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Post by sarge on Jan 9, 2017 14:11:56 GMT
Fsf have a working document in conjuction with SGSA ....surprise though it may be to some forum members, at a number of clubs there is a supporters liason officer, also there is supporters representation on some SGSA bodies across the country.... some clubs value Their supporters more than others do, Evidently!...... Shame that SAG and SGSA seem to,in Oxon, view Oufc and oufc supporters as the Enemy!.... Christian Blunt TVP seems to have a lot of input on both SAG and SGSA?, yet currently there is NO supporter involvement, which speaks volumes on how OUFC supporters are viewed by those in power! ...Overkill policing of the home league game v Millwall was way OTT to say the least(& WHO PAID FOR THEM?)..... guess we best all remember our place and tug forelocks accordingly then, as challenging local SAG and SGSA's slanted views on how to implement safety requirements should never have any input from the lowest form of life, the Oxford United Supporters! Therefore should we all "put up & shut up" or challenge those with "hidden agendas"?
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Post by sihath on Jan 9, 2017 14:23:38 GMT
Fsf have a working document in conjuction with SGSA ....surprise though it may be to some forum members, at a number of clubs there is a supporters liason officer, also there is supporters representation on some SGSA bodies across the country.... some clubs value Their supporters more than others do, Evidently!...... Shame that SAG and SGSA seem to,in Oxon, view Oufc and oufc supporters as the Enemy!.... Christian Blunt TVP seems to have a lot of input on both SAG and SGSA?, yet currently there is NO supporter involvement, which speaks volumes on how OUFC supporters are viewed by those in power! ...Overkill policing of the home league game v Millwall was way OTT to say the least(& WHO PAID FOR THEM?)..... guess we best all remember our place and tug forelocks accordingly then, as challenging local SAG and SGSA's slanted views on how to implement safety requirements should never have any input from the lowest form of life, the Oxford United Supporters! Therefore should we all "put up & shut up" or challenge those with "hidden agendas"?
A few items from the OxVox Meeting Minutes about this: IM talked about two safety groups, the SAG (Safety Advisory Group) and the SGSA (Sports Ground Safety Authority). Both groups are trying to get Oxford United to put a fence up at the back of the East Stand, where there is the flat elevated step (where the Ultras put their flags up). Both IM and OUFC are against such a move and want to work with supporters to make that agenda point redundant. However, running on this area or placing yourself in danger when trying to fix banners would see the club find it difficult to stop this move coming into force. IM wants, and OxVox agree, to find ways to educate supporters of these dangers and issues as opposed to blanket enforcement.
IM moved on to discuss the challenges facing the North Stand. SGSA believe OUFC have one of the worst segregations in the country, separating home and away supporters. SAG / SGSA once again, are pressuring the authorities and club to erect a fence to separate home and away supporters. Again it is worth noting that IM is trying very hard to prevent this action coming into place. He is preparing some options for the club and for the SAG / SGSA to consider.
4. The club want value for money from their stewards. Ian will be addressing this over the coming months. IM also stressed the need for better value for money from TVP.
The club are on your side Sarge. They are fighting the SAG and SGSA on many fronts. Perhaps supporting them and OxVox in their efforts to improve things rather than constantly sniping, and casting aspersions on the club and it's employees would be a good idea. You're not p*ssed off because you been caught trying to get in on a child's ticket are you?
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Post by sihath on Jan 9, 2017 14:24:51 GMT
I understand that we're all living in a completely sterile Health and Safety world these days and things that have happened in the past would not be allowed today. It's a shame that in respect of football this will undoubtedly affect the atmosphere. I'd be interested to know what other areas are contravened in the eyes of these safety groups. Are they worried that the floors in the toilets have become polished smooth and are dangerous when wet? What about the lack of hot water? It feels that there is a downer on the supporters, but a blind eye turned from the really difficult and dangerous areas. I assume you've raised this with OxVox?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 9, 2017 14:39:45 GMT
Fsf have a working document in conjuction with SGSA ....surprise though it may be to some forum members, at a number of clubs there is a supporters liason officer, also there is supporters representation on some SGSA bodies across the country.... some clubs value Their supporters more than others do, Evidently!...... Shame that SAG and SGSA seem to,in Oxon, view Oufc and oufc supporters as the Enemy!.... Christian Blunt TVP seems to have a lot of input on both SAG and SGSA?, yet currently there is NO supporter involvement, which speaks volumes on how OUFC supporters are viewed by those in power! ...Overkill policing of the home league game v Millwall was way OTT to say the least(& WHO PAID FOR THEM?)..... guess we best all remember our place and tug forelocks accordingly then, as challenging local SAG and SGSA's slanted views on how to implement safety requirements should never have any input from the lowest form of life, the Oxford United Supporters! Therefore should we all "put up & shut up" or challenge those with "hidden agendas"? We do have a fan on the sgsa, myles.
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Post by Pete Burrett on Jan 9, 2017 15:27:14 GMT
Very informative set of notes. Sad to read of previous abuse towards stewards and problems (perhaps connected with this) in recruiting more of our own.
It certainly seems, as Mr Essex has commented, that regulations are now being correctly applied after previous laxity. While this might be inconvenient, difficult to argue against the change.
Also pleasing to see that poor behaviour by some stewards has been accepted by Mr Mixter and will be addressed.
Can't help feeling a bit disappointed though. Despite the reams of print on here complaining about flags, flasks, views being blocked etc etc, there have only, at time of writing, been 1,500 views of this thread. Compare that to 2,600 views of the 'Goal Rush' thread about perceived bias against OUFC by broadcasters.
Do we, as a set of fans, really care about these issues? The notes state that the club are setting up an email link to Mr Mixter for fans to report comments about stewarding, both positive and negative. Let's hope those who have been vociferous about apparent problems use that link.
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Post by Junior on Jan 9, 2017 16:12:19 GMT
Did they go into detail about how the north stand is one of the worst for segregation in the country? The area we have is huge when compared to other teams.
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Post by makv on Jan 9, 2017 16:23:12 GMT
Did they go into detail about how the north stand is one of the worst for segregation in the country? The area we have is huge when compared to other teams. TL;DNR? That's OK - I've done it for you 😂 North Stand IM moved on to discuss the challenges facing the North Stand. SGSA believe OUFC have one of the worst segregations in the country, separating home and away supporters. SAG / SGSA once again, are pressuring the authorities and club to erect a fence to separate home and away supporters. Again it is worth noting that IM is trying very hard to prevent this action coming into place. He is preparing some options for the club and for the SAG / SGSA to consider. As a Supporters Trust, we would expect to see some significant resistance to such a move and will work with IM and OUFC to explore alternative options. We don’t want to become a football club with fencing being erected around the stadium.
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Post by sarge on Jan 9, 2017 18:02:32 GMT
Fsf have a working document in conjuction with SGSA ....surprise though it may be to some forum members, at a number of clubs there is a supporters liason officer, also there is supporters representation on some SGSA bodies across the country.... some clubs value Their supporters more than others do, Evidently!...... Shame that SAG and SGSA seem to,in Oxon, view Oufc and oufc supporters as the Enemy!.... Christian Blunt TVP seems to have a lot of input on both SAG and SGSA?, yet currently there is NO supporter involvement, which speaks volumes on how OUFC supporters are viewed by those in power! ...Overkill policing of the home league game v Millwall was way OTT to say the least(& WHO PAID FOR THEM?)..... guess we best all remember our place and tug forelocks accordingly then, as challenging local SAG and SGSA's slanted views on how to implement safety requirements should never have any input from the lowest form of life, the Oxford United Supporters! Therefore should we all "put up & shut up" or challenge those with "hidden agendas"?
A few items from the OxVox Meeting Minutes about this: IM talked about two safety groups, the SAG (Safety Advisory Group) and the SGSA (Sports Ground Safety Authority). Both groups are trying to get Oxford United to put a fence up at the back of the East Stand, where there is the flat elevated step (where the Ultras put their flags up). Both IM and OUFC are against such a move and want to work with supporters to make that agenda point redundant. However, running on this area or placing yourself in danger when trying to fix banners would see the club find it difficult to stop this move coming into force. IM wants, and OxVox agree, to find ways to educate supporters of these dangers and issues as opposed to blanket enforcement.
IM moved on to discuss the challenges facing the North Stand. SGSA believe OUFC have one of the worst segregations in the country, separating home and away supporters. SAG / SGSA once again, are pressuring the authorities and club to erect a fence to separate home and away supporters. Again it is worth noting that IM is trying very hard to prevent this action coming into place. He is preparing some options for the club and for the SAG / SGSA to consider.
4. The club want value for money from their stewards. Ian will be addressing this over the coming months. IM also stressed the need for better value for money from TVP.
The club are on your side Sarge. They are fighting the SAG and SGSA on many fronts. Perhaps supporting them and OxVox in their efforts to improve things rather than constantly sniping, and casting aspersions on the club and it's employees would be a good idea. You're not p*ssed off because you been caught trying to get in on a child's ticket are you? Bless ya Sihath , nah, I pay full price me ... £22 SSL ..... fully paid up member of Oxvox too An AGM in 2016 wouldntve gone amiss though would it, maybe a few issues couldve been discussed there? I think the club are probably 'on our side' but the problem is theyre being 'bamboozled' by what amounts to erroneus interpretation of legislation, and I can only speculate that the mis inerpretation of ground regs, and other legislation is by someone misleading those at the top at OUFC, with their own hidden agenda after all, FSF have a working document in association with a number of SGSA bodies in England and Wales, where the input of supporters( actually as members of the respective local SGSA) are welcomed and encouraged.... yet sadly at Oxford, all we get is restrictions, restrictions and more restrictions....seems the SAG, SGSA in OXON ( with certain individuals sitting on both, with of course absolutely no conflicts of interest!!!!), interpret safety requirements much differently than in other areas, if I can find the link to where fans have genuine, welcomed and encouraged input via the FSF document I'll post it here..... it is NOT a criminal offence to support Oxford United, contrary to how some members of SAG and SGSA appear to perceive things in Oxford(shire)... never have liked bullies me, those that twist legislation to suit their own beliefs are some of the worst bullies I find, hiding behind rules n regs, that are subjective and as we have found out in recent home games, open to seriously wrong interpretation
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Post by sarge on Jan 9, 2017 18:10:13 GMT
Did they go into detail about how the north stand is one of the worst for segregation in the country? The area we have is huge when compared to other teams. My memory MAY be not was it was,so I may be wrong on this, but wasnt there going back a few years , a move to instal, at no cost to Ka$$am, the 'missing' exit etc under North Stand. A number of OUFC supporting tradesmen were going to donate thier time and expertise to make it happen, however, Stadco knocked that offer back? I think it was somethingalong those lines, it would have meant a much smaller no go area,( currently patrolled by sixfingered platinum inbreds), and would have increased capacity by several hundred! think there was a thread, or it was part of a thread on Yellows Forum on the subject a few years back now ?
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Post by sarge on Jan 9, 2017 18:16:05 GMT
Fsf have a working document in conjuction with SGSA ....surprise though it may be to some forum members, at a number of clubs there is a supporters liason officer, also there is supporters representation on some SGSA bodies across the country.... some clubs value Their supporters more than others do, Evidently!...... Shame that SAG and SGSA seem to,in Oxon, view Oufc and oufc supporters as the Enemy!.... Christian Blunt TVP seems to have a lot of input on both SAG and SGSA?, yet currently there is NO supporter involvement, which speaks volumes on how OUFC supporters are viewed by those in power! ...Overkill policing of the home league game v Millwall was way OTT to say the least(& WHO PAID FOR THEM?)..... guess we best all remember our place and tug forelocks accordingly then, as challenging local SAG and SGSA's slanted views on how to implement safety requirements should never have any input from the lowest form of life, the Oxford United Supporters! Therefore should we all "put up & shut up" or challenge those with "hidden agendas"? We do have a fan on the sgsa, myles. In what capacity?..... purely as an OUFC fan, or wearing a different hat while on SGSA ? As if Myles is not on there as an OUFC fan but as a H&S professional, maybe the two are not complimentary to each other?
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Post by sarge on Jan 9, 2017 18:18:06 GMT
Very informative set of notes. Sad to read of previous abuse towards stewards and problems (perhaps connected with this) in recruiting more of our own. It certainly seems, as Mr Essex has commented, that regulations are now being correctly applied after previous laxity. While this might be inconvenient, difficult to argue against the change. Also pleasing to see that poor behaviour by some stewards has been accepted by Mr Mixter and will be addressed. Can't help feeling a bit disappointed though. Despite the reams of print on here complaining about flags, flasks, views being blocked etc etc, there have only, at time of writing, been 1,500 views of this thread. Compare that to 2,600 views of the 'Goal Rush' thread about perceived bias against OUFC by broadcasters. Do we, as a set of fans, really care about these issues? The notes state that the club are setting up an email link to Mr Mixter for fans to report comments about stewarding, both positive and negative. Let's hope those who have been vociferous about apparent problems use that link. there have been 3,4 or even more threads on this/ these subjects pete, add up the views of all of them combined and that may provide a different set of figures?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 9, 2017 18:22:55 GMT
We do have a fan on the sgsa, myles. In what capacity?..... purely as an OUFC fan, or wearing a different hat while on SGSA ? As if Myles is not on there as an OUFC fan but as a H&S professional, maybe the two are not complimentary to each other? No idea, but as he's a member on here maybe he could answer that for himself ? myles
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Post by Pete Burrett on Jan 9, 2017 18:28:20 GMT
Very informative set of notes. Sad to read of previous abuse towards stewards and problems (perhaps connected with this) in recruiting more of our own. It certainly seems, as Mr Essex has commented, that regulations are now being correctly applied after previous laxity. While this might be inconvenient, difficult to argue against the change. Also pleasing to see that poor behaviour by some stewards has been accepted by Mr Mixter and will be addressed. Can't help feeling a bit disappointed though. Despite the reams of print on here complaining about flags, flasks, views being blocked etc etc, there have only, at time of writing, been 1,500 views of this thread. Compare that to 2,600 views of the 'Goal Rush' thread about perceived bias against OUFC by broadcasters. Do we, as a set of fans, really care about these issues? The notes state that the club are setting up an email link to Mr Mixter for fans to report comments about stewarding, both positive and negative. Let's hope those who have been vociferous about apparent problems use that link. there have been 3,4 or even more threads on this/ these subjects pete, add up the views of all of them combined and that may provide a different set of figures? Yeh, I realise that sarge, but this is the only thread where the outcome of the OxVox/OUFC meeting has been published. I would have thought a lot more of the posters involved in the other threads would have commented here. A lot of people were getting quite exercised about things. Even a simple 'well done OxVox' might have been nice, or even criticism if that was thought to be needed.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 9, 2017 18:28:44 GMT
Did they go into detail about how the north stand is one of the worst for segregation in the country? The area we have is huge when compared to other teams. TL;DNR? That's OK - I've done it for you 😂 North Stand IM moved on to discuss the challenges facing the North Stand. SGSA believe OUFC have one of the worst segregations in the country, separating home and away supporters. SAG / SGSA once again, are pressuring the authorities and club to erect a fence to separate home and away supporters. Again it is worth noting that IM is trying very hard to prevent this action coming into place. He is preparing some options for the club and for the SAG / SGSA to consider. As a Supporters Trust, we would expect to see some significant resistance to such a move and will work with IM and OUFC to explore alternative options. We don’t want to become a football club with fencing being erected around the stadium. Not a very helpful post. It's one of the worst because it separates home and away supporters. Poor show.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 9, 2017 18:31:28 GMT
I have never understood that expression. What's the point in having your cake if you're not going to eat it? Yes. An expert on things that don't mean what they say (he posts on here) explained to me that 'if you eat your cake you don't have it anymore, idiot'. So you can't eat your cake and keep it (assuming you don't divide it) would make a lot more sense.
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Post by sarge on Jan 9, 2017 18:35:24 GMT
the full document, which has input from many prem, championship and FL clubs, is a pdf 12.2 mb in size, initial information regarding the INCLUSION of fans in the capacity as football fans, onto SAG and SGSA groups can be downloaded via the initial FSF news item from June 2016 , which can be found here .... www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/fans-part-of-safety-solution-says-new-reportthe full PDF is supported by SGSA - as stated on the first page of the report! ( though perhaps NOT the Oxford based SGSA it seems!)
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 9, 2017 18:35:39 GMT
I have never understood that expression. What's the point in having your cake if you're not going to eat it? Yes. An expert on things that don't mean what they say (he posts on here) explained to me that 'if you eat your cake you don't have it anymore, idiot'. So you can't eat your cake and keep it (assuming you don't divide it) would make a lot more sense. What about rat arsed ?
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Post by sarge on Jan 9, 2017 18:41:06 GMT
there have been 3,4 or even more threads on this/ these subjects pete, add up the views of all of them combined and that may provide a different set of figures? Yeh, I realise that sarge, but this is the only thread where the outcome of the OxVox/OUFC meeting has been published. I would have thought a lot more of the posters involved in the other threads would have commented here. A lot of people were getting quite exercised about things. Even a simple 'well done OxVox' might have been nice, or even criticism if that was thought to be needed. It is often a thankless task (Oxvox) the current Oxvox commitee, as well as others before, do deserve more acknowlegement of time, trouble and effort they put in on behalf of Oxvox members and all oufc supporters in general Im a member of Oxvox and probably dont give credit where credit is due to the hardworking commitee at times!
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Post by sihath on Jan 10, 2017 9:20:48 GMT
Sarge:
What are your thoughts on adults using child tickets to cheat the club out of money?
What are your thoughts on OUFC employed stewards leaving because of the behaviour of OUFC fans, and your thoughts on OUFC fans making threats towards IM and his family?
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Post by uptheus on Jan 10, 2017 10:00:35 GMT
Sarge: What are your thoughts on adults using child tickets to cheat the club out of money? What are your thoughts on OUFC employed stewards leaving because of the behaviour of OUFC fans, and your thoughts on OUFC fans making threats towards IM and his family? Haven't read the full report, but what was the actual threat to IM and his family?
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Post by sihath on Jan 10, 2017 10:05:02 GMT
Sarge: What are your thoughts on adults using child tickets to cheat the club out of money? What are your thoughts on OUFC employed stewards leaving because of the behaviour of OUFC fans, and your thoughts on OUFC fans making threats towards IM and his family? Haven't read the full report, but what was the actual threat to IM and his family? It's in the opening post on this thread: The early part of the meeting discussed Steward abuse. The abuse was wide-ranging and been subjected to the employed OUFC stewards and the Agency staff. However, Ian had personally been subjected to abuse, specifically a threat made to himself and his family after the Oldham fixture. The matter has been reported to the TVP. IM wishes to move on. This type of behaviour would not be tolerated to any member of club staff.
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Post by Junior on Jan 10, 2017 11:47:33 GMT
Has anyone spoke to a steward who left because he / she was abused?
Not saying it didn't happen but the reasons I've heard of them leaving are different to that. Notably a certain ex safety officer wanting people out the way in order to bring in agency staff at a considerable cost. Some of which are/were employed by his company. Now that might be BS and I'll apologise if proven wrong, but I'd be interested to get Neil Holdstock's take on it. As I've heard he's very much in the dark as to why he was replaced by Ian Mixter.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 10, 2017 11:51:33 GMT
Met one outside the Bird last match. Used to be in the NS away bit - said the grief and abuse he was getting was nowhere near worth it when his pay was considered.
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Post by Junior on Jan 10, 2017 12:00:40 GMT
Min wage for the majority wasn't it?
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Post by sarge on Jan 10, 2017 16:54:11 GMT
Sarge: What are your thoughts on adults using child tickets to cheat the club out of money? its not on...as was misuse of freebies given out to schools last seasonWhat are your thoughts on OUFC employed stewards leaving because of the behaviour of OUFC fans, Id be interested to hear first hand what behavior caused our own stewards to leave if that is the case and your thoughts on OUFC fans making threats towards IM and his family? again, nobody, especially not anyones family, should be subjected to threats for doing their job, its not on! apparently (ox vox meeting notes) IM has reported the threat(s) to TVP and wants to move on Missing from the Oxvox meeting minutes is ANY mention that the Club (OUFC) also wont tolerate (agency) Stewards threatening or intimidating any OUFC supporters, which I think is something the club, OUFC should have mentioned in that meeting. Otherwise cynical sceptics (such as me )will perceive that OUFC do not value their paying customers anywhere near as much as they should! while we're doing a mini Q& A Sihath, whats your thoughts on agency stewards intimidating OUFC fans? whats your thoughts on agency stewards from Sw*nd*n, being employed by OUFC, & aforementioned stewards posting inflamatory images, and comments, on social media actually during the time they are employed and paid to act as stewards by OUFC? and what are your thoughts on 2016 being the first year in a very long time that OUFC chose not to hold a shareholders AGM ?
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 10, 2017 17:38:23 GMT
Didn't they say Ian had spoken to all stewards including the agency ones about behaviour and the way they conducted themselves, and also various comments that people noted a marked difference in the friendliness at the next game. That suggests not only that the club are taking it seriously but also have acted on it already.
Not everything is a conspiracy sarge, there is a new slo appointed and Ian mixter has or is getting his own email to answer specific questions, maybe he could answer a few directly for you.
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Post by uptheus on Jan 10, 2017 18:28:15 GMT
Haven't read the full report, but what was the actual threat to IM and his family? It's in the opening post on this thread: The early part of the meeting discussed Steward abuse. The abuse was wide-ranging and been subjected to the employed OUFC stewards and the Agency staff. However, Ian had personally been subjected to abuse, specifically a threat made to himself and his family after the Oldham fixture. The matter has been reported to the TVP. IM wishes to move on. This type of behaviour would not be tolerated to any member of club staff.I meant what kind of threat?
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 10, 2017 19:19:07 GMT
Min wage for the majority wasn't it? Not sure TBH. Sorry.
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Post by Paul Cannell on Jan 10, 2017 19:21:09 GMT
Didn't they say Ian had spoken to all stewards including the agency ones about behaviour and the way they conducted themselves, and also various comments that people noted a marked difference in the friendliness at the next game. That suggests not only that the club are taking it seriously but also have acted on it already. Not everything is a conspiracy sarge, there is a new slo appointed and Ian mixter has or is getting his own email to answer specific questions, maybe he could answer a few directly for you. But in the meantime, sarge, please stop asking awkward questions on here. This is a gentrified forum that owes blind allegiance to the club. Blimey!
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Post by oufcyellows on Jan 10, 2017 19:35:00 GMT
Not about not asking questions Paul, but when ur asking questions that nobody on here can answer, isn't it better to ask them somewhere that can, and then post the answers ? If ur not asking them to the right person then they are not awkward at all are they? Not having a go at him was a serious comment, why not ask the man directly.
Nothing to do with blind allegiance, but look where rumours and hear say got us with the Ian mixter situation in the first place
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