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Post by saddletramp on May 31, 2011 9:39:23 GMT
Just been looking at some mangerial records. Ian Atkins and Chris Wilder have managed Oxford for about the same amount of games. All of Atkins games were in League 2,while Wilders are a combination of league and non-league. Atkins for some reason is vilified by our support,for his style of play to his over defensive tactics. Wilder is obviously the messiah! There league records;
Played won lost drawn for against points 110 ... 43 .. 34 . . 33 . 141.. 117 .. 162 116 ... 60 .. 28 . . 28 . 170.. 111 .. 208
So taking into account Atkins managed Oxford to victories over Hull,Swansea and Swindon amongst others. And Wilders record includes defeats by Eastbourne,Tamworth and home and away to Hayes & Yeading. Are we as a fan base over critical of Atkins and OTT on Wilder?
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Post by junior1 on May 31, 2011 9:44:17 GMT
Where Atkins lost alot of fans was the style he played. Very direct and very unpleasant on the eye to some.
I couldn't care less about style, it's the end result I'm interested in...
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Post by Si Bradbury on May 31, 2011 9:55:11 GMT
You have quoted league games only. You have excluded the cup competitions from your figures, so shall we remove the Swindon victory as this would impact on some viewpoints?
Wilder has won over 50% of league games. Atkins didn't.
Atkins played some woeful football and Oxford United fans like to see decent football, attacking football. They generally always have. Wilder does that, Atkins rarely did.
Atkins total games were:
P121 W48 D33 L40 F148 A130
Wilder's reads:
P129 W66 D29 L34 F188 A125
We have conceded less, scored far more, and seen far more wins.
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Post by ryaniobirdio on May 31, 2011 10:40:01 GMT
It may have been ugly but the Atkins hoofball worked pretty well. We certainly stood a chance of going into League One with it, and I'd rather that had happened than what followed.
Was watching the final few months of the Smith era or the final stretch of games under Patterson - which when combined featured defeats to the likes of Droylsden, Lewes, Tonbridge Angels, Histon and many more - really more entertaining that watching long ball wins over Hull and Swansea?
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Post by Si Bradbury on May 31, 2011 11:07:11 GMT
We are comparing Wilder with Atkins but if you want to compare Patto with Atkins, then Atkins would win hands down (even though Patto stats were truly awful).
It was ugly but I recall the up in arms reaction (and I include myself in that) when Midson went and took the ball in the corner flag when we played Ebbsfleet at home and the reaction of the majority in the crowd to that type of tactic.
No one can argue that Oxford fans pride themselves of good, positive and attacking football. Atkins got derided because whilst he may have won games, they were not won in the manner associated with Oxford United. Whether that is right or wrong is a different debate.
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Post by blox21 on May 31, 2011 11:08:00 GMT
I was not a fan of Atkins style but there was no doughting he would of got us promoted that year!
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Post by unification on May 31, 2011 11:50:31 GMT
I was not a fan of Atkins style but there was no doughting he would of got us promoted that year! I think there was plenty of doubt. His last game, as I recall it, was a win against Cheltenham with a dodgy penalty. We hadn't won for some time and it was a welcome victory to keep us hanging onto third. I think we would have made the playoffs that season, but lost in them. Kassam then threw Paedo Rix into the fray and ripped apart a side that played 5-3-2 and we promptly did the impossible and finished outside the playoffs. Worst manager we've ever had. Fans accepted Atkins brand of football when we won, but it became very easy to criticise when we lost. Given those days of beating Swindon, Swansea, Hull etc with crowds struggling to reach 6000 versus CW's current charges and crowds well over the 7000 mark and its obvious which one all of us would choose.
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Post by secondsout on May 31, 2011 16:23:28 GMT
Atkins style of play didnt turn me off him.
What turned me off him was that he had no plan b.
Often we would beat a team and then the second time we played them the best we could hope for was a draw.
He wasnt a bad manager at all but he was far too stubborn to realise when things were going wrong and to change it about.
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Post by hairy on May 31, 2011 16:30:05 GMT
Atkyns was manager under kassam as well which was generally a dark time for the club. We are one of the few clubs who managed to gain no momentum from a move to a new ground, and that is down to kassam sucking the soul out of the club. Short of winning every game comfortably the crowds would of been low whoever was in charge.
Atkyns football was hard to watch and he wasnt the easiest man to take to, but who ever was manager in those days was only a small part of the problem compared to our current landlord and former owner.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 17:12:01 GMT
Atkins was a departure from the usual way of playing I never liked hoof policy and used to get neck ache watching it Brian clough was right
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Post by scoob on May 31, 2011 21:51:53 GMT
I think it is hard to compare the record of these two due to the different levels they manage/d at but Wilder's win/loss percentage (league only) for us is still excellent and ,hopefully, next season will be even better:
Wilder - Win 52% Loss 24% Jim Smith - 50% 23% Atkins - 39% 31% Dennis Smith - 38% 41% Wilder (League 2) - 37% 37% Horton - 30% 42% Summers - 32% 43%
Wilder has achieved all of this on relatively limited resources but I am not sure how they compare to those available to Atkins under Kassam. Wilder does have a supportive Chairman though so that probably gives him a slight advantage.
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Post by Long John Silver on Jun 1, 2011 8:01:28 GMT
Wilder has also had the benefit, so far, of being the big fish in a small pond and higher budgets to work with than most other teams he has been battling against.
Hopefully, his stats will still look as good as we move up the ladder and don't have the same budget advantages.
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Post by fantasticmrox on Jun 1, 2011 8:36:33 GMT
Atkins is very unfairly maligned in my opinion.
We would all love to win games and play pretty football along with it. But give me the choice between winning ugly or losing pretty, and I'll take the first option every time.
That said - I do think Wilder is a much better manager than Atkins. Someone above hit the nail on the head by saying Atkins had no plan B. Early in the season we'd grind teams down and win 1-0, but when a team realised how to play against us, he had no way of mixing things up a bit.
For all the mistakes Wilder may have made from time to time with his 'tinkering', this willingness to change things around to suit the circumstances is a strength, in my view.
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Post by dabigfella on Jun 1, 2011 8:39:44 GMT
Reference Atkins and hoofball and Wilder's passing football. Take a look at the Conference play-off game and see how many time we hoofed the ball up front to the forwards. The main difference was that we had three forwards to hoof the ball up to instead of two.
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Post by paulayres on Jun 1, 2011 9:10:51 GMT
If my memory serves me right, was it not atkins that tood Torquay on a great run thus putting us out of the league??
Atkins was shafted by the then chairman and a few others.
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Post by Millman on Jun 1, 2011 10:17:57 GMT
That said - I do think Wilder is a much better manager than Atkins. Someone above hit the nail on the head by saying Atkins had no plan B. Early in the season we'd grind teams down and win 1-0, but when a team realised how to play against us, he had no way of mixing things up a bit.. Now this is massively interesting. Does Wilder really have a Plan B? I would suggest no more the Atkins. We play one formation and any changes are to personnel during a game. We rely on solely on having better players than the opposition, and against teams who come prepared to pack midfield we have no answer. How many games last season were we unable to break the opposition down a get the points we needed. I would say wilder has a much better plan A than Atkins but his biggest failing is just like Atkins he also has no plan B. Is Wilder's plan A good enough to take us forward we are about to find out.
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Post by Si Bradbury on Jun 1, 2011 11:50:05 GMT
Reference Atkins and hoofball and Wilder's passing football. Take a look at the Conference play-off game and see how many time we hoofed the ball up front to the forwards. The main difference was that we had three forwards to hoof the ball up to instead of two. The Rhys Day header which found Potter and then Deering? The Matt Green goal was engineered too. Wilder's teams mix it up. We have played some wonderful passing, attacking football. We also have had to go direct. Furthermore, when you play with three up top, you rarely have the chance to go out to the wings, unless you have some dynamic full backs.
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Post by Si Bradbury on Jun 1, 2011 11:53:23 GMT
Now this is massively interesting. Does Wilder really have a Plan B? Plan B doesn't have to be a formation change though. If you introduce a different type of player, or you decide to use the wings and midfield more compared to being a bit more direct. Wilder regularly took a front man off to be replaced by pace, Potter would be an example. Wilder, on a couple of occassions, went 4-4-2 and 4-2-4 from memory.
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