmanov put in a £1billion takeover bid to buy Arsenal on Friday. If Arsenal are serious about competing for the silverware, then it this really does need to go through. You mention Mustafi and Xhaka,they cost £35 and £34 Million respectively,so to say he doesn't put his hand in his pocket in bull. "Now they're being linked with Monaco's 18 year-old wonderkid Kylian Mbappé" By who ? All i've seen about Mbappe is that he's off to Real Madrid for £103 Million. www.espnfc.com/blog/transfer-talk/79/post/3130223/transfer-talk-monaco-reject-record-mbappe-offer-from-real-manchester-clubs-eye-neymarAs for Usmanov,why would Kronke sell ? He makes tens of millions every year and Arsenals value wont go down even without Champions league football. My mate has been a S/T holder at Arsenal for 30 years,he said that Wenger should go 5 years ago,he's not one to protest,he said that it had just gone stale. £34 and £35M might sound a lot of money, but put in context with what other clubs are spending. Top 20 English transfer fees (source - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_association_football_transfers)1. Paul Pogba ( Manchester United) - £89.3M (2016) 2. Kevin De Bruyne ( Manchester City) - £55M (2015) 3. Ángel Di María ( Manchester United) - £59.7M (2014) 4. Raheem Sterling ( Manchester City) - £44M (2015) 5. Fernando Torres ( Chelsea) - £50M (2011) 6. John Stones ( Manchester City) - £47.5M (2016) 7. Anthony Martial ( Manchester United) - £36M (2015) 8. Mesut Özil ( Arsenal) - £42.5M (2013) 9. Rio Ferdinand ( Manchester United) - £30M (2002) 10. Christian Benteke ( Liverpool) - £32.5M (2015) 11. Juan Mata ( Manchester United) - £37.1M (2014) 12. Sergio Agüero ( Manchester City) - £38M (2011) 13. Juan Sebastián Verón ( Manchester United) - £28.1M (2001) 14. Leroy Sané ( Manchester City) - £37M (2016) 15. Andriy Shevchenko ( Chelsea) - £30.8M (2006) 16. Andy Carroll ( Liverpool) - £35M (2011) 17. Shkodran Mustafi ( Arsenal) - £35M (2016) 18. Robinho ( Manchester City) - £32.5M (2008) 19. Sadio Mané ( Liverpool) - £34M (2016) 20. Granit Xhaka ( Arsenal) - £30–35M (2016) According to Wiki - Sanchez cost £31.7 million, so doesn't make the list. Only 3 players in the top 20, 1 in the top 15.
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Post by horseman on May 22, 2017 10:31:41 GMT
For as long as there is more than 1 place for cl qualification nothing will change with many owners..the real issue is it no longer seems to be about actual winning it.The game at the top is aswash with money and that dictates, just make top 4 as that keeps the millions rolling in.
Even at our level success is often accepted as reaching the play offs, it seems to matter not that your some 30 pts from actual winning the league. All the play offs do is keep the season alive which often masks the true picture.
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Post by mooro on May 22, 2017 12:13:17 GMT
My view is that Arsenal have seen what happened after Fergie left Man UTd, and that dip scared them - and now they are just putting off the inevitable year on year. As a club they need to go through that to come out the other side and progress, but instead they have just held station each year. That was fine while 4th place and CL football were achieved, but now that that is no longer guaranteed, then they really need to get on with it, otherwise the malaise under Wenger will worsen, and the dip once he leaves might just be deeper and longer than it could have been had he gone earlier.
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Post by tonyw on May 22, 2017 16:59:49 GMT
Wenger should have gone 2-3 years ago. It's long overdue. He's completely failed to fill the striker position with someone truly CL class since Henry, and the holding midfield position since Vieira. Meanwhile, the defense is no better than solid. But hey, at least the attacking midfielders have always been world class. The best defensive midfielder in the Premier League was sitting there this summer to be had for ~30 million, who could've taken Arsenal on another level. But he instead signed the pedestrian Xhaka, while Kante has won a second straight title. And the wage bill argument has gone now too, as they've spent ~200 mill this year, whilst Liverpool have finished above them on 165m, and Spurs have finished 11 points ahead of them for about 120m. (for the record, Chelsea and the two Manchester clubs spent in the range 218-225m, so Arsenal are much closer to them in their spending than they are to two of the clubs that finished above them) Arsenal are absolutely miles away from major titles at the moment, and their trajectory is in the wrong direction. They need to do something serious to change it now. Else Spurs, with their exciting young team and soon-to-be swanky new stadium is going to swoop in and take the London corporate market away from them......
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Post by Young Money on May 22, 2017 19:13:41 GMT
"Liverpool have kicked on" what by finishing a whole ONE point ahead of Arsenal? Even City with all their money AND the magic Guardiola only finished 3 points, one win, ahead of Arsenal!
I personally think Wenger has done enough to deserve to leave whenever he likes. There's no loyalty in life, or football any more. Also it's not like they've been relegated, they finished 1 point away from CL fotball and are in the final of the FA Cup. As Junior said they're only about 2-3 top class players away from being a great team, if Wenger was given a budget of 250-300m and told to go and get some of the likes of Isco/Morata/James Rodriguez/Mbape etc then I think they'd challenge for the title next season.
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Post by holdsteady on May 22, 2017 19:30:46 GMT
"Liverpool have kicked on" what by finishing a whole ONE point ahead of Arsenal? Even City with all their money AND the magic Guardiola only finished 3 points, one win, ahead of Arsenal! I personally think Wenger has done enough to deserve to leave whenever he likes. There's no loyalty in life, or football any more. Also it's not like they've been relegated, they finished 1 point away from CL fotball and are in the final of the FA Cup. As Junior said they're only about 2-3 top class players away from being a great team, if Wenger was given a budget of 250-300m and told to go and get some of the likes of Isco/Morata/James Rodriguez/Mbape etc then I think they'd challenge for the title next season. He has had 13 seasons without winning the title, all while earning a huge amount of money, his contract has run down so I don't think that's a lack of loyalty from Arsenal. No one in an extremely well paid, highly sought after occupation should be staying because of what they did a decade ago. They are more than two players from winning the league, especially with Sanchez either going or taking up a huge chunk of their wage budget.
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Post by Junior on May 22, 2017 19:42:01 GMT
So you don't think if they had Kante and Kane in the team for Xhaka and Giroud they wouldn't be very close if not winning the league?
If they nailed the *spine of that team with the right players, they'd be very close IMO ..
For the record,
*CB DCM ST
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Post by oufcyellows on May 22, 2017 19:48:33 GMT
For once I agree with junior They have lacked the dcm since veira left, Kante would have been perfect. Cb again lack a strong leader in there And striker, I actually think giroud does ok, but replace him with a striker who gets the amount of goals lukaku or Kane do and arsenal win the league no problem
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Post by holdsteady on May 22, 2017 20:06:29 GMT
Well spurs had Kane and they didn't win the league, and he had a better team round him at white Hart lane than he would of had at the Emirates. They need more than one centre midfielder, a left back, a centre forward and another attacker, plus a centre back. Probably 5 players short of Chelsea.
You won't win the league without a couple of ball winners in the middle, that's why Kante has been so effective, they had two opportunities to buy him but didn't so I am not certain how using his name is much of a defence of Wenger, who is becoming the premier leagues Lord Wilder (obviously not as good as winning titles) with his talk of who he could of bought.
They have needed a strong ball winner for years, and they never get one, how is that good management? They have needed to improve the spine for years but they haven't. They needed to shore up the defence for years but they didn't.
Never quite got how Wenger went from being a manager who had Viera, Petit, Gilberto to where he is now. He went from Adams, Keown, Campbell to defenders like Gabriel who looks scared of being hit by the ball.
He changed into wanting to build a Barcelonaesque side but without Messi, Xavi and Iniesta that's just wishful thinking (although bizarrely he passed up on Fabregas).
Talk of needing one or two more players always reminds me of Liverpool, how many times over the years have they signed the missing piece of the puzzle only to find out they only had half the box and fail in the league.
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Post by saddletramp on May 22, 2017 21:54:23 GMT
You mention Mustafi and Xhaka,they cost £35 and £34 Million respectively,so to say he doesn't put his hand in his pocket in bull. "Now they're being linked with Monaco's 18 year-old wonderkid Kylian Mbappé" By who ? All i've seen about Mbappe is that he's off to Real Madrid for £103 Million. www.espnfc.com/blog/transfer-talk/79/post/3130223/transfer-talk-monaco-reject-record-mbappe-offer-from-real-manchester-clubs-eye-neymarAs for Usmanov,why would Kronke sell ? He makes tens of millions every year and Arsenals value wont go down even without Champions league football. My mate has been a S/T holder at Arsenal for 30 years,he said that Wenger should go 5 years ago,he's not one to protest,he said that it had just gone stale. £34 and £35M might sound a lot of money, but put in context with what other clubs are spending. Top 20 English transfer fees (source - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_association_football_transfers)1. Paul Pogba ( Manchester United) - £89.3M (2016) 2. Kevin De Bruyne ( Manchester City) - £55M (2015) 3. Ángel Di María ( Manchester United) - £59.7M (2014) 4. Raheem Sterling ( Manchester City) - £44M (2015) 5. Fernando Torres ( Chelsea) - £50M (2011) 6. John Stones ( Manchester City) - £47.5M (2016) 7. Anthony Martial ( Manchester United) - £36M (2015) 8. Mesut Özil ( Arsenal) - £42.5M (2013) 9. Rio Ferdinand ( Manchester United) - £30M (2002) 10. Christian Benteke ( Liverpool) - £32.5M (2015) 11. Juan Mata ( Manchester United) - £37.1M (2014) 12. Sergio Agüero ( Manchester City) - £38M (2011) 13. Juan Sebastián Verón ( Manchester United) - £28.1M (2001) 14. Leroy Sané ( Manchester City) - £37M (2016) 15. Andriy Shevchenko ( Chelsea) - £30.8M (2006) 16. Andy Carroll ( Liverpool) - £35M (2011) 17. Shkodran Mustafi ( Arsenal) - £35M (2016) 18. Robinho ( Manchester City) - £32.5M (2008) 19. Sadio Mané ( Liverpool) - £34M (2016) 20. Granit Xhaka ( Arsenal) - £30–35M (2016) According to Wiki - Sanchez cost £31.7 million, so doesn't make the list. Only 3 players in the top 20, 1 in the top 15. I didn't say they were outspending Man City,Chelsea and Man United,i was replying to your statement on Kronke not spending money. When you look at the figures they are the fourth highest spenders. No players on that list from runners up Spurs,no players on that list from last years Champions Leicester. People moan on this forum about the amount money spent on PL players,on their wages and on agents fees. Yet when a team doesn't perform to expectations,people head for their keyboards and moan its because they haven't spent ENOUGH !!!
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Post by saddletramp on May 22, 2017 22:13:59 GMT
"Liverpool have kicked on" what by finishing a whole ONE point ahead of Arsenal? Even City with all their money AND the magic Guardiola only finished 3 points, one win, ahead of Arsenal! I personally think Wenger has done enough to deserve to leave whenever he likes. There's no loyalty in life, or football any more. Also it's not like they've been relegated, they finished 1 point away from CL fotball and are in the final of the FA Cup. As Junior said they're only about 2-3 top class players away from being a great team, if Wenger was given a budget of 250-300m and told to go and get some of the likes of Isco/Morata/James Rodriguez/Mbape etc then I think they'd challenge for the title next season. "Liverpool have kicked on" what by finishing a whole ONE point ahead of Arsenal?" Of course they have,they finished 8th last season with 60 points,how would you describe a season where you finished up 4 places and 16 points higher ? The same progress next season would see them on 92 points. Man City also finished 2 places and 5 points behind Arsenal last season. Liverpool didn't lose a PL game against any team in the top 8 last season,Arsenal won 1 against a top 6 team (Chelsea back in September) Liverpool also beat Arsenal home and away. As for "if Wenger was given a budget of 250-300m and told to go and get some of the likes of Isco/Morata/James Rodriguez/Mbape etc then I think they'd challenge for the title next season" I'd hope any top ten manager given £300 million would "challenge for the title next year"
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Post by Boogaloo on May 23, 2017 8:10:13 GMT
£34 and £35M might sound a lot of money, but put in context with what other clubs are spending. Top 20 English transfer fees (source - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_association_football_transfers)1. Paul Pogba ( Manchester United) - £89.3M (2016) 2. Kevin De Bruyne ( Manchester City) - £55M (2015) 3. Ángel Di María ( Manchester United) - £59.7M (2014) 4. Raheem Sterling ( Manchester City) - £44M (2015) 5. Fernando Torres ( Chelsea) - £50M (2011) 6. John Stones ( Manchester City) - £47.5M (2016) 7. Anthony Martial ( Manchester United) - £36M (2015) 8. Mesut Özil ( Arsenal) - £42.5M (2013) 9. Rio Ferdinand ( Manchester United) - £30M (2002) 10. Christian Benteke ( Liverpool) - £32.5M (2015) 11. Juan Mata ( Manchester United) - £37.1M (2014) 12. Sergio Agüero ( Manchester City) - £38M (2011) 13. Juan Sebastián Verón ( Manchester United) - £28.1M (2001) 14. Leroy Sané ( Manchester City) - £37M (2016) 15. Andriy Shevchenko ( Chelsea) - £30.8M (2006) 16. Andy Carroll ( Liverpool) - £35M (2011) 17. Shkodran Mustafi ( Arsenal) - £35M (2016) 18. Robinho ( Manchester City) - £32.5M (2008) 19. Sadio Mané ( Liverpool) - £34M (2016) 20. Granit Xhaka ( Arsenal) - £30–35M (2016) According to Wiki - Sanchez cost £31.7 million, so doesn't make the list. Only 3 players in the top 20, 1 in the top 15. I didn't say they were outspending Man City,Chelsea and Man United,i was replying to your statement on Kronke not spending money. When you look at the figures they are the fourth highest spenders. No players on that list from runners up Spurs,no players on that list from last years Champions Leicester. People moan on this forum about the amount money spent on PL players,on their wages and on agents fees. Yet when a team doesn't perform to expectations,people head for their keyboards and moan its because they haven't spent ENOUGH !!! As I said in my original thread, Wenger is also to blame for this as well. The two signings you mentioned - Mustafi and Xhaka, have certainly not lived up to the money that was spent on them. Maybe as they're still young, they might improve and go on to justify those fees, but in the late 90s/early 00s, Wenger made a career out of bringing in promising youngsters and cast-offs and turning them into superstars. Those days appear to have gone. I'm just saying that Kroenke has to accept some of the blame too. When you hear transfer rumours involving other clubs (e.g. De Bruyne to Man City, Pogba to Man Utd, Hazard to Chelsea), they generally do tend to materialise, whereas with Arsenal they always peter out with money being the usual stumbling block
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Post by saddletramp on May 23, 2017 8:29:35 GMT
I didn't say they were outspending Man City,Chelsea and Man United,i was replying to your statement on Kronke not spending money. When you look at the figures they are the fourth highest spenders. No players on that list from runners up Spurs,no players on that list from last years Champions Leicester. People moan on this forum about the amount money spent on PL players,on their wages and on agents fees. Yet when a team doesn't perform to expectations,people head for their keyboards and moan its because they haven't spent ENOUGH !!! As I said in my original thread, Wenger is also to blame for this as well. The two signings you mentioned - Mustafi and Xhaka, have certainly not lived up to the money that was spent on them. Maybe as they're still young, they might improve and go on to justify those fees, but in the late 90s/early 00s, Wenger made a career out of bringing in promising youngsters and cast-offs and turning them into superstars. Those days appear to have gone. I'm just saying that Kroenke has to accept some of the blame too. When you hear transfer rumours involving other clubs (e.g. De Bruyne to Man City, Pogba to Man Utd, Hazard to Chelsea), they generally do tend to materialise, whereas with Arsenal they always peter out with money being the usual stumbling block I'm not an Arsenal fan,i'm not an Arsenal hater,but i grew up in the 60s when Arsenal were a mid table run of the mill team,they won the Double in 71 but never kicked on and returned to mid table mediocrity for the next 15 years. So this period in Arsenals history is nothing new,but the newer fans demand success. How about this for a view. Arsene Wenger was a lucky manager. Why ? He was an unknown French manager when he took over at Arsenal,he had great contacts in and around France. His early tenure at Arsenal coincided with France being the best football nation in the world. So he was able to sign Vierra,Petit,Henry,Wiltord,Pires,Anelka etc etc. Arsenal lack of success and struggle against the top teams in recent years,virtually mirrors Frances recent fortunes.
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Post by Boogaloo on May 23, 2017 9:08:03 GMT
As I said in my original thread, Wenger is also to blame for this as well. The two signings you mentioned - Mustafi and Xhaka, have certainly not lived up to the money that was spent on them. Maybe as they're still young, they might improve and go on to justify those fees, but in the late 90s/early 00s, Wenger made a career out of bringing in promising youngsters and cast-offs and turning them into superstars. Those days appear to have gone. I'm just saying that Kroenke has to accept some of the blame too. When you hear transfer rumours involving other clubs (e.g. De Bruyne to Man City, Pogba to Man Utd, Hazard to Chelsea), they generally do tend to materialise, whereas with Arsenal they always peter out with money being the usual stumbling block I'm not an Arsenal fan,i'm not an Arsenal hater,but i grew up in the 60s when Arsenal were a mid table run of the mill team,they won the Double in 71 but never kicked on and returned to mid table mediocrity for the next 15 years. So this period in Arsenals history is nothing new,but the newer fans demand success. How about this for a view. Arsene Wenger was a lucky manager. Why ? He was an unknown French manager when he took over at Arsenal,he had great contacts in and around France. His early tenure at Arsenal coincided with France being the best football nation in the world. So he was able to sign Vierra,Petit,Henry,Wiltord,Pires,Anelka etc etc. Arsenal lack of success and struggle against the top teams in recent years,virtually mirrors Frances recent fortunes. Lucky? Are you for real? A lot of the players he purchased were nothing special. One of the French castoffs was a 21 year-old winger, who although he had pace, just simply didn't cut the mustard at Juventus. Wenger decided to sign him, move him up-front, and he then went on to become an Arsenal legend. In case you haven't guessed, I am of course referring to Thierry Henry. Plus it wasn't all French players - Marc Overmars, Freddy Ljungberg, Sol Campbell, Jens Lehmann, Kolo Toure, Silvinho, Ashley Cole, Gilberto Silva, Robin van Persie are all non-French players who became stars under Wenger.
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Post by barmyarmy on May 23, 2017 11:16:05 GMT
I think Wengers time has been and gone but if I was an Arsenal fan I would be more concerned about the owner and his motives. In America he owns an MLS side who are bottom of the league, an NFL team who are bottom of the league, a basketball side and an ice hockey side who are shit. Im sure he is being paid handsomely by all and I suspect he cares little about where Arsenal finish or what they do/dont win and only how much he is being paid.
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Post by horseman on May 23, 2017 12:13:56 GMT
some need to realise that the fans don't matter to certain owners,it does not matter whether you win the league the remit is finish top 4 because that keeps the millions rolling in.
Spurs didn't win the league dropped out of cl/europa league with a whimper
City with the best manager around and millions at their disposal didn't win the league and failed in the cl, you could argue due to not addressing their defensive frailities + his philosophy and unwillingness to change/adapt the same things being thrown at Wenger.
Manure where to start...gone from an exciting attacking force to watch to dull as dishwater and seen their manager take a massive gamble by virtual giving up on the league placings to gain cl place from a competition he moans about every thursday/sunday yet wanted the league to change the day of their final league game to help him.
Liverpool..gained 1 pt more than Arsenal but their fans are not going bonkers or slagging the emanager for not winning the league why? because they've got cl football next season (albeit not guaranteed beyond 2 games)
Which of the above should have made a better challenge?
I suspect very few of spurs, city, Liverpool fans are that bothered they didn't win the league.
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Post by saddletramp on May 24, 2017 7:44:14 GMT
I'm not an Arsenal fan,i'm not an Arsenal hater,but i grew up in the 60s when Arsenal were a mid table run of the mill team,they won the Double in 71 but never kicked on and returned to mid table mediocrity for the next 15 years. So this period in Arsenals history is nothing new,but the newer fans demand success. How about this for a view. Arsene Wenger was a lucky manager. Why ? He was an unknown French manager when he took over at Arsenal,he had great contacts in and around France. His early tenure at Arsenal coincided with France being the best football nation in the world. So he was able to sign Vierra,Petit,Henry,Wiltord,Pires,Anelka etc etc. Arsenal lack of success and struggle against the top teams in recent years,virtually mirrors Frances recent fortunes. Lucky? Are you for real? A lot of the players he purchased were nothing special. One of the French castoffs was a 21 year-old winger, who although he had pace, just simply didn't cut the mustard at Juventus. Wenger decided to sign him, move him up-front, and he then went on to become an Arsenal legend. In case you haven't guessed, I am of course referring to Thierry Henry. Plus it wasn't all French players - Marc Overmars, Freddy Ljungberg, Sol Campbell, Jens Lehmann, Kolo Toure, Silvinho, Ashley Cole, Gilberto Silva, Robin van Persie are all non-French players who became stars under Wenger. I was on about his early days,who came after is irrelevant,if Arsenal hadn't had the "French Connection" in the late 90s and been winning PL titles whose to say those players would have signed for Arsenal ? SAF was a lucky manager,he had 6 years at the self styled "biggest club in the world" without winning a title,wouldn't happen today. One of the French castoffs was a 21 year-old winger, who although he had pace, just simply didn't cut the mustard at Juventus. "Castoff", WTF This myth peddled by Arsenal fans that Henry was some unknown French lad in who Wenger saw something that nobody else did,is just that,a myth. Monaco reached the Champions league semi finals in 1997,Thierry Henry scored 7 goals in the competition. France won the 1998 World Cup,their leading scorer was Thierry Henry. "Wenger decided to sign him, move him up-front" Henry played for Wenger at Monaco,where he played him,yep as a winger. Tigana took over from Wenger at Monaco and moved him up front,(so another Arsenal myth bites the dust) Henry didn't cut it in Italy,a lot of Players dont(Bergkamp),but it doesn't alter the fact that Juve paid £10.5 mill for him not to bad for a World cup winner. Wenger paid £11 Million for him,a World cup winner,a lot of money for a "cast off" (in 1989). Yet in Boogaloos eyes thats just what he was. P.S. RVP won a Eufa cup at Feyenoord,he won and FA cup at Arsenal,he won a PL at Man United,yet it wasn't the Dutch that made him a star,it wasn't SAF,it was Wenger ?? P.P.S. One of the players you mention,Sol Campbell,it is well documented that he moved across North London because "Arsenal were winning things,Spurs weren't" which backs up my statement.
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