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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 22, 2016 9:10:22 GMT
Except a new 20/25k stadium would be more like 20/25 mil.
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Post by krissyallen on Jul 22, 2016 9:11:28 GMT
Except a new 20/25k stadium would be more like 20/25 mil. we don't need such a big ground, we can't even fill 12,500! we need a small ground with ease of expansion
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 22, 2016 9:16:54 GMT
Except a new 20/25k stadium would be more like 20/25 mil. we don't need such a big ground, we can't even fill 12,500! we need a small ground with ease of expansion Even so, a 12.5k stadium cost us 15m. 15 years ago. It would be 20m plus the cost of land and other infrastructure. And the road from Kidlington back to the a34 is a nightmare at rush hour, so the traffic issue wouldn't be much different to the kassam, especially if the train station get the go ahead there
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Post by myles on Jul 22, 2016 9:26:22 GMT
Hi Myles The stadium conclusions/report will be formally available week commencing 8th August, but a summary of some of the key findings will be talked through with members at the OxVox members meeting on the 4th August. You'd be quite right to point out that this is beyond the original date indicated, but we have needed to delay to get a particular piece of communication that was important. Your other point about the timing of the members meeting is a good one and appreciate that a midweek during the holiday season will not suit everyone, but we do hope as many members as possible can attend for what we trust will be an informative and sociable session. Cheers Jem Hi Jem, Thanks for the response, and all fair comment. I appreciate that with the timing of members' meetings it can be difficult to sort out a suitable date and tie it in with a suitable venue, and I also appreciate that you personally travel very long distances for this and other OxVox meetings. My personal view is that such meetings should be scheduled for a time when the greatest number of members can attend, which usually means a matchday - particularly as we have a sizeable exiled population. But as someone has said, you can't please everyone! Cheers.
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Post by mcf86 on Jul 22, 2016 9:49:24 GMT
Except a new 20/25k stadium would be more like 20/25 mil. we don't need such a big ground, we can't even fill 12,500! we need a small ground with ease of expansion Bit of a myopic view, and, lacking in ambition.
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Post by headingtonutd on Jul 22, 2016 10:12:29 GMT
The proposed move to Kidlington was definitely my favourite option. It's out of town (what the council want), it's near major road and rail networks, there's plenty of space to build the ground, parking, club shop, pubs....etc Kidlington is a vibrant village which could definitely cope and thrive at the prospect of having a football ground nearby. If we as fans could come together and raise 50% of the funds (£6million at an uneducated estimate) then we could either borrow or seek investment for the other 50%. I'm sure there are also lawyers/architects/builders....etc in the fanbase whoc could also provide services pro bono to lower the costs of the project. I know this seems a rather far fetched idea, but things like this happen all over the footballing world on a smaller scale.
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Post by krissyallen on Jul 22, 2016 10:17:40 GMT
we don't need such a big ground, we can't even fill 12,500! we need a *small ground with ease of expansion Bit of a myopic view, and, lacking in ambition. do we even have a big enough potential fanbase? historically we have had a small but loyal group and have never really been able to attract the many thousands of oxfordshire residents and beyond. I go to every home and away game and have seen some dire attendances in my time, downright embarrassing.......and we're thinking about 20-25k? i really do believe some of our fans are delusional and have ideas way above their stations. *by small ground, i mean smaller in comparison to a 20-25k capacity with the potential to grow to that figure or even beyond, depending on the success of the club.
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Post by horseman on Jul 22, 2016 10:39:57 GMT
Bit of a myopic view, and, lacking in ambition. do we even have a big enough potential fanbase? historically we have had a small but loyal group and have never really been able to attract the many thousands of oxfordshire residents and beyond. I go to every home and away game and have seen some dire attendances in my time, downright embarrassing.......and we're thinking about 20-25k? i really do believe some of our fans are delusional and have ideas way above their stations. *by small ground, i mean smaller in comparison to a 20-25k capacity with the potential to grow to that figure or even beyond, depending on the success of the club. I had similar views to your own based on witnessing 50 odd years of oufc and the lack interest in football in and around the city on a larger scale but Charliesghost soon put me in my place with very well researched figures.. They're on here somewhere if you care to dig them out
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Post by krissyallen on Jul 22, 2016 10:50:14 GMT
do we even have a big enough potential fanbase? historically we have had a small but loyal group and have never really been able to attract the many thousands of oxfordshire residents and beyond. I go to every home and away game and have seen some dire attendances in my time, downright embarrassing.......and we're thinking about 20-25k? i really do believe some of our fans are delusional and have ideas way above their stations. *by small ground, i mean smaller in comparison to a 20-25k capacity with the potential to grow to that figure or even beyond, depending on the success of the club. I had similar views to your own based on witnessing 50 odd years of oufc and the lack interest in football in and around the city on a larger scale but Charliesghost soon put me in my place with very well researched figures.. They're on here somewhere if you care to dig them out I understand that there may be stats that prove me wrong, however, I can only base my opinion on recent trends and recent historical figures to which I make up a part of. No one would be happier than me to be proved wrong and we end up filling a 30, 40, 50k ground or more in the next 15 years. But in all honesty, the way football is going, there are going to be a group at the top of the pile who hardly move and then a handful who yo-yo from the top two divisions (i use this as a basis of our aspirations to be a championship club 5 years ago). Therefore, the stats that applied from 20+ years ago have little to no relevance due to a myriad of factors affecting Joe Bloggs now such as income, community, class status, the competition for the entertainment £, family status, locality....etc We have been a suppressed and ostracised football club for years and I don't see that changing in the near future. Therefore wouldn't it be better to nurture what we have?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 22, 2016 10:55:05 GMT
I had similar views to your own based on witnessing 50 odd years of oufc and the lack interest in football in and around the city on a larger scale but Charliesghost soon put me in my place with very well researched figures.. They're on here somewhere if you care to dig them out I understand that there may be stats that prove me wrong, however, I can only base my opinion on recent trends and recent historical figures to which I make up a part of. No one would be happier than me to be proved wrong and we end up filling a 30, 40, 50k ground or more in the next 15 years. But in all honesty, the way football is going, there are going to be a group at the top of the pile who hardly move and then a handful who yo-yo from the top two divisions (i use this as a basis of our aspirations to be a championship club 5 years ago). Therefore, the stats that applied from 20+ years ago have little to no relevance due to a myriad of factors affecting Joe Bloggs now such as income, community, class status, the competition for the entertainment £, family status, locality....etc We have been a suppressed and ostracised football club for years and I don't see that changing in the near future. Therefore wouldn't it be better to nurture what we have? What about the fact that it is already changing now, let alone the near future. We have sold over 1k more season tickets already, be over 1500 by the start of the season, average gates are up. We're building a temporary 700 seater stand to meet increased attendances and provide better seats for the extra ticket holders. I agree it needs to be expandable, but u would be silly not to start at 20k. That should cover is even in the championship, it will be cheaper to do at the same time rather than building again a few years later.
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Post by horseman on Jul 22, 2016 11:01:20 GMT
Ah but the thing is old boy the new fan that is wanted are at the top end of the scale both socially and financially (not my views btw)
Have you seen wembley when the 2nd half starts? it's very similar with a number of prem clubs.
if i recall correctly the idea is that a larger base will all come at differing times keeping the numbers up
I believe the comparison was made with Brighton who were on a similar level to ourselves.
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Post by horseman on Jul 22, 2016 11:03:35 GMT
I understand that there may be stats that prove me wrong, however, I can only base my opinion on recent trends and recent historical figures to which I make up a part of. No one would be happier than me to be proved wrong and we end up filling a 30, 40, 50k ground or more in the next 15 years. But in all honesty, the way football is going, there are going to be a group at the top of the pile who hardly move and then a handful who yo-yo from the top two divisions (i use this as a basis of our aspirations to be a championship club 5 years ago). Therefore, the stats that applied from 20+ years ago have little to no relevance due to a myriad of factors affecting Joe Bloggs now such as income, community, class status, the competition for the entertainment £, family status, locality....etc We have been a suppressed and ostracised football club for years and I don't see that changing in the near future. Therefore wouldn't it be better to nurture what we have? What about the fact that it is already changing now, let alone the near future. We have sold over 1k more season tickets already, be over 1500 by the start of the season, average gates are up. We're building a temporary 700 seater stand to meet increased attendances and provide better seats for the extra ticket holders. I agree it needs to be expandable, but u would be silly not to start at 20k. That should cover is even in the championship, it will be cheaper to do at the same time rather than building again a few years later. how many of those were potd?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 22, 2016 11:06:55 GMT
What about the fact that it is already changing now, let alone the near future. We have sold over 1k more season tickets already, be over 1500 by the start of the season, average gates are up. We're building a temporary 700 seater stand to meet increased attendances and provide better seats for the extra ticket holders. I agree it needs to be expandable, but u would be silly not to start at 20k. That should cover is even in the championship, it will be cheaper to do at the same time rather than building again a few years later. how many of those were potd? That's irrelevant as if u attract potd customers to become season ticket holders ur also likely to get new potd customers. The fan base and future fan base is growing massively. Ox4life season tickets have gone from 40/50 to nearly 400 in 2 seasons
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Post by horseman on Jul 22, 2016 11:12:19 GMT
how many of those were potd? That's irrelevant as if u attract potd customers to become season ticket holders ur also likely to get new potd customers. The fan base and future fan base is growing massively. Ox4life season tickets have gone from 40/50 to nearly 400 in 2 seasons That rather depends on events on the pitch does it not?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 22, 2016 11:16:10 GMT
That's irrelevant as if u attract potd customers to become season ticket holders ur also likely to get new potd customers. The fan base and future fan base is growing massively. Ox4life season tickets have gone from 40/50 to nearly 400 in 2 seasons That rather depends on events on the pitch does it not? It does, hence why they are on the up. With the ambition that we want to be a championship club. We could well have 5k season ticket holders and average attendances of over 8k this season. Go up again that could be 6/7k season ticket holders with average crowds over 10k. In that situation a 12/15k stadium isn't big enough to meet demand, as we would be getting sell outs for the big games far more often. And if ur talking of a new stadium, that could well be 5 years away, which if we went up this season and only planned to build similar capacity, is a lot of lost revenue, that will limit our ability to remain at that level
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Post by foley on Jul 22, 2016 11:26:42 GMT
Except a new 20/25k stadium would be more like 20/25 mil. we don't need such a big ground, we can't even fill 12,500! we need a small ground with ease of expansion There were numerous times last season where the crowds were 9K plus. We are now in a higher Division and crowds will be well up this season (assuming we do OK) and with ambitions to get to the Championship. Planning a stadium of less than 12,500 with the current ambitions/ plans would be incredibly unambitious in my view.
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Post by tbfuth14 on Jul 22, 2016 11:56:18 GMT
Buying the ground just fills me with dread, to be honest. How long do we have till our lease runs out and we are free to leave?
The way I look at things is if we were buying a house. If someone offered you/your consortium the opportunity to buy a half built, unattractive, characterless, sespit of a house in a poor area for 2x more than it's worth... would you scrape together funds to purchase, or look to purchase/build elsewhere?
I don't think fans realise just how run down and unfinished the Kastad is, it's not just the 4th stand that needs finishing. The East Stand alone needs finishing in the seated area, and also has 3 empty floors AND a room on top which are all derelict.
All concourses and toilets around the ground are pretty run down, gloomy and some of the worst I've ever experienced in any proper football league stadium for a club of our size. The whole place is kept together on a shoestring budget by Stadco and it would take a huge investment to get things up to scratch if we were ever to purchase the ground.
Everything for me just screams LEAVE and build elsewhere, even groundshare until we can find a permanent place to call our own.
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Post by oxfordboy on Jul 22, 2016 12:02:19 GMT
Buying the ground just fills me with dread, to be honest. How long do we have till our lease runs out and we are free to leave? The way I look at things is if we were buying a house. If someone offered you/your consortium the opportunity to buy a half built, unattractive, characterless, sespit of a house in a poor area for 2x more than it's worth... would you scrape together funds to purchase, or look to purchase/build elsewhere? I don't think fans realise just how run down and unfinished the Kastad is, it's not just the 4th stand that needs finishing. The East Stand alone needs finishing in the seated area, and also has 3 empty floors AND a room on top which are all derelict. All concourses and toilets around the ground are pretty run down, gloomy and some of the worst I've ever experienced in any proper football league stadium for a club of our size. The whole place is kept together on a shoestring budget by Stadco and it would take a huge investment to get things up to scratch if we were ever to purchase the ground. Everything for me just screams LEAVE and build elsewhere, even groundshare until we can find a permanent place to call our own. I think we have 80 something years left on the lease, so whilst I agree the Kassam is crap, the chances of moving are slim, so if we're stuck there it's better to own it
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Post by tbfuth14 on Jul 22, 2016 12:11:15 GMT
Buying the ground just fills me with dread, to be honest. How long do we have till our lease runs out and we are free to leave? The way I look at things is if we were buying a house. If someone offered you/your consortium the opportunity to buy a half built, unattractive, characterless, sespit of a house in a poor area for 2x more than it's worth... would you scrape together funds to purchase, or look to purchase/build elsewhere? I don't think fans realise just how run down and unfinished the Kastad is, it's not just the 4th stand that needs finishing. The East Stand alone needs finishing in the seated area, and also has 3 empty floors AND a room on top which are all derelict. All concourses and toilets around the ground are pretty run down, gloomy and some of the worst I've ever experienced in any proper football league stadium for a club of our size. The whole place is kept together on a shoestring budget by Stadco and it would take a huge investment to get things up to scratch if we were ever to purchase the ground. Everything for me just screams LEAVE and build elsewhere, even groundshare until we can find a permanent place to call our own. I think we have 80 something years left on the lease, so whilst I agree the Kassam is crap, the chances of moving are slim, so if we're stuck there it's better to own it 80 years?! I could have sworn there was only about 10-15 years left. Did we sign a new deal or something? it was mentioned on this forum an awful lot a few years back about how we can leave in under 20 years or so. Can't remember the exact timescale but it certainly wasn't 80! Unless I've missed something recently? Confused.com
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Post by Barts on Jul 22, 2016 12:13:51 GMT
I think we have 80 something years left on the lease, so whilst I agree the Kassam is crap, the chances of moving are slim, so if we're stuck there it's better to own it 80 years?! I could have sworn there was only about 10-15 years left. Did we sign a new deal or something? it was mentioned on this forum an awful lot a few years back about how we can leave in under 20 years or so. Can't remember the exact timescale but it certainly wasn't 80! Unless I've missed something recently? Confused.com I think its another 10 years as Kassam signed us to a 25 year deal in 2001.
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Post by tbfuth14 on Jul 22, 2016 12:16:32 GMT
80 years?! I could have sworn there was only about 10-15 years left. Did we sign a new deal or something? it was mentioned on this forum an awful lot a few years back about how we can leave in under 20 years or so. Can't remember the exact timescale but it certainly wasn't 80! Unless I've missed something recently? Confused.com I think its another 10 years as Kassam signed us to a 25 year deal in 2001. Ah that sounds correct and rings a bell from previous threads. Thankyou.
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Post by oxfordboy on Jul 22, 2016 12:17:19 GMT
I thought it was 99, seems I made that up out of nowhere then, that's good news, kind of
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 22, 2016 12:19:37 GMT
It's not like we will walk away at the end of the lease. That would t be beneficial to the club at all. For example we would likely get the lease torn up and a sum of money for us to "walk away now". And it's not worth half what we would have pay. It worth a lot more. And kassam knows that which is why he's unlikely to drop the asking price
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Post by foley on Jul 22, 2016 12:20:24 GMT
Buying the ground just fills me with dread, to be honest. How long do we have till our lease runs out and we are free to leave? The way I look at things is if we were buying a house. If someone offered you/your consortium the opportunity to buy a half built, unattractive, characterless, sespit of a house in a poor area for 2x more than it's worth... would you scrape together funds to purchase, or look to purchase/build elsewhere? I don't think fans realise just how run down and unfinished the Kastad is, it's not just the 4th stand that needs finishing. The East Stand alone needs finishing in the seated area, and also has 3 empty floors AND a room on top which are all derelict. All concourses and toilets around the ground are pretty run down, gloomy and some of the worst I've ever experienced in any proper football league stadium for a club of our size. The whole place is kept together on a shoestring budget by Stadco and it would take a huge investment to get things up to scratch if we were ever to purchase the ground. Everything for me just screams LEAVE and build elsewhere, even groundshare until we can find a permanent place to call our own. Unfortunately it is nothing like buying a house. Getting planning permission is a huge ask and whether the Council would want to agree to a new plot of land being used for a Football Ground, when there is already one built is a key issue. So although we only have 10 years left Kassam will not be able to simply chuck us out at this stage as the Council will be able to keep the ground as a leisure facility I would suspect. And... if the council suggest that they will not give planning permission anywhere else (or the club deem it as too expensive) then the club will have no choice. I don't want to second guess Oxvox who have I believe done a huge amount of work on this but it is possible that we have to stay at the Kassam and if that is the case would you want OUFC owning it or Kassam?
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Post by Barts on Jul 22, 2016 12:20:56 GMT
I thought it was 99, seems I made that up out of nowhere then, that's good news, kind of I think by memory the 99 year thing is the sports covenant on the ground.
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Post by tbfuth14 on Jul 22, 2016 13:09:01 GMT
Buying the ground just fills me with dread, to be honest. How long do we have till our lease runs out and we are free to leave? The way I look at things is if we were buying a house. If someone offered you/your consortium the opportunity to buy a half built, unattractive, characterless, sespit of a house in a poor area for 2x more than it's worth... would you scrape together funds to purchase, or look to purchase/build elsewhere? I don't think fans realise just how run down and unfinished the Kastad is, it's not just the 4th stand that needs finishing. The East Stand alone needs finishing in the seated area, and also has 3 empty floors AND a room on top which are all derelict. All concourses and toilets around the ground are pretty run down, gloomy and some of the worst I've ever experienced in any proper football league stadium for a club of our size. The whole place is kept together on a shoestring budget by Stadco and it would take a huge investment to get things up to scratch if we were ever to purchase the ground. Everything for me just screams LEAVE and build elsewhere, even groundshare until we can find a permanent place to call our own. Unfortunately it is nothing like buying a house. Getting planning permission is a huge ask and whether the Council would want to agree to a new plot of land being used for a Football Ground, when there is already one built is a key issue. So although we only have 10 years left Kassam will not be able to simply chuck us out at this stage as the Council will be able to keep the ground as a leisure facility I would suspect. And... if the council suggest that they will not give planning permission anywhere else (or the club deem it as too expensive) then the club will have no choice. I don't want to second guess Oxvox who have I believe done a huge amount of work on this but it is possible that we have to stay at the Kassam and if that is the case would you want OUFC owning it or Kassam? Yes, that's fairly obvious that stadium purchases are absolutely nothing like house purchases. They're worlds apart, however I was trying to point out that the Kassam is not just a *4th stand and voila* project. The investment needed to complete the ground is probably worlds apart compared to what the majority of fans think. Think I've managed to see almost every inch of the Kastad now over the years, and it's more depressing than you'd think inside and out. Charlie M looked into this at huge depth pre-takeover, and had a lot of conversations with the Council into whether Water Eaton was viable. He can probably shed more light on our options and their viability than anyone else.
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Post by foley on Jul 22, 2016 13:34:35 GMT
Unfortunately it is nothing like buying a house. Getting planning permission is a huge ask and whether the Council would want to agree to a new plot of land being used for a Football Ground, when there is already one built is a key issue. Charlie M looked into this at huge depth pre-takeover, and had a lot of conversations with the Council into whether Water Eaton was viable. He can probably shed more light on our options and their viability than anyone else. Charlie M did do a lot of work but from the Oxvox notes they have taken all of this on and have done a significant amount of additional work to the extent that they are about to give their conclusions in the meeting in early August. My guess is that having spend a lot of time on this it has been concluded that the best option is to try and buy the Kassam , but that is pure guesswork and reading through the lines. I don't disagree with what you say, but if that is the conclusion and more importantly if the club were to buy the ground, they could do a whole load of things to make the ground fra batter for the supporters.
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Post by tbfuth14 on Jul 22, 2016 13:54:01 GMT
Charlie M looked into this at huge depth pre-takeover, and had a lot of conversations with the Council into whether Water Eaton was viable. He can probably shed more light on our options and their viability than anyone else. Charlie M did do a lot of work but from the Oxvox notes they have taken all of this on and have done a significant amount of additional work to the extent that they are about to give their conclusions in the meeting in early August. My guess is that having spend a lot of time on this it has been concluded that the best option is to try and buy the Kassam , but that is pure guesswork and reading through the lines. I don't disagree with what you say, but if that is the conclusion and more importantly if the club were to buy the ground, they could do a whole load of things to make the ground fra batter for the supporters. Looking forward to the results and thank all involved for the hard work too! If the best option is to buy the Kassam then we'll have to slowly, bit by bit, transform it into our "fortress". The list of improvements are endless but the 4th stand needs to be designed solely on being atmospheric, good acoustics etc. We need a London Road legacy
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Post by oufcyellows on Jul 22, 2016 14:53:56 GMT
Difference being Charlie was/is very keen on WE for what ever reasons. And this oxvox investigation has been done purely for what would be in the best option for the club, from a totally neutral perspective. That's not a dig at Charlie
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Post by krissyallen on Jul 22, 2016 14:55:57 GMT
we don't need such a big ground, we can't even fill 12,500! we need a small ground with ease of expansion There were numerous times last season where the crowds were 9K plus. We are now in a higher Division and crowds will be well up this season (assuming we do OK) and with ambitions to get to the Championship. Planning a stadium of less than 12,500 with the current ambitions/ plans would be incredibly unambitious in my view. I agree
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