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Post by oufcyellows on May 19, 2016 14:51:13 GMT
A temporary stand incoperating safe standing/rail seating potentially could be 'funded' by contacting the manufacturers of rail seating/safe standing ( Celtic are installing a safe standing section during this current close season) as a temporary stand, the safe standing/ rail seating makers potentially could use Oxford Uniteds temporary stand as a working, demonstration in the English league ...... again, potentially they would pay for the terracing/rail seating, as a promotion for their product so all the powers that be, FA, FL, safety nazis etc could make an assesment etc ...... over to Charlie's old buddy, now oufc top bannana, to get negotiating & if sucessful , it would put OUFC at the vanguard of safe standing in England FSF have a campaign running re safe standing OUFC chairman has said at fans forums that he supports safe standing it cant be too hard to get a 4th stand more or less 'funded' by the company that makes safe standing rail seats, given that Charlies mate/former employee is meant to be a decent negotiator ? maybe oxvox could get behind this as an option too? It's all very well, but Celtic have permission in place to use it. The football league don't, so until they do being a trail blazer is great, but not if we're never get enough a certificate to use it
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 15:11:35 GMT
A temporary stand incoperating safe standing/rail seating potentially could be 'funded' by contacting the manufacturers of rail seating/safe standing ( Celtic are installing a safe standing section during this current close season) as a temporary stand, the safe standing/ rail seating makers potentially could use Oxford Uniteds temporary stand as a working, demonstration in the English league ...... again, potentially they would pay for the terracing/rail seating, as a promotion for their product so all the powers that be, FA, FL, safety nazis etc could make an assesment etc ...... over to Charlie's old buddy, now oufc top bannana, to get negotiating & if sucessful , it would put OUFC at the vanguard of safe standing in England FSF have a campaign running re safe standing OUFC chairman has said at fans forums that he supports safe standing it cant be too hard to get a 4th stand more or less 'funded' by the company that makes safe standing rail seats, given that Charlies mate/former employee is meant to be a decent negotiator ? maybe oxvox could get behind this as an option too? It's all very well, but Celtic have permission in place to use it. The football league don't, so until they do being a trail blazer is great, but not if we're never get enough a certificate to use it Explain how Celtic have got 'permission' yet you claim 'we' wont? .... HSE (health and safety executive) are the same body for the entire mainland (not sure about NI) .... so how did Celtic get permission and we wont , from the same organisation? ( BTW I have a number of qualifications in H&S!) ....Dont forget one of the most horrific accidents at a football match in mainland Britain was in Scotland, the Ibrox disaster, (in Scotland!) yet you confidently claim Celtic have got permission, but you state emphatically that' we' wont, please enlighten how you have accertained that? remember this too ....it was common , but erroneous belief that terraces had been outlawed at football league grounds, a few years ago, Morcambe built a terrace as part of their stadiium , its still there, still in use, NO objections or sanctions from the football league....why has that happened I wonder?
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Post by oufcyellows on May 19, 2016 15:21:14 GMT
Nothing to do with h&s . I dont know if u noticed, but we play in a different country to Celtic. The Scottish fa have given permission for safe standing trial , the fa and football league as yet haven't
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Post by myles on May 19, 2016 15:49:46 GMT
HSE (health and safety executive) are the same body for the entire mainland (not sure about NI) .... so how did Celtic get permission and we wont , from the same organisation? HSE don't licence football grounds.
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 16:05:37 GMT
HSE (health and safety executive) are the same body for the entire mainland (not sure about NI) .... so how did Celtic get permission and we wont , from the same organisation? HSE don't licence football grounds. tell us who is the legal body that does then myles?
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Post by Denissmithswig on May 19, 2016 16:10:59 GMT
HSE don't licence football grounds. tell us who is the legal body that does then myles? The government are currently blocking any attempts to trial safe standing in England. They may look to trial it at some point but not until they see how it goes at Celtic. Until then there will be no safe standing trials in England.
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Post by whingit on May 19, 2016 16:22:05 GMT
Scotland are trying it; Wales are for it, it's only a matter of time before it will be allowed here. To try and speed things up, perhaps everybody could email their MP asking if they support it and if their answer is no, whether they would if the trial at Celtic is a success.
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 16:22:51 GMT
tell us who is the legal body that does then myles? The government are currently blocking any attempts to trial safe standing in England. They may look to trial it at some point but not until they see how it goes at Celtic. Until then there will be no safe standing trials in England. source to confirm that? ....have you got a link to share that information ?
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 16:25:12 GMT
Scotland are trying it; Wales are for it, it's only a matter of time before it will be allowed here. To try and speed things up, perhaps everybody could email their MP asking if they support it and if their answer is no, whether they would if the trial at Celtic is a success. Oxford East MP , Andrew Smith has stated many times he is favour and backs introducing safe standing & the breeze block is in his contituency
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Post by whingit on May 19, 2016 16:25:48 GMT
The government are currently blocking any attempts to trial safe standing in England. They may look to trial it at some point but not until they see how it goes at Celtic. Until then there will be no safe standing trials in England. source to confirm that? ....have you got a link to share that information ? The Taylor report, post Hilsborough, ensured it was put into legislation. The only way it will be legalised is through government.
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Post by whingit on May 19, 2016 16:32:41 GMT
Will Burton's away terrace now need seating because they are in the Championship?
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 16:53:06 GMT
source to confirm that? ....have you got a link to share that information ? The Taylor report, post Hilsborough, ensured it was put into legislation. The only way it will be legalised is through government. did it? theres a lot of popularly held misconceptions regarding the implications of the taylor report! If memory serves, the FA , along Euafa (or what ever it is today) (& the 'corrupt' Fifa? ) were behind ATTEMPTING to impose all seater stadiums ....it was NOT a requirement contained within the Taylor report,( doubt if many on here have read it in its entireity ..... youd need a couple of days minimum!), ...... explain exactly HOW Morcambe were allowed to build and (still) retain a terrace n their recently built ground, IF a terrace is, apparently illegal? theres a profusion of erroneously held misconceptions on the subject which are actually wrong FSF have been in dialogue with the relevant authorities for a few years now on the very subject of safe standing....may have something to do with their campaign for safe standing perhaps? ....its been running as a campaign since 2002! link for anyone who might want hard facts instead of supposition & misconceptions ..... www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/
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Post by whingit on May 19, 2016 17:05:44 GMT
The Taylor report, post Hilsborough, ensured it was put into legislation. The only way it will be legalised is through government. did it? theres a lot of popularly held misconceptions regarding the implications of the taylor report! If memory serves, the FA , along Euafa (or what ever it is today) (& the 'corrupt' Fifa? ) were behind ATTEMPTING to impose all seater stadiums ....it was NOT a requirement contained within the Taylor report,( doubt if many on here have read it in its entireity ..... youd need a couple of days minimum!), ...... explain exactly HOW Morcambe were allowed to build and (still) retain a terrace n their recently built ground, IF a terrace is, apparently illegal? theres a profusion of erroneously held misconceptions on the subject which are actually wrong FSF have been in dialogue with the relevant authorities for a few years now on the very subject of safe standing....may have something to do with their campaign for safe standing perhaps? ....its been running as a campaign since 2002! link for anyone who might want hard facts instead of supposition & misconceptions ..... www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/Because Morcambe are outside of the top two divisions. I'm not saying I'm informed on the subject, but you appear not to be either.
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Post by Denissmithswig on May 19, 2016 17:19:40 GMT
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 17:52:08 GMT
cheers for taking the trouble denissmithwig, itis interesting, albeit nothing new on the subject ....and the information confirms it applies to 'top flight' as well as having been penned by someone who appears to subscribe to and who perpetuates much of the misinformation on the subject ( due mostly to the Hillsborough disaster...unsurprisingly as its its a liverpool local paper)
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Post by Mark on May 19, 2016 18:08:36 GMT
cheers for taking the trouble denissmithwig, itis interesting, albeit nothing new on the subject ....and the information confirms it applies to 'top flight' as well as having been penned by someone who appears to subscribe to and who perpetuates much of the misinformation on the subject ( due mostly to the Hillsborough disaster...unsurprisingly as its its a liverpool local paper) Sorry Sarge, but a bit of background reading yourself would answer your questions about who is in charge of rules about all seaters / bringing back terracing in England (and Wales), why Scotland is different, why the all seater rules don't yet apply to clubs like Burton.
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Post by myles on May 19, 2016 18:12:33 GMT
tell us who is the legal body that does then myles? Safety Certificates are issued by the local authority; in Oxford's case this is Oxfordshire County Council. Oversight is given by the local authority, the Sports Stadia Safety Authority, the emergency services, and some other parties. HSE has virtually no involvement with sports stadia.
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 18:24:53 GMT
did it? theres a lot of popularly held misconceptions regarding the implications of the taylor report! If memory serves, the FA , along Euafa (or what ever it is today) (& the 'corrupt' Fifa? ) were behind ATTEMPTING to impose all seater stadiums ....it was NOT a requirement contained within the Taylor report,( doubt if many on here have read it in its entireity ..... youd need a couple of days minimum!), ...... explain exactly HOW Morcambe were allowed to build and (still) retain a terrace n their recently built ground, IF a terrace is, apparently illegal? theres a profusion of erroneously held misconceptions on the subject which are actually wrong FSF have been in dialogue with the relevant authorities for a few years now on the very subject of safe standing....may have something to do with their campaign for safe standing perhaps? ....its been running as a campaign since 2002! link for anyone who might want hard facts instead of supposition & misconceptions ..... www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/Because Morcambe are outside of the top two divisions. I'm not saying I'm informed on the subject, but you appear not to be either. oh dear Whingit, did anyone ever inform you that sometime things, or for that matter, people , may not be quite as they 'appear'? ..... IF youd care to go back to several threads on the subject of safe standing etc from a few years ago, on this very forum ....before your time perhaps? ..... you might save a bit of time....and you'll find that although Im far from being an expert on the subject, I do have quite a bit of genuine, as opposed to speculative, knowledge of the subject For your information Ive been actively challenging all seater stadiums since their introduction ... Simply, from a safety perspective, fact is, it takes considerably longer to evacuate an all seated stand than it ever will do to evacuate a terrace. Crucial seconds can make all the difference in a life threatening situation..... ( do you remember the horrific Bradford fire of around 30 years ago? ) Ive also actively campaigned & challenged a number of other ongoing 'regulations' that discriminate against football supporters in comparison to other sports supporters in the UK knowing how to apply a freedom of information act, and which authorities, and the like will help proving accurate information Ive found can be very enlightening....on a number of subjects....including this one! ..... so, do you have proof ( source and link please) that Morcambe were 'allowed' to build a terrace as part of a new stadium because they are not in the top 2 divisions? Id be very interested to see that or is it just speculation on your part? .... Football Supporters Federation saw Morcambe building a NEW terrace in their stadium, as something to utilise in their ongoing campaign for safe standing in the UK If the season was still ongoing, Id offer to meet you for a pre match beer & chat on the subject of safe standing....maybe thats something that can wait until the pre season friendlies?
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Post by oufcyellows on May 19, 2016 18:36:45 GMT
Because Morcambe are outside of the top two divisions. I'm not saying I'm informed on the subject, but you appear not to be either. oh dear Whingit, dis anyone ever inform you that sometime things, or for that matter, people , may not be quite as they 'appear'? ..... IF youd care to go back to several threads on the subject of safe standing etc from a few years ago, on this very forum ....before your time perhaps? ..... you might save a bit of time....and you'll find that although Im far from being an expert on the subject, I do have quite a bit of genuine, as opposed to speculative, knowledge of the subject For your information Ive been actively challenging all seater stadiums since their introduction ... Simply, from a safety perspective, fact is, it takes considerably longer to evacuate an all seated stand than it ever will do to evacuate a terrace. Crucial seconds can make all the difference in a life threatening situation..... ( do you remember the horrific Bradford fire of around 30 years ago? ) Ive also actively campaigned & challenged a number of other ongoing 'regulations' that discriminate against football supporters in comparison to other sports supporters in the UK knowing how to apply a freedom of information act, and which authorities, and the like will help proving accurate information Ive found can be very enlightening....on a number of subjects....including this one! ..... so, do you have proof ( source and link please) that Morcambe were 'allowed' to build a terrace as part of a new stadium because they are not in the top 2 divisions? Id be very interested to see that or is it just speculation on your part? .... Football Supporters Federation saw Morcambe building a NEW terrace in their stadium, as something to utilise in their ongoing campaign for safe standing in the UK If the season was still ongoing, Id offer to meet you for a pre match beer & chat on the subject of safe standing....maybe thats something that can wait until the pre season friendlies? U didn't know the difference between the Scottish fa and the English
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 18:52:50 GMT
oh I do ....and only too well too !
FSF campaign for safe standing applies to England, Scotland and Wales ..... England is my main concern on the safe standing subject
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 19:07:09 GMT
tell us who is the legal body that does then myles? Safety Certificates are issued by the local authority; in Oxford's case this is Oxfordshire County Council. Oversight is given by the local authority, the Sports Stadia Safety Authority, the emergency services, and some other parties. HSE has virtually no involvement with sports stadia. that is partially correct, albeit at an intial, basic & low level....who ultimately oversees the application of any safety legislation in the UK ultimately.... HSE 'rules and regs' that are the basis of any UK safety legislation,( and acts of parliament pertaining to safety) are overseen and applied by ....HSE HSE are the overseeing authority from which the ones you mentioned are 'licenced' by to carry out the neccessary ....so, actually, without the HSE sanctioning, training & licensing the ones you mentioned, they wouldnt be legally allowed to do what they do safety wise, And should there been an incident/disaster/ or whatever that led to loss of life or serious injuries at any sports stadium, who would investigate....I think you'll find that too would be.... HSE
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Post by myles on May 19, 2016 19:21:12 GMT
Safety Certificates are issued by the local authority; in Oxford's case this is Oxfordshire County Council. Oversight is given by the local authority, the Sports Stadia Safety Authority, the emergency services, and some other parties. HSE has virtually no involvement with sports stadia. that is partially correct, albeit at an intial, basic & low level....who ultimately oversees the application of any safety legislation in the UK ultimately.... HSE 'rules and regs' that are the basis of any UK safety legislation,( and acts of parliament pertaining to safety) are overseen and applied by ....HSE HSE are the overseeing authority from which the ones you mentioned are 'licenced' by to carry out the neccessary ....so, actually, without the HSE sanctioning, training & licensing the ones you mentioned, they wouldnt be legally allowed to do what they do safety wise, And should there been an incident/disaster/ or whatever that led to loss of life or serious injuries at any sports stadium, who would investigate....I think you'll find that too would be.... HSE I think you'll find that they won't. HSE do NOT have the jurisdiction - try the Health and Safety (Enforcing Authority) Regulations as a starting point. Also, the Sports Grounds Safety Authority are a completely separate entity enforcing completely different legislation to the Health & Safety at Work Act. Take a look at the Football Spectators Act. How do I know this? I was an HSE Inspector for nearly 14 years.
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Post by foley on May 19, 2016 19:32:50 GMT
Not sure that the standing issue is relevant here.
It appears to me that the temporary stand will be joined to the 1100 or so away section in the North Stand- so will effectively be for the away supporters.
As Slappy suggests in another spread,this is probably in order to allow home supporters to have some of the prime seats in the middle of the North Stand
If there was ever a permanent West Stand then it would be possible for the stand to be standing as the East Stand could be given to the away supporters.
As an aside the executive boxes seem to be full in many games. I wonder if the club would like additional executive boxes if another stand was built?
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 19:36:56 GMT
that is partially correct, albeit at an intial, basic & low level....who ultimately oversees the application of any safety legislation in the UK ultimately.... HSE 'rules and regs' that are the basis of any UK safety legislation,( and acts of parliament pertaining to safety) are overseen and applied by ....HSE HSE are the overseeing authority from which the ones you mentioned are 'licenced' by to carry out the neccessary ....so, actually, without the HSE sanctioning, training & licensing the ones you mentioned, they wouldnt be legally allowed to do what they do safety wise, And should there been an incident/disaster/ or whatever that led to loss of life or serious injuries at any sports stadium, who would investigate....I think you'll find that too would be.... HSE I think you'll find that they won't. HSE do NOT have the jurisdiction - try the Health and Safety (Enforcing Authority) Regulations as a starting point. Also, the Sports Grounds Safety Authority are a completely separate entity enforcing completely different legislation to the Health & Safety at Work Act. Take a look at the Football Spectators Act. How do I know this? I was an HSE Inspector for nearly 14 years. cheers for the clarification myles ..... how long since you were working as a HSE inspector? I know quite a lot safety wise ( more than I can keep up with) has changed since I was the senior safety rep at an Oxford factory for 10 years...and that was over 20 years ago just a thought, with your 14 years of expertise as a HSE inspector , (and as you are a football supporter, ) have you considered 'helping' in an advisory capacity for OUFC, should the current administration consider implementing safe standing ( someone HAS to be first, why not OUFC) with the depth of knowledge you have from your experiences? As an aside..... hopefully you can provide the correct answer given your expert knowledge.... why do different sports ground regulations apply exclusively to football stadiums, in comparison to rugby, cricket, hockey etc? ....as in one 'rule' for football stadiums, and football supporters, while less stringesnt regulations apply to stadiums involving other sports , and other non football , sports supporters ?
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Post by oufcyellows on May 19, 2016 19:40:28 GMT
I think there were a few apologies in there somewhere
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 20:02:03 GMT
I think there were a few apologies in there somewhere kind of
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Post by myles on May 19, 2016 20:02:12 GMT
cheers for the clarification myles ..... how long since you were working as a HSE inspector? I left HSE in 2010, but have continued working in H&S ever since. I already sit as the supporters' representative on the stadium Safety Advisory Group which has oversight of the Safety Certificate. So, my help and advice is there already. One word, short answer for this: politics. But there is a wider point here that the vast majority of major disasters at sporting fixtures have occurred at football grounds, so from a basic risk management approach, it could be seen as justifiable for more stringent rules to apply. And that's not me saying I necessarily agree with that approach, just that I understand the rationale behind it.
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 20:05:31 GMT
cheers for taking the trouble denissmithwig, itis interesting, albeit nothing new on the subject ....and the information confirms it applies to 'top flight' as well as having been penned by someone who appears to subscribe to and who perpetuates much of the misinformation on the subject ( due mostly to the Hillsborough disaster...unsurprisingly as its its a liverpool local paper) Sorry Sarge, but a bit of background reading yourself would answer your questions about who is in charge of rules about all seaters / bringing back terracing in England (and Wales), why Scotland is different, why the all seater rules don't yet apply to clubs like Burton. fair point slappy
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Post by sarge on May 19, 2016 20:07:51 GMT
cheers for the clarification myles ..... how long since you were working as a HSE inspector? I left HSE in 2010, but have continued working in H&S ever since. I already sit as the supporters' representative on the stadium Safety Advisory Group which has oversight of the Safety Certificate. So, my help and advice is there already. One word, short answer for this: politics. But there is a wider point here that the vast majority of major disasters at sporting fixtures have occurred at football grounds, so from a basic risk management approach, it could be seen as justifiable for more stringent rules to apply. And that's not me saying I necessarily agree with that approach, just that I understand the rationale behind it. fair points & fair enough myles cheers for the clarifications too Any chance of sorting the exits etc under the north stand so 'we' dont need such a ridiculous amount of netting/ no go area ?
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Post by Denissmithswig on May 19, 2016 20:17:58 GMT
I feel like I have lived Sarge's mood today just on this thread! Started out a bit grumpy but as it started getting into the evening he has cheered up a bit and is now relaxing with a fine glass of red wine.
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