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Post by The Fence End on May 6, 2016 10:58:50 GMT
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Post by The Fence End on May 6, 2016 10:59:49 GMT
Is that what you stayers want?
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Post by Young Money on May 6, 2016 11:05:47 GMT
I'd like us to be a United Federation of Planets, like in Star Trek. Even then there'd still be some on here saying 'we're from Earth, we need to rule ourselves'
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Post by scotters on May 6, 2016 11:09:17 GMT
I'm pretty sure this is a fake quote - I can't find any information on this other than copy-and-paste anti-EU internet comments and lunatic fringe conspiracy theory websites.
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Post by Pete Burrett on May 6, 2016 11:12:36 GMT
Is that what you stayers want? I think many stayers want sensible argument, based on fact and sourced, not these ridiculous soundbites of dubious origin. Both sides are scaremongering and it's rather pathetic.
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Post by The Fence End on May 6, 2016 11:25:14 GMT
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Post by Pete Burrett on May 6, 2016 11:29:16 GMT
There are as many 'leave' clips on the internet as there are 'remain'. Just reproducing one of them doesn't 'help' at all. Some people are undoubtedly influenced by the last thing they've seen or heard, most are not. Most are capable of absorbing lots of information and forming an opinion. They don't need to be directed towards a decision in this way.
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Post by The Fence End on May 6, 2016 11:38:49 GMT
This will help: Surely if we vote leave UKIP will have to be disbanded?!
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Post by saddletramp on May 6, 2016 11:47:02 GMT
David Cameron yesterday,discussing Donald Trump,"it's not for me to give an opinion,it's a matter for for the voters of the USA to decide who they choose an the next President" This on the same day as he shared a platform with the Japanese prime minister spouting off about why Britain should stay in Europe.
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Post by The Fence End on May 6, 2016 12:34:19 GMT
David Cameron yesterday,discussing Donald Trump,"it's not for me to give an opinion,it's a matter for for the voters of the USA to decide who they choose an the next President" This on the same day as he shared a platform with the Japanese prime minister spouting off about why Britain should stay in Europe. He needs a favour from the Americans and the Japanese that's why. I found it odd that Obama used the word queue rather than the word line which us what Americans usually call a queue. It's as though he'd been asked to say it...
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Post by flean on May 6, 2016 13:58:58 GMT
There was a time when British people would sacrifice everything for the right to be self governed and protect our national identity. Now a large percentage of British people aren't even will to POSSIBLY sacrifice a few quid to protect our national identity. That is a weak, selfish, pathetic and unpatriotic attitude which I really struggle to comprehend. It's a small price to pay in my opinion. I really don't think our self identity and right to be self governed is under any threat whatsoever from the European Union. It is an association with many different self identities. It's not going to become the United States of Europe, no matter how much you might believe that.No one has a crystal ball to see what will happen should we lose so you have to vote with your heart, do you want to live in a country that can make its own laws and plan its own course or do you ultimately want to be governed by a foreign power? Do you want to be British or European? As far as I am aware, there are no plans to make the UK stop making its own laws or be governed by a foreign power. Can you give concrete examples of your worry about this topic? I'd like to try to understand why you think this..Voting out won't change the government to a bunch of xenophobic nutters like some people think, it'll still be Dave and his mates and they can of course pass a British law that allows free movement of people from EU countries even though we may be officially outside the shengan area. So if your voting to stay in because it makes you feel liberal, don't worry about that, the government's foreign policy is unlikely to change.
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Post by flean on May 6, 2016 14:01:38 GMT
David Cameron yesterday,discussing Donald Trump,"it's not for me to give an opinion,it's a matter for for the voters of the USA to decide who they choose an the next President" This on the same day as he shared a platform with the Japanese prime minister spouting off about why Britain should stay in Europe. He needs a favour from the Americans and the Japanese that's why. I found it odd that Obama used the word queue rather than the word line which us what Americans usually call a queue. It's as though he'd been asked to say it... It's called using vernacular. An intelligent way of connecting yourself to the audience. i think looking for a conspiracy in this won't get you anywhere.
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Post by whingit on May 6, 2016 14:55:40 GMT
I'm still undecided, believe it or not, but the sovereignty argument really doesn't bother me.
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Post by tonyw on May 6, 2016 18:47:22 GMT
I see Drumpf has now come out in favour of Brexit - www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36219612That should put a few more votes on the 'In' side of the campaign! On the general European vs. British issue.....for three years I worked in Edinburgh in an office with half a dozen Brits, two Spaniards, two Greeks, a Swede, a Dutchman, a Frenchman, a German and an Italian. It was an absolute riot (in the good sense of the word). We were all scientists, so perhaps of a similar mindset by inclination, but I noticed very few differences in attitude or values, and certainly none that seemed to break along national lines. Over the course of my life, I've lived in the US for three years and I believe that, despite the common language, the differences in attitudes and values across America far outweigh the differences across Europe. And they just about keep a Union together. So yeah, I for one am with Clarkson - "I long for a time when I think of myself as a European first and an Englishman second. I crave a United States of Europe with one currency, one army and one type of plug."
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Post by The Fence End on May 6, 2016 19:20:07 GMT
I can't understand that mentality.
You can still be British and be friendly to those that aren't. You don't have to lose your nationality developed over hundreds of years and defended by millions.
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Post by Paul Cannell on May 6, 2016 19:25:58 GMT
I can't understand that mentality. You can still be British and be friendly to those that aren't. You don't have to lose your nationality developed over hundreds of years and defended by millions. Hundreds of years of immigration? What made us great - look at the inventions that fueled the 'Industrial Revolution".
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Post by The Fence End on May 6, 2016 19:54:01 GMT
Take a look at @vote_leave's Tweet:
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Post by MJB on May 6, 2016 20:05:01 GMT
Take a look at @vote_leave's Tweet: f*ck me, that's poor.
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Post by whingit on May 6, 2016 20:06:13 GMT
Take a look at @vote_leave's Tweet: Load of bollocks. For a start that £350 million figure has been proven wrong time after time, also to suggest any money we make from leaving the EU will somehow go straight into the NHS is a joke. I don't know why they try to use the membership fees as part of their case because it's agreed the economy will suffer in the short to medium term if we come out anyway.
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Post by tonyw on May 6, 2016 20:15:27 GMT
I can't understand that mentality. You can still be British and be friendly to those that aren't. You don't have to lose your nationality developed over hundreds of years and defended by millions. Wales became part of the Union in, I believe, 1536 - do you think they've ceased to be Welsh over the past five centuries? Do you think your average Texan doesn't have a great deal of pride in being just that? I'm not talking about not being British. We're never going to stop being British. I'm talking about being British and being part of a wider European collective of peoples that share a set of values.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 21:05:20 GMT
The £350m contribution is gross figure but is there any doubt that we are net contributors? I'd like to see more discussion over how much sovereignty we lose by staying in. Some leading MEPs have suggested that closer integration will come and we will join the euro. I believe the euro idea to be a catastrophic one. The idea that differing countries can have one currency despite their economies being so radically different. I don't understand the pro EU lobby arguing that Britain could not stand alone, when we have a huge economy. Plenty of countries do and negotiate their own trade deals. I can't see why the EU is being encouraged to adopt Turkey, Albania and Macedonia as new members at a potential,cost of £2billion to the UK...isn't Turkey part of Asia and not Europe?
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Post by flean on May 7, 2016 0:45:23 GMT
The fence end and Pete don't seem to want to answer my questions, not sure why.
They pipe up whenever someone else enters the discussion though.
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Post by flean on May 7, 2016 1:37:15 GMT
The £350m contribution is gross figure but is there any doubt that we are net contributors? I'd like to see more discussion over how much sovereignty we lose by staying in. Some leading MEPs have suggested that closer integration will come and we will join the euro. I believe the euro idea to be a catastrophic one. The idea that differing countries can have one currency despite their economies being so radically different. I don't understand the pro EU lobby arguing that Britain could not stand alone, when we have a huge economy. Plenty of countries do and negotiate their own trade deals. I can't see why the EU is being encouraged to adopt Turkey, Albania and Macedonia as new members at a potential,cost of £2billion to the UK...isn't Turkey part of Asia and not Europe? What sovereignty will we lose by staying in??? Answer the effing question. We will only join the Euro if our elected (by British people, not your fairy tale Johnny Foreigner in Brussels) leaders wish to. If that happens, blame British democracy, not the EU. It will not happen in our lifetimes, sleep well tonight. So, except for the bull shite sovereignty and ecomomic argument which have been proven to be at the best drastically overestimated, at the worst a complete fairytale, what other reasons do you have to leave the EU?
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Post by saddletramp on May 7, 2016 5:43:03 GMT
youth.htm (336.22 KB) We need to stay in the EU,think of the kids,without Brussels we will have have huge unemploymeny problem,oh wait !
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Post by saddletramp on May 7, 2016 6:08:33 GMT
The £350m contribution is gross figure but is there any doubt that we are net contributors? I'd like to see more discussion over how much sovereignty we lose by staying in. Some leading MEPs have suggested that closer integration will come and we will join the euro. I believe the euro idea to be a catastrophic one. The idea that differing countries can have one currency despite their economies being so radically different. I don't understand the pro EU lobby arguing that Britain could not stand alone, when we have a huge economy. Plenty of countries do and negotiate their own trade deals. I can't see why the EU is being encouraged to adopt Turkey, Albania and Macedonia as new members at a potential,cost of £2billion to the UK...isn't Turkey part of Asia and not Europe? What sovereignty will we lose by staying in??? Answer the effing question. We will only join the Euro if our elected (by British people, not your fairy tale Johnny Foreigner in Brussels) leaders wish to. If that happens, blame British democracy, not the EU. It will not happen in our lifetimes, sleep well tonight. So, except for the bull shite sovereignty and ecomomic argument which have been proven to be at the best drastically overestimated, at the worst a complete fairytale, what other reasons do you have to leave the EU? immigration,immigration,immigration,immigration, immigration,immigration.
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Post by The Fence End on May 9, 2016 19:29:45 GMT
You really have to question the sanity of Cameron after what he said today, he's lost his mind! He's taking project fear to the next level.
There may well be war in Europe but that will probably be by nations seeking their own independence like us (hopefully) and the EU not allowing that to happen democratically to protect their dream of a United States of Europe.
Once one nation goes others will want to follow.
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Post by The Fence End on May 9, 2016 19:35:52 GMT
The fence end and Pete don't seem to want to answer my questions, not sure why. They pipe up whenever someone else enters the discussion though. What was the question, I'll try my best to answer although I'm not sure I'll be an intellectual match for you to debate with! For me it's about conscience and doing the right thing and I can not with a clear conscience vote to stay in. That would be deeply unpatriotic and would be insulting to those that fought wars for us and worked so hard for us.
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Post by Pete Burrett on May 9, 2016 19:51:48 GMT
For me it's about conscience and doing the right thing and I can not with a clear conscience vote to stay in. That would be deeply unpatriotic and would be insulting to those that fought wars for us and worked so hard for us. May I ask a few questions? 1. Why would it be unpatriotic to leave? 2. Why would it be insulting to those who fought wars for us? 3. Why is the fighting of previous wars in any way relevant? 4. Why would leaving be the 'right thing' to do? It may (or may not) be the best thing for the economy, but how does that impact on your conscience? Not trying to be clever here, but I cannot make sense of your post.
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Post by whingit on May 9, 2016 20:13:05 GMT
The fence end and Pete don't seem to want to answer my questions, not sure why. They pipe up whenever someone else enters the discussion though. What was the question, I'll try my best to answer although I'm not sure I'll be an intellectual match for you to debate with! For me it's about conscience and doing the right thing and I can not with a clear conscience vote to stay in. That would be deeply unpatriotic and would be insulting to those that fought wars for us and worked so hard for us. Where do you get that judgement from? I've seen nowhere any groups of ex-army coming out in support of Brexit, I have seen this though. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-second-world-war-veterans-come-out-against-brexit-a7019646.html
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Post by The Fence End on May 9, 2016 20:52:45 GMT
For me it's about conscience and doing the right thing and I can not with a clear conscience vote to stay in. That would be deeply unpatriotic and would be insulting to those that fought wars for us and worked so hard for us. May I ask a few questions? 1. Why would it be unpatriotic to leave? 2. Why would it be insulting to those who fought wars for us? 3. Why is the fighting of previous wars in any way relevant? 4. Why would leaving be the 'right thing' to do? It may (or may not) be the best thing for the economy, but how does that impact on your conscience? Not trying to be clever here, but I cannot make sense of your post. It would be unpatriotic to stay IN the EU in my opinion. Many of those fought wars to protect our right to be self governed which our politicians have given away gradually to the EU. Personally I think of my grandfather who fought and he often said that he wondered why he did what he did only for politicians to give it away. For me, that's why 3 and 4 are relevant and impact on my conscience.
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