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Post by KLYellow on Nov 3, 2017 1:23:20 GMT
Personally I don't see Brexit going ahead. But scaringly a lot of companies have set dates by which they will commit to moving out of the UK whether Brexit happens or not. Can we get a list of these companies? No, not public information. Although some information is already in the public domain. How many are you talking about? 3? 300? Tens of thousands. What do you mean by 'moving out'? Will they be removing workforces or just changing head office? Both. What are the dates? As it takes time, some have set deadlines 12-18 months before Brexit If they leave the country 'whether Brexit happens or not', then why are they leaving? The uncertainty and need for continuation of their businesses. Project fear is indeed alive and well. Sent from my XIAOMI NOTE PRO using telepathy
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Post by helsinkiyellow on Nov 3, 2017 6:13:24 GMT
Nonsense. 14% of German cars are sold to UK. A 14% drop in sales would be significant, most likely leading to production capacity reductions e.g. redundancies. I think a complete "collapse" is an exaggeration, BMW and Mercedes-Benz wouldn't be bankrupted by this. Anyway, in the event of a no-deal, WTO rules would result in tariffs making das autos more expensive. Sales would drop but not stop completely. I'd be more worried about the retaliatory tariffs applied on the complex car manufacturing and supply chain - could make it completely uneconomical to make cars in UK. The fact that you think the UK has no auto industry confirms you really don't have a clue what's going on out there. I'm sure your finger is conveniently right on the pulse. Why aren't you doing the negotiations if you're so clued up? So tariffs are non-optional? Michel Barnier and his team are comfortably in control, I'm not sure they require my services! If we "crash out without a deal" then we would revert to WTO rules (my current understanding anyway). Which would mean tariffs on many goods and services. You can't just pick and choose which tariffs to implement, these are standard and governed by the WTO (so much for taking back control!). To get around the tariffs involves doing a trade deal.
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Post by saddletramp on Nov 3, 2017 7:38:28 GMT
The EU are very quiet about legally elected officials being arrested for organising a referendum in Catalonia,then being jailed without bail. I suppose being a non elected Politburo,they are 100% behind the Spanish government,in fact given the chance they would jail Nigel Farage and all other "Leavers" for using the right of free speech.
Any chance of Nicola Sturgeon going to Spain on her hols next year ? We could inform Madrid that Scottish Independence would strengthen Catalonia's case and get her locked up without trial.
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Post by bashamwonderland on Nov 3, 2017 7:39:43 GMT
I'm sure your finger is conveniently right on the pulse. Why aren't you doing the negotiations if you're so clued up? So tariffs are non-optional? Michel Barnier and his team are comfortably in control, I'm not sure they require my services! If we "crash out without a deal" then we would revert to WTO rules (my current understanding anyway). Which would mean tariffs on many goods and services. You can't just pick and choose which tariffs to implement, these are standard and governed by the WTO (so much for taking back control!). To get around the tariffs involves doing a trade deal. If they are comfortably in control then why aren't we paying the Xbillion that they demand? It's pretty obvious that we won't be paying anything like what they are demanding. Yes tariffs. What's so bad about tariffs? We can set them as we wish and they are reciprocal. It's not like we wouldn't also be benefiting from them. For those markets where we enjoy a trade surplus (for example the EU?) the likely low tariffs will benefit us. For those who don't want tariffs, then we make a trade deal. Something the EU aren't very good at organising. They'll soon get good at it if 14% of German car sales depend on it, among the other hundreds of billions they sell to us.
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Post by bashamwonderland on Nov 3, 2017 7:48:25 GMT
Can we get a list of these companies? No, not public information. Although some information is already in the public domain. How many are you talking about? 3? 300? Tens of thousands. What do you mean by 'moving out'? Will they be removing workforces or just changing head office? Both. What are the dates? As it takes time, some have set deadlines 12-18 months before Brexit If they leave the country 'whether Brexit happens or not', then why are they leaving? The uncertainty and need for continuation of their businesses. Project fear is indeed alive and well. Sent from my XIAOMI NOTE PRO using telepathy hopefilly you'll excuse me for not believing you due to lack of source.
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Post by ag on Nov 3, 2017 8:35:25 GMT
Michel Barnier and his team are comfortably in control, I'm not sure they require my services! If we "crash out without a deal" then we would revert to WTO rules (my current understanding anyway). Which would mean tariffs on many goods and services. You can't just pick and choose which tariffs to implement, these are standard and governed by the WTO (so much for taking back control!). To get around the tariffs involves doing a trade deal. If they are comfortably in control then why aren't we paying the Xbillion that they demand? It's pretty obvious that we won't be paying anything like what they are demanding. Yes tariffs. What's so bad about tariffs? We can set them as we wish and they are reciprocal. It's not like we wouldn't also be benefiting from them. For those markets where we enjoy a trade surplus (for example the EU?) the likely low tariffs will benefit us. For those who don't want tariffs, then we make a trade deal. Something the EU aren't very good at organising. They'll soon get good at it if 14% of German car sales depend on it, among the other hundreds of billions they sell to us. We don't make things much any more. Most of the companies that do still make things are foreign-owned and need tariff free access to the EU for their supply chain and for exports. They can move to the EU. As BMW are likely to do. Our primary earnings are through services for which we currently have no deal. And no prospect of one.
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Post by helsinkiyellow on Nov 3, 2017 9:41:53 GMT
The EU are very quiet about legally elected officials being arrested for organising a referendum in Catalonia,then being jailed without bail. I suppose being a non elected Politburo,they are 100% behind the Spanish government,in fact given the chance they would jail Nigel Farage and all other "Leavers" for using the right of free speech. Any chance of Nicola Sturgeon going to Spain on her hols next year ? We could inform Madrid that Scottish Independence would strengthen Catalonia's case and get her locked up without trial. I can't comment too much on Spanish domestic politics but my understanding is that an independent Catalonia (like Scotland) would seek EU membership. Their independence cause cannot be compared to Farage's agenda.
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Post by helsinkiyellow on Nov 3, 2017 9:57:42 GMT
Michel Barnier and his team are comfortably in control, I'm not sure they require my services! If we "crash out without a deal" then we would revert to WTO rules (my current understanding anyway). Which would mean tariffs on many goods and services. You can't just pick and choose which tariffs to implement, these are standard and governed by the WTO (so much for taking back control!). To get around the tariffs involves doing a trade deal. For those who don't want tariffs, then we make a trade deal. Something the EU aren't very good at organising. They'll soon get good at it if 14% of German car sales depend on it, among the other hundreds of billions they sell to us. The EU is the world's biggest free-trade area made up of 27/28 countries. Yet you are suggesting this is an area in which it has failed?
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Post by whingit on Nov 3, 2017 10:20:02 GMT
The EU are very quiet about legally elected officials being arrested for organising a referendum in Catalonia,then being jailed without bail. I suppose being a non elected Politburo,they are 100% behind the Spanish government,in fact given the chance they would jail Nigel Farage and all other "Leavers" for using the right of free speech. Any chance of Nicola Sturgeon going to Spain on her hols next year ? We could inform Madrid that Scottish Independence would strengthen Catalonia's case and get her locked up without trial. Why would the EU be getting involved in the domestic affairs of a sovereign nation? It's funny that the same people who whinge and moan about how powerful and meddling the EU is also moan when the EU doesn't get involved.
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Post by whingit on Nov 3, 2017 10:28:19 GMT
This is what we are dealing with here! Despite given strong evidence to the countary, the swivel-eyed extreme Brexiteer will just bat it off as nonesense. Simply incapable of any critical thinking or self-reflection. No thought to the mere possibility that the provider of their information (The Sun, Daily Mail) could be biased and subsequently their opinion may not be 100% accurate. It's the arrogance that really gets my goat. "we" are all mistaken etc. His Daily Mail soundbites were corrected 18 months ago. He won't learn, but he seriously thinks "we" are all like him. It's not arrogance. There's a psychological term that I can't remember, but he genuinely believes what he believes and no amount of evidence will change that because the evidence is not what he believes so it isn't evidence.
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Post by whingit on Nov 3, 2017 10:30:41 GMT
I see in the Sunday papers moves are afoot to have an EU Chancellor of the Exchequer. More power to the centre of government. That was always the real aim of the EU. one state, one country, one people Are you aware of vetoes?
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Post by KLYellow on Nov 3, 2017 13:12:43 GMT
Sent from my XIAOMI NOTE PRO using telepathy hopefilly you'll excuse me for not believing you due to lack of source. Sure, no worries.
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Post by peterdev on Nov 3, 2017 21:25:02 GMT
Vetoes? I am But the EU will be more powerful less democratic. It’s in their genes
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Post by foley on Nov 3, 2017 22:13:16 GMT
The EU view on the Catalan issue is interesting...
Let's pull together and not address the issue.
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Post by flean on Nov 4, 2017 17:58:37 GMT
Vetoes? I am But the EU will be more powerful less democratic. It’s in their genes Is there a Brexiteer's phrase book that you get these nuggets from?
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Post by peterdev on Nov 5, 2017 10:11:52 GMT
Catalonia I think used to be independent but Spain doesn't recognise that. Funny how it it thinks Gibraltar should belong to them but doesn't think Tenerife should be independent even though it is 2000 miles away. The Canarians I've found don't like the Spanish too much. I wonder why
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Post by Paul Cannell on Nov 5, 2017 10:49:29 GMT
I think Spain does recognise that Catalonia used to be independent, just like Leon and various other bits. It is enforcing a constitution that Catalonia sleep-walked into after Franco ended.
I presume the reason you don't feel the 'UK' should grant independence to Las Malvinas (which, being in the South Atlantic, are further away than Tenerife is from Spain. I felt as had to say that as you probably think the Falklands are a few miles east of Lewis) is that we had the foresight to extirpate the autochthonous population and replace them with people being displaced from the 'UK' countryside by mechanisation of farming and the formation of great estates, just like we tried in Ulster.
I don't know what made me post that.
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Post by peterdev on Nov 6, 2017 21:04:06 GMT
That's a fair point Paul about the Falklands, which is occupied by British people and was wanted by Argentina probably for the oil reserves. I'll watch the situation with Catalonia with a great deal of interest, as I know a number of Spanish and Catalonians.
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Post by flean on Nov 6, 2017 21:58:08 GMT
That's a fair point Paul about the Falklands, which is occupied by British people and was wanted by Argentina probably for the oil reserves. I'll watch the situation with Catalonia with a great deal of interest, as I know a number of Spanish and Catalonians. Do you think the Falklands has always been occupied by British people?
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Post by helsinkiyellow on Nov 14, 2017 7:35:49 GMT
Staunch Brexiteer John Redwood MP, who has a £180,000 second job as chief global strategist for Charles Stanley, warns investors to get their money out of the UK. This is a guy who is advises for the UK to go for hardest Brexit. www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/john-redwood-brexit_uk_5a08cb50e4b0e37d2f3833c4 Traitor! I'm sure he and his clients will profit very nicely when the UK economy hits the fan.
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Post by ag on Nov 15, 2017 10:28:35 GMT
Wrong thread
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Post by saddletramp on Nov 20, 2017 8:18:04 GMT
For those who don't want tariffs, then we make a trade deal. Something the EU aren't very good at organising. They'll soon get good at it if 14% of German car sales depend on it, among the other hundreds of billions they sell to us. The EU is the world's biggest free-trade area made up of 27/28 countries. Yet you are suggesting this is an area in which it has failed? www.express.co.uk/news/world/880429/nantes-france-riots-protest-macron-reforms
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Post by Yellow River on Nov 22, 2017 10:41:05 GMT
Former Shadow Cabinet member Ian Murray tabled an amendment to a government bill which would have prevented duties being charged on imports to the UK after the country quits the EU.
Remain-backing Labour MPs, as well as some Conservatives, voted for the move in the Commons the other evening.
However, the amendment was defeated by 311-76 after Labour MPs were whipped to vote with the Government against it.
I don't understand why Labour's frontbench ordered MPs to vote against a bid to keep the UK in the single market and customs union, Corbyn and McDonald's position on Brexit is very confusing.
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Post by flean on Nov 23, 2017 11:44:40 GMT
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Post by flean on Nov 26, 2017 15:10:48 GMT
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Post by Marked Ox on Nov 26, 2017 17:59:42 GMT
I'm for remain (which obviously isn't happening) but I agree with Liam Fox. The Irish border can't be agreed or any assurances made until a fair idea of what trade deal, if any, is likely. As the noises about the Customs union/single market coming from the Irish ministers and Irish EU reps they can bugger off. If we demanded they follow a particular policy direction/choice they would rightly tell us to p*ss off and quite reasonably that works the other way. Also playing hardball with the start date of trade negotiations as they are threatening would also badly hurt their own economy.
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Post by flean on Nov 26, 2017 19:41:32 GMT
I'm for remain (which obviously isn't happening) but I agree with Liam Fox. The Irish border can't be agreed or any assurances made until a fair idea of what trade deal, if any, is likely. As the noises about the Customs union/single market coming from the Irish ministers and Irish EU reps they can bugger off. If we demanded they follow a particular policy direction/choice they would rightly tell us to p*ss off and quite reasonably that works the other way. Also playing hardball with the start date of trade negotiations as they are threatening would also badly hurt their own economy. Doesn't really sound like you're for staying in the EU tbh The EU made it clear from the start... Irish Border, people and divorce bill before any talk of trade. Why should that change? The UK need a trade deal much more than the EU, so it's in the UK's interests to finally get this rolling.
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Post by Marked Ox on Nov 26, 2017 22:56:36 GMT
I'm for remain (which obviously isn't happening) but I agree with Liam Fox. The Irish border can't be agreed or any assurances made until a fair idea of what trade deal, if any, is likely. As the noises about the Customs union/single market coming from the Irish ministers and Irish EU reps they can bugger off. If we demanded they follow a particular policy direction/choice they would rightly tell us to p*ss off and quite reasonably that works the other way. Also playing hardball with the start date of trade negotiations as they are threatening would also badly hurt their own economy. Doesn't really sound like you're for staying in the EU tbh The EU made it clear from the start... Irish Border, people and divorce bill before any talk of trade. Why should that change? The UK need a trade deal much more than the EU, so it's in the UK's interests to finally get this rolling. The problem with the EU position though is that the Irish border issue and trade are so interlinked and until they grasp this they are actually the ones causing the problem in the talks. The UK Govt should make an offer but add the caveat that it is all dependent on any trade deal. If Ireland don't like it, tough as they would have to cut their nose off to spite their face with the economy and p*ss off their own citizens in the process.
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Post by flean on Nov 27, 2017 8:32:05 GMT
Doesn't really sound like you're for staying in the EU tbh The EU made it clear from the start... Irish Border, people and divorce bill before any talk of trade. Why should that change? The UK need a trade deal much more than the EU, so it's in the UK's interests to finally get this rolling. The problem with the EU position though is that the Irish border issue and trade are so interlinked and until they grasp this they are actually the ones causing the problem in the talks. The UK Govt should make an offer but add the caveat that it is all dependent on any trade deal. If Ireland don't like it, tough as they would have to cut their nose off to spite their face with the economy and p*ss off their own citizens in the process. The problem is though that 27 countries all agreed on a tactic. Made it 100% clear from the start. Now it's their problem that the 3rd biggest one that's flouncing off in a huff are so confused they don't know how to flounce off?
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Post by Marked Ox on Nov 27, 2017 10:21:04 GMT
The problem with the EU position though is that the Irish border issue and trade are so interlinked and until they grasp this they are actually the ones causing the problem in the talks. The UK Govt should make an offer but add the caveat that it is all dependent on any trade deal. If Ireland don't like it, tough as they would have to cut their nose off to spite their face with the economy and p*ss off their own citizens in the process. The problem is though that 27 countries all agreed on a tactic. Made it 100% clear from the start. Now it's their problem that the 3rd biggest one that's flouncing off in a huff are so confused they don't know how to flounce off? Yes but Ireland are now making demands that are unacceptable and moving the goalposts. In the same spirit I reckon our Govt should demand that Ireland raise their Corporation Tax to 35% and pay reparations for allowing the IRA to operate from its territory.
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