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Post by Paul Cannell on Feb 11, 2011 13:06:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2011 14:05:37 GMT
you're havin' a giraffe aren't you?
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Post by foghornleghorn on Feb 11, 2011 15:12:39 GMT
So, the important bit is the Bible references, rather than the writer’s interpretation of it (again interpretations are interesting but of course not binding). It’s not universally accepted that Acts11 means everybody should eat all meat, but most agree it shouldn’t be a barrier in becoming a Christian. The Bible has many guidelines that can be ignored, observed or followed, i.e. the Bible says evangelists can marry but it’s probably best if they don’t. I’m not aware of any Christian group that says ‘you must eat kosher or else’, but there are many Christians that observe or follow kosher rules as they believe it is the preferred option. Kosher isn’t seen as a mandatory thing of salvation but many see it as an important choice. I disagree with the author’s statement ‘because we are no longer under the Law of Moses’. Jesus said he came to underpin The Law (of Moses), not replace it. The kosher debate is a bit of a distraction from the halal debate. The problem with halal isn’t so much that it isn’t kosher, it is that the process (often? occasionally?) involves an islamic blessing. Food offered up to idols is a completely different story. I think Acts 11 is saying you can eat what you want, its OK: 6 I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds. 7 Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’ 8 “I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’ 9 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’ 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again. Whilst Romans 14 is saying that individuals can regard some food as unclean. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval. Where in the Bible does it talk about evangelists marrying? Yes, its often just to avoid offence to other Christians (called weak Christians). Still, i'm weak Try 1st Corinthians for marriage (evangelist is probably the wrong word, but I was trying to avoid using 'priest' because that's confusing)
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Post by Lone Gunman on Feb 11, 2011 15:15:04 GMT
I think Acts 11 is saying you can eat what you want, its OK: 6 I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds. 7 Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’ 8 “I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’ 9 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’ 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again. Whilst Romans 14 is saying that individuals can regard some food as unclean. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval. Where in the Bible does it talk about evangelists marrying? Yes, its often just to avoid offence to other Christians (called weak Christians). Still, i'm weak Try 1st Corinthians for marriage (evangelist is probably the wrong word, but I was trying to avoid using 'priest' because that's confusing) Sorry, just couldn't help having a giggle at that!
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Post by foghornleghorn on Feb 11, 2011 15:22:31 GMT
The guys just written how he feels, just because he might not be as educated as you it doesn't mean he can't have his say, does it? Its not about him being less educated its about him being totally uneducated when it come to muslims. He has that whole ran about 'the school he went to as a kid' now serving halal meat, and in the same breath says the school is full of muslims. Isn't it logical for a school to serve halal meat when the majority of the kids are muslims? EDIT: To be fair to the guy I'm not sure if 'moslem' is not a valid alternative spelling. Arabic words tent to have four or five different spelling because the script is hard to transliterate into English. I must admit, whilst he does lack a certain eloquence I do find myself generally agreeing with the point. Why shouldn't muslims go for the vegetarian/pesceterian option? I'm a Christian living in a (culturally) Christian country and I've had to go pesceterian. I recognise that I'm a religious nutter and my interpretations are not the norm; it would be daft for me to expect the rest of the country to adapt around me. That said, I had to laugh at "My old school is now full of moslems. Not exclusively but still lots".
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Post by Lone Gunman on Feb 11, 2011 15:33:43 GMT
Its not about him being less educated its about him being totally uneducated when it come to muslims. He has that whole ran about 'the school he went to as a kid' now serving halal meat, and in the same breath says the school is full of muslims. Isn't it logical for a school to serve halal meat when the majority of the kids are muslims? EDIT: To be fair to the guy I'm not sure if 'moslem' is not a valid alternative spelling. Arabic words tent to have four or five different spelling because the script is hard to transliterate into English. I must admit, whilst he does lack a certain eloquence I do find myself generally agreeing with the point. Why shouldn't muslims go for the vegetarian/pesceterian option? I'm a Christian living in a (culturally) Christian country and I've had to go pesceterian. I recognise that I'm a religious nutter and my interpretations are not the norm; it would be daft for me to expect the rest of the country to adapt around me. That said, I had to laugh at "My old school is now full of moslems. Not exclusively but still lots". You've had to go pescetarian because halal was being served? Or non-kosher? I have to admit that despite being a Christian myself, and having a strong tradition of being 'evangelists' in my family I was unaware of the alleged prohibitions on pork and non-kosher/halal. Call be weak Christian if you like. As for the 'school full of moslems' bit. As I said in the post it sounds logical to me for the school to serve halal if the majority of the kids are muslim. The non-muslims should go pescetarian in that istuation. Just as, if the muslims were in a minority, halal should not be served as a matter of course.
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Post by foghornleghorn on Feb 11, 2011 15:50:47 GMT
I must admit, whilst he does lack a certain eloquence I do find myself generally agreeing with the point. Why shouldn't muslims go for the vegetarian/pesceterian option? I'm a Christian living in a (culturally) Christian country and I've had to go pesceterian. I recognise that I'm a religious nutter and my interpretations are not the norm; it would be daft for me to expect the rest of the country to adapt around me. That said, I had to laugh at "My old school is now full of moslems. Not exclusively but still lots". You've had to go pescetarian because halal was being served? Or non-kosher? I have to admit that despite being a Christian myself, and having a strong tradition of being 'evangelists' in my family I was unaware of the alleged prohibitions on pork and non-kosher/halal. Call be weak Christian if you like. As for the 'school full of moslems' bit. As I said in the post it sounds logical to me for the school to serve halal if the majority of the kids are muslim. The non-muslims should go pescetarian in that istuation. Just as, if the muslims were in a minority, halal should not be served as a matter of course. RE: halal was being served? Or non-kosher: both really, its not just the sourcing of kosher but the prep and cooking rules are incredibly complex so it's easier just to stay clear. RE prohibitions: its usually how OT the church is, some Christian denominations don't even call themselves Christian, and preferring to be referred to as Israelites. RE: school full of moslems: I just thought it was funny because the next sentence kinda implies 'full' isnt actually 'full'. You know how aggrieved people are prone to exaggerate? its probably just one family in the school! It's also worth remember that most local authorities source food supplies on behalf of their schools now so the food on offer is quite possibly beyond the control of the school and therefore no reflection on the mix of children there.
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Post by Lone Gunman on Feb 11, 2011 17:34:28 GMT
You've had to go pescetarian because halal was being served? Or non-kosher? I have to admit that despite being a Christian myself, and having a strong tradition of being 'evangelists' in my family I was unaware of the alleged prohibitions on pork and non-kosher/halal. Call be weak Christian if you like. As for the 'school full of moslems' bit. As I said in the post it sounds logical to me for the school to serve halal if the majority of the kids are muslim. The non-muslims should go pescetarian in that istuation. Just as, if the muslims were in a minority, halal should not be served as a matter of course. RE: halal was being served? Or non-kosher: both really, its not just the sourcing of kosher but the prep and cooking rules are incredibly complex so it's easier just to stay clear. RE prohibitions: its usually how OT the church is, some Christian denominations don't even call themselves Christian, and preferring to be referred to as Israelites. RE: school full of moslems: I just thought it was funny because the next sentence kinda implies 'full' isnt actually 'full'. You know how aggrieved people are prone to exaggerate? its probably just one family in the school! It's also worth remember that most local authorities source food supplies on behalf of their schools now so the food on offer is quite possibly beyond the control of the school and therefore no reflection on the mix of children there. I'm intrigued. Are you an Israelite then? You might be right about the sourcing of foods for schools but if a school really wanted to avoid halal I'm sure it could, Despite the fact matey might be exaggerating I think my point still stands. If a majority of kids in a school are muslim it makes sense for that school to serve halal and for the other denominations (and only those of them who have issues with it) to go veggie or pescetarian.
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Post by winchesterox on Feb 12, 2011 17:51:02 GMT
I think Acts 11 is saying you can eat what you want, its OK: 6 I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds. 7 Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’ 8 “I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’ 9 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’ 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again. Whilst Romans 14 is saying that individuals can regard some food as unclean. 13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval. Where in the Bible does it talk about evangelists marrying? Yes, its often just to avoid offence to other Christians (called weak Christians). Still, i'm weak Try 1st Corinthians for marriage (evangelist is probably the wrong word, but I was trying to avoid using 'priest' because that's confusing) Chapter 7? www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20corinthians%207&version=NIV
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Post by John Lennon on Feb 14, 2011 17:13:48 GMT
8pm tonight, Channel 4, Dispatches
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