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Post by worleox42 on Sept 27, 2016 21:19:03 GMT
And to add the guy who scored the penalty should have been red carded for a foul on Maguire.. Ref lost the plot with that and the two footed tackle on Dunkley....
Three points lost against a team who were very poor
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Post by victor1986 on Sept 27, 2016 21:37:32 GMT
Yep Kane Hemmings scores 3. Bristol Rovers lose 2-1 Sheffield United lose 2-1 Southend United lose 2-1 There is a pattern forming. Very poor performance. Here's hoping Appleton gives them the kick up the backside they need. The table does not make for good reading.Starting with one on top, when we cannot put the ball in the net for toffee is not working, and tonight is another game when we have to increase the attacking options up top. Wouldn't it make sense to start like that? He gave them a "KICK UP THE BACKSIDE" at half time after all of them sleep walked through the first 40 minutes. I fear we have bought 2 "big heads" in Hemmings & Johnson & they need the really big kick up their arses!!
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Post by lucabrasi on Sept 27, 2016 21:45:10 GMT
I thought we played well up until their penalty area.
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Post by makv on Sept 27, 2016 21:58:16 GMT
I thought we played well up until their penalty area. Well there's a new theme for the season.
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Post by Junior on Sept 28, 2016 0:58:45 GMT
MAPP not happy about penalty award. Bit hard to get out of the way when ball blasted at you. 2nd time in 2 games. The one against Charlton wasn't exactly blasted at Edwards.... But he was pushed in the back. Resulting and his arms swinging.
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Post by Junior on Sept 28, 2016 1:00:55 GMT
And to add the guy who scored the penalty should have been red carded for a foul on Maguire.. Ref lost the plot with that and the two footed tackle on Dunkley.... Three points lost against a team who were very poor Add to that the booking for Maguire for asking for him to get the Southend players back 10 yards then totally ignoring Ferdinand's tantrum and gob towards the officials near the corner flag.
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Post by yellowfever1 on Sept 28, 2016 1:50:36 GMT
I couldn't listen to the match last night because it is on at silly o clock where I live. Here is some advice for anyone else in the same situation- Don't read the ridiculous negativity on this thread. Go to the Southend forum and you will get a better reflection of how we played.
Their player rating thread is basically full of praise for their goalkeeper and our passing and movement. The only criticism is our ability to hit high and wide from 10 yards out. lucabrasi was bang on the money by the sounds of it. A lot of other posters not so much.
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Post by woodageoufc on Sept 28, 2016 6:04:35 GMT
Are we relegated yet? Should I sell my house?? How long is this utter crisis, that is patently obvious by comments on here, to continue for?! Normally such a positive place this forum, too. I'm worried now...
APPLETON OUT.
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Post by oufcyellows on Sept 28, 2016 6:15:28 GMT
From the sounds of it. We could do with Maguire or Crowley in the middle behind Hemmings, both a bit more likely to shoot and hit the target. Either means dropping sercombe
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Post by eighteen93 on Sept 28, 2016 6:27:32 GMT
I thought we played well up until their penalty area. We were excellent and a joy to watch but decision making in and round the penalty area cost us. Southend were ran ragged - read their forum - and Maguire pulled all the strings for us (best player on the pitch - he was exceptional) OK we lost but I came away thinking that an away win is just around the corner and we are playing some entertaining football. Some of the comments on here are embarrassing (yes you great uncle kip). My only grumble - apart from the profligacy around the box - was that Southend's best moments only came about after we overplayed in the wrong areas and turned the ball over cheaply. Their first goal was an excellent strike from 20 yards.
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Post by thesecretposter on Sept 28, 2016 6:58:23 GMT
Very tough one to stomach that. Totally bossed them second half. Played through them again and again and again. Had two cleared off the line at the death. They did absolutely f*ck all. Clear peno though make no mistake. Arm raised. Don't know how to feel about it in the grand scheme of things. On the one hand we bossed it, played very well, and 9 (maybe 8) times out of 10 would have won comfortably. Will stand us in better stead going forward. That said, they were rocking, pre game and second half, and we really need to win these kind of games if we want to stay in the division, let alone gun for the playoffs. Will chalk it up to them being our bogey team and move on I personally would be happy with a mid/top half finish. I think we need to be realistic in the fact that the quality of football and the players in league 1 is/are considerably better than league 2. Figure the league out this season then push on next season. Having said that we possibly did enough to win last night but that's football. Any team on any day can beat any team if everything clicks. Southend played a certain type of game and we fell for it.
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Post by cj on Sept 28, 2016 7:27:31 GMT
Southend were kin lucky to be awarded a penalty for the supposed hand ball from what i saw on tv...
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Post by Junior on Sept 28, 2016 7:56:53 GMT
Great uncle kip in negative post shock. Must be a right cheer to be around for a pint..
Still I guess working in Luton will eventually take its toll.
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Post by bigcrompy on Sept 28, 2016 8:36:10 GMT
From the sounds of it. We could do with Maguire or Crowley in the middle behind Hemmings, both a bit more likely to shoot and hit the target. Either means dropping sercombe I think you're on the money, and we may see change/s for Bolton, if not for our journey to the Skip. Crowley probably due some pitch time, possibly Ledson - although he's captain it wouldn't surprise me to see Lundstram start from the bench at the weekend.
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Post by ttg17 on Sept 28, 2016 8:59:37 GMT
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Post by cedricterrier on Sept 28, 2016 9:15:32 GMT
Hemmings is the type who will hit a rich vein of goals soon. But his headed miss was poor. We deserved a point . But no more . Great support again . Poor ref . But we are with a large group on 12 points .we need 5 in the next 3 games to keep the status quo .
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Post by ontheup01 on Sept 28, 2016 9:35:01 GMT
We lack width going forward and the steady Eddie fullbacks are part of the problem. Very little over lapping with any pace.
Still we are doing ok and will improve as the season progresses and injured players return.
When Edwards said he did likes to chip in with a few goals, I didn't realise it was for the opposition 😂
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Sept 28, 2016 9:36:02 GMT
Can somebody please tape Phil Edwards' arms to the side of his ribs? Both this and Charlton are clear penalties - his arms are clearly out last night and on Saturday his arms were as high as they could go, because he was appealing for a free kick and not because a push made them go up. I've never had a push that has forced both of my arms to go straight up in the air, and I've probably played 1000 games of football in my life.
By all accounts the second half was as good as we've played all season, but it just didn't run for us. I absolutely hate Southend.
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Post by Maurice Earp on Sept 28, 2016 9:43:52 GMT
A mate of mine is a season ticket holder at Southend and sent me a message last night "You will get the 3 easiest points ever tomorrow night. We are rubbish". Hope he's right. My Southend mate e-mailed me "You totally outplayed us. Bit more composure in front of goal you would have won by a cricket score."
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Post by woodageoufc on Sept 28, 2016 10:06:26 GMT
Can somebody please tape Phil Edwards' arms to the side of his ribs? Both this and Charlton are clear penalties - his arms are clearly out last night and on Saturday his arms were as high as they could go, because he was appealing for a free kick and not because a push made them go up. I've never had a push that has forced both of my arms to go straight up in the air, and I've probably played 1000 games of football in my life. By all accounts the second half was as good as we've played all season, but it just didn't run for us. I absolutely hate Southend. This frustrates me. If he is not DELIBERATELY ATTEMPTING to handle the ball it is NOT a penalty. His arms may be in as much of an unnatural position as he sees fit, but a penalty should only be given if he INTENTIONALLY handles the ball. If he puts his hands up in appeal for a free-kick (and not to handle the ball) it is NOT a penalty. If he cannot move his arm away from the ball in time it is NOT a penalty (regardless of where his hands were in the first place). Please see official FA guidance: HANDLING THE BALL Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm. The following must be considered: the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand) the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball) the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringementtouching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement Read more at www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#OQVZvbjRPqWVZUV4.99I never knew re: thrown object etc. (interesting...!) but unnatural position of arm has only ever been a guideline for a referee's decision as to whether a handball was intentional or not. I don't think either handball was intentional. Of course, having your arms out gives the referee a decision to make, but to say they were both 'clear' penalties is very harsh, considering the ambiguity and judgement of intentions involved.
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Post by bigronaldo on Sept 28, 2016 10:12:40 GMT
Forgive me if i don't go look on the southend website to see how good we were last night. Sometimes, you just do not get the breaks and although we battered their goal, it was one of those nights where it just would not go in no matter what. Games at this level are won and lost on fine margins, thats the way it goes sometimes. On to Bolton we go.
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Post by ryaniobirdio on Sept 28, 2016 10:21:21 GMT
Can somebody please tape Phil Edwards' arms to the side of his ribs? Both this and Charlton are clear penalties - his arms are clearly out last night and on Saturday his arms were as high as they could go, because he was appealing for a free kick and not because a push made them go up. I've never had a push that has forced both of my arms to go straight up in the air, and I've probably played 1000 games of football in my life. By all accounts the second half was as good as we've played all season, but it just didn't run for us. I absolutely hate Southend. This frustrates me. If he is not DELIBERATELY ATTEMPTING to handle the ball it is NOT a penalty. His arms may be in as much of an unnatural position as he sees fit, but a penalty should only be given if he INTENTIONALLY handles the ball. If he puts his hands up in appeal for a free-kick (and not to handle the ball) it is NOT a penalty. If he cannot move his arm away from the ball in time it is NOT a penalty (regardless of where his hands were in the first place). Please see official FA guidance: HANDLING THE BALL Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm. The following must be considered: the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand) the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball) the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringementtouching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement Read more at www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#OQVZvbjRPqWVZUV4.99I never knew re: thrown object etc. (interesting...!) but unnatural position of arm has only ever been a guideline for a referee's decision as to whether a handball was intentional or not. I don't think either handball was intentional. Of course, having your arms out gives the referee a decision to make, but to say they were both 'clear' penalties is very harsh, considering the ambiguity and judgement of intentions involved. I'm not talking about 'the rules', I'm talking about what a referee is ACTUALLY going to give. You know when the ref is giving the penalty, so it becomes your responsibility as the player to avoid giving him that opportunity. His arms had no reason to be out and away from his body on either occasion - his arms had no reason to be right up above his head on Saturday. He made a decision to appeal for a push by throwing his arms in the air and the ball hit his hand. Are you telling me that's not a penalty because he didn't mean to handle the ball while choosing to throw them as high as they'd go? And is it not a penalty when a player slides in and shoves his arms up and out to the side as happened last night? Really? It's all fair game? Come on. We know what a referee is and isn't realistically going to give. If you truly believe these aren't penalties because of what's written down then we'd barely ever see a penalty again. Nobody MEANS to handle the ball because they're professional footballers and they know they're not meant to do it, but there's a line and its up to the player to stay the right side of it.
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Post by eighteen93 on Sept 28, 2016 10:21:30 GMT
Can somebody please tape Phil Edwards' arms to the side of his ribs? Both this and Charlton are clear penalties - his arms are clearly out last night and on Saturday his arms were as high as they could go, because he was appealing for a free kick and not because a push made them go up. What was Edwards supposed to do ? The ball was driven at him from a yard or two. Never intentional.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Sept 28, 2016 12:19:04 GMT
Which is I imagine one of the things that made MAPP so angry. My point is Refs don't give it consistently, so should go back to the rules rather than the interpretation thereof.
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Post by socrates on Sept 28, 2016 13:01:20 GMT
Can somebody please tape Phil Edwards' arms to the side of his ribs? Both this and Charlton are clear penalties - his arms are clearly out last night and on Saturday his arms were as high as they could go, because he was appealing for a free kick and not because a push made them go up. What was Edwards supposed to do ?The ball was driven at him from a yard or two. Never intentional. He was supposed to keep his arms out of the way. They shouldn't be up there. Just like they shouldn't have been up there on Saturday It was a clear penalty
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Post by woodageoufc on Sept 28, 2016 13:15:41 GMT
This frustrates me. If he is not DELIBERATELY ATTEMPTING to handle the ball it is NOT a penalty. His arms may be in as much of an unnatural position as he sees fit, but a penalty should only be given if he INTENTIONALLY handles the ball. If he puts his hands up in appeal for a free-kick (and not to handle the ball) it is NOT a penalty. If he cannot move his arm away from the ball in time it is NOT a penalty (regardless of where his hands were in the first place). Please see official FA guidance: HANDLING THE BALL Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm. The following must be considered: the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand) the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball) the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringementtouching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement Read more at www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct.aspx#OQVZvbjRPqWVZUV4.99I never knew re: thrown object etc. (interesting...!) but unnatural position of arm has only ever been a guideline for a referee's decision as to whether a handball was intentional or not. I don't think either handball was intentional. Of course, having your arms out gives the referee a decision to make, but to say they were both 'clear' penalties is very harsh, considering the ambiguity and judgement of intentions involved. I'm not talking about 'the rules', I'm talking about what a referee is ACTUALLY going to give. You know when the ref is giving the penalty, so it becomes your responsibility as the player to avoid giving him that opportunity. His arms had no reason to be out and away from his body on either occasion - his arms had no reason to be right up above his head on Saturday. He made a decision to appeal for a push by throwing his arms in the air and the ball hit his hand. Are you telling me that's not a penalty because he didn't mean to handle the ball while choosing to throw them as high as they'd go? And is it not a penalty when a player slides in and shoves his arms up and out to the side as happened last night? Really? It's all fair game? Come on. We know what a referee is and isn't realistically going to give. If you truly believe these aren't penalties because of what's written down then we'd barely ever see a penalty again. Nobody MEANS to handle the ball because they're professional footballers and they know they're not meant to do it, but there's a line and its up to the player to stay the right side of it. Under the current laws and guidance, neither would be/should've been a penalty because they're not intentional!! The issue with the current laws is that they are so open to controversy and wrong decision - ANY time the ball hits a hand it will be controversial and yet only a tiny fraction of these will have been deliberate... Maybe it's a change in law that's required to something like a) handball for anytime the ball hits the arm, but with no punishment for the player b) a yellow card for any deliberate handball This way almost all controversy is dissipated as referees are not having to rely on their own judgement of another's intentions to the same degree of foul/no foul/penalty/no penalty and it is simply a matter of the caution type, which is not so likely to change a game. The issue with a common acceptance that laws can be misinterpreted/penalties given as they were is that they are always a cause for debate and criticism of the referee as the decision they have made is not that aligned with the only written and consistent rulebook. Of course, a professional footballer should be expected not to give the referee the opportunity to make a decision, I totally agree, but it's hard to put too much criticism on someone when they haven't actually done anything wrong by the laws of the game!!
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