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Cech
Feb 6, 2011 20:07:16 GMT
Post by baldy on Feb 6, 2011 20:07:16 GMT
Ive said it before - he's long finished as a top notch keeper.
That injury at Reading has ruined him. He basically turned his back on that cross today and was scared stiff to come and collect it and risk serious injury. If he comes and claims it then he might wipe a few players out and risk a clattering himself in the process but that was the keepers ball all day long
If I was Ancelotti I'd be fuming at that. It was cowardly and not good enough for someone probably milking the club for £100,000 a week.
Call it a day Cech because your time is up.
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Cech
Feb 6, 2011 20:11:25 GMT
Post by followtheox (the original) on Feb 6, 2011 20:11:25 GMT
Ive said it before - he's long finished as a top notch keeper. That injury at Reading has ruined him. He basically turned his back on that cross today and was scared stiff to come and collect it and risk serious injury. If he comes and claims it then he might wipe a few players out and risk a clattering himself in the process but that was the keepers ball all day long If I was Ancelotti I'd be fuming at that. It was cowardly and not good enough for someone probably milking the club for £100,000 a week. Call it a day Cech because your time is up. I agree with everything you have said apart from the cowardly bit. I think unless you have had the sort of injury he has its difficult to call it cowardly. I would call it more of a understandable fear than a cowardly one.
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Cech
Feb 6, 2011 20:22:54 GMT
Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 6, 2011 20:22:54 GMT
I like Cech as a person, I think it shows balls to come out after an injury like that and play at the top level for as long as your career will let you. He's never struck me as arrogant or particularly cowardly. However, he's just not a top notch keeper anymore and when you compare him to other keepers at the top, even mid table ones (not that that necessarily makes them any worse) such as Gordon, Harper, Friedel, Schwarzer, Begovic and so on, he looks weak. He might be able to cope in less physical leagues, I can imagine him being at home in the Spanish league for example, but I think his time as a class act in the Premiership has come more or less to an end, and has been for a fair while.
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Cech
Feb 6, 2011 21:08:52 GMT
Post by moobs on Feb 6, 2011 21:08:52 GMT
Ive said it before - he's long finished as a top notch keeper. That injury at Reading has ruined him. He basically turned his back on that cross today and was scared stiff to come and collect it and risk serious injury. If he comes and claims it then he might wipe a few players out and risk a clattering himself in the process but that was the keepers ball all day long If I was Ancelotti I'd be fuming at that. It was cowardly and not good enough for someone probably milking the club for £100,000 a week. Call it a day Cech because your time is up. That's odd, not so long back I posted a message about Shay Given, you tried to ridicule me saying if you asked 20 top coaches around Europe they would all chose van der Sar and Petr Cech.
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Cech
Feb 6, 2011 21:31:40 GMT
Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 6, 2011 21:31:40 GMT
Coaches might choose Cech over Given because he's not high profile enough. He also has similar problems, Given tends to stay a little rooted to his line and is significantly shorter. However, that's a bit superficial, Cech would not have coped behind the Newcastle defence of a few years ago, he would have crashed and burned, certainly in his current state. Given is just about the definition of the word tenacious, and I sense players look up to him a bit more than they do Cech. Certainly there's not enough difference between the two to warrant a ridiculing, even if Cech is better (which I will maintain he isn't), surely?
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Cech
Feb 6, 2011 21:35:50 GMT
Post by Belgian Yellow on Feb 6, 2011 21:35:50 GMT
He donates money to the John Radcliffe doesn't he?
Doesn't make him a good keeper though!
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Cech
Feb 6, 2011 22:33:40 GMT
Post by Lone Gunman on Feb 6, 2011 22:33:40 GMT
Ive said it before - he's long finished as a top notch keeper. That injury at Reading has ruined him. He basically turned his back on that cross today and was scared stiff to come and collect it and risk serious injury. If he comes and claims it then he might wipe a few players out and risk a clattering himself in the process but that was the keepers ball all day long If I was Ancelotti I'd be fuming at that. It was cowardly and not good enough for someone probably milking the club for £100,000 a week. Call it a day Cech because your time is up. Have to aree with you there baldy. The way he chickened out of that cross today was cringeworthy. Understandable when you have suffered such a bad injury in the past but his continuing reliance on that moronic scrum-cap which must offer no protection from another reading-style injury shows he simply has not, and never wil get over that injury. Shame for him and chelsea but IMO they should be looking for a replacement in the summer.
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 9:52:58 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 9:52:58 GMT
Cowardly isn't the right word, but you need to be fearless as a keeper and I agree he's lost that.
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 10:15:03 GMT
Post by baldy on Feb 7, 2011 10:15:03 GMT
Cowardly isn't the right word, but you need to be fearless as a keeper and I agree he's lost that. Slight contradiction there. Surely if he wasn't being fearless he was being cowardly, no ? I think he ducked the challenge and in a contact sport where its part of the game I can think of no better word than 'cowardly'. Simple, he didn't fancy it and that is the action of a coward.
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 10:49:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 10:49:43 GMT
yeah you're probably right it amounts to the same thing - but to me "cowardly" implies that he deliberately ducked the challenge, when its probably more a natural instinct for self-preservation - which you can't have as a keeper, you need to be a fearless nutter!
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 10:51:51 GMT
Post by SteMerritt on Feb 7, 2011 10:51:51 GMT
Surely if he wasn't being fearless he was being cowardly, no ? I don't think life is quite that black and white.
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 18:19:08 GMT
Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 7, 2011 18:19:08 GMT
Surely if he wasn't being fearless he was being cowardly, no ? I don't think life is quite that black and white. Precisely. Just as you can't say because it's not black, it must be white, you can't say it's not fearless, it must be cowardly. It may be more on the cowardly side than the fearless one, but that isn't enough in itself to say it's cowardly. I think to call someone who routinely risks his body by going in for dangerous saves in a very physical game cowardly is a little off.
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 22:20:51 GMT
Post by oxyellow on Feb 7, 2011 22:20:51 GMT
Harsh calling him a coward baldy, if it was a keeper at your beloved team man united who had suffered a serious injury like that, and then made that mistake in a big game like cech did on sunday, and then somebody else posted on here that they were a coward.. we would all know about it.
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 22:56:10 GMT
Post by baldy on Feb 7, 2011 22:56:10 GMT
Cech was most definitely a coward. If that injury effects him mentally that badly then he needs to do himself and his team mates a favour and retire. Watch it again, he half comes and then thinks '**** that ' and just flaps at it.
It was a pathetically embarrassing attempt and one that had 'coward' written all over it. What other word would any of you use to describe it ?
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 23:00:15 GMT
Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 7, 2011 23:00:15 GMT
Uncommitted
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 23:04:07 GMT
Post by baldy on Feb 7, 2011 23:04:07 GMT
£100,000 a week and he's 'uncommitted'. Replace 'coward' with 'utter disgrace' if that's the case.
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 23:08:06 GMT
Post by Belgian Yellow on Feb 7, 2011 23:08:06 GMT
£100,000 a week and he's 'uncommitted'. Replace 'coward' with 'utter disgrace' if that's the case. If we had a whip round and raised £100,000 could we kick your head in?
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 23:09:01 GMT
Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 7, 2011 23:09:01 GMT
Except that doesn't refer to his overall game, just to his ability to deal with crosses at most, and only really this one. Don't equivocate my word with meaning he's uncommitted in any other way, I'm simply describing his attempt to come for that cross. I agree he's indecisive about coming for other crosses (which is a better word because it lacks a double meaning), but that doesn't mean he's somehow uncommitted to the club and his play. I don't think there's any reason to call into question his love of the game or the club, just his ability. When it comes down to it, you don't turn down a £100,000 a week contract offer, so it's pretty difficult to blame him for that.
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 23:15:31 GMT
Post by Worcester Yellow on Feb 7, 2011 23:15:31 GMT
I'd have him as Clarkey's back up here any day!!
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 23:48:41 GMT
Post by Lone Gunman on Feb 7, 2011 23:48:41 GMT
£100,000 a week and he's 'uncommitted'. Replace 'coward' with 'utter disgrace' if that's the case. If we had a whip round and raised £100,000 could we kick your head in? I'll put a tenner in. To call cech a coward is pretty low IMO baldy, and just shows your double standards. If it was a man U player you'd be defending him to the hilt and you know it. What about old Solskjaer. I suppose he was a coward because he bottled it after getting all those injuries. He was too sh!t scared of injuring himself again or doing himself a long trm disservice he quit the game. Utter disgrace.
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Cech
Feb 7, 2011 23:58:33 GMT
Post by baldy on Feb 7, 2011 23:58:33 GMT
Why don't you answer me when I asked what word you would use to describe Cech on Sunday ?
To me, A player who clearly sees a ball, move towards it, sees half a dozen bodies to compete with and then back tracks and turns his head away from any confrontation is cowardly.
He is pathetic.
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Cech
Feb 8, 2011 0:04:47 GMT
Post by Lone Gunman on Feb 8, 2011 0:04:47 GMT
Why don't you answer me when I asked what word you would use to describe Cech on Sunday ? To me, A player who clearly sees a ball, move towards it, sees half a dozen bodies to compete with and then back tracks and turns his head away from any confrontation is cowardly. He is pathetic. Don't fish baldy. You ain't gonna catch tonight.
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Cech
Feb 8, 2011 9:47:34 GMT
Post by moobs on Feb 8, 2011 9:47:34 GMT
You can kick my head in for £100,000 but I think I might be worth a bit more than that? But I suppose we're in a recession....
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Cech
Feb 8, 2011 10:25:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 10:25:51 GMT
Why don't you answer me when I asked what word you would use to describe Cech on Sunday ? To me, A player who clearly sees a ball, move towards it, sees half a dozen bodies to compete with and then back tracks and turns his head away from any confrontation is cowardly. He is pathetic. Its only cowardly if he consciously made a decision not to risk it because he might get hurt - Goalkeepers have to make snap decisions whether to come for a ball or not and there are all kinds of reasons why they might decide to come or stay. Maybe he made an error of judgment and thought the defenders could deal with it - or maybe (which was what I was originally arguing) his instincts were to not come for it, which suggests that as you say, that his days as a top keeper are over. But theres a big difference between instinct and a conscious decision. I really don't understand you sometimes. Everyone unanimously says you're wrong to label him as a coward and then instead of correcting yourself, you dig yourself even deeper into a hole by calling him pathetic!
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Cech
Feb 8, 2011 13:18:08 GMT
Post by Lone Gunman on Feb 8, 2011 13:18:08 GMT
Why don't you answer me when I asked what word you would use to describe Cech on Sunday ? To me, A player who clearly sees a ball, move towards it, sees half a dozen bodies to compete with and then back tracks and turns his head away from any confrontation is cowardly. He is pathetic. Its only cowardly if he consciously made a decision not to risk it because he might get hurt - Goalkeepers have to make snap decisions whether to come for a ball or not and there are all kinds of reasons why they might decide to come or stay. Maybe he made an error of judgment and thought the defenders could deal with it - or maybe (which was what I was originally arguing) his instincts were to not come for it, which suggests that as you say, that his days as a top keeper are over. But theres a big difference between instinct and a conscious decision. I really don't understand you sometimes. Everyone unanimously says you're wrong to label him as a coward and then instead of correcting yourself, you dig yourself even deeper into a hole by calling him pathetic! That's how baldy operates. Once he has come down on one side of an argument he cannot modify his stance because to him it is a sign of weakness. Its he who is pathetic.
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Cech
Feb 8, 2011 13:48:23 GMT
Post by baldy on Feb 8, 2011 13:48:23 GMT
Why don't you answer me when I asked what word you would use to describe Cech on Sunday ? To me, A player who clearly sees a ball, move towards it, sees half a dozen bodies to compete with and then back tracks and turns his head away from any confrontation is cowardly. He is pathetic. Its only cowardly if he consciously made a decision not to risk it because he might get hurt - Goalkeepers have to make snap decisions whether to come for a ball or not and there are all kinds of reasons why they might decide to come or stay. Maybe he made an error of judgment and thought the defenders could deal with it - or maybe (which was what I was originally arguing) his instincts were to not come for it, which suggests that as you say, that his days as a top keeper are over. But theres a big difference between instinct and a conscious decision. I really don't understand you sometimes. Everyone unanimously says you're wrong to label him as a coward and then instead of correcting yourself, you dig yourself even deeper into a hole by calling him pathetic! I started this thread and that is my opinion. I'm not to know everyone would go against my view on this. For what its worth I work with a long time Chelsea season ticket holder and he also tells me that Cech is scared shitless to come for crosses in a crowded goal area and that ironic cheers ring around Stamford Bridge at almost every home game if he shows anything resembling bravery. He puts the blame firmly at Cechs door for how hesitant Terry has become, the defence have no confidence in him anymore and simply because he doesn't command his box like he once did prior to his injury. I'm told that Cech will be shipped out in the summer because he is on the wane, What is he ? 30 ? You dont get rid of a keeper at 30 if he's any good, he's probably two to three years away from his prime but fact is he's shot to bits and I would no longer rank him in the top 10 in the premiership. If you really think Cech was indecisive as opposed to afraid then you simply haven't seen it enough times. Watch it again, thats not indecisive thats a keeper thinking 'I'm going to get clobbered here'. Anyway, I'm entitled to my view and I differ greatly from almost everyone on here because I say what I see as opposed to jumping on bandwagons without really thinking it through and sometimes the truth doesn't make easy reading.
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Cech
Feb 8, 2011 13:56:38 GMT
Post by SteMerritt on Feb 8, 2011 13:56:38 GMT
Anyway, I'm entitled to my view and I differ greatly from almost everyone on here because I say what I see as opposed to jumping on bandwagons without really thinking it through and sometimes the truth doesn't make easy reading. Get over yourself.
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Cech
Feb 8, 2011 14:00:23 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 14:00:23 GMT
If you go back to the beginning I was basically agreeing with you except for the choice of words.
fair enough, I do think you're a good poster and get more abuse than you deserve!
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Cech
Feb 8, 2011 22:25:01 GMT
Post by longliveclarkey on Feb 8, 2011 22:25:01 GMT
Its only cowardly if he consciously made a decision not to risk it because he might get hurt - Goalkeepers have to make snap decisions whether to come for a ball or not and there are all kinds of reasons why they might decide to come or stay. Maybe he made an error of judgment and thought the defenders could deal with it - or maybe (which was what I was originally arguing) his instincts were to not come for it, which suggests that as you say, that his days as a top keeper are over. But theres a big difference between instinct and a conscious decision. I really don't understand you sometimes. Everyone unanimously says you're wrong to label him as a coward and then instead of correcting yourself, you dig yourself even deeper into a hole by calling him pathetic! I started this thread and that is my opinion. I'm not to know everyone would go against my view on this. For what its worth I work with a long time Chelsea season ticket holder and he also tells me that Cech is scared shitless to come for crosses in a crowded goal area and that ironic cheers ring around Stamford Bridge at almost every home game if he shows anything resembling bravery. He puts the blame firmly at Cechs door for how hesitant Terry has become, the defence have no confidence in him anymore and simply because he doesn't command his box like he once did prior to his injury. I'm told that Cech will be shipped out in the summer because he is on the wane, What is he ? 30 ? You dont get rid of a keeper at 30 if he's any good, he's probably two to three years away from his prime but fact is he's shot to bits and I would no longer rank him in the top 10 in the premiership. If you really think Cech was indecisive as opposed to afraid then you simply haven't seen it enough times. Watch it again, thats not indecisive thats a keeper thinking 'I'm going to get clobbered here'.Anyway, I'm entitled to my view and I differ greatly from almost everyone on here because I say what I see as opposed to jumping on bandwagons without really thinking it through and sometimes the truth doesn't make easy reading. If you really think Cech was afraid as opposed to indecisive then you simply haven't seen it enough times. Watch it again, thats not afraid thats a keeper thinking 'I'm not sure I got this right here'. It's very easy to making sweeping statements like that, and doesn't actually further your argument. I find it highly unlikely his problem that he was going to get clobbered. Do you really not think it is far, far more likely he didn't think he'd be able to get there ahead of the attacking players and confidently claim it? Even if he did see it as getting clobbered, that's not cowardly considered if he gets clobbered, he might well die. I don't think there's any such thing as being fearless if you think you're going to get clobbered in his situation - there's safe, and there's foolhardy. Don't get me wrong, that isn't a defence of him as a keeper. When he's regularly faced with that dilemma, it's easy to realise he simply lacks the possibility to play as well as every other keeper, and therefore, he should not be a top level keeper at the very least. It is, however, a defence of him in terms of not being cowardly. Earlier this year, many of us were slating Mitchell Cole for looking lazy on the football pitch, me included. If we had known he had a heart disease, would we have said those things? I don't think so. It's the same situation here, except we already know going for these crosses could equate to risking his life. I'm pretty sure you've apologised for your comments regarding Mitchell Cole, you can't have double standards here.
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