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Post by barmyarmy on Jul 31, 2012 14:31:49 GMT
Why blame the Germans? They appeared to want to blame everyone except themselves afterwards. Surely the idea is to go the correct pace throughout the race? They assumed the leaders had gone too fast, they hadnt, GB and rest went too slow and the leading group didnt fall in a heap as they expected. Surely thats their own fault and no one elses? In big horse races Aiden OBrien will often enter a pacemaker to ensure a truely run race if his main fancy is a hold up horse, insuring they are not stuck at the back in a slowly run race. Same principle or not? Because the Germans didn't have anyone in the breaks and they had a very good, and only, chance of winning the gold medal if they had also contributed to chasing down the breakaways... especially the one on the final circuit. But they hardly contributed at all. In pro cycling it's never left to just one team to chase down such breaks, especially if that team has just four workers, but also other teams with sprinters. The pace to go at during a race is one in which you still have the time to chase down any breaks... which they did have covered until the last one when the break away group increased from 12 to 30 riders... they then had no chance as a group of just four riders in chasing that one down... that's why it was the Germans fault. No, horse racing is totally different... it might be similar to a pacemaker used in running where it's individuals, but not in a bike race where it's a team effort until the last 500 yards for teams hoping to win with a sprinter. Oh Right I get it. There was a group of 12 in a leading pack and with a lap to go 18 from the main pack thought" f*ck they are too far in front best catch them up, got no chance from back here". None of those 18 were British or German so its the Germans fault because they had a sprinter like we did. Glad thats sorted out. You are right its not like horse riding, any jockey that did that would have been banned for not trying ;D
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Post by tonyw on Jul 31, 2012 15:34:19 GMT
At her best, Radcliffe was phenomenal. Almost robot like. I can't recall a British long distance runner controlling their sport so much. It's a shame she didn't get an Olympic gold medal, but when someone like Kelly Holmes gets a lot PR and Dameship for winning 2 Golds, it's only appropriate for someone who dominated their sport to get likewise.Lets hope Team GB has a great day tomorrow. Agreed Well I strongly disagree. In sport, it's all about timing and turning up for the big race. You can dominate the lesser races, set all the world records you want, but when the most important event in your sport comes round and you underperform - then you shouldn't get all the baubles and plaudits like someone who did. Furthermore in 2008, in my view, Paula Radcliffe committed the cardinal sin of being a poor loser - which is never a great thing, but is an absolute no-no when the Olympics come round. Stopping in the marathon, in that heat - fair enough. She might have died had she carried on. But pulling up in the 10,000m. A stroll for her, in pleasant evening conditions? Very bad form. It's the Olympics - it's bigger than you are. Finish the damn race. That was mental weakness, and one of the reasons that I don't rate her as a British Olympian. By contrast, as you can probably guess, Derek Redmond is a hero. And another great is Marc Jenkins. Not someone most people remember - but the British guy who broke his bike in the triathlon in 2004, and then ran the last 2km of the cycle ride with it on his back to finish the race. Now that is being an Olympian.
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Post by foghornleghorn on Jul 31, 2012 15:51:37 GMT
Well I strongly disagree. In sport, it's all about timing and turning up for the big race. You can dominate the lesser races, set all the world records you want, but when the most important event in your sport comes round and you underperform - then you shouldn't get all the baubles and plaudits like someone who did. Furthermore in 2008, in my view, Paula Radcliffe committed the cardinal sin of being a poor loser - which is never a great thing, but is an absolute no-no when the Olympics come round. Stopping in the marathon, in that heat - fair enough. She might have died had she carried on. But pulling up in the 10,000m. A stroll for her, in pleasant evening conditions? Very bad form. It's the Olympics - it's bigger than you are. Finish the damn race. That was mental weakness, and one of the reasons that I don't rate her as a British Olympian. By contrast, as you can probably guess, Derek Redmond is a hero. And another great is Marc Jenkins. Not someone most people remember - but the British guy who broke his bike in the triathlon in 2004, and then ran the last 2km of the cycle ride with it on his back to finish the race. Now that is being an Olympian. I agree with the second point, she doers seem a bit bratty in Olympics, but then that's probably true of a lot of Olympians, especially individualists. Kelly Homes was always Miss Second Place until that Olympics when she just pulled it out the bag but I would argue that Radcliffes performances outside the Olympics are enough for an MBE. IMO the marathon events outside of the Olympics are bigger than the Olympic marathon title. She's still the world record holder isn't she?
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Post by Boogaloo on Jul 31, 2012 17:54:45 GMT
The 'bratty' sportsmen are what you need though if you want to be successful. Take Andy Murray for example, after his Wimbledon title he was in tears and really beat himself up. He's not one of these 'Oh I'm just happy to be here' sort. He's not like one of these swimmers who I heard the other day saying they are delighted with a 5th place in the final. You wouldn't catch Michael Phelps being delighted with anything less than a gold.
Kelly Holmes hit her purple patch once and that just so happened to be during the Olympic fortnight. She was always in the shadow of Maria Matola. Whereas Paula Radcliffe was dominant for the best part of ten years - Holmes got lucky for two weeks.
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Post by tonyw on Aug 1, 2012 13:03:41 GMT
The 'bratty' sportsmen are what you need though if you want to be successful. Take Andy Murray for example, after his Wimbledon title he was in tears and really beat himself up. He's not one of these 'Oh I'm just happy to be here' sort. He's not like one of these swimmers who I heard the other day saying they are delighted with a 5th place in the final. You wouldn't catch Michael Phelps being delighted with anything less than a gold. Yeah, but both Phelps and Murray never gave up, and were gracious in defeat - even if they hated it. Radcliffe just made excuses and quit on the 10,000m. She's no hero of mine.......
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Post by Simon Lill on Aug 1, 2012 13:07:32 GMT
The 'bratty' sportsmen are what you need though if you want to be successful. Take Andy Murray for example, after his Wimbledon title he was in tears and really beat himself up. He's not one of these 'Oh I'm just happy to be here' sort. He's not like one of these swimmers who I heard the other day saying they are delighted with a 5th place in the final. You wouldn't catch Michael Phelps being delighted with anything less than a gold. Kelly Holmes hit her purple patch once and that just so happened to be during the Olympic fortnight. She was always in the shadow of Maria Matola. Whereas Paula Radcliffe was dominant for the best part of ten years - Holmes got lucky for two weeks. And got made Dame because of it!
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Post by SteMerritt on Aug 1, 2012 13:24:02 GMT
Distance running is more a mental challenge than a physical one. When you lose your mental focus, that can just be it, that is what happened to Radcliffe in the Olympic marathon. She was obviously struggling in the heat, then the head set in and finished her. She should have never competed in the 10K a few days later, a lesser athlete wouldn't have even been on the start line. She hadn't mentally recovered from the devastation of the marathon, and when she hit the limits in the 10K, she cracked again.
She will unfortunately be remembered for that Olympics, and not for being the best female distance runner we have ever produced by a long way.
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Post by moobs on Aug 1, 2012 13:26:16 GMT
To be fair it's the wrong time of year to run marathons.
I heard that Gabresalassie didn't run the Olympic marathon because it was too hot and he's african....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 14:07:00 GMT
Nobody ever wins a gold medal at the Olympics through luck, never mind two. Suggesting otherwise is a good way to invalidate your argument. What's that old saying? "The harder I work, the luckier I get"?
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Post by moobs on Aug 1, 2012 14:18:37 GMT
Nobody ever wins a gold medal at the Olympics through luck, never mind two. Suggesting otherwise is a good way to invalidate your argument. What's that old saying? "The harder I work, the luckier I get"? Okay. So are you saying that Holmes was a better middle distance runner than Radcliffe was a long distance runner?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 14:42:40 GMT
Nobody ever wins a gold medal at the Olympics through luck, never mind two. Suggesting otherwise is a good way to invalidate your argument. What's that old saying? "The harder I work, the luckier I get"? Okay. So are you saying that Holmes was a better middle distance runner than Radcliffe was a long distance runner? No, I said she wasn't lucky, I didn't even mention Radcliffe. Is English not your first language?
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Post by foghornleghorn on Aug 1, 2012 14:48:44 GMT
Nobody ever wins a gold medal at the Olympics through luck I beg to differ! There was a certain amount of luck involved in that!
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Post by tomox on Aug 1, 2012 15:14:10 GMT
Wiggins bags gold and becomes most decorated British athlete of all time.
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Post by moobs on Aug 1, 2012 16:06:16 GMT
Okay. So are you saying that Holmes was a better middle distance runner than Radcliffe was a long distance runner? No, I said she wasn't lucky, I didn't even mention Radcliffe. Is English not your first language? Well I did because I was making a comparison between the fortunes of 2 athletes where 1 was an Olympic Champion, the other not. You seem to suggest that PR was perhaps just not good enough to win an Olympic medal? In which case Holmes excelled in her sport more than Radcliffe did?
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Post by Boogaloo on Aug 1, 2012 16:06:54 GMT
Nobody ever wins a gold medal at the Olympics through luck, never mind two. Suggesting otherwise is a good way to invalidate your argument. What's that old saying? "The harder I work, the luckier I get"? Okay, maybe 'lucky' is not a good choice of words. Kelly Holmes was often injured, out of form or simply not good enough through most of here career - yet everything seemed to click in Barcelona and come together at the right time - Holmes hit the best form of her career and more significantly, the legendary Maria Mutola hit the worst form of her career. How anyone can say a two week purple patch in middle-ditance running eclipses nearly ten years at the very top of long-distance running I find astonishing. Two Olympic medals don't trump ten years of global domination. To this day, it baffles me how Holmes' exploits were deemed good enough to earn a damehood. I guess this is modern day political band-wagon jumping - a bit like when the 2005 Ashes winners were all given MBEs, including Kevin Pietersen received an MBE for services to cricket having only played five test matches at that point of his career!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 16:19:00 GMT
Two Olympic medals don't trump ten years of global domination. In terms of a realistic assessment of how good they were, no But in terms of what you'd rather have, probably yes!
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Post by Simon Lill on Aug 1, 2012 16:21:53 GMT
Nobody ever wins a gold medal at the Olympics through luck, never mind two. Suggesting otherwise is a good way to invalidate your argument. What's that old saying? "The harder I work, the luckier I get"? To this day, it baffles me how Holmes' exploits were deemed good enough to earn a damehood. I'm with you! Her achievements in those Olympics were deserving of the gold medals she won...but nothing else. To go from nothing to a Dame on the back of two races defies belief. I know she didn't ask to be made Dame, but for me it sours her success in that Olympics.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 16:33:22 GMT
Nobody ever wins a gold medal at the Olympics through luck, never mind two. Suggesting otherwise is a good way to invalidate your argument. What's that old saying? "The harder I work, the luckier I get"? Okay, maybe 'lucky' is not a good choice of words. Kelly Holmes was often injured, out of form or simply not good enough through most of here career - yet everything seemed to click in Barcelona and come together at the right time - Holmes hit the best form of her career and more significantly, the legendary Maria Mutola hit the worst form of her career. How anyone can say a two week purple patch in middle-ditance running eclipses nearly ten years at the very top of long-distance running I find astonishing. Two Olympic medals don't trump ten years of global domination. To this day, it baffles me how Holmes' exploits were deemed good enough to earn a damehood. I guess this is modern day political band-wagon jumping - a bit like when the 2005 Ashes winners were all given MBEs, including Kevin Pietersen received an MBE for services to cricket having only played five test matches at that point of his career! I absolutely agree with everything you say here, I just felt it unnesseccary to dismiss someone's achievements (a life's work & dedication to boot) as "luck" in order to make a point. Glad you could understand that even if Moobs couldn't
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Post by Belgian Yellow on Aug 1, 2012 16:35:45 GMT
No, I said she wasn't lucky, I didn't even mention Radcliffe. Is English not your first language? Well I did because I was making a comparison between the fortunes of 2 athletes where 1 was an Olympic Champion, the other not. You seem to suggest that PR was perhaps just not good enough to win an Olympic medal? In which case Holmes excelled in her sport more than Radcliffe did? Most normal people would think this an idiotic example given that Holmes won 2 golds for GB and Ratcliffe clearly wasn't interested in the Olympics, only in making as much money as possible from sponsored events.
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Post by hairy on Aug 1, 2012 16:49:10 GMT
I once heard it said that a marathon runner only gets about 3 to 5 great runs in a career due to the toll going that speed over 26 miles takes on the body. Radcliffe chose to use up her runs on the big city/paid marathons rather than base her schedule around the Olympics, thats fine by me as it was her decision to make but as a British athlete Holmes wins over her for putting her best performances in while representing her country.
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Post by tonyw on Aug 2, 2012 16:23:10 GMT
I wasn't really arguing in favour of Kelly Holmes getting made a dame on the back of two golds - that was a little ridiculous.
I was simply arguing that there's no way you can consider giving Paula Radcliffe that type of honour when she failed on the biggest stage in her sport - and did so without much class.
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Post by moobs on Aug 2, 2012 16:38:01 GMT
I wasn't really arguing in favour of Kelly Holmes getting made a dame on the back of two golds - that was a little ridiculous. I was simply arguing that there's no way you can consider giving Paula Radcliffe that type of honour when she failed on the biggest stage in her sport - and did so without much class. Okay. If you were to debate who the greatest ever female middle distance runners were, I doubt Holmes would get a mention? She's not a legend by any means If you were to debate who the greatest female marathon runners were, Radcliffe would one of the main pratagonists.
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Post by Boogaloo on Aug 2, 2012 17:51:01 GMT
I wasn't really arguing in favour of Kelly Holmes getting made a dame on the back of two golds - that was a little ridiculous. I was simply arguing that there's no way you can consider giving Paula Radcliffe that type of honour when she failed on the biggest stage in her sport - and did so without much class. Again I agree neither of them should receive a Damehood. I would have it as Holmes OBE, Radcliffe CBE. Knighthoods and Damehoods should only be for the real true legends of British sport e.g. Sir Ian Botham, Sir Steven Redgrave, Dame Tanni-Grey Thompson.
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Post by yellowj on Aug 2, 2012 18:54:43 GMT
I got some tickets to go to the Para Olympics in September. It's for the Athletics in the Olympic Stadium. I thought it would be a good experience to visit the Olympic Stadium and hopefully some Team GB medals. We've got good seats too.
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Post by Gary Baldi on Aug 2, 2012 21:17:10 GMT
The more I watch the Olympics and see people like Gemma Gibbons and the K2 Canoeists, it makes me look at some of our footballers and wonder where it all went wrong. They talk a good game, prance around in flash new boots, get another tattoo or hair cut, offer their expert opinions on Twitter but don't deliver when it matters on the big stage. It's all talk.
When you think about how much someone like Rooney or Tevez earns a week and see a person like Peter Wilson the shooter who moved abroad to get better, you realise what a bunch of pampered and selfish idiots footballers have become. It's almost embarassing to see how woeful we are in the big international tournaments.
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Post by leysboy on Aug 2, 2012 21:28:20 GMT
The more I watch the Olympics and see people like Gemma Gibbons and the K2 Canoeists, it makes me look at some of our footballers and wonder where it all went wrong. They talk a good game, prance around in flash new boots, get another tattoo or hair cut, offer their expert opinions on Twitter but don't deliver when it matters on the big stage. It's all talk. When you think about how much someone like Rooney or Tevez earns a week and see a person like Peter Wilson the shooter who moved abroad to get better, you realise what a bunch of pampered and selfish idiots footballers have become. It's almost embarassing to see how woeful we are in the big international tournaments. Totally agree with you. It's been another solid day, when it comes to medals, just a BIG shame the women cyclists made an error as im sure that would of been another medal in the bag.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 9:01:13 GMT
The more I watch the Olympics and see people like Gemma Gibbons and the K2 Canoeists, it makes me look at some of our footballers and wonder where it all went wrong. They talk a good game, prance around in flash new boots, get another tattoo or hair cut, offer their expert opinions on Twitter but don't deliver when it matters on the big stage. It's all talk. When you think about how much someone like Rooney or Tevez earns a week and see a person like Peter Wilson the shooter who moved abroad to get better, you realise what a bunch of pampered and selfish idiots footballers have become. It's almost embarassing to see how woeful we are in the big international tournaments. Couldn't agree more, in fact I made a very similar post the other day. These Olympics have really made me question my love of football. Not of OUFC because thats different its in the blood, but of top level football in England. The Premier league in particular is sport that has sold its soul.
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Post by Boogaloo on Aug 3, 2012 9:16:13 GMT
Totally agreed. This is what makes a proper sportsman. Dedication to get up at 5am every morning to do a couple of miles in the pool before heading off to do a full day's work. Working in a pub, as the shooting gold-medalist Peter Wilson had just to afford the entrance fees and travel expenses to competitions around the world.
These athletes put to shame idiots like Cashley Cole who complain about "How the f*ck am I am supposed to live on 55K a week?". Or Rooney publicly stating his intention to leave Man Utd, and then next day declaring his love for the club after signing a five year deal for £180K p/w
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Post by leysboy on Aug 3, 2012 11:03:58 GMT
Just got another bronze in the rowing mens Pairs.
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Post by leysboy on Aug 3, 2012 11:15:50 GMT
Mens Sculls rowing Bronze medal and now live Womens sculls gold medal brilliant!
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