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Post by tonyw on Jun 20, 2014 11:39:05 GMT
there should have been an important NOT in between "good" and "enough"... So it should have read "England players are just good not enough"? Not sure that makes much sense!
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Post by Junior on Jun 20, 2014 12:55:15 GMT
See, for me, we are a solid centre half and full back away from a quality outfit.
But, there's nothing coming through, is there?
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Post by Hicko on Jun 20, 2014 18:35:18 GMT
if we lose against Costa Rica and end the world cup on 0 points, im not sure we can keep RH.
He should just play a bunch of younsters in the last game. no Gerrard, no baines and no rooney. we have nothing to lose and will give the youngsters good experience
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Post by chippsy on Jun 20, 2014 18:43:00 GMT
if we lose against Costa Rica and end the world cup on 0 points, im not sure we can keep RH. He should just play a bunch of younsters in the last game. no Gerrard, no baines and no rooney. we have nothing to lose and will give the youngsters good experience It's the players that have to stand up and be counted.. Changing the manager does not change the pool of players he can choose from. It's not about the players playing for their manager it's about players playing with pride and determination for their country... They let us down and they let him down....
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Post by Hicko on Jun 20, 2014 18:54:15 GMT
i dont think the manager is the problem. the england team have a HUGE problem. We need to put things into effect now but wont see any effect from it for 10years. the day the PL became separate from the Football league and paid more attention to money over anything, is when our problems started.
if England come out of the world cup with 0 points and keep there manager, im not sure it sets a good example. you can say they should stick with there manager (and i would agree) but he should be getting something out of 3 games.
if england win on tuesday, its a different story regarding his job and he will probably keep it til the euros
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Post by Yellowbrains on Jun 20, 2014 22:21:22 GMT
I think we're always going to struggle at international level regardless of who manages the side due to a number of factors. EDIT: Having just read this back I've realised what a long-winded rant this is, so I'll summarise it here for those who can't be bothered to wade through my ramblings. England's problems are: 1) cultural changes 2) the Premier League (obviously) and 3) too much money (admittedly a by-product of 2). But by all means keep reading the rest if you feel like it. 1. In contrast to some other countries (and our own in the past, especially in working class urban areas), there is no longer any notable culture of kids spending their afternoons outside playing football just for the sheer joy of it. Most kids play football once or twice a week for their local club and then the rest of the week doing other things. Even at elite Academy level they still have a limited amount of contact time. Partly it's to do with an increasing tendency on the part of parents to micro-manage their kids' lives, so they know where their kids are and what they're doing every second of the day. They want to keep their kids indoors under their nose all the time, so the only time they can play football is in a very controlled and structured environment. English players, as a result, don't play with any kind of freedom or joy. The other factor in this is that today there are so many other activities competing for kids' time. Sure, plenty of kids like playing football, but they also like playing video games. 2. Thatcher, of course, is also to blame, just she's to blame for everything wrong with the country . The Premier League breakaway was the end of English football as it was always traditionally known and the FA foolishly signed its own death warrant. They surrendered control of English football to the big clubs and - surprise, surprise! - those clubs have always acted in their own interests. What does it matter to them if the national team struggles? Classic Thatcherite self-interest! We now have this absurd system where the fate of the entire body of English football rests in the hands of a few irresponsible, self-interested parties - most of whom aren't even English! Think of all the stakeholders in the English game - lower league/non-league clubs, grassroots football, players, fans - who have absolutely no influence over the running of the game. Instead it's all in the hands of the Premier League clubs. It's scandalous! If all parties had equal representation in the running of the game not only would the national team be much stronger, but our league system would be fairer, our development pathway would be far more effective and there would be far greater opportunities to play football for everyone and with better facilities. 3. But of course if that happened there would be less money for the Premier League clubs and we can't have that! People always point to the huge amounts of money that came into the game as a positive thing, but you can have too much of a good thing. The increased money that came into the game with the Premier League has obviously had some positive effects: the standard of football in the domestic game is obviously higher and facilities at the top clubs are better, which has in turn generated more interest in the game. Certainly those things were needed desperately during the dark ages which had gone before. But the vast amounts of money that have come in, the free market economics and the subsequent inequalities that have also been introduced have had a huge detriment on English football overall. The Premier League has been a success story only for itself, not for English football. When talented footballers from around the world, attracted by the money on offer, started coming to England to ply their trade it was felt that their influence would be a positive thing for the young English players who would be playing alongside and against them. Except, of course, that there are so many of them playing in England now that not enough English players are getting that opportunity. Why would any club hoping to compete in the Premier League waste time and money developing a young player's game when they can just go and buy a foreign star and get the finished article immediately? (Personally, I think the answer now is for English players to go and play abroad, where they will not only get to experience a different culture and style of football, but perhaps they might actually get to play at the top level. But then why would any player do that when they can earn more money playing for Chelsea's Under 21s?) Then there's also the fact that even moderately talented English players get snapped up by the biggest clubs from an early age, get treated to the best facilities in the world and told they're going to be a star. They earn big money before they've ever achieved anything and they lose their motivation to keep working hard. And it's almost got to the point now where that's the entire point of the youth development system at top English clubs. They only want to deny their rivals the potential skills of these young players, they're not interested in developing them for themselves. And when clubs start spending money to PREVENT young talent coming through, you know the whole system is f*cked. And that's why Roy Hodgson should keep his job
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Post by unification on Jun 20, 2014 23:04:25 GMT
Hicko - quick lesson from history. England lost all their matches under Bobby Robson in Euro '88, yet made the semi-finals in the World Cup two years later. One bad tournament (England were par for the course in the Euros in 2012) when expectations were low anyway is not a call for Roy to go just yet.
Hodgson's approach is good. It's youth focused, attacking and built on some positive principles. I think it's worth persisting with until Euro 2016 at least.
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Post by mooro on Jun 21, 2014 5:57:54 GMT
Baby with the bath water time - there is no need for big changes yet, this squad are only just beginning their 'journey' so to start calling for this person or that person to go is far too premature. One or two may retire by their own decision, the rest just need time to learn to play with each other and settle into their best positions, whatever those may be. Think about it, compare this 23 to the base squad that played in the qualifiers (particularly the early ones) and you will see how little time they've had together as a unit so far. Let's just leave them to evolve under RH through Euro qualification, see how they get on in the tournament itself, and we could easily have a strong base for Russia in 4 years time..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2014 8:10:01 GMT
The first English manager should not be discarded right now. He has two games, one of which they played well in and one in which the old guard let England down. The squad lacks depth and is evolving so I'm with the consensus on here. Keep the manager and resist all temptation to go for a foreigner who will be happy to come here for big money but won't be that bothered if he does well or not
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Post by londonroader on Jun 21, 2014 8:18:06 GMT
You have to give Hodgson some credit out of this world cup.
He has at last got us playing like Spain...
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Post by bonfireman on Jun 21, 2014 9:56:13 GMT
Are you serious ? Do you honestly believe that Jones, Smalling and Caulker are the answer to England's defensive frailties. Gerrard will retire from international football, as will Lampard, Roy needs to look hard and be strong and get rid of Rooney & Wellbeck, both are competing against better players for there favoured position. Glenn Johnson is another that should not play again for the National team, we have exciting players just need to put them together I've just read that and thought it must be a wind up. For jones and smalling not to be able to get in the side ahead of Cahill and jagielka speaks volumes.
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Post by stevegilbert on Jun 21, 2014 14:59:25 GMT
Let Hodgson over see the euros in 2016. The potential line could be: Hart; Flanagan, Stones, Cahill, Shaw; barkley, Wilshere, Chamberlain; Sterling, Sturridge, Lallana.
That is an exciting line up with back ups like Henderson, Wellbeck and Baines.
By then as well I would players like Shay Facey and Devante Cole were knocking on the first team squad. Both currently play at under 19 level but are excellent prospects. Cole is Andy Cole's son and is a very quick striker, Facey is a centre back who likes to play football the right way. Reminds of me a lot of Ramos the way he is built and plays the ball around.
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