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Post by neville60 on May 3, 2017 10:58:56 GMT
He does annoy me,sometime with predictable passing out of defence, he mostly just kicks it out to Skars so he can pass it on. He puts himself in trouble by not thinking ahead of the game. But he is still young and learning,he IMO does remind me of Mark Wright,and look what he achieved playing. I would like him to stay another season, I think he has learnt alot,and will improve. Mark Wright !!!!!!!!! Mark Wright played 10 games for Oxford,he was playing First division football(PL) at 18,made his England debut at 21. And you compare a journeyman 25 year old Division 3 player with a man with 45 England caps(and scored in the WC finals) ? They were also completely different type of players,Mark Wright was a footballing centre half,a poor mans Rio Ferdinand,Dunks is a lump. I was talking about when he was actually playing at Oxford, just a memory I had it is only an opinion. I do recall how he was not the best at controlling the ball, and panicking when in possession much the same as Dunkley does.Mark may have been lucky to have had a better start with the couching he got to begin with as to where Dunley started, I don't know. I still feel Dunley may turn out to be a late developer in the game. Only an opinion and reviewing very old memories sorry.
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Post by tatabanya on May 3, 2017 11:07:36 GMT
Still think he is a player that will continue to improve the older he gets. No reason why he won't hit career heights into his early 30s, when he irons out the naive mistakes and learns how to make the most of his natural talent. Sorry,again i don't understand this statement ? Why would a footballer who these days gets picked up at 7 or 8,play football for 20/25 years,play 600/700 professional games,hit career heights in their early 30s? WTF have they been doing in training/matches for 12 or so years as a pro ? You say "when he irons out the naive mistakes" well he has been a pro footballer for 5 or so years,he is twenty five,why will it take another 5/6 years to iron out these mistakes ? DE and MApp in "who do we want to keep" talks, DE "Hmm not sure about Dunks?" MApp "Just you wait,give him 5 or 6 years and you will see the real Chey" DE "Ok, 7 year contract" "By the way Micky boy,what do you do in training ?" Are you being deliberately obtuse? Players improve dependent on a range of factors. This can range from the quality of coaching, the standard of the players they play with and the level of football that they play at. You mention Stones and Keane which, frankly, are two pretty silly comparisons. But, would Stones be at the level he is at now if he had stayed at Barnsley? Would Keane if he had sat on the bench at Manchester United instead of going to play mens football at Burnley? Similarly, Dunkley is now a far far better player for coming to Oxford than if he had stayed at Kidderminster. His progress would, in all likelihood, continue if he were to stay at Oxford in a progressive team. This wouldn't be the case with all players but he has the raw materials to play at a higher level and has the potential to further improve. This isn't football manager. Players don't just stop getting better at 25. When Matt Elliott was 25 had just signed for Oxford when he turned 25. Andy Crosby was 25 when he had just signed for Chester City. Gareth McAluley, to lose the Oxford connection, was just about to embark on his big move to Lincoln City from Irish club Coleraine. To suggest a centre-back won't improve after 25 is frankly ridiculous and shown a complete lack of understanding of how player development works.
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Post by saddletramp on May 3, 2017 11:08:56 GMT
I'm sorry i really don't understand "should reach his true potential in 2/3 years time" If he was a regular starter for the next 3 years he will be 28 with 400+ games under his belt. Why does it take so long to "reach your true potential?" Michael Keane made his England debut last month,he is a year younger than Dunkley and played a lot less games. John Stones 22. I know some players develop quicker than others and it takes time to adapt to a higher standard of football,but surely you should be talking 3 Months and twenty games,rather than 3 years and 200 games. Dunkley is a good player playing at the right level,no better no worse,i cant believe we will be talking about him in 3 years time as being anything different. Just that generally speaking centre half's tend to be at their peak around late twenties early thirties. Only time will tell if this will apply to 'Dunks' - but in any case if we realise our ambitions and reach the next level come the end of next season I don't think he'll be ready to play there. I don't buy this "centre halves get better with age" Rio Ferdinand was the best footballing English centre half i have ever seen,he was outstanding in the 2002 WC at 22,he didn't make the squad for the Euros at 32. Gary Briggs a legend at Oxford,we let him go at 30. Phil Gilchrist looked a great player in the championship when he was Dunkleys age,looked a donkey not a Dunkley when he came back in his 30s.
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Post by saddletramp on May 3, 2017 11:19:04 GMT
Sorry,again i don't understand this statement ? Why would a footballer who these days gets picked up at 7 or 8,play football for 20/25 years,play 600/700 professional games,hit career heights in their early 30s? WTF have they been doing in training/matches for 12 or so years as a pro ? You say "when he irons out the naive mistakes" well he has been a pro footballer for 5 or so years,he is twenty five,why will it take another 5/6 years to iron out these mistakes ? DE and MApp in "who do we want to keep" talks, DE "Hmm not sure about Dunks?" MApp "Just you wait,give him 5 or 6 years and you will see the real Chey" DE "Ok, 7 year contract" "By the way Micky boy,what do you do in training ?" Are you being deliberately obtuse? Players improve dependent on a range of factors. This can range from the quality of coaching, the standard of the players they play with and the level of football that they play at. You mention Stones and Keane which, frankly, are two pretty silly comparisons. But, would Stones be at the level he is at now if he had stayed at Barnsley? Would Keane if he had sat on the bench at Manchester United instead of going to play mens football at Burnley? Similarly, Dunkley is now a far far better player for coming to Oxford than if he had stayed at Kidderminster. His progress would, in all likelihood, continue if he were to stay at Oxford in a progressive team. This wouldn't be the case with all players but he has the raw materials to play at a higher level and has the potential to further improve. This isn't football manager. Players don't just stop getting better at 25. When Matt Elliott was 25 had just signed for Oxford when he turned 25. Andy Crosby was 25 when he had just signed for Chester City. Gareth McAluley, to lose the Oxford connection, was just about to embark on his big move to Lincoln City from Irish club Coleraine. To suggest a centre-back won't improve after 25 is frankly ridiculous and shown a complete lack of understanding of how player development works. "Players don't just stop getting better at 25" True some get worse. We let Rambo go at 30,big mistake,he hadn't reached his peak. Phil Gilchrist great in his 20s for us,shite in his 30s. Your turn. P.S."To suggest a centre-back won't improve after 25 is frankly ridiculous and shown a complete lack of understanding of how player development works" f*ck me i didn't know we had someone out there who has a "complete understanding of how player development works" Does MApp know about you ? With your great knowledge of player development,you can point out all the shite centre halves out there that will develop into Bobby Moores in later life.
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Post by tatabanya on May 3, 2017 11:23:00 GMT
Are you being deliberately obtuse? Players improve dependent on a range of factors. This can range from the quality of coaching, the standard of the players they play with and the level of football that they play at. You mention Stones and Keane which, frankly, are two pretty silly comparisons. But, would Stones be at the level he is at now if he had stayed at Barnsley? Would Keane if he had sat on the bench at Manchester United instead of going to play mens football at Burnley? Similarly, Dunkley is now a far far better player for coming to Oxford than if he had stayed at Kidderminster. His progress would, in all likelihood, continue if he were to stay at Oxford in a progressive team. This wouldn't be the case with all players but he has the raw materials to play at a higher level and has the potential to further improve. This isn't football manager. Players don't just stop getting better at 25. When Matt Elliott was 25 had just signed for Oxford when he turned 25. Andy Crosby was 25 when he had just signed for Chester City. Gareth McAluley, to lose the Oxford connection, was just about to embark on his big move to Lincoln City from Irish club Coleraine. To suggest a centre-back won't improve after 25 is frankly ridiculous and shown a complete lack of understanding of how player development works. "Players don't just stop getting better at 25" True some get worse. We let Rambo go at 30,big mistake,he hadn't reached his peak. Phil Gilchrist great in his 20s for us,shite in his 30s. Your turn. Well yes of course, there are players who can peak at 25. But, again, to suggest that some cannot improve with age is just evidently not correct. With Gilly, he was a defender who relied on his pace. Not that surprising he was bad when he could no longer run. He did, however, play in the Premier League from the ages between 26 and 31. So not like he went on the slide from 25. The notion that defenders don't improve after 25 is just factually incorrect.
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Post by saddletramp on May 3, 2017 11:33:00 GMT
"Players don't just stop getting better at 25" True some get worse. We let Rambo go at 30,big mistake,he hadn't reached his peak. Phil Gilchrist great in his 20s for us,shite in his 30s. Your turn. Well yes of course, there are players who can peak at 25. But, again, to suggest that some cannot improve with age is just evidently not correct. With Gilly, he was a defender who relied on his pace. Not that surprising he was bad when he could no longer run. He did, however, play in the Premier League from the ages between 26 and 31. So not like he went on the slide from 25. The notion that defenders don't improve after 25 is just factually incorrect. "The notion that defenders don't improve after 25 is just factually incorrect" Bollox its your statement that is factually incorrect. That statement says that ALL defenders improve after 25,if it had said "cant improve" i would agree,but do you want to give Dunks a 5 year deal to find out ?. Tommy Caton was a rolls Royce of a centre half with Man City and Arsenal,when he came to us aged 25 he was a shadow of the player he was at 21.
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Post by tatabanya on May 3, 2017 11:50:03 GMT
Well yes of course, there are players who can peak at 25. But, again, to suggest that some cannot improve with age is just evidently not correct. With Gilly, he was a defender who relied on his pace. Not that surprising he was bad when he could no longer run. He did, however, play in the Premier League from the ages between 26 and 31. So not like he went on the slide from 25. The notion that defenders don't improve after 25 is just factually incorrect. "The notion that defenders don't improve after 25 is just factually incorrect" Bollox its your statement that is factually incorrect. That statement says that ALL defenders improve after 25,if it had said "cant improve" i would agree,but do you want to give Dunks a 5 year deal to find out ?. Tommy Caton was a rolls Royce of a centre half with Man City and Arsenal,when he came to us aged 25 he was a shadow of the player he was at 21. If I meant all, I would have said all. I actually specifically said that some players won't improve. You consistently said you don't buy the notion that he could still improve. I'm merely pointing out the mountain of evidence that suggests 25-year olds CBs can, sometimes, progress to a whole new level.
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Post by socrates on May 3, 2017 12:04:53 GMT
Dunkley has probably peaked for me. He will always be able to head it. He will be able to concentrate better. But what I doubt he will ever be able to do is sort his feet out. He's a League 2 centre-half. At best lower to mid-table League One. As we have ambitions of being neither, he is no loss. It may well be that he does actually improve. But we don't have the time for that. We need that player now, not in 2 seasons' time.
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Post by eighteen93 on May 3, 2017 12:36:11 GMT
Dunkley has probably peaked for me. He will always be able to head it. He will be able to concentrate better. But what I doubt he will ever be able to do is sort his feet out. He's a League 2 centre-half. At best lower to mid-table League One. As we have ambitions of being neither, he is no loss. It may well be that he does actually improve. But we don't have the time for that. We need that player now, not in 2 seasons' time. Norwich City have just released a decent centre half. Ryan Bennett is 27 and cost Norwich around 3m quid four or five years ago.
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Post by barmyarmy on May 3, 2017 13:14:59 GMT
How many of our fans would have Jake Wright back? How many couldnt give a flying f**k whether Dunks stays or goes?
Just over a year ago Jake Wright only got back into the team because Mullins got injured, Both were keeping Wright out of the team - just saying........
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Post by dabigfella on May 3, 2017 13:25:21 GMT
If it was for either Notts forest or Birmingham to bolster their defence in the championship, you have to ask is he good enough for the championship, I don't think so But then a lot of people thought Jake Wright wasn't good enough for League One!
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Post by socrates on May 3, 2017 13:25:42 GMT
How many of our fans would have Jake Wright back? How many couldnt give a flying f**k whether Dunks stays or goes? Just over a year ago Jake Wright only got back into the team because Mullins got injured, Both were keeping Wright out of the team - just saying........ WHy wouldn't anyone want Wright back. He's been a lynchpin of the title winners, solves our left-side problem, is a great leader and knows the club. But it's a bit arrogant to assume he would come here. He probably fancies a crack at the Championship. I do give a **** if Dunkley stays. I would be very disappointed
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Post by oxfordmitch on May 3, 2017 13:32:26 GMT
How many of our fans would have Jake Wright back? How many couldnt give a flying f**k whether Dunks stays or goes? Just over a year ago Jake Wright only got back into the team because Mullins got injured, Both were keeping Wright out of the team - just saying........ WHy wouldn't anyone want Wright back. He's been a lynchpin of the title winners, solves our left-side problem, is a great leader and knows the club. But it's a bit arrogant to assume he would come here. He probably fancies a crack at the Championship. I do give a **** if Dunkley stays. I would be very disappointed Totally agree
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Post by bigfella72 on May 3, 2017 14:01:38 GMT
Apart from Millwall the other two games were against Vale & Shrews at home! And if not for POTS Eastwood we wouldn't have had two clean sheets. Raglan was awful last game and I for one think Dunks will play at a higher level or a bigger team next season if he's gone. Nelson gets away with so much on here, not saying he's worse than dunks but makes mistakes too. League 2 is Dunks level That's your prerogative but I completely disagree and think he will prove you wrong bazzer
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Post by bigfella72 on May 3, 2017 14:09:38 GMT
"The notion that defenders don't improve after 25 is just factually incorrect" Bollox its your statement that is factually incorrect. That statement says that ALL defenders improve after 25,if it had said "cant improve" i would agree,but do you want to give Dunks a 5 year deal to find out ?. Tommy Caton was a rolls Royce of a centre half with Man City and Arsenal,when he came to us aged 25 he was a shadow of the player he was at 21. If I meant all, I would have said all. I actually specifically said that some players won't improve. You consistently said you don't buy the notion that he could still improve. I'm merely pointing out the mountain of evidence that suggests 25-year olds CBs can, sometimes, progress to a whole new level. Give up Tat, he's like dog with a bone Jake Wrights got better with age btw
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Post by fishpaste on May 3, 2017 14:57:26 GMT
Forest or Birmingham could be League 1 next season so its hardly a step up. Ha ha. Nice one.
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Post by bazzer9461 on May 3, 2017 15:05:30 GMT
That's your prerogative but I completely disagree and think he will prove you wrong bazzer Hope he does but he still gets a bit dithery when he has the ball and can't always seem to make His mind up. He seems a nice fella but I think he has to move as I don't think he would get much game time. If he proves me wrong I will hold my hand up, but as regard Jake I would have kept him .
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Post by Young Money on May 3, 2017 16:14:38 GMT
If I meant all, I would have said all. I actually specifically said that some players won't improve. You consistently said you don't buy the notion that he could still improve. I'm merely pointing out the mountain of evidence that suggests 25-year olds CBs can, sometimes, progress to a whole new level. Give up Tat, he's like dog with a bone Jake Wrights got better with age btw I think it's pretty common knowledge in football that centre backs, like goalkeepers, at least stay being good into their 'old age' and in some cases get better. Look at the likes of Bonucci at Juventus, 30 and playing as well as he's ever done. He was Dunkley's age 5 years ago! You could also say Nesta, Cannavaro... The point re Dunkley is he's 25, and at worst a squad level CB for us. If he was 30 or 35 then you'd say ok that's all he's ever going to be, but even strikers peak at what 27-28, so he may be about to have the best 2-3 seasons of his career, even ignoring the fact that CBs stay good for longer.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 17:44:42 GMT
Raglan is a better player than Dunkley. I like Dunkley and I'd be happy if he stayed but not overly bothered if he did leave. Would we be due any sort of fee by tribunal possibly??
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Post by taffyewe on May 3, 2017 18:48:59 GMT
Agree completely with Tatabanya's assessment of Dunkley. He has made huge strides in the past 18 months and so what is to say that he cannot continue to improve. You could argue that many of our squad have struggled to adapt to L1. Certainly Lunny has not dominated the midfield as he did last year.....can he improve? of course....will he? maybe! The same with Dunks, he can improve and if he continued to improve at the same rate then he could become a championship player easily.
I just wonder one thing though. Appy made a statement with a few games left that he thought that certain players minds were at other clubs (or words to that effect). Could this be one of them. He has not started since those comments.
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Post by oldabingdonian on May 3, 2017 18:51:58 GMT
Yes, I think (and I'm just guessing) that Dunkley was one. Was Johnson another?
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Post by bigronaldo on May 3, 2017 18:55:25 GMT
I think we'll regret him going. He is highly regarded elsewhere, but sadly not here according to public opinion.
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Post by berliner on May 3, 2017 19:00:23 GMT
Another theory of course, and one I incidentally prescribe to, is that Dunks hasn't hit his ceiling yet...but has with us. In football it is entirely possible that a footballer who has stagnated somewhat flourishes in different (sometimes higher) surroundings. Perhaps he thinks this too, which is why he is looking at his options.
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Post by taffyewe on May 3, 2017 19:01:26 GMT
Yes, I think (and I'm just guessing) that Dunkley was one. Was Johnson another? I would say not as he kept picking him. Gotta say I thought it was Skarz, as during that actual match Rad Ox (Jerome I think), actually made comment that Skarz mind was just not on the game and he seemed to be elsewhere.
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Post by yellowoptimist on May 3, 2017 19:57:21 GMT
It appears that the club started talking to Dunkley a few weeks ago. I can only assume that he indicated that he could well be off. If that happened then it is no surprise that MAPP tried Raglan and Nelson which certainly seemed to work in the past few games. I have really liked Dunkley. He adds something extra especially when we have free kicks/ corners, and also when the opposition has a big lump uipfront. Having said that the worry with Dunkley (and MAPP has said so much himself) is that when Dunkley makes a mistake or seems to be struggling, he tends to lose his head for a while. Personally I would like to keep Dunkley. If he gets a move to the Championship fair play to him. Probably a question of what he thinks he's worth and what the club think he's worth not being aligned. As they have demonstrated before they seem to have firm ideas on players values and won't be pushed beyond it.
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Post by itsoneofthem on May 3, 2017 20:22:28 GMT
You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to have figured this one out a few weeks back, given the clues from MApp, and Dunks omission from the team (or more obviously, Raglans inclusion - left on the sidelines for the bulk of the season, harshly imo, but then suddenly back in).
It's a shame in many respects, most notably that a young player of potential and value is able to walk rather than be sold as per the business model. I'd like to think that the club will learn from this with respect of players who's contract expires at the end of next season. Lundstram in particular comes to mind. Do our upmost to extend his contract now, but if he doesn't commit by Christmas at the latest then with regret we should cash out in January.
I often defended Dunks when he was criticised, but have to agree that his form dipped after January, and his development under MApp stalled. Maybe the club did seek his commitment to a contract which wasn't forthcoming, and the aftermath has provided the basis for performance levels.
I wonder what the outcome would've been if we hadn't have signed Aaron Martin - a disappointment through injury and no fault of his own. We probably wouldn't have released Jake Wright when Nelson became an option, and the three could've competed for the two centre back places throughout the season. Ifs and buts.
Definitely a player I'll remember fondly and wish all the best to, be if for the commitment, heading ability, Cruyft turns and jovial nature (did anyone else see him being ripped by the other subs during the half time kicks up v Port Vale?). And have we ever had another player with the same name as a US State Capital before? Ain't nobody, like Chey Dunkley...
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Post by pottersrightboot on May 3, 2017 20:46:34 GMT
I'd have kept him. I enjoy watching Dunks play. He gives his max every game. True,he had his bad games but they were pretty infrequent.
His limit is back up Championship. Wouldn't be surprised if there is an element of truth to the report.
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Post by jimmycarterxi on May 3, 2017 22:50:26 GMT
Yes, I think (and I'm just guessing) that Dunkley was one. Was Johnson another? I would say not as he kept picking him. Gotta say I thought it was Skarz, as during that actual match Rad Ox (Jerome I think), actually made comment that Skarz mind was just not on the game and he seemed to be elsewhere. To me Skarz is one player who would be focused and give everything no matter what
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Post by yellowsarmy on May 3, 2017 23:07:18 GMT
Apart from Millwall the other two games were against Vale & Shrews at home! And if not for POTS Eastwood we wouldn't have had two clean sheets. Raglan was awful last game and I for one think Dunks will play at a higher level or a bigger team next season if he's gone. Nelson gets away with so much on here, not saying he's worse than dunks but makes mistakes too. For some reason Dunkley seems to get treated hashly on here, When nelson makes a mistake or raglan miscontrols we hear much less about it from the stands and on here when he played on the left he was playing largely with an non left back in marvin who's positioning is adhoc at best. And when Nelson played that position he was equally bad if not worse defensively. I would expect Chey to be offered a contract i would also expect him to walk into any top half of league 1 side playing right side of centre back. I like nelson especially going forwards but som of the ignoring of his mistakes like when raglan an nelson tackled each other last game would be jumped on if Dunkley had done it and there is no doubt we look weaker in the air and less of a threat at corners without chey.
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Post by bicesterox on May 3, 2017 23:17:57 GMT
IF Dunks goes I wish him well. When he first got in the team he made me very nervous every time the ball went near him but last season, 2015/16, he was undoubtably the most improved player we had. Scored important goals as well. If that's the last we've seen of him my final memory will be when the players came round the pitch at the end of the game on Sunday , he was singing along to the Tony Martinez song.
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