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Post by werthersoriginal on Nov 22, 2017 10:29:12 GMT
What was frustrating for me was, despite playing pretty well in the second half, we ended up with about 10 central midfield players, all playing nice tippy tappy football but trying to forge a way to goal through the central part of the pitch was always going to be impossible. No wingers. Then they pop up t'other end, sling in a cross from their first attack of the half, and bingo. We really really do need to get some wingers on the pitch/in the club. I realise we probably only have Napa as a winger who is currently fit however. This culminated with tiny Payne trying to dribble through a wall of four huge northerners standing shoulder to shoulder, while a huge empty space yawned on the right flank.
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Post by ZeroTheHero on Nov 22, 2017 10:38:56 GMT
I was convinced Napa would come on last night. Pace and width were what we were lacking, so even though it would be unfair to hope a young, returning loanee could have turned the game it would at least have provided something different. Instead we went even narrower and took Thomas off, who for all his faults can score a goal. In fact I thought the period before that double substitution was made was one of the few times we actually got into the game, and the changes disrupted that. Tinkering at the edges really though, the match was lost in the first 20 minutes.
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Post by RCYellowRC on Nov 22, 2017 10:41:26 GMT
One thing i should've mentioned, Obika has a glorious chance around the 75th minute at 3-1 a Ricardinho cross whipped in, he's placed it pretty much perfectly, for the keeper to pull off an insane save but he did parry it. Can't help but think if PEP had the balls to change formation and be bold, keeping Thomas on the pitch with Obika, something may have came from that considering how much of a nusense he is around the 6 yd box that would've made it game on undoubtedly. One last thing, the right side of defense is so vulnerable defensively, for me it has to be one of Martin and Tiendalli not both. And if we are going to be playing Martin the only system he would work in is the centre of a 3. With a lack of wingers at the moment surely a 532 would make sense at the moment, with Tiendalli and Ricardinho who is more of a wing back then a full back and both are better attacking then defending. The only issues with that would be Rothwell would have to be unreservedly dropped and then you have Mousinho,Martin,Williamson at the back. The pace in that 3 is non existent but it could offer a bit more solidarity in defense.
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Post by bigronaldo on Nov 22, 2017 10:44:04 GMT
Last night we were undone by a team that was set up to keep it tight. The only surprise was that we were able to get two goals against them. They made life difficult for us when we had possession by cutting off the outlets and we turned over the ball to them much too readily in the rush to move the ball on. Our lack of options for the man on the ball was troubling and the marking at the back was not great. On a footnote to last nights disappointment, just how good was Jack Payne?? He was superb wasn’t he? If only the rest of the team could give that much effort and determination then we would be right up there.
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Post by holdsteady on Nov 22, 2017 10:48:50 GMT
Last night we were undone by a team that was set up to keep it tight. The only surprise was that we were able to get two goals against them. They made life difficult for us when we had possession by cutting off the outlets and we turned over the ball to them much too readily in the rush to move the ball on. Our lack of options for the man on the ball was troubling and the marking at the back was not great. On a footnote to last nights disappointment, just how good was Jack Payne?? He was superb wasn’t he? If only the rest of the team could give that much effort and determination then we would be right up there. Set up to keep it tight? They were 3 up in 20 minutes!
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Post by oldman159 on Nov 22, 2017 10:56:44 GMT
Sadly yet another example of how easy the opposing teams pre match tactics brief at the Kashstad is. I will repeat it here so that any other L1 side yet to visit will have no doubts.
"Get in their face from the off. Give them no time on the ball and they will concede. Stay in their faces for 45 minutes minimum, and they will lose..."
simples.
With a lack of options on our part, it will always be so.
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Post by charliesghost on Nov 22, 2017 10:58:56 GMT
A very strange game to analyse. This will happen again this season because for me we are too naive and are lacking maturity. It wasn’t what the score suggested but they just did the basics and scored 4 very scrappy goals. We were never in the game apart from maybe 10 mins into the second half where if we could of got back to 2-3 who knows. It’s just frustrating to come out of a game at home and think we didn’t play too badly but got beat 2-4. We played some really good football again but opposition teams can score the most simple and basic goals against us. We are looking very open at the back and I think a lot of that is due to what’s in front of them. Ledson was miles away from dack, surely he should of been all over him! I think the last two games sum us up... we can hammer someone but also get it the other way. It will happen again, and again. We are a good footballing team.. just lack those vital ingredients to really push on and be consistent. I’m not too disappointed as this season I’m accepting it’s a work in progress.. we shall see after the “takeover” Oufc. I think that this is my biggest issue. If we were a 'work in progress ' as we were for a time under MApp, you would expect to see a few things: 1) a youthful progressive side who are going to be together a while and improve together. 2) slow but steady signs during matches that the team is learning together. Therefore a gradual improvement in performance. 3) signs that the manager is learning both about his squad and about the league. These three factors amount to what I would call a work in progress. Whereas what we seem to have is an ageing side, gradually getting worse (compare last night with how we played against another top-end side in Bradford two months ago), propped up by a quality loanee who certainly won't be here next season and a good goalie. We have a manager who appears unable or unwilling to adapt to the harsh physical demands of the league. So Who, or what, is actually progressing? Do we imagine that Ricardinho, Tiendalli, Mousinho, Henry, Martin, Obika and Thomas (average age 30) are of an age where they are going to get better by next August? Or that Payne and Mowatt are going to even be here next August? That only leaves us with Rothwell, Ledson, Ruffles and maybe Carroll and Xemi from last night's squad as something that could conceivably improve over the next twelve months. That is pretty thin gruel forca 'work in progress '. Put broadly, I don't understand the current strategy. Or, to put it more bluntly, I fear that there is no coherent strategy. And organisations that don't know what they are doing or why have a nasty habit of drifting onto the rocks. Does anybody actually know what our target is for thus season?
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Post by charliesghost on Nov 22, 2017 10:59:24 GMT
A very strange game to analyse. This will happen again this season because for me we are too naive and are lacking maturity. It wasn’t what the score suggested but they just did the basics and scored 4 very scrappy goals. We were never in the game apart from maybe 10 mins into the second half where if we could of got back to 2-3 who knows. It’s just frustrating to come out of a game at home and think we didn’t play too badly but got beat 2-4. We played some really good football again but opposition teams can score the most simple and basic goals against us. We are looking very open at the back and I think a lot of that is due to what’s in front of them. Ledson was miles away from dack, surely he should of been all over him! I think the last two games sum us up... we can hammer someone but also get it the other way. It will happen again, and again. We are a good footballing team.. just lack those vital ingredients to really push on and be consistent. I’m not too disappointed as this season I’m accepting it’s a work in progress.. we shall see after the “takeover” Oufc. I think that this is my biggest issue. If we were a 'work in progress ' as we were for a time under MApp, you would expect to see a few things: 1) a youthful progressive side who are going to be together a while and improve together. 2) slow but steady signs during matches that the team is learning together. Therefore a gradual improvement in performance. 3) signs that the manager is learning both about his squad and about the league. These three factors amount to what I would call a work in progress. Whereas what we seem to have is an ageing side, gradually getting worse (compare last night with how we played against another top-end side in Bradford two months ago), propped up by a quality loanee who certainly won't be here next season and a good goalie. We have a manager who appears unable or unwilling to adapt to the harsh physical demands of the league. So Who, or what, is actually progressing? Do we imagine that Ricardinho, Tiendalli, Mousinho, Henry, Martin, Obika and Thomas (average age 30) are of an age where they are going to get better by next August? Or that Payne and Mowatt are going to even be here next August? That only leaves us with Rothwell, Ledson, Ruffles and maybe Carroll and Xemi from last night's squad as something that could conceivably improve over the next twelve months. That is pretty thin gruel forca 'work in progress '. Put broadly, I don't understand the current strategy. Or, to put it more bluntly, I fear that there is no coherent strategy. And organisations that don't know what they are doing or why have a nasty habit of drifting onto the rocks. Does anybody actually know what our target is for thus season?
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Post by victor1986 on Nov 22, 2017 11:00:32 GMT
Blackburn were nothing special - not a patch on Sheff U & Bolton last season - anyway Charlton are the best footballing side we have entertained (in my opinion). Basically we were shambolic for the first 20 minutes - game then over. Everyone is right with their criticisms that Pep Clotet does not have another way of playing &, if he doesn't get more flexible, he will get us into deep trouble. Martin? Well he might get in a League 2 side & what about Ryan Ledson? We all reckon he is being tapped to leave in January, when, with Jack Payne likely to be recalled to his parent club we will all be really in the dumps. Free biscuits in the Manor Lounge last night were offset by having to remortgage again to buy a round of drinks afterwards! Happy days.
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Post by shosho on Nov 22, 2017 11:24:08 GMT
A very strange game to analyse. This will happen again this season because for me we are too naive and are lacking maturity. It wasn’t what the score suggested but they just did the basics and scored 4 very scrappy goals. We were never in the game apart from maybe 10 mins into the second half where if we could of got back to 2-3 who knows. It’s just frustrating to come out of a game at home and think we didn’t play too badly but got beat 2-4. We played some really good football again but opposition teams can score the most simple and basic goals against us. We are looking very open at the back and I think a lot of that is due to what’s in front of them. Ledson was miles away from dack, surely he should of been all over him! I think the last two games sum us up... we can hammer someone but also get it the other way. It will happen again, and again. We are a good footballing team.. just lack those vital ingredients to really push on and be consistent. I’m not too disappointed as this season I’m accepting it’s a work in progress.. we shall see after the “takeover” Oufc. I think that this is my biggest issue. If we were a 'work in progress ' as we were for a time under MApp, you would expect to see a few things: 1) a youthful progressive side who are going to be together a while and improve together. 2) slow but steady signs during matches that the team is learning together. Therefore a gradual improvement in performance. 3) signs that the manager is learning both about his squad and about the league. These three factors amount to what I would call a work in progress. Whereas what we seem to have is an ageing side, gradually getting worse (compare last night with how we played against another top-end side in Bradford two months ago), propped up by a quality loanee who certainly won't be here next season and a good goalie. We have a manager who appears unable or unwilling to adapt to the harsh physical demands of the league. So Who, or what, is actually progressing? Do we imagine that Ricardinho, Tiendalli, Mousinho, Henry, Martin, Obika and Thomas (average age 30) are of an age where they are going to get better by next August? Or that Payne and Mowatt are going to even be here next August? That only leaves us with Rothwell, Ledson, Ruffles and maybe Carroll and Xemi from last night's squad as something that could conceivably improve over the next twelve months. That is pretty thin gruel forca 'work in progress '. Put broadly, I don't understand the current strategy. Or, to put it more bluntly, I fear that there is no coherent strategy. And organisations that don't know what they are doing or why have a nasty habit of drifting onto the rocks. Does anybody actually know what our target is for thus season? We all love seeing the talented youngsters, however I'm not sure we can beat the recruitment team with the above. Martin was here with MApp Thomas was here with MApp Obika was wanted by MApp and started talks whilst he was here - www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/15396492.Jon_Obika_unfazed_at_making_rare_move_to_Oxford_United_from_Swindon_Town/Ricardinho was highlighted by the recruitment team - www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15452896.Oxford_United___s_recruitment_policy_unchanged_by_experienced_additions_____Pep_Clotet/?ref=arcI think both Henry and Mousinho are good additions...how many times were we asking for an experienced CB last season? Mousinho dropped a league and was Burton's captain...not a bad pedigree. That leaves Tiendalli who is clearly a stop gap.
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Post by CheltenhamYellow on Nov 22, 2017 11:27:53 GMT
Charlie; sometimes you talk some sense (but why do you start your posts with “This”? It’s like those irritating politicians who begin answers with “Now look...”) Pace and Power. In a nutshell. We lack both. Hence the comments about “men against boys” and getting “bullied”. Obika should have power but lacks pace. Arguably, Rothwell and Payne have pace, but both operate in the middle when we need it out wide. Which of our players have ever “bullied” the opposition this year? I like some of the football we play sometimes, I really do, but ultimately we’re just powder puff and much too easy to roll over.
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Post by highlights on Nov 22, 2017 12:08:53 GMT
That looks like end for Aaron Martin. I very much doubt we'll see him again when we have other fit CBs. Some awful errors.
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Post by charliesghost on Nov 22, 2017 12:28:02 GMT
I think that this is my biggest issue. If we were a 'work in progress ' as we were for a time under MApp, you would expect to see a few things: 1) a youthful progressive side who are going to be together a while and improve together. 2) slow but steady signs during matches that the team is learning together. Therefore a gradual improvement in performance. 3) signs that the manager is learning both about his squad and about the league. These three factors amount to what I would call a work in progress. Whereas what we seem to have is an ageing side, gradually getting worse (compare last night with how we played against another top-end side in Bradford two months ago), propped up by a quality loanee who certainly won't be here next season and a good goalie. We have a manager who appears unable or unwilling to adapt to the harsh physical demands of the league. So Who, or what, is actually progressing? Do we imagine that Ricardinho, Tiendalli, Mousinho, Henry, Martin, Obika and Thomas (average age 30) are of an age where they are going to get better by next August? Or that Payne and Mowatt are going to even be here next August? That only leaves us with Rothwell, Ledson, Ruffles and maybe Carroll and Xemi from last night's squad as something that could conceivably improve over the next twelve months. That is pretty thin gruel forca 'work in progress '. Put broadly, I don't understand the current strategy. Or, to put it more bluntly, I fear that there is no coherent strategy. And organisations that don't know what they are doing or why have a nasty habit of drifting onto the rocks. Does anybody actually know what our target is for thus season? We all love seeing the talented youngsters, however I'm not sure we can beat the recruitment team with the above. Martin was here with MApp Thomas was here with MApp Obika was wanted by MApp and started talks whilst he was here - www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/15396492.Jon_Obika_unfazed_at_making_rare_move_to_Oxford_United_from_Swindon_Town/Ricardinho was highlighted by the recruitment team - www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15452896.Oxford_United___s_recruitment_policy_unchanged_by_experienced_additions_____Pep_Clotet/?ref=arcI think both Henry and Mousinho are good additions...how many times were we asking for an experienced CB last season? Mousinho dropped a league and was Burton's captain...not a bad pedigree. That leaves Tiendalli who is clearly a stop gap. I'm not beating anyone with anything, just saying that I don't see us as a 'work in progress ' and don't understand the current plan. It's fine to sign a load of talented but ageing players to get one last big season out of them to achieve a short-term goal. But if you are trying to achieve something in the future, why have bed blockers occupying slots that younger players are going to need experience in? After his excellent form back end of last season this should be a big year for Carroll. But he cant even get into a defence with multiple injuries that is leaking lots of goals. Playing Carroll, Xemi and Napa on a regular basis would qualify us to be a work in progress. Not so Ricardinho, Tiendalli, Mousinho, Henry and loanees.
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Post by huntezoufc on Nov 22, 2017 12:31:52 GMT
Charlie it seems like you disagree with everything I say! The problem we all have is there has been complete change at the club whether we like it or not.. that’s the situation. 14+ new players or so and a new manager who has taken his first managerial job. I remember when Mapp came in and a lot of supporters wanted him out! With what’s going on at the club it’s very difficult for him to recruit the necessary quality we need. I do agree that the policy of getting in young players seems to have changed this season. We do have 9 players injured also! There seems to be a lot of unrealistic expectations with many supporters, I for one want us to fly up the divisions and beat everybody but when our right back is penned in the corner with two men and a guy behind me is shouting “turn them turn them” I mean... who’s he watching other than Oxford.. PSG? We won’t go up and we won’t go down. It’s that kind of season.
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Post by ox4eva on Nov 22, 2017 12:35:35 GMT
We have no commanding CB, we don't have someone in the middle of the park that can put a foot in and win some 50/50s and we have no wide pace, we have no strong fast physical presence up front.
To be successful at this level you need all these things!
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Post by 1OUFC on Nov 22, 2017 12:46:22 GMT
That looks like end for Aaron Martin. I very much doubt we'll see him again when we have other fit CBs. Some awful errors. Totally awful performance, gifted them a goal, by tripping up. He was like a lost circus clown for most of the game when he wasn’t giving them possession. Should never even reach the bench when injuries return.
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Post by berliner on Nov 22, 2017 12:56:56 GMT
That looks like end for Aaron Martin. I very much doubt we'll see him again when we have other fit CBs. Some awful errors. Sadly, with an average of two of our CBs having a preponderance for a twinge on any given weekend, we will most certainly be seeing Aaron Martin again.
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Post by RCYellowRC on Nov 22, 2017 13:04:34 GMT
That looks like end for Aaron Martin. I very much doubt we'll see him again when we have other fit CBs. Some awful errors. Sadly, with an average of two of our CBs having a preponderance for a twinge on any given weekend, we will most certainly be seeing Aaron Martin again. Raglan just needs match fitness and then he's ready to play. Would like to see him in the team by new year, that may be unrealistic though.
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Post by ciaranjonlucas on Nov 22, 2017 13:13:35 GMT
Sadly, with an average of two of our CBs having a preponderance for a twinge on any given weekend, we will most certainly be seeing Aaron Martin again. Raglan just needs match fitness and then he's ready to play. Would like to see him in the team by new year, that may be unrealistic though. Went to watch Wrexham V Solihull Moore last night, as due to a move Wrexham is now my nearest team and a couple of my friends have season tickets. Fiacre Kelleher played the full 90 minutes and looked very good. He headed everything which perhaps isn't surprising given his height. The thing that most surprised me was how comfortable he looked on the ball. Can't remember him giving it away and he even carried the ball out of defence on occasion. For my money he was one of our better defenders in pre-season and I saw it as the easyoption loaning him out instead of Aaron Martin, who lets be honest has never done anything to suggest he looks good enough for us.
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Post by tonto on Nov 22, 2017 14:18:40 GMT
Well I think one change is definitely needed and that is that Yellowriver should start the next matchday thread! I
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Post by RCYellowRC on Nov 22, 2017 14:19:51 GMT
Well I think one change is definitely needed and that is that Yellowriver should start the next matchday thread! I One thing I'll never do again, if I do expect a loss. I'll stay away from it for now.
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Post by Yellow River on Nov 22, 2017 15:13:21 GMT
That looks like end for Aaron Martin. I very much doubt we'll see him again when we have other fit CBs. Some awful errors. In a way a feel a bit sorry for him, no one makes a mistake on purpose, but there can be no sentiment in professional football. As a former central defender myself albeit at a lower level and a good few years ago, I was of the view "if in doubt, boot it out"
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Post by bigfella72 on Nov 22, 2017 15:23:58 GMT
That looks like end for Aaron Martin. I very much doubt we'll see him again when we have other fit CBs. Some awful errors. In a way a feel a bit sorry for him, no one makes a mistake on purpose, but there can be no sentiment in professional football. As a former central defender myself albeit at a lower level and a good few years ago, I was of the view "if in doubt, boot it out" Also “don’t let it bounce”
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Post by chippsy on Nov 22, 2017 17:40:40 GMT
Because at the end of the day it’s just a bloody game of football. We enjoy the highs, ride the lows, get angry, depressed, frustrated, irate, etc etc, but it’s still just a game of football. That's how I know people have nothing to offer, when they stop trying to talk about the game and dismiss it as "just football". That's when I know nobody has any defence or explanation for what's going on out on the pitch, when they shift the conversation to downplaying the entire sport. Of course it's "just football". I'm not going to sit at my job all day today crying and agonising, watching the goals on repeat and moving magnetic discs around a whiteboard to see where things went wrong. But the thing is... this is a football forum, and this is the matches section of that forum. So, I hate to break it to you, but most people are here to discuss the match and the state of general play in recent games. And, what's even weirder, is that some people are gonna use it for just that. In fact, coming on here to essentially wave people away and go "Alright, alright, get moving you lot, it's only football" is a bit strange. Why even bother posting? It's only football. It doesn't matter. Thing is, though, I like many others pay over £400 a year for my ST, and spend probably double that again on away tickets and travel. I reckon my total spend on OUFC every season is £1500 minimum when you factor in travel and so forth. So with that in mind, if I want to have a say on the team or the club, on a forum and in a specific section that exists solely for that purpose and reason, I'm going to. And if you don't like it, that's absolutely fine. Because it's JUST a forum, and this is JUST football. You asked a question and I gave you my answer because you “really really wanted to know” You don’t have to like my answer but I don’t see why that leads you to say don’t bother posting. Are you implying that I should only post if I am of a similar mindset to you? We are a Forrest Gump team this season. I’ve resigned myself to accept that. It doesn’t mean that I don’t care, but at the same time I’m pretty relaxed about it. I’ve decided that I’m not going to get too down hearted and start panicking when we lose, and I will really enjoy the days when we win. Some of the football this season has been superb and some down right embarrassing. I think we are a mid table team this year simply because we lack any consistency. I’m not sure how that is going to change until all the off the field issues are settled and we ride a new wave of optimism. So for now it is what it is.... it’s a funny old game after all. Roll on Southend.... one of our biggest boggie teams ever!, I predict an oxford win3-1, life really is like a box of chocolates. 😁
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Post by yellowbow on Nov 22, 2017 17:57:42 GMT
Trouble is it's all ticketyboo until we suddenly find ourselves having to win say 4 of the last 8 games - which could happen - and then it's very much squeaky bum time! Best we find a way to get the points on the board asap if at all possible.
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Post by 1OUFC on Nov 22, 2017 18:26:47 GMT
Charlie it seems like you disagree with everything I say! The problem we all have is there has been complete change at the club whether we like it or not.. that’s the situation. 14+ new players or so and a new manager who has taken his first managerial job. I remember when Mapp came in and a lot of supporters wanted him out! With what’s going on at the club it’s very difficult for him to recruit the necessary quality we need. I do agree that the policy of getting in young players seems to have changed this season. We do have 9 players injured also! There seems to be a lot of unrealistic expectations with many supporters, I for one want us to fly up the divisions and beat everybody but when our right back is penned in the corner with two men and a guy behind me is shouting “turn them turn them” I mean... who’s he watching other than Oxford.. PSG? We won’t go up and we won’t go down. It’s that kind of season. Sorry that's nonsense. The reason quality wasn't recruited is simply because slippery, after saying money was available for transfers, seemingly didn't release the purse strings.
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Post by carefreeoufc on Nov 22, 2017 20:12:50 GMT
I wouldn’t say we are being particularly consistent. I’d say our form is consistently poor with the odd freak result (Plymouth etc).
I’m not going to go as far as saying we’re going to end up in a relegation battle but I’ll be happy with mid table if that’s where we end up.
It will require some investment in January on the right types of players (who can hit the ground running) and will require us keeping hold of Payne.
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Post by uptheus on Nov 22, 2017 20:27:06 GMT
Biggest positive....the Ultras did not stop singing, even when we went 3-0 down in 20 mins. Well done chaps. Embarrassing if you ask me. I like their determination and will to try and make an atmosphere, but it just doesn't work. It feels forced rather than natural, and moving to the far top corner as just made it worse! And why oh why don't they just sing 'come on you yellows' followed by 'yellows, yellows' loud and proud on corners etc rather than some other obscure song!
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Post by huntezoufc on Nov 22, 2017 20:31:13 GMT
Charlie it seems like you disagree with everything I say! The problem we all have is there has been complete change at the club whether we like it or not.. that’s the situation. 14+ new players or so and a new manager who has taken his first managerial job. I remember when Mapp came in and a lot of supporters wanted him out! With what’s going on at the club it’s very difficult for him to recruit the necessary quality we need. I do agree that the policy of getting in young players seems to have changed this season. We do have 9 players injured also! There seems to be a lot of unrealistic expectations with many supporters, I for one want us to fly up the divisions and beat everybody but when our right back is penned in the corner with two men and a guy behind me is shouting “turn them turn them” I mean... who’s he watching other than Oxford.. PSG? We won’t go up and we won’t go down. It’s that kind of season. Sorry that's nonsense. The reason quality wasn't recruited is simply because slippery, after saying money was available for transfers, seemingly didn't release the purse strings. So you are in the know with the current situation are you? DE gave all that s**t about season ticket prices and backing the club etc.. then things changed pretty drastically. If you think clotet has been given money to spend you are deluded!
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Post by ian on Nov 22, 2017 20:43:54 GMT
The money was there, but the players were not available and Pep wasn't sure what he needed to add to the squad.
So... Let's see what happens in January.
It's better to wait for the right player than spend the money on someone with the wrong DNA...
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